Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*
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**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* - Page 12

post #331 of 3878
8/20/07 at 8:43pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
And how exactly does a format-neutral studio going exclusive with one format get us closer?

I thought that I supported that viewpoint in my message, but I ended up getting long-winded, and I may have lost you before you reached my supporting argument.

Leveling out the playing field should make everyone take stock of whether they can win this war by choosing one side over the other. If they realize that they are best served by producing discs in each format, the only thing they have to worry about is the cost of doing so.

The total cost is low because volumes are low. In the future, perhaps one of the two formats will have to be chosen unless the production costs decrease to the point where the difference/sum is insignificant, even when approaching DVD volumes.

I want Universal and Paramount and Dreamworks to be neutral, just the same as I want Sony, Disney, and Fox to be neutral. If that happens we all win!

Then, we can get back to arguing about bitrates, compression artifacts, lossless sound decoding in players vs. receivers, and other things related to enjoying the movie instead of debating the format in such a bitter way that some people have.
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post #332 of 3878
8/20/07 at 8:44pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_B
You don't get how newspapers work, do you? The source is not anonymous to the reporter, he is only anonymous to the reader.

Thanks for making my point.
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post #333 of 3878
8/20/07 at 8:49pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieW
Thanks for making my point.

I don't get it.
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post #334 of 3878
8/20/07 at 8:52pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieW
Really?

Is that so?

Perhaps you should READ the article again, because it clearly doesn't claim Paramount admitted to anything - and if they had, so what? Quoting an anonymous source is NOT clarification from Paramount. If Paramount or any under HD-DVD backer offered such assistance, what would be the harm in their admitting it? Afterall, They aren't doing anything illegal!?!

IF it turns out to be true (which isn't an impossibility), I could care less.

The bottom line: Paramount/Dreamworks have dumped BD. Some people seem to have a difficult time coping with this reality, incentives or not.

Really.

It's so.

I've read it. I'll read it again. They're saying there were rewarded with undisclosed financial incentives. Read it anyway you want, I'll take it as meaning they were given money to pick HD-DVD. Why are you so afraid of that being true and getting yourself in a swivet? Newspapers quote anonymous sources all the time, doesn't make them untrue. Imagine all those articles about politics you wouldn't have with out "administration sources" for example. Does that make them all false? I haven't denied reality once; you're the one who finds it deeply frightening that Paramount et. al. received money for going HD-DVD. I wasn't condemning them, just making the point. As I said in my other post, in my opinion it makes no sense to say, "well we were paid money to do it so we did it." It just doesn't sound good. Especially if they got money to pick sides, why not put down the opposing camp of who just paid you by saying how great HD-DVD is? Makes Toshiba and their friends happy. Purely hypothetical, just suggesting.
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post #335 of 3878
8/20/07 at 8:57pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieW
I would like a link where a Paramount exec LITERALLY said they received a mulit-million dollar payout to go HD-DVD exclusive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wall Street Journal
The clincher "was not the incentives from [the HD DVD representatives] so much as the fact that they're doing their job in making this platform highly appealing and extremely affordable," says Jeffrey Katzenberg, chief executive of DreamWorks.

I read that part of the article as Katzenberg saying "yes we got incentives, but they were'nt the main reason for us deciding to dump BD". It's not him coming out and saying "yeah we got X millions of dollars to go HD-DVD exlcusive but he is saying they received incentives.
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post #336 of 3878
8/20/07 at 9:04pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris S
Any guesses as to what that might entail? You've mentioned a couple of times that there is likely something else behind the scenes but I really cannot think of anything else that would make a studio halt a title that has clearly already seen production.

Well for one thing I think that you will have HD DVD players in the stores for around $150 by November. I suspect there may be some other equipment announcements before the holidays.

Then there is the fact that Warner and Microsoft were very cozy at ComicCon. In fact Microsoft's booth had the Warner logo all over it. Makes me wonder about Warner's tepid support of blu-ray.

Also Bill Hunt's last statement on his website seemed to be very cryptic. Suggesting that there are more announcements to come. And he didn't seem to be too happy about it.

I really think that the HD DVD group went to Paramount with it's game plan for the next year and sold them on it. Maybe Warner Bros. is next.

All purely speculation on my part of course.

