**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* - Page 120

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p.

Even if it is true, the recently announced Sony 2.0 players are said to be priced at $400 and $500.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Circuit City getting rid of HD DVD by the end of the month.


Circuit City discounts HD DVD for quick inventory*sell-off - 3/3/2008 - Video Business

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

True, but the Panasonic will be out sooner, and while the PS3 is a great machine, I have been a lot more impressed by Panasonics standalone players over Sony's (BD10 v S300)

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Panny will probably introduce the BD50 at a premium, but then drop the price over the next few months.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p.

Ah, Thomas, you´re back. Optimistic as always.

We also have to remember that Sony IS evil. It might do some evil things.
( )

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p.

About the Toshiba one...

One very smart quote:
**"One has to take calculated risks in business, but it's also important to switch gears immediately if you think your decision was wrong. We were doing this to win, and if we weren't going to win then we had to pull out, especially since consumers were already asking for a single standard."**

Now that´s what many of us have been saying in the past. This is (was) business for ALL of these companies. There are no emotional attachments. Or very little, at least.

..and one very silly quote:
**"If you watch standard DVDs on our players, the images are of very high quality because they include an "upconverting" feature. And we're going to improve this even more, so that consumers won't be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images."**

Oh boy. I can already see it: UPCONVERTED DVD: "The Look and sound almost as perfect as HD DVD was".

Perhaps you can "improve" the upconverting, but at the end of the day it´ll still be that SD DVD image. You can´t add resolution etc to it.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Let's suppose the (impossible) goal of attaining true HD image resolution through military-grade upconversion was possible and affordable.

That still wouldn't remove the edge-ringing and compression noise from MPEG2 SD DVDs compressed at under 10 mbps.

One thing that I've noticed with high-bit-rate HD media like BD is what it's like to see images that are competely free from compression artifacts and (for the most part) edge-ringing. It's ironic: I've learned more about DVD image quality from watching HD discs than from all my years reviewing SD DVDs. Seeing night-scenes with no MPEG noise in the dark areas let's dimly-filmed movies/scenes come alive like real cinema with the MPEG nasties of DVD. Very, very few DVDs present optimal images even given SD DVD's theortetical potential due to poor mastering practices and a desire to cram as much on 8GB DVDs as they can fit. No "upconversion" can take a ringy, over-compressed DVD and turn it into a transparently-compressed halo-free image, even if Toshiba *was* able to do the impossible and upscale 480 to 1080 with true-1080 results.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

It won't drop by much if it comes out at $600, at least not until the holiday season which will be six months after it's launch. Like I said, I'm going to buy this unit regardless of price because I like how my BD-30 has performed.

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"Lossless audio" is something that´s obviously great to have, but for many it´s kinda the "last step" when building that new, HD-based HT.

1) HDTV-set/projector/etc
2) HD-player (e.g. PS3)
= Now you can already enjoy HD-films, since e.g. the 1.5 Mbps "core" is pretty good already and not all titles have lossless-track in the first place.

3) New HDMI-receiver. This often comes a bit late in the game and e.g. I don´t have a proper HDMI-receiver at the moment. Planning to get one, and it´ll be HDMI 1.3.

My point is, that the lack of analog-out is not a deal breaker for many. Actually it´s basically the only real "omission" of PS3 and you gain a whole lot of features in return (starting from profile 1.1 and most likely also 2.0).

Don´t get me wrong, I wish that Sony would´ve included analog-out and all that - just that it´s not that major issue for many (sure, for some it´s). HDMI will be the future connection.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

While multi-channel analog is a nice work-around for those without HDMI, it's not the last word in transparency as many receivers then perform another A/D conversion for DSP like bass management, and even without that step, you're stuck with the sound quality of the A/D converter in the player which is probably not as good as the processor you spent good money on.

What I did temporarily before I got my HDMI 1.3 Marantz receiver was to run lossless in 2.0 PCM mode over SPDIF. I lost some discrete surround information, but Dolby ProLogic II from lossless PCM over SPDIF *totally* blew lossy Dolby out of the water (640 kbps Dolby) in terms of shere fidelity (and confirmed what my ears had always been telling me since the days we said good-bye to laserdisc: that ProLogic from lossless PCM sounds better than 5.1 lossy Dolby 99% of the time...). Of course, discrete lossless 5.1/7.1 is even better, so going analog multi-channel may sound superior for those who have that option if the DACs in their player are good.

The other advantage (besides improved fidelity) of finally upgrading to an HDMI receiver is that now I have ONE cable running to my recevier from my BD player and the receiver acts as a switch-box for all video... with ONE HDMI cable running to the projetor. The beauty is that the Marantz even transcodes analog video signals to digital HDMI internally, so even when watching S-video laserdisc or cable over component video I can still use the single HDMI run to the projector as my video connection. Sweet. Also, for those with more than one HDMI source (like juggling a BD player, HD DVD player, DVD upconverter, or HDMI satelite or cable box), the receiver acts as an HDMI switch box and toggles audio and video seamlessly in one fell swoop. This makes it MUCH easier for the S.O. to watch something... they just hit "DVD" on the receiver remote to watch and listen to a DVD and never have to change inputs on the display.

Bottom line is that upgrading to an HDMI receiver is a good thing...

