Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*
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**Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106* - Page 67

post #1981 of 3878
11/20/07 at 4:59am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricW
fan noise.

E.g. stand-alone Toshiba has some fan noise too (yes, I have one).. I guess with these newer players and consoles, there are some fan noise (they´re almost computers in a way). But it´s true that PS3 has some fan noise, I don´t claim that it´s quiet.
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post #1982 of 3878
11/20/07 at 7:27am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Well.


There's reasons we have uncomprehensibly loud sound systems right?
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post #1983 of 3878
11/20/07 at 8:23am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Some random notes on retailers:


I am an HD DVD owner for purposes of full disclosure.

BI had the opportunity to visit two different Best buy's this weekend - one in Paramus NJ and the other at 44th and Park in Manhattan.

Both had seperate display areas for Blu and HD DVD
Paramus had HD displayed first as you walked in, 44th had Blu Ray first
44th had a larger section devoted to BD
Paramus areas were about equal
Paramus had BD machines and HD machines side by side for comparison
paramus had bd and hd machines stacked side by side for sale $199 for the HD a3 (with 2 movies - 300 and Bourne ID) and $499 for the Sony (i think it was a sony, could be panasonic)
44th had the a3 stacked but I didn't see a lot of BD players stacked for sale - could have been sold out.

Neither location seemed to be pushing one format over the other in my observation although the Manhattan store seemed more BD friendly

I looked through the stacks for some HD DVD's I wanted and was surprised I was unable to find the following at either location:

Viva Las Vegas
Jailhouse Rock
Transformers!!
300!!
The Shining
Clock work orange


Actually, I was quite disappointed with the lack of titles for sale. Have titles like Mutiny on the Bounty and some of the older films been discontinued?

I didn't see Spartacus, the Searchers, the Cowboys, Rio Bravo...

Either they are selling well or there weren't a lot produced. Wonder which one it is...

Dave
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post #1984 of 3878
11/20/07 at 10:58pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

i got the PS3 for the same reasons you posted. as someone with a 360, the current benefit of playing PS3-only games is not enough to compensate for the fan noise that kicks in half-way through a movie. add to that, i HATE the PS3 controller and there's very few good PS3 games out there. i got Heavenly Sword and enjoyed it, but i have like 15 360 games i liked just as much or more. if there were a proven 1.2 compliant (or whatever the PiP version is) BR player for the same price, i'd get it.

granted most of the time with actioners like Transformers it's hard to tell, but with moody quiet films like 2001 it really detracts from the experience.
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post #1985 of 3878
11/22/07 at 8:22pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Amazon is having a Black Friday sale on hd-dvds and bluray. It's buy 2 and get one free.
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post #1986 of 3878
11/24/07 at 9:56am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Just got back from my local Walmart store in Rio Ranch, NM. That "secret sale" promo of 10 "free" movies with the $499 PS3 80GB that started at 8AM, seems to have been a bust. They got in 10 units and only sold 2 as of 10AM.
Price does matter!!!
When I was there for the A2 $98 sale, they sold 16 units in 10 minutes.
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post #1987 of 3878
11/24/07 at 10:42am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I work in a Sears Electronics dept, had the 5am-1:45pm shift yesterday. All 6 of the HDA3s we had in stock sold by 11:00 am. We had a stack of 7 Sony 300s at 5 am and still had 6 at 1:45 when I left.

I had several customers ask about BD/HD DVD. I told them pq was identical on both, which studios released on which format, that both were very good upconverting players, and the prices of the players and movies. 3 of them bought HD DVD, none bought BD. Our price on the HDA3 was 169.99 (5am to noon) and the Sony was 399. Two of the A3s were sold along with Sharp LC46D64U 1080p 46" lcd sets.
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post #1988 of 3878
11/25/07 at 4:00am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

This morning, I read this week's bargain thread and it stuck me why these new HDM formats haven't taken off better than they have so far. The software prices are just too expensive. You have BB and CC offering deals on various titles, but they're still priced 29.99 or 24.99 which isn't going to cut it in today's mass market. So not only hardware pricing has to come down, but software has to be below $20 at B&M stores for the average consumer to bite on these new formats. Those of us that shop etailers are a distinct minority while the majority of software sales occur at our local Wal-Mart, BB, CC and various other B&M stores.





Crawdaddy
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post #1989 of 3878
11/25/07 at 7:06am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
I read this week's bargain thread and it stuck me why these new HDM formats haven't taken off better than they have so far. The software prices are just too expensive. You have BB and CC offering deals on various titles, but they're still priced 29.99 or 24.99 which isn't going to cut it in today's mass market.
Is it because of production and R&D costs, or is it because the studios don't want to undercut the DVD cash cow? I wonder...
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post #1990 of 3878
11/25/07 at 10:02am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Is it because of production and R&D costs, or is it because the studios don't want to undercut the DVD cash cow? I wonder...
More than likely the answer is: STudios expect the consumer to pay for a premium product which HD and BR are.

