**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* - Page 19

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Only when there is adequate sales to cover the cost of manufacturing the product. In the case of the BD stand-alones, not likely. The only other way to force price cuts without subsidizing is through competition.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I guess my post got eaten this morning. No biggie.

Several points (already made dozens of times, I am certain):

1) I have both players. I find a very interesting perspective from folks without a horse in the race. A more...reasonable...one, if I may

2) So Uni should go dual format and cede the "war" to Sony, but HD makes a power play and are lambasted for it? The hypocrisy is almost astounding, especially at tdb, where Bill has well and truly gone a bit crazy. Moneysoft??? Are we in 7th grade?

3) The first exclusive I remember being bought and paid for to win a format war. It'll sound small, but the point is germane. Sony PAID Midway to only allow Mortal Kombat III (a AAA title at the time) on the new Playstation. They did it to gain a leg up on the Sega Saturn. So spare me the moral high ground in this debate. Both sides want to win to make MONEY, like WB has on the DVD format. This war exists primarily due to greed from both parties early on.

4) The longer it goes, the cheaper the hardware will be when it's over. Maybe it'll drive down HDTV prices as well, since that is a bigger obstacle to high def home video than this format war.

Capitalism for the win. The better format will out, not based on exclusives, but based on the market. I like that. As someone who owns both players, I find that concept awesome, in fact. Each format has two exclusive studios, so it's "fair".

As for Bay not directing TF2 (which he already rescinded), who gives a shit

I love this quote, and use it often:
It's not show friends, it's show BUSINESS.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

For the same reason people think HD DVD is only Toshiba. Fact is thought, Sony and Toshiba are the biggest supporters of their own format. Sony requires BD to succeed for the future. If they lose this war, the consequences would be huge. Panasonic and Pioneer would lose virtually nothing if BD fails. It would only be a blip in their financials.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Well said! I've read a lot of posts from BR fans saying that HD shouldn't focus so much on low hardware prices, but suddenly some of them can't afford to get an HD player.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

it is truly amazing. Before I criticized him for unfair and biased slanting- but these last two days of editorials come across a seriously unhinged. the tone honestly sounds like something a 14 year old gamer would write.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I have been saying that for months about all of the exclusive studios. No reason to single out Paramount, btter to point to the sucess that Warner has had being a dual format supporter. The bottom line is that all exclusive studios are losing profits and losing customers.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

More like a baby actually.

Re: The Godfather restored.

And Spielberg is behind the restoration! No HD DVD for us!

Re: The Godfather restored.

Paramount owns these films lock stock and barrel. I don't think Spielberg has much to say about how they are released.

Doug

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

It's very strange indeed.

At the same time, Ronald Epstein's new editorial, on the forums page, is balanced, calm and fair.


Cees

Re: The Godfather restored.

Any further discussion speculating about Spielberg/HD DVD will cause this thread to be closed.

Re: The Godfather restored.

It was a joke.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Great post, Chuck!

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Agreed.

What's sad to me, however, is that we can make statements like "it's all about the movies" until our faces turn blue, but the truth is that there is nobody at the corporate side of any movie studio that actually feels the same way. They care as much about movies as I do about 12th century Madagascar history.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Forgive my newbieness--where is this exactly? If it's right on the front page I keep missing it.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Who here honestly believes that we would've been better off with two competing DVD formats instead of having one unified format? I'm sorry I just don't buy into this, dual-format sucks and the only reason it's here is because of corporate politics.

Initially even before DiVX there were two competing DVD specs one from Sony/Philips, the other from a group of Toshiba/Matsushita, etc. Eventually they were pursuaded to accept a single unified platform, which became the DVD spec.

This is not show business. This is taking a product and alienating/confusing the mass market, probably now to the point where they're indifferent. Again I ask when has the mass market *ever* voted to support two competing formats released at the same time at once?

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I don't have a problem with the format war ending. What I DO have a problem with is trying to end it using the very corporate politics you decry, instead of allowing the best format to win via competition.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Well maybe the studios/electronic manufacturers can do this -- while they're having their little pissing match about their future dreams of a living room utopia, maybe they'll reimburse the people who have spent hundreds of dollars on which ever format doesn't end up winning this battle for their egos.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I think that so far the format war has been VERY good for consumers. I see no reason to think that it won't continue to be.

Doug

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Pete, I honestly believe I'm better off due to the format war.

I've paid a total of $1000 for the capability of playing all software- except that I paid it off piecemeal- $500 last year and $500 this year (or rather, $500 spread over the next 18 months).