Doug
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post #337 of 3878
8/20/07 at 9:09pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

All of that would make for some VERY interesting developments. After finally reading Bill Hunt's latest post I would have to agree with you that there may be something still out there. Appreciate the clarification!
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post #338 of 3878
8/20/07 at 9:11pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

If Warner announces they are ditching BD I'm seriously thinking of selling my PS3 and ~30 BD titles, and I WON'T be buying HD-DVD. I'll simply go back to DVD where everything is calm and I know it'll be around for the next 10 years.
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post #339 of 3878
8/20/07 at 9:15pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
If Warner announces they are ditching BD I'm seriously thinking of selling my PS3 and ~30 BD titles, and I WON'T be buying HD-DVD. I'll simply go back to DVD where everything is calm and I know it'll be around for the next 10 years.

Well I have both formats so I'm not very worried about it. I just find the whole thing very interesting. HD DVD is starting to seem like the little format that could. Everyone said it would amount to nothing....it was down for the count....It couldn't match the vast superiority of Blu-ray. But it just keeps coming back, meeting the challenges and exceeding everyone's expectations.

Doug
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post #340 of 3878
8/20/07 at 9:17pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Which is all fine and dandy - when it doesn't cost me another $200.00 dollars to watch it.

Thank God this is my hobby and not classic cars....
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post #341 of 3878
8/20/07 at 9:23pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
Which is all fine and dandy - when it doesn't cost me another $200.00 dollars to watch it.

Thank God this is my hobby and not classic cars....


Ooooooh I so wish that I could afford to add classic cars to my list of hobbies.

Doug
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post #342 of 3878
8/20/07 at 9:31pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Doug,

Try Corvairs--getting quite rare and still not stratospherically expensive-fun to drive too.
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post #343 of 3878
8/20/07 at 9:36pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schaffer
Doug,

Try Corvairs--getting quite rare and still not stratospherically expensive-fun to drive too.

Yeah they are cool. I'm really more into late 30s and early 40s vehicles. I've also seen a 1954 Ford sedan driving around my town all decked out as a police car! So cool.

Oh and I'd love to have a 1963 Cadillac El Dorado. My dad had one and I've always love that car.

Doug
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post #344 of 3878
8/20/07 at 9:54pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Well for one thing I think that you will have HD DVD players in the stores for around $150 by November. I suspect there may be some other equipment announcements before the holidays.

Then there is the fact that Warner and Microsoft were very cozy at ComicCon. In fact Microsoft's booth had the Warner logo all over it. Makes me wonder about Warner's tepid support of blu-ray.

Also Bill Hunt's last statement on his website seemed to be very cryptic. Suggesting that there are more announcements to come. And he didn't seem to be too happy about it.

I really think that the HD DVD group went to Paramount with it's game plan for the next year and sold them on it. Maybe Warner Bros. is next.

All purely speculation on my part of course.

Doug

Doug, i think your right. Just a gut feeling. Thats my big fear of buying Blade Runner and the Kubrick Collection on BD...what if...i CANT!
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post #345 of 3878
8/20/07 at 10:07pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
Doug, i think your right. Just a gut feeling. Thats my big fear of buying Blade Runner and the Kubrick Collection on BD...what if...i CANT!

Yeah that though had crossed my mind too. I actually have both formats and was planning to get them on HD DVD anyway but it would be a real bummer for folks who just have blu-ray. I suspect that with as much publicity about those titles though I doubt they will pull the rug out from under blu-ray on those.

Of course if you had asked me yesterday if I thought a neutral studio would go HD DVD exclusive, I would have guessed no.

Doug
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post #346 of 3878
8/20/07 at 10:18pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I still feel this is all about the codec. He who controls the codec controls the universe. What does MS benefit if BR takes off and movie makers can choose between VC-1 and Sony's format? Better they use HD-DVD and can really only use VC-1 in the eyes of MS. If they get $1 per copy they'll get their money back soon and then be rolling in it a few years from now.
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post #347 of 3878
8/20/07 at 10:25pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Leigh
I still feel this is all about the codec. He who controls the codec controls the universe. What does MS benefit if BR takes off and movie makers can choose between VC-1 and Sony's format? Better they use HD-DVD and can really only use VC-1 in the eyes of MS. If they get $1 per copy they'll get their money back soon and then be rolling in it a few years from now.

That theory would work only if HD DVD only supported the VC1 format. In fact HD DVD can use MPG2, MPG4(AVC) and VC1. These are the exact same codecs that Blu-ray supports.