That all said, I'm still not paying that much more for an HD product. The recent releases of Cars, Ratatouille and Pixar shorts were $5 more than the non-hd release. Some HD titles are as low as $19. That's still not that much more than a regular DVD.

Fox discs and combo discs are the exception. Fox charges a lot at $39. I don't say too much because they are selling them and nothing is ever overpriced. If it is, it will come down. This is simple economics. Combo discs are also an exception. I personally believe they should just drop the combo. They aren't too reliable and the prices they charge are hurting HD DVD. The BR versions are cheaper by $5 and that does make a difference.
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post #1991 of 3878
11/25/07 at 10:15am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Martin
More than likely the answer is: STudios expect the consumer to pay for a premium product which HD and BR are.
That's it exactly, but we're about to enter 2008 and the studios need to evaluate whether they want these HD formats to remain a niche market or not. If the answer is the latter then they need to adjust their price structure to help achieve that effect.




Crawdaddy
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post #1992 of 3878
11/25/07 at 12:11pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I've got 2 words for you.....Fry's Electronics. Crappy service, great prices.

Doug
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post #1993 of 3878
11/25/07 at 1:55pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I've got 2 words for you.....Fry's Electronics. Crappy service, great prices.

Doug
With less than 40 stores nationwide that's not going to cut it for many of us.







Crawdaddy
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post #1994 of 3878
11/26/07 at 6:51am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Even at this early stage of the HD game, I find myself waiting and trying to buy titles used on Amazon to cut down on the costs. $40 list for Fox discs is pretty outrageous, though many titles can be had for under $20 if you purchase used (not going to work for mass-acceptance, naturally, but works for me for the moment).
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post #1995 of 3878
11/26/07 at 7:31am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I have always been under the impression that one studios-perceived benefit of these new formats was to get the genie back in the bottle to some degree in terms of per-unit pricing.

Retailers certainly aren't going to sell HDM as loss leaders because the current market is so small. And I'm sure that studios see HDM as similar to 2 disk special editions that are released alongside single disk SD DVD new releases; the "better" version will be sold to the enthusiast who is more likely to pay a premium. (And since the enthusiast market is smaller, there is little incentive to discount a title to loss leader pricing.)
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post #1996 of 3878
11/26/07 at 7:36am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Robert,
I don't think they care if HDM is a niche or not. I have nothing to base that on though as this is just a gut feeling.
Quote:
Some random notes on retailers:
Here are mine from this busy weekend:
Best Buy: HD DVD was nearly non-existent here. One big TV setup had a 61" Toshiba DLP hooked up to a Panasonic BR player playing SD transformers. The only HD DVD demo was hidden away. BR was everwhere though. Software definitely favors BR. 8 or so shelves as opposed to 3 for HD.

CC All Blu except they had 1 player hooked up and out of the way for a demo setup. They had an HD player and a BR player side by side but the HD player didn't have a disc playing. They had a stack of A3's for $200 but it seemed like the stack was pretty full still. The stack of more expensive Samsung's looked like it had been picked thru. Only a few of those were left.

Wal Mart had 1 big shelf about 6 wide with 4 shelves devoted to Blu with part of the 2 shelves BLu as well. As more new titles come out, either WM will have to add more shelves or decide on which format deserves the space.

Kmart had nothing but 3 titles(2 HD and 1 BR and i mean exactly that many in stock).

Target had no players in view. The title selection was like Walmart. 7 shelves wide(5 blu, 2 HD).
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post #1997 of 3878
11/26/07 at 7:45am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
I have always been under the impression that one studios-perceived benefit of these new formats was to get the genie back in the bottle to some degree in terms of per-unit pricing.

That's certainly true for what manufacturers (other than Toshiba) had hoped to accomplish with HD-disc hardware.
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post #1998 of 3878
11/26/07 at 9:56am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Is Value Electronics still a HTF recommended dealer? The "Ask Robert Zohn" thread in the hardware forum has been locked due to Mr. Zohn's "unavailability". Hopefully all is well with Mr. Zohn; his comments were always insightful and appreciated.

Steve
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post #1999 of 3878
11/26/07 at 10:42am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
With less than 40 stores nationwide that's not going to cut it for many of us.







Crawdaddy


Yeah I know. I'm surprised that some other regional stores haven't followed the Fry's model.

Doug
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post #2000 of 3878
11/26/07 at 10:43am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Even at this early stage of the HD game, I find myself waiting and trying to buy titles used on Amazon to cut down on the costs. $40 list for Fox discs is pretty outrageous, though many titles can be had for under $20 if you purchase used (not going to work for mass-acceptance, naturally, but works for me for the moment).