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p.

I agree. It just seems that the Panasonic would need to be priced competitively.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Maybe they will change it to something like SD-DVD " The look and sound of simulated perfection".

But all kidding aside I want to thank Toshiba for doing the right thing and not dragging this format war out longer than it had to. I might even buy another Toshiba TV if they have a model that has a really good picture and a good price vs what ever else is in the store at the time.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Ohhhhh....I totally agree and quite frankly is the only reason I held onto my LD player and certain Laserdiscs.
And the "bottom line" is that there is a bottom line on what I consider reasonable expenditures on HT equipment.....which loosly translates to what my SO is also willing to spend.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p.

I ended up having to get a new receiver (Onkyo 604) to get the most out of HD DVD and Blu even with analog outputs available to me. I never knew how many entry level and mid-range receivers have non-existent bass management until I started researching why I was getting such poor bass. Before I switched to the Onkyo, I was getting next to no LFE on any of my HD DVDs, as the HD-A1 had no bass management, nor did my receiver. I would have no desire to get a standalone BD player, if only Sony would quit caving into CE politics and just add DTS-MA decoding to the PS3 instead of allowing the other CEs to make use of it first. At $599 for the BD50, I'll just have to be more patient and live with the previous-gen core. Thankfully Fox doesn't have much of interest for me through spring in terms of new and old releases.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

I agree. The great ones (Cars, Pirates 2, The Prestige) are amazing. It's like the video compression is lossless. I just hope that this standard is maintained.

-Reagan

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

I think it's only going to get better.

Warner has some of the best standards in place for transfers and restorations.

Disney and Sony have some of the best standards in place for compression and authoring.

I think that now that all the studios are focusing on HD media together in concert, we might start to see some sharing of these strengths. We've already heard that Warner has plans to go with higher-bit-rate video compression and lossless audio on future releases, so I'm optimistic.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Trippy. Did not expect this.

Shhh! Circuit City Trading HD DVD Players for Blu-ray | High-Def Digest

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

I'd be more impressed if they would accept HD DVD returns for titles that have Blu-ray version of the titles. Doubt that's gonna happen.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Interesting CC news, but I have to imagine very few people will actually qualify and they probably know that.

I would imagine few still have everything needed to qualify -- receipt, box (with the UPC intact), styrofoam, and all accessories, etc. Sure some will, but most won't. I would guess the first casualty of most purchases was the UPC off the box.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

part of the problem is that folks could buy heavily discounted HD DVD software and then trun around and trade it in for full-price BD versions. And since no one really saves their receipts long-term when they buy movies, folks who really bought their HD DVDs prior to Toshiba's closure wouldn't be able to prove that really paid full price.

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Perhaps retailers should put a "cut out" mark on the case, like they used to do with old records/CD's that were marked for clearance. Then they could identify the clearance titles from the older, full-price purchases.

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But Circuit City does offer receipt lookup via phone number or credit card, so it's possible, but still unlikely.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Looks like some studios will be double dipping and putting BD live features on previously released titles:
Here Comes the Reaming: Blu-ray Movie Rereleases Coming with BD-Live

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p.

Here is an article that should send shivers down the spine of all those (like me) hoping for Hi-Def packaged media to catch up with the masses hopefully driving down the current inflated price of Blu-Ray players and Discs.

A $299 Sony Blu-ray Player, but No Cheap Chinese Models

"He talked of a slow steady decline in the prices of Blu-ray players, which Sony now sells for $399 and up. He said that prices will fall to $299 for this Christmas and may be under $200 by the end of 2009"

As expected . Now that Sony 'won' they are now going to try to 'milk' the public (losers) for as long as possible, but what else is new?

"Mr. Glasgow also said that he didn’t see the market for Blu-ray undercut by movie downloads in the next few years. Given the speed of most home Internet connections in the United States, downloading a movie still takes hours, he said... "

He forgot to take into account Hi-DEF PVRs (supplied free by SAT and Cable Co.), by the time Blu ray players are affordable everyone with a Hi-DEF set will be recording and storing (on cheap cascading HDD) Hi-DEF movies and shows off SAT and Cable, no need to invest in expensive HD packaged media.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Not surprising given how much double dipping went on with DVD. However, I doubt the audio and video will be improved on these releases.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

You may not be aware, but there are MANY manufacturers making BD hardware other than Sony. And they all set their own prices according to what is needed to generate profits to recoup R&D costs given what the market will bear.

Just because Toshiba was willing to forgo the conventional pricing-model (and forgo hardware profits along with it) doesn't mean that this is a sustainable practice for vendors who aren't earning software royalites to offset their hardware costs.

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*

Yea, well good luck with that FOX. I didnt like AVP enough to buy it cheap on DVD, much less the $30 or so FOX asks for it on the current Blu-ray. How much do you think the double dip will cost? $40, because it has so much cool stuff now? Now if they said they made the movie better...we might be talkin!
I doubt i could ever use a 2.0 Blu-ray player, cause i dont have internet, or a phone jack for that matter in my movie room...am i right?

Re: **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p.

In fact, one could argue that the fire-sale type of hardware pricing that Toshiba engaged in helped to scare off other manufacturers from making HD-DVD players and played a part in their exit from the HDM race.

Software prices are another issue