Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*
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**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* - Page 77

post #2281 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
regarding the parenthetical, I think it's an important quibble to say that it depends on how one defines "failure": lack of mainstream sucess? By that def, LD was a "failure." Lack of new releases? I'll grant you that partially. But Amazon Marketplace (and Elusive Disc and Music Direct) have really changed the landscape as far as availability of titles--used and new--that might not be available new in B & Ms anymore. Additionally, the Genesis catalog was released on SACD this year.
Based on 2005 RIAA sales figures, SACD and DVD-A unit sales were 0.14 percent of the unit sales of CDs (and it's not getting better, from what I see). I don't see how that can be considered anything but a failure, given the fact that it was hoped and planned that both SACD and DVD-A would supplant CD. If the HD formats are in that percent range several years from now, they'll no doubt be considered failures.

Quote:
We can point to anecdotal evidence of this but I question stating it as though it is an unequivocal fact that "very few" people think DSD and high rez PCM / MLP are imrovements over Redbook. Not only was there less debate about the revelation that multichannel aud can be, but I think the debates you might be referring to are/were about bitrates, DSD-to-PCM conversion and other minutiae.
Well, I'd say 0.14 percent is very few. But there's controversy even among high end audiophiles (I've seen the debates).

Quote:
No such disagreement exists about the improvement provided over DVD by the HD formats

Though they may be in the minority, I've seen posts right here at good ol' HTF that make this untrue.
True, but I was talking about high end videophiles (those who have front projectors and other top of the line displays). I should also probably make a distinction between film buffs and those types who think all "HD" should look like the Discovery Channel.
post #2282 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
Remember, the Laserdisc format??? Man-o-man does anyone ever remember any BOGO sales during the formats run of over 16+ years!
That was an entirely different time with a very different retail landscape so you can't even compare the two time periods.
post #2283 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Personally I believe that there are several reasons why SACD/DVD failed, although SACD has built a small niche with the non mainstream music industry'. Many of the reasons have already been mentioned here, but there are a few reasons that most have overlooked. I think one fo the most important reason is that neither format had any major mainstream new releases day & date with the CD. If one were to look at the sales of HD media today, most of the sales are for day & date new releases. How many of us would have bought into HD right now if the studios were only releasing a few catalog titles. The music industry just did not provide the software support that the movie industry is providing to HD video. I personally would have bought so many titles if they had only been released on SACD which personally I think is superior and far more easy to handle than DVD-Audio. DVD-Audio due to being available in cheaper players compared to SACD was what was more commonly in people's homes and quite honestly DVD-Audio was too much trouble due to it's DVD-Video like interface. In the first year or so, I bought almost 50 titles (around 40 SACD and 10 DVD-audio titles), but then due to the lack of new mainstream day & date releases, I too lost interest after a while. There is only so much of classical, jazz, blues recording that I was interested in. The timing of the product launches were also not good. It was a time when people were discovering MP3s and already foregoing even the existing CD, thus establishing a new more expensive format became doubly difficult. Also unlike HD video not many had the equipment to benefit from the higher rez audio formats. The music industry needed to release more music with 5.1 mixes to highlight the difference/superiority of SACD/DVD-Audio over CDs and MP3s, but they failed to do so. In fact most of the catalog mainstream titles were released with only 2.0 tracks, which was a big mistake. Now on the other hand if some of the big, pop catalog titles had been released with new 5.1 mixes, it would have most certainly helped. Over the last 5 - 6 yrs so many more people now have added decent sound systems and that too 5.1 systems, it is these people that SACD/DVD-Audio should have been targeted a,t with 5.1 sound remixes for catalog releases and with day & date popular title releases. In the end the existence of two formats were the single biggest reason for their failure, since the music industry was not willing to invest in two formats and they simply stayed away from both.
post #2284 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Based on 2005 RIAA sales figures, SACD and DVD-A unit sales were 0.14 percent of the unit sales of CDs (and it's not getting better, from what I see). I don't see how that can be considered anything but a failure, given the fact that it was hoped and planned that both SACD and DVD-A would supplant CD.

I level the same criticism of this as I do those who are currently obsessed with the weekly horse race of HD DVD versus BD sales: are you a marketeer or a music/movie lover first?

First of all, looking at high rez sales as a percentage of CD sales (just because *some* labels wanted to replace the CD with a new packaged media form factor) does not tell the whole story. Telarc obviously feels that SACD is viable regardless of what percentage SACD is of CD sales.