So far I've only bought one Fox title and thats because Fry's had it on sale for $26. That was Die Hard. There are several Fox films that I would pick up if they weren't almost $40.

Doug
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post #2001 of 3878
11/26/07 at 10:45am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Gregory
I have always been under the impression that one studios-perceived benefit of these new formats was to get the genie back in the bottle to some degree in terms of per-unit pricing.

Retailers certainly aren't going to sell HDM as loss leaders because the current market is so small. And I'm sure that studios see HDM as similar to 2 disk special editions that are released alongside single disk SD DVD new releases; the "better" version will be sold to the enthusiast who is more likely to pay a premium. (And since the enthusiast market is smaller, there is little incentive to discount a title to loss leader pricing.)

Interesting you say this. Have you noticed the price of SD DVDs creeping up? I've been seeing day and date SD DVDS around $24 even $27.

Doug
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post #2002 of 3878
11/26/07 at 11:15am

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

At B & Ms, yes. Online pricing isn't as bad, especially with the current status of the Canadian dollar.
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post #2003 of 3878
11/26/07 at 12:09pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Interesting you say this. Have you noticed the price of SD DVDs creeping up? I've been seeing day and date SD DVDS around $24 even $27.

For years the retailers were selling them at a loss on opening week to get you in the store. I think they are more reluctant to do that. I don't think the MSRP has changed.
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post #2004 of 3878
11/26/07 at 12:19pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
For years the retailers were selling them at a loss on opening week to get you in the store. I think they are more reluctant to do that. I don't think the MSRP has changed.

Your probably right about the MSRP, but the actual sale price seems to have gone up.

Doug
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post #2005 of 3878
11/26/07 at 2:42pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Onko drops HD DVD player???

http://www.avmagazine.it/news/sorgen...asma_2654.html

translation:

http://www.google.com/translate?u=ht...&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Quote:
We were waiting for a unit of the first Onkyo HD DVD player, the DV-HD805, for review on the pages of AV Magazine. After a conversation with Tecnofuturo, the Brescia-based Italian distributor of the Japanese manufacturer, we decided in mutual agreement that it was not worth the trouble. The reasons are quickly explained: the DV-HD805 is no other than a rebranded Toshiba HD-XE1 HD DVD player, which is already compatible with streaming of all lossless multichannel HD codecs via HDMI 1.3, and there are only few units of it available.

In view of the new marketing policy being applied by Toshiba, consisting of sinking the price of its own players, Onkyo has difficulty in positioning its own player (the Europe list price is 899 euros) and has therefore decided to stop production. The scarce units produced have been redistributed in varios markets. It has been known that barely 11 units arrived in Italy, and no others will come. Germany has been more fortunate, with 20 units, and Spain will receive none.

As to why it was decided not to review such a product, apart from its being a clone, it won't be effectively be available on the market (the 11 Italian units are already sold). We thank Tecnofuturo for such a quick communication and we apologize to the enthusiasts. Onkyo is already working actively on a new player and according to tidbits it could be this time a Blu-ray player or a hybrid player. We'll have other news and more confirmation during the upcoming CES at Las Vegas.
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post #2006 of 3878
11/26/07 at 3:07pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Your probably right about the MSRP, but the actual sale price seems to have gone up.

Doug
Which goes back to what Adam stated about loss leaders and how retailers have changed their strategy which has been in place for a while now. After reviewing some retailer documentation that I've kept over the last ten years for such discussions, the MSRP has not changed in several years, however, the 40% or more discount pricing during the first week has basically stopped for new releases. The discount price is more in the 30% off range.





Crawdaddy
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post #2007 of 3878
11/26/07 at 3:10pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Doesn't Fry's website (outpost.com?) have the same prices as their B&M stores?
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post #2008 of 3878
11/26/07 at 3:13pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Also, the studios are doing more two-tier releases for their new films still on their books which means 1-disc with less bonus material and 2-disc with more bonus material and about $5.00 more than the 1-disc.

There are still some deals to be found with a release being discounted up to 40% off, but such deals are not as often as it use to be about 3-4 years ago.


With that being said, such pricing doesn't affect me as any new film being released on a video format will be bought by me on HDM and if not released on HDM, I'll wait until it is released on HDM. I only buy catalog titles now on SD-DVD.



Crawdaddy
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post #2009 of 3878
11/26/07 at 3:28pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

I haven't bought much HDM yet-- maybe 5 or 6 HD DVD titles. I haven't paid more than $19/ea yet. But I've had to do that strictly online. Wal Mart is about the only local place to buy HDM for me, and besides their $14 sale a while back, their prices are much too high.

But even if prices drop that won't be enough to get me to buy more. Right now it's more about selection than price. