**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* - Page 80

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I don't know about that. I can see some scenarios where they're a significant group - teen-age PS3 owners who don't have a credit card to order on-line or tend to make more impulse purchases, perhaps. Though why they don't go check and see if the Best Buy at the other end of the mall has it first stumps me, even if you're only saving $5 that way.

Well, that depends which Queen Elizabeth you're talking about.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Those rackjobbers' prices are usually terrible though. But I can't speak for the awareness/smarts of some of these kids today, running around with their pants halfway down their arses.

Good point re "the queen." Cate, not Helen.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I'm not saying it in a "teenagers are dumb" way, just in a "I want it right now" way. Sure, you can save ten bucks ordering something on Amazon, but that doesn't help with "Paprika in HD? Dudes, that's mind-blowing... Let's watch it tonight!" You're paying extra for convenience and (theoretically) better selection than what's at Best Buy.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Well, as far as the consumer behavior of teenagers, we're spitballing.

But I would disagree with even the theoretical notion that those mall stores have more selection than the big boxers. I've seen Best Buys with CD and DVD sections bigger than the entire footprint of many Suncoast and FYE stores.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Which is why what used to be the Musicland group is in freefall and has been shuffled between several owners in the past ten years - back in the VHS/LD days, Suncoast was pretty damn indispensable for me; it was the only place in town to get anything but the week's top 2 releases, anime, etc. Now they're pretty much obsolete, but there are always going to be people who keep coming out of inertia until they're truly dead.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

The Digital Bits Rumor Mill - Current Posts


Grain of salt and what have you.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

More like a Costco-size shaker.

Not unlike so many other assertions of his, I have to ask in response: "word" according to whom?

Work with me here: DaViD, you've asserted that Warner's BDs offer a representation of what their HD DVDs look like given that WHV has been authoring to the 'lowest common denominator' instead of optimizing encodes for BD's greater bandwidth and capacity.

IF we can generally state that Universal's best-looking (HD DVD) releases have as good of PQ as WHV's best-looking BD releases, then this notion that U's HD DVD authoring isn't good enough for BD presentation doesn't compute. It's akin to saying (and I know some have) that all of WHV's BDs "aren't good enough."

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I'd be surprised if we did see Universal's HD DVD transfers remastered for Blu-ray. Do some of their titles need to be re-done, sure, but most I suspect will simply be ports leaving the door open for double-dips for those that need to have all 50Gb filled. The quality of the HD DVD discs that I own is very much on par with my Blu-ray discs.

However, if this is the stance Universal is taking then this is more than likely a negotiation tactic in order to get some free encoding out of the BDA, nothing more.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Why did you pull my name into this? I wasn't the one reporting Bill's post.

However, since you invited me into the discusion...

I think what Bill is talking about is what HD DVD enthusiasts over at AVS have also been pissed about: Universal's catalog releases which are all-too-often using out-dated HD transfers with "hard coded" problems in the original film-to-digital scan that Universal just slaps onto HD DVD to make another release without taking on the added cost of a new optimized HD transfer on proper equipment using more transparent scanning techniques.

A LOT has improved in film scan over the past 10 years. Just look at the crappy 5th Element BD Sony first dumped on BD using an out-dated master. Same with WB and a few of their titles (Fugitive) that got them slapped on the wrist as well.

Universal has also been critizied for trying to go cheap and using crappy legacy HD transfers off the shelf, but so far they haven't really changed course from using out-dated HD masters to save a few bucks on catalog releases when a new film-scan would have really benefited the HDM release.

I think Bill's choice of words was bad when he said that these encodes "aren't good enough" for BD. What he means is that they aren't good enough for the BD consumer which hasn't grown used to Universal's consistently bad HD transfers, as the other studios (including WB) have generally now gotten into the habit of doing new film transfers when necessary to deliver a decent HDM experience.

None of this has anything to do with compression or bit-rates as per other discussions about Waner "dumbing down" their encodes to fit into the bandwidth limits of one format over the other. Bill is talking specifically about the film transfers/HD masters themselves.


As a consumer, even if via the BDA's bill, I'd rather get decent HD masters from Universal titles the first time around!

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

This is tangential, but did The Fugitive BD use the same transfer as the HDD (or was there a remaster like T5E)? I tried doing a search on HTF and checking a couple different reviews elsewhere, but couldn't find anything conclusive on this.

Thanks.

_Man_

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

That sentence had me wondering what 'Bill' might be referring to. Since whatever I have seen and read over here has always suggested that the picture quality on both HD formats is pretty much the same. My first thought was maybe there was some kind fo technical reason for the UNiversal masters not being on par for Blu-Ray while they may have been so for HD-DVD. Although I could'nt really think of what kind of technicality that could be. Anyhow what 'David' just said, does explain what 'Bill' might have mean't. Ofcourse this is presuming that David is right in his assumptions of Bill's intent.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

The same transfer was used on BD. I believe that Full Metal Jacket was the only "critizied" old-master HD DVD that got re-transfered for BD (and the HD DVD re-release).



Haven't heard back from Bill yet to confirm exactly what he meant, but I can tell you that my comments about Universal's often poor-quality catalog transfers and the studio's unwillingness to spend the cash for new transfers even for release on high-quality BDM such as HD DVD is no secret. Threads at AVS, started by HD DVD enthusiasts, are devoted to this topic.

Even at that HD event where Ron taped the speakers, Universal was criticized by folks in the audience for their poor-video quality on catalog releases and if you listen to the Universal rep explain he basically passes the buck and says "well, that's how our old HD masters looked, so that's the best we could do". It apparently never occured to him that other studios, well, *make a new transfer* when the one on the self is inferior.

Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

For those of you here that would like to petition both Universal , Dreamworks and Paramount to support Blu-ray. Here are two links.

These are the only two Blu-ray petitions I know about. Both are copied and pasted from the web pages.

The petition for Universal:


To: Universal Studios We, the owners of the Blu-ray Disc technology encourage Universal Studios to release its films on the Blu-ray disc format as you do with the HD DVD format. Soon there will be millions of Blu-ray disc players in homes throughout the world and that the decision for Universal Studios to release its films on the Blu-ray disc technology makes perfect sense, both fiscally and with customer appreciation.
Sincerely,




The Undersigned




Universal Studio Support of Blu-ray Petition






The petition For Dreamworks & Paramount

This petition is for people who think that Paramount and Dreamworks should go back to Blu-Ray.

Moving soley to HD-DVD is awful for film fans who own Blu-Ray playing technology, mainly because the studios are cutting out people that want to see the movies but might not want to have to go out and spend for a HD-DVD player if they haven't got one.

Theres also people that actually prefer Blu-Ray to HD-DVD, so the studios are cheating the film fans again by not giving them what they want, by producing films for both formats.

This almost looks like the studios have looked soley out for themselves and not for the people that buy their films.

As times go on there is going to be more people getting Blu-Ray players with new PS3 owners and people buying Blu-Ray players, who Paramount and Dreamworks believe should either have to miss out or buy a HD-DVD technology if they don't have it.

Surely that is not on, and they should be letting the widest possible audience watch their films.

Sign on if you agree

Paramount and Dreamworks back to Blu-Ray Petition : [ powered by iPetitions.com ]


I just feel that if we want the HDM to move forward it is now time to let Universal, Dreamworks and Paramount know we want there movies on the Blu-ray format. By sending these studios these petitions it is my hope that it will cause them to rethink there position and support Blu-ray. This will help end the format war and let the industry concentrate on marketing one format to the consumer. It will also end the confusion of what format to buy as there will no longer be two formats.

These are not petitions involving HTF but consumers that want to see movies available on Blu-ray.

I just signed the Universal petition and there was 327 signatures on it.

Re: Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

Where's the petition for every other studio to release on HD-DVD? I'd sign that one if online petitions did anything but waste bandwidth.

Re: Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

Internet petitions are meaningless. I've never seen one that had any effect on anything.

Re: Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

Yep, online petitions are a waste. Just give it time Paramount and Universal will support Blu-ray.

Re: Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

A few days ago I also emailed Universal and Parmount requesting that they support Blu-ray. I thought that a petition would be easier and more effective. But if they really do not do anything then plese feel free to email the studios directly.

Re: Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

Meaningless? What about the ones to end the war and impeach the president? Oh wait... nevermind.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I didn't "pull" you in; you're already clearly invested in discussion of these topics and frequently sound like Bill's doppelganger.

And, I had the sensation of standing on the deck . . . holding a bucket of chum . . . watching the shark . . .


This is perhaps the most succinct, blatant example of your often patronizing, condescending attitude towards HD DVD and its advocates. I reject the notion that I and other HD DVD viewers have become anesthetized by U HD DVD's purportedly mediocre quality to what good HD looks like. And from various reviews of U titles, many other people disagree with you as well.



Michael Osadciw asked a question about poorer quality on catalog titles. That is all. I was there; you were not. Don't reify it into more than it is by saying "folks," intimating that there were multitudes of people harping on Ken Graffeo about allegedly poor U catalog PQ. This is like saying all Sony releases look like the first T5E BD. Not all U HD DVDs look like The Game.

Re: Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

The studios understand money, the biggest message you can send them is to buy films on bluray and not on hd dvd if you're a dual format owner. A few months of that and they'll get the message loud and clear. This is what I intend to to do, the end is in sight, time now for the little guys to put their own small nails into the hd dvd coffin and get this thing over with so we can films released.

Universal will be the final holdout, they want that stupid expensive combo format to be some sort of standard. Haven't bought one yet and I won't. I don't want an sd version of a film rammed down my throat when all I want is the hd version, and those putzes are insisting on combo discs for all new releases. For me, that makes universal dead to me, paramount is useless, and that makes hd dvd about as a dead as a format can get.

Vote with your wallet. Those guys don't understand anything else.

Re: Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

Definitely. This is exactly what I am doing, but I'll sign the petitions anyway.

Re: Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

Yeah, no kidding. Someone has more time than sense on their hands.

Re: Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

I'd agree with "stupid expensive combo format" until I saw what most of the studios are charging for Blu-Ray discs. Uh, $45 for WALK HARD?! $40 for practically every Fox title? I have no love for combos (although it did allow me to bring HOT FUZZ to watch on vacation with my parents), but this seems a ridiculous beef in comparison. Hi-Def media has to come WAY down in price if it's going to make the kind of desired impact. Disney and Warner Bros. seem to get this.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

From NPD Group, via thedigitalbits.com:




Wow. Those numbers post-Warner announcement are ridiculous. No wonder Toshiba lowered their prices and emphasized DVD upscaling.

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I have no doubt that HD DVD HW numbers are down since the WB announcment, but be careful with weekly numbers. A large portion of Toshiba's sales are only reflected in the monthly numbers not the weekly ones. There have been some months (and this won't be one of them) where BD has led in the weekly sales, but Toshiba has moved more units according to the final monthly numbers.

Re: Petition Universal & Paramount to support Blu-ray

That HD DVD petition is also spreading more anti-Sony, anti-BD propaganda:

**"We have a chance to save a superior format from collapsing under the weight of the greedy Sony corporation and its inferior Blu-Ray format.."**

Perhaps these type of petitions would have more respect among the HD-community, if they didn´t sound like started by some 15-year old "format fan" with pimples..

If you want to gain some respect, at least be honest and in some ways "fair" with your petitions..

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Paul,

there are entire threads at AVS about Universal's often poor-quality catalog-title HD DVD encodes... and they are started by and contributed by HD DVD enthusiasts. Are you taking issue with them as well?

I'm not saying that every HD DVD released by Universal is sub-par. I'm specifically stating that when legacy masters exists, Universal uses them to save money regardless of whether a picture-quality gain would be had by spending the money on a new film-to-digital transfer.

That's a basic fact, at least according to the HD DVD enthusiasts at AVS and other forums.

Your reaction only reinforces that you're falling prey to a fanboyism knee-jerk response: I made no slam against HD DVD, and even stressed that this issue was not related to any format-limitations as past discussions may have implied, yet because I criticized the mastering practices of a studio who strongly supports HD DVD, I get criticized. Go and read those threads by HD DVD enthusiasts over at AVS who are frustrated with Universal's use of legacy masters to gain a more balanced perspective before shooting the messenger who's reporting what they, the HD DVD owners, are saying.


I appologise if it sounded like that was what I meant. That's not what I intended to say at all: what I meant to communicate was that HD DVD enthusiasts tolerated Universals practices because they had no choice in the matter: Universal was the strongest HD DVD content provider and even when some industry and consumer voices criticized poor catalog transfers it fell on deaf ears at the studio becasue Universal knew they'd sell the content either way and viewed it as the more cost-effective approach. I never intended to suggest that HD DVD consumer level of discernment for good-versus-bad picture was nullified by growing used to Unversal catalog titles, merely that they put up with it because they had to if they wanted those movies and so they begrudgingly did (according to HD DVD consumers at AVS).

Universal has a harder competition group in the BD arena because Warner, Sony, Fox, and Disney (the best of all being Disney and Sony at this point) are now comitted to top-drawer film transfers after having been criticized heavily for a few early botched titles. If Universal wants to compete with their dollars against this larger pool of content providers for HDM sales, they'll have to improve their product. The analog would be when early in DVDs life cycle many studios tried to recycle 4x3 letterboxed laserdisc masters to save the cost of new 16x9 transfers. But once a few of the major studios embraced 16x9 as a rule, the other studios were forced to do the same in order to compete with disc sales as consumers had enough choices with the larger pool of content to pick and chose based on perceived quality-value in addition to "just wanting to watch the movie".

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

By the way, when looking at the chart Brandon posted above from the Digital Bits, you need to know that the numbers DO NOT include the PS3.

Imagine what they would look like if it did.