Regardless of whatever the percentage of CDs is doesn't alter the enjoyment and availability of what is out there. I have dozens of SACDs and a few dozen DVD-As and several dozen more of both on my Wish List. The enjoyment of high rez/multichannel music--which is what this hobby is purportedly all about, not business school wanna be case studies--is something that is not mitigated by whatever the sales figures are.

Well, I'd say 0.14 percent is very few.

There is not a one-to-one correspondence between sales and people thinking that the tech is an improvement or not. Although I question (the lack of broadness of) these people's music tastes, I read complaints from interested parties who weren't buying because their favorite artists weren;t getting released (never mind the fact that I would argue one of the biggest upsides of new formats is expanding one's tastes).

and quite honestly DVD-Audio was too much trouble due to it's DVD-Video like interface.

"Quite honestly" hogwash. Just press "Play" instead of 'drawer close' to start playback from m.c. track one. No display required.

In the end the existence of two formats were the single biggest reason for their failure,

Again, disagreed.

since the music industry was not willing to invest in two formats and they simply stayed away from both.

Which is why the biggest label in the industry released dozens of titles on both formats, right?
post #2285 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Paul, I'm not arguing the points you're making that are rather subjective in nature. The point of comparison I was making was between SACD/DVD-A and HDDVD/BR. If the two HD formats are able to muster only 0.14 percent of the market in several years, they'll be consider failures, and it won't matter if a bunch of us on HTF and AVS write eloquently about how glorious hidef film transfers are for us. Hard sales numbers don't overcome "feelings" in board rooms.
post #2286 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
On the software side of pricing, it's true that music CDs have stayed relatively "high". However, even against competition from downloading music, the music studios still won't alter their pricing paradigm. It seems to be a mind-set in the industry that's just "stuck". There's not any strong evidence to suggest that music CDs would have been priced much differently with two formats versus one (SACD and DVD-A were even more expensive, not less, despite the "format compeition" factor).

DVDs, on the other hand, are very reasonably priced given the return in entertainment value, and that relatively low-price point happened with inter-studio competition with just one format.

I agree and I've never understood why the music industry didn't look at DVD prices and realize that people buy movies on DVD because of the perceived value. Movies on DVD not only give you the movie, but extra features. Music CDs just don't have that value added quality, yet they price them as though they do.

Doug
post #2287 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
That it's time to reduce prices on combo discs? Which I think they're doing; apparently future new releases will no longer cost five bucks more on HD-DVD than they will on BD, despite being combos.

You know this is interesting because I have a friend who's daughter wanted Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. And she wanted it on DVD because she wanted to be able to watch it in her room.

He was kind of in a quandary because he wanted it on HD DVD but didn't want to buy the film twice. I said I think that film is a combo, and sure enough the combo is actually only $3 more than the 2 disc DVD version. So for an extra $3 he has an HD DVD that his daughter can also watch in her bedroom. If he had to buy both the DVD and HD DVD it would have cost him $46. As apposed to $24 for the combo.

Doug
post #2288 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Hard sales numbers don't overcome "feelings" in board rooms.

Begrudgingly agreed. But I would have been more comfortable, in that parenthetical, had you said the formats are considered failures in those board rooms. An enthusiast forum, where passionate consumers--for better and for worse--perhap revel in niche status--is the last place I want to see market values rule the day.
post #2289 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Regarding the continued high sales of 'Planet Earth', has anyone noticed that even in it's 33rd week of release it is at No. 7 on the DVD (SD) sales chart. I guess it's plain and simple, a very popular title and being a boxed set, it makes for a nice Christmas gift, which could explain it's increased popularity during the holiday shopping period.
post #2290 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Hard sales numbers don't overcome "feelings" in board rooms.

Begrudgingly agreed. But I would have been more comfortable, in that parenthetical, had you said the formats are considered failures in those board rooms. An enthusiast forum, where passionate consumers--for better and for worse--perhap revel in niche status--is the last place I want to see market values rule the day.
Actually, I'd be content to have the HD formats achieve the level of success laserdisc had. After all, it was around for over 20 years and produced over 20,000 titles. That doesn't sound bad
post #2291 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
What was the other format that competed year after year with DVD to drive prices down? (hint... it wasn't the flash-in-the-pan DIVX)

Why... it was *other* DVD players. Intra-format competition. As long as you have more than one company making players... they'll compete with each other. Same with Compact Disc. Remember, both DVD and CD players first hit consumers @ $1K. Prices quickly fell over the next few years.
Granted. It's funny but I've just realized that my introduction and buying into DVD is almost virtually the same as my buying into HDM.