Doug
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post #348 of 3878
8/20/07 at 10:26pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

For all of you who are hating big time on Microsoft following some assumptions......lets discuss this.



I dont' think that Microsft realistically believes that they can kill physical media. I know they've had people state that digital distribution is the future, but honestly, you, as well as I, and ESPECIALLY Microsoft know that consumer hard drive space is way the heck off to be able to compete with the sort of data that our entire physical media collections posess.

I think that the whole rental area definately has room to take off, digital cable and satellite are all over that as well.

The Xbox 360 has a maximum hard drive space of 120 gigs. At best that could hold 8-10 games plus space for other media. It's my belief that Microsoft would rather have Toshiba stick aroudn with HD-DVD to put it in the next gen Xbox instead of a SONY drive. When you think of all the money involved, its sort of like Microsoft buying stock in Toshiba. Sony would never share with Microsoft, but you can bet that HD-DVD's victory would have BIG returns for Microsoft. So Microsoft supporting HD-DVD, means more money than Microsft supporting Blu-Ray.

About the assumptions that Microft is subsudizing Toshiba's players; There's no proof of that, it's just assumed. Maybe they're selling AT cost, we dont' really know. The Playstation 3 has ALWAYS been selling under cost, but nobody points fingers there. THe Xbox 360 is just now finally breaking even on per console sales.

As Bill Hunt has suggested, it's passable for Sony to pump out the dough but not Microsoft, just because it's not Microsofts baby. Seriously, what's the difference? It's not like Microsft BOUGHT OUT Paramount like Sony did to Columbia/Tri-Star.

Neither one comes out the golden baby here.
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post #349 of 3878
8/20/07 at 10:30pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Averry
I think that the whole rental area definately has room to take off, digital cable and satellite are all over that as well.

I have to agree with this. I think Microsoft is more interested in taking over the rental business than killing optical media.

Doug
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post #350 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:00pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Schatz
Really.

It's so.

I've read it. I'll read it again. They're saying there were rewarded with undisclosed financial incentives. Read it anyway you want, I'll take it as meaning they were given money to pick HD-DVD. Why are you so afraid of that being true and getting yourself in a swivet? Newspapers quote anonymous sources all the time, doesn't make them untrue. Imagine all those articles about politics you wouldn't have with out "administration sources" for example. Does that make them all false? I haven't denied reality once; you're the one who finds it deeply frightening that Paramount et. al. received money for going HD-DVD. I wasn't condemning them, just making the point. As I said in my other post, in my opinion it makes no sense to say, "well we were paid money to do it so we did it." It just doesn't sound good. Especially if they got money to pick sides, why not put down the opposing camp of who just paid you by saying how great HD-DVD is? Makes Toshiba and their friends happy. Purely hypothetical, just suggesting.

Ed, It's really good to know you're an EXPERT in how people feel. "Frightened" is an awfully liberal term to use since in this instance I'm solely an HD-DVD supporter at this time. Gee, Paramount actually went with the "inferior" format which was being outsold 2 to 1-- so the narrative goes - perhaps this notion frightens you? This argument cuts both ways.

You're right though. It doesn't make news stories untrue, nor does it make them factual. This may OR may not be the case, but I've just seen this notion of a Paramount "payoff" spread like gospel. There are likely many complex reasons unknown to us why this switch occured. I do agree that it's all certainly hypthetical.
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post #351 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:05pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieW
The bottom line: Paramount/Dreamworks have dumped BD. Some people seem to have a difficult time coping with this reality, incentives or not.

And Fox is back. And the "format war" is in high speed. And this and that. Your tone is like straight from the AVSforum.

I´m sure we can speculate the reasons behind this decision Reggie, whether you like it or not. Do you really believe that just one morning Paramount executives woke up and thought: "Guys, let´s support HD DVD, since it´s so much "better". It has less capacity, but those wonderful interactive extras. And boys! We can also use VC-1 now in every release!".

Someone made the offer, millions of $ were involved and that´s that. Paramount was "neutral", getting money from BOTH sides. They didn´t drop Blu-ray just because "HD DVD is better". Believing so is pretty naive.

But yes, we have to deal with this and I hope that we keep it friendly here in the forums. In the end, it´s still about the films. I have stated this already, but if this "format war" drags on all the way through the 2008, I´ll go "neutral" myself. And since this is clearly happening..