Had there not been a format war, Prices would probably still be over $800 and I might not have been tempted...yet.

I've been enjoying some great presentations at a relative bargain basement price the last year +. I see nothing ahead that alters that landscape. There is good stuff coming out on both formats- but I'm glad I have both now so that there is absolutely no angst over what I can or can't play (well...at least in terms of the main features. I'm sure there will be some special BdJ features I won't be able to partake in in the future...but that is the price of early adoption.)

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Coming from a guy who spent $400 on two players of lower quality when he could have spent that on one player that was higher quality ... again sorry, I think you got shafted.

If there was one format that was going to be the clear winner, you could have spent your money on that side, or at least spent the same amount on the player and had $200 extra left over to buy movies with.

You should not have to compromise your spending dollars on two seperate players just to be able to play the movies you want. You didn't have to with DVD, and all these studios/electronic companies made a fortune off those, so it's not like that's an economic model that isn't highly lucrative.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I put "acceptable" in quotes for a reason. The reason being it is entirely subjective.

However, a lot of people seem to view dual format players as some sort of "instant solution" to this format war. It won't be, in my opinion, until dual format players achieve the same mass-market pricing HD DVD players are aiming for.

That being said, I'm not so sure spending a $1K on a dual format player that isn't, to my knowledge, even BD Profile 1.1 compliant is a good use of money, but to each his own.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

June of last year, I bought my first HD DVD and BRD players at the same time for $1500. Later this year, I will buy a combo-player for about $1000 with many more features than those first generation players. Yes, I think format competition has helped reduced the price of hardware. Could competition among the same hardware providers with just one common format produce the same type of price reduction? Maybe then maybe not, it's really nothing more than speculation at this time, but I don't think the prices would've of dropped this soon based on my previous experiences with the dvd format.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I think the Playstation 3 already ensured lower prices for the Blu-Ray side anyway. They would have dropped a lot quicker than the DVD format did.

There's jut no way Sony/Panasonic/Samsung/LG/etc. all could have sold standalone players for $700-$1000 for any extended period of time with the PS3 sitting there at $499.99 and getting cheaper year by year due to the natural competetion in the video game market. You would run out of people willing to pay that kind of premium very, very quickly. Especailly the vendors outside of Sony, I mean who would buy their model for $800 when you could get one that plays high-end games on top of that with internet capability for hundreds of dollars less? Once you sell through to that initial early adopter base, sales would be very hard to come by, which would force price drops.

All it would've taken would have been for one of them to drop, and then others would drop too. There still is competetion within formats, we've seen that with the DVD format. When one vendor cuts their prices, others follow suit.

Seriously how many BR players do you think say Samsung would sell at $900 before they would say "screw this, we're dropping our price"?

Because now instead of having to wait for Blu-Ray to come down lower in price (if Universal had gone neutral), now a lot of people are stuck waiting for combo players to drop in price ... which is going to take longer.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

How you spend your money is your own business so please don't past judgement on me spending mine. Also, I'm still waiting on the final specifications for that player to be released, but interactive stuff doesn't really concern me as it does some others.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Am I correct in reading many of the comments to this thread to mean "I" when someone refers to "we" and "they" in terms of "consumers"?

Or is there a poll somwhere that one can draw conclusions from about the consensus of U.S. opinion on the subject at hand?

The key to everything, IMO, is for the U.S. to convert to uniform HDTV broadcasting. Once folks are forced to buy the HDTVs...and I'm talking in the range of 50-million to 100-million sets...maybe the issue of what format survives will ultimately be determined.

And I'm guessing/betting a lot of it will be based on the biggest bang for the least amount of money.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

It's a big sign on the Forum Index page. Our Stand on the Format War by Ron Epstein.


Cees

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Who says they were of lower quality? They were the players that were available at the time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my Toshiba. It is one best upconverting DVD players out there and I have never had a problem with it. My Samsung has a problem because it was not designed with BDJ in mind, mainly because the Blu-ray specs weren't complete when the player was released. Other than that there is nothing at all wrong with it and it is a high quality piece of equipment.

Doug

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Well if that's your take on it. I wouldn't be happy about it, but that's just me.

Also can you point out where you got both a HD-DVD player and a Blu-Ray player for $400 total? Because I've never seen that anywhere.

For average people, to get a brand new decent HD-DVD player and a Blu-Ray on top of that is going to run them $700-$1000 easy.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Well that actually happens in a few years. However its really already starting to happen. If you goto a wal-mart you'll see that they sell far more HDTVs than they do standard TVs.'

Doug