Let me explain. When DVD was introduced I, like most people, were put off by the high cost of the hardware($500) and lack of titles. But within a few months prices quickly became affordable. My first player was a Toshiba 2nd or 3rd generation player and priced at about $240. I bought in. I always thought DVD titles, if you shopped around, were easily affordable. DVD did have competition in it's early history..the Laserdisc format. Not much competition I grant you but for aspiring video enthusiasts it was a no brainer to choose between the two. Laserdisc hardware was still expensive and the average cost of a DVD title when compared to the same Laserdisc title was 1/3rd the cost. VHS was also still popular but so technically inferior as to not even be funny. DVD's introduction couldn't have been timed any better.

Skip ahead a few years. I thought the $500 Toshiba A1 was way to expensive for my taste so I waited. Well...I didn't have to wait to long before Toshiba lowered the price of their A2 to $245 in June. Needless to say...I am a Toshiba fan!!!! My 1080p TV is Toshiba. This laptop I'm typing on is a Toshiba. Quality products at an affordable price.

I don't think you can say with any certainty that, in a single format entertainment system, there will always be competitive pricing among that formats manufacturers. I think it depends a great deal on the POPULARITY of the format. Again, using Laserdisc as an example, there was no concerted effort made by any Laserdisc hardware or software manufacturers to reduce pricing to an affordable level. Why? Obviously because the Laserdisc format did not gain mass acceptance. It wasn't in their interests to reduce prices nor was their any motivation to do so. This was not the case with the POPULAR DVD format. Competition between DVD hardware and software manufacturers worked beautifully and ideally.

That Toshiba was instumental and a major player in lowering the introductory costs of BOTH HD formats is indisputable. I hate to think what would have happened if Toshiba had gone under during the "blitz." I fear that Blu-ray would have started down the LD trail with manufacturers, hardware and software, pricing their products on the high end of the spectrum with no fear of competition, even amongst themselves, thus assuring that HD would remain just a niche product.

I say it again. For HDM to take the next step to mass acceptance, low pricing is crucial and the way to achieve low pricing is through format competition. End of rant.
post #2292 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
I agree with the "one format supporters" being way off base.
I do believe, however, that, to some extent, human behavior responses can be predicted. For instance, I don't think I'm going too far out a limb by proclaiming that those people that purchased DVD collections will also, in time, purchase HD collections. So it follows, in my estimation, that HDM will enjoy the same success as DVD but over an extended period of time.
But, obviously for this to occur, HD hardware and software prices MUST be kept affordable!!!
To remain affordable, it's imperative that BOTH formats survive for some time, if only that they may compete with each other.
Remember, the Laserdisc format??? Man-o-man does anyone ever remember any BOGO sales during the formats run of over 16+ years! Nope, because of its niche status software, and to a large extent, hardware prices remained very expensive.


Please explain how DVD prices came down so quick? Wasn't it VHS VS DVD. It should be HD versus DVD that will reduce prices. In my estimation the war is not making HD disc prices come down. In fact it could be delaying it.
post #2293 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I agree and I've never understood why the music industry didn't look at DVD prices and realize that people buy movies on DVD because of the perceived value. Movies on DVD not only give you the movie, but extra features. Music CDs just don't have that value added quality, yet they price them as though they do.

Doug

Doug, The reason is likely incompatibiity with car stereo equipment, home cd players and can't copy with software. If all cd drives played both, then you would have seen a move to the format.
post #2294 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigluigi
Skip ahead a few years. I thought the $500 Toshiba A1 was way to expensive for my taste so I waited. Well...I didn't have to wait to long before Toshiba lowered the price of their A2 to $245 in June. Needless to say...I am a Toshiba fan!!!! My 1080p TV is Toshiba. This laptop I'm typing on is a Toshiba. Quality products at an affordable price.

I don't think you can say with any certainty that, in a single format entertainment system, there will always be competitive pricing among that formats manufacturers. I think it depends a great deal on the POPULARITY of the format. Again, using Laserdisc as an example, there was no concerted effort made by any Laserdisc hardware or software manufacturers to reduce pricing to an affordable level. Why? Obviously because the Laserdisc format did not gain mass acceptance. It wasn't in their interests to reduce prices nor was their any motivation to do so. This was not the case with the POPULAR DVD format. Competition between DVD hardware and software manufacturers worked beautifully and ideally.

That Toshiba was instumental and a major player in lowering the introductory costs of BOTH HD formats is indisputable. I hate to think what would have happened if Toshiba had gone under during the "blitz." I fear that Blu-ray would have started down the LD trail with manufacturers, hardware and software, pricing their products on the high end of the spectrum with no fear of competition, even amongst themselves, thus assuring that HD would remain just a niche product.

I say it again. For HDM to take the next step to mass acceptance, low pricing is crucial and the way to achieve low pricing is through format competition. End of rant.