Is this posted? "Blu-ray Supporting Companies Respond to Paramount HD DVD Announcement": http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...nouncement/877
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post #352 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:05pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReggieW
Ed, It's really good to know you're an EXPERT in how people feel....

However, I do agree that it's certainly hypthetical.

It was an interpretation of your language and typing style. I never suggested I was an expert. Then again, you haven't said I was wrong....
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post #353 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:12pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
I don't think many people at Paramount knew this was coming. Studio production doesn't stop on a dime. Make no mistake, those Blades of Glory's have been made, QC'd, and there have been some reports that shipments had already gone out to retailers..

Good point. My friend pre-ordered the film since he´s a huge fan of Farrell (don´t see why.. ) and is now quite confused. This wasn´t a "long time plan" from Paramount.
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post #354 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:13pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I think we can all agree....


Format wars never seem to come down to "what's better."


That's just dreaming, and far to simple.
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post #355 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:23pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim-J
Indiana Jones to be available in both BD & HD-DVD???

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33722

Spielberg-issue was already in the first press release...

"Paramount Home Entertainment will issue new releases day and date as well as catalog titles exclusively on HD DVD. ***Today's announcement does not include films directed by Steven Spielberg as his films are not exclusive to either format.***"
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post #356 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:24pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
And Fox is back. And the "format war" is in high speed. And this and that. Your tone is like straight from the AVSforum.

I´m sure we can speculate the reasons behind this decision Reggie, whether you like it or not. Do you really believe that just one morning Paramount executives woke up and thought: "Guys, let´s support HD DVD, since it´s so much "better". It has less capacity, but those wonderful interactive extras. And boys! We can also use VC-1 now in every release!".

Someone made the offer, millions of $ were involved and that´s that. Paramount was "neutral", getting money from BOTH sides. They didn´t drop Blu-ray just because "HD DVD is better". Believing so is pretty naive.

But yes, we have to deal with this and I hope that we keep it friendly here in the forums. In the end, it´s still about the films. I have stated this already, but if this "format war" drags on all the way through the 2008, I´ll go "neutral" myself. And since this is clearly happening..

Is this posted? "Blu-ray Supporting Companies Respond to Paramount HD DVD Announcement": http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...nouncement/877

Fair enough.

I agree that's it definitely all speculation.

Let's just keep that in mind.
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post #357 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:28pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Averry
I think we can all agree....


Format wars never seem to come down to "what's better."


That's just dreaming, and far to simple.

This is true. It´s now pretty clear that at least the customer won´t "win" in this war.. "Buy two players and be happy!" is not exactly something that can sell the whole HD-concept.. People stick to DVD.

I still sometimes dream that there would´ve been "one format" from day one. Best qualities from both HD DVD and Blu-ray. That would´ve been sweet. "But now the dream is over... and the insect is awake.".. Back to reality..
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post #358 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:29pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Just out of curiousity, has anyone ever discussed what "incentives" Blu-ray has paid to Fox and MGM and Lionsgate, etc., for exclusivity to Blu-ray?
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post #359 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:35pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
Is this posted? "Blu-ray Supporting Companies Respond to Paramount HD DVD Announcement": (Blu-ray_Supporting_Companies_Respond_to_Paramount_HD_D VD_Announcement)

Talk about your non-event...Blu-ray exclusive companies announcing they are Blu-ray exclusive companies.

And didja get a load of those 29 titles they've announced?

Y-a-w-n!
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post #360 of 3878
8/20/07 at 11:40pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
That theory would work only if HD DVD only supported the VC1 format. In fact HD DVD can use MPG2, MPG4(AVC) and VC1. These are the exact same codecs that Blu-ray supports.

Doug

I actually didn't know that AVC was in the cards for HD-DVD. To my knowledge then there has never been an AVC encode on HD-DVD but I may be wrong. MPG2 is probably never going to be used in the future on the format in any sort of scale for anyone to worry about.

I still see HD-DVD = VC1 and BR = AVC as I'm sure there are incentives on both sides financially to use the encoders. Once to pendulum swings too far either way and one format or the other goes down I can see the codec going down with it.

I certainly don't think this has anything to do with Live! and digital downloads. End of the day that is a massive war to fight on its own and still requires some kind of box to hook up to a TV that is not yet available for purchase. The 360, while a great multimedia device is a hard sell to people not interested in video games so that sure isn't a mass market gateway.

DDs will happen, it'll just take many many years.
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Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*