I have to disagree with your thought process. Using laser disc is not the same. Even if there were two format players in laser discs, the price would have been high, due to many not liking the format (Flipping the disc, large size) and companies were already building the it's replacement. Then DVD was introduces and the size was right (matched the already CD size).

We can all speculate or use DVD as the baseline. If we want HD to really not become a laser disc, then we need one format or all disc drives to read both. People do not like incompatibility. I am one of them.
post #2295 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Sorry to be so negative on the war, I just want HD to take off in mass and be able to use the discs anywhere in the future. Wouldn't it be great if:

1) You could save your an entire CD collection on one disc to play in the car wthout using an IPOD.
2) You could use the disc in your playstation or xbox.
3) Your home videos were not limited by the DVD size and save home movies to a large capacity disc? Play it on any HD player in the house.
4) You can take a disc to a friends house an not have to ask what player they have.
5) Could buy a movie from any studio and play it in your player.
6) Rent a movie at your local video rental and not have to look at the ones you can't
7) Take the disc and play it in your van.
post #2296 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio
I disagee, surprise. Since there was no data released on the total number of unique people of the 750,000 players that used web content, we don't know the answer.
Didn't Trasformes sell more than 80K? Where did the 80K come from?
It is funny how we can all spin the numbers......
There is no spinning simply put, using the 750k player install base in your original post (#2132) and this post concerning the on-line feature of HD-DVD is intellectually dishonest.

The press release from the HD group stated the following.

“Transformers,” which continues to be one of the top selling titles in any high definition format, had more than 80,000 unique online users, with 31% returning to download additional content as it became available.

Since the press release is specifically stating the numbers for Transformers any useful analysis has to use the Transformers HD-DVDs units sold has its’ baseline number. Using the player install base produces worthless data since not everyone who owns a player purchased Transformers. Only an analysis that uses the actual number of potential users could be considered useful.

On a side note I find your frequent posts against the HD DVD on-line feature ironic considering the fact that Sony’s Blu-Ray organization has for years used Blu-Ray’s on-line ability as a prominent part of their marketing pitch.

In the end all players will have the ability to go on-line which will be to the benefit of the consumer. Who could argue that there is a downside to that?
post #2297 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio
Doug, The reason is likely incompatibiity with car stereo equipment, home cd players and can't copy with software. If all cd drives played both, then you would have seen a move to the format.

Sorry Dan but you've lost me here. Are you saying that I can't play a CD in my car stereo? Or that I can't copy a CD at home? If all CD drives played both what? I'm very confused here.

Doug
post #2298 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
Actually, I'd be content to have the HD formats achieve the level of success laserdisc had. After all, it was around for over 20 years and produced over 20,000 titles. That doesn't sound bad
As would I. But, according to your posts, that would constitute "failure."
post #2299 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_Ohio
Sorry to be so negative on the war, I just want HD to take off in mass and be able to use the discs anywhere in the future. Wouldn't it be great if:

3) Your home videos were not limited by the DVD size and save home movies to a large capacity disc? Play it on any HD player in the house.
4) You can take a disc to a friends house an not have to ask what player they have.
5) Could buy a movie from any studio and play it in your player.
6) Rent a movie at your local video rental and not have to look at the ones you can't
7) Take the disc and play it in your van.
You can. Buy a Combo player and stop worrying. As a plus, you will end up with a much more colorful (Blue and Red) collection.
post #2300 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_S
There is no spinning simply put, using the 750k player install base in your original post (#2132) and this post concerning the on-line feature of HD-DVD is intellectually dishonest.

The press release from the HD group stated the following.

“Transformers,” which continues to be one of the top selling titles in any high definition format, had more than 80,000 unique online users, with 31% returning to download additional content as it became available.

Since the press release is specifically stating the numbers for Transformers any useful analysis has to use the Transformers HD-DVDs units sold has its’ baseline number. Using the player install base produces worthless data since not everyone who owns a player purchased Transformers. Only an analysis that uses the actual number of potential users could be considered useful.

On a side note I find your frequent posts against the HD DVD on-line feature ironic considering the fact that Sony’s Blu-Ray organization has for years used Blu-Ray’s on-line ability as a prominent part of their marketing pitch.

In the end all players will have the ability to go on-line which will be to the benefit of the consumer. Who could argue that there is a downside to that?

Patrick, I hope you agree that the original press release is also bias. Since Paramount is using two sets of numbers. There is no way for them to know if the people logging in are from the original sales of 80,000 are the ones using the online function . The disc has sold more than that number. If the press release was out at the end of the first week then I would believe the numbers. You are correct, mine went to the opposite extreme.

As for the on-line function I think it is a nice to have but not a requirement. If it gives studios a reason to not include extra content on the disc, then I am not for it. If it is used for updated bios or facts, that's great,
but since there is no guarantee the content will be there in the future, I want extras on the disc.

How often do you use the HD-DVD online content? What option are you using? If they went away would you care?
post #2301 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppltd
You can. Buy a Combo player and stop worrying. As a plus, you will end up with a much more colorful (Blue and Red) collection.

I guess I can spend a premium on equpment and hope that I can find a PC/equipment with both and pay a premium; since one company decided to create their own format. Great idea.

I guess I look past just the home theater experience for my formats. If it was just a purchased movie format then I would agree with you.
post #2302 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I don't see bias in the Transformers press release. The numbers are pretty simple. As of the date of the PR, 80,000 people who owned Transformers had been on-line at least once to check it out/download extra content, and 31% (almost 25,000) of those people have gone back online at least a second time with Transformers, probably because they kept adding content.
post #2303 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
I don't see bias in the Transformers press release. The numbers are pretty simple. As of the date of the PR, 80,000 people who owned Transformers had been on-line at least once to check it out/download extra content, and 31% (almost 25,000) of those people have gone back online at least a second time with Transformers, probably because they kept adding content.

Adam how do they know they are unique users? Are they tracking ip addresses?

How many discs were sold at the time they tracked the 80,000? Isn't that a better reprentation of who is using online content?

How do they know that people went back due to more content? That is an assumption, I did not read any facts.

With both camps they are going to make the numbers look better. It is our job to put them in perspective.
post #2304 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
As would I. But, according to your posts, that would constitute "failure."
But why would it matter if some stuck the failure label on something that lasted over 20 years and produced over 20,000 titles? That's a better fate than SACD and DVD-A, I believe.
post #2305 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Because that's not a failure, Robert. And that double standard/shifting criteria calls out the subjective criteria for your "failure" comment.

The formats are not "failures" just because they did not achieve mainstream acceptance, supplant CD and are not still seeing a robust release slate. And your own comments about being okay with possible, eventual LD niche status for HDM prove that marginal sales and format "failure" are not one and the same. Personally, for reasons I've touched on earlier, I'm also tired of the problematic analogizing of HD DVD/BD to SA-CD/DVD-A. Nick Graham started a whole thread on this topic.

Just say the formats achieved underwhelming sales as far as you're concerned. Jack Renner and Robert Woods clearly have a different opinion than you . . . and they own the largest American-owned classical record label. Saying they are "failures" is insulting to those of us who are still buying, listening . . . and re-arranging our living rooms to reconcile THX film surround versus ITU music surround speaker placement suggestions.
post #2306 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Sorry Dan but you've lost me here. Are you saying that I can't play a CD in my car stereo? Or that I can't copy a CD at home? If all CD drives played both what? I'm very confused here.

Doug

There was a post on DVD-A.
post #2307 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

What do people think of Microsoft's latest move?
http://www.informationweek.com/windo...leID=204803099

Xbox live required. Is HD-DVD a microsoft only platform?
post #2308 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Web-enabled content requires registration.
post #2309 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Just say the formats achieved underwhelming sales as far as you're concerned. Jack Renner and Robert Woods clearly have a different opinion than you . . . and they own the largest American-owned classical record label. Saying they are "failures" is insulting to those of us who are still buying, listening . . . and re-arranging our living rooms to reconcile THX film surround versus ITU music surround speaker placement suggestions.

I own a SACD player and am still buying titles for it, and I have no problem with people calling the format a failure and it doesn't insult to me at all. In fact, I agree that it's a failure even though it has a very small niche and some companies are making a tidy little profit off it. Quite simply, it's considered a failure because the format came nowhere close to doing what Sony wanted it to do - replace CDs. Sony seems to have the same feelings on the format as they've done very little for it in the last few years.
post #2310 of 3878

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

The Sony vision for SACD, whatever it was, is dispositive of little. SACD is not the first time other companies have taken their idea and executed/supported it better than they have. It's mystifying.

Frankly, I long ago reached a point wherein I care little about what Sony execs may think in this regard: they botched their format rollout (sound familiar?) with all those early single layer, stereo only titles of non-DSD recordings and a $1k first player that didn't even play CDs. And their recent (as in, the past few years) market behavior is so atrocious that it's problematic to view it as indicative of anything other than their own short-sightedness.

I'd be lying if I said my experience with Sony, as an SACD consumer and former employee, doesn't inform my attitude towards BD and its future.
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Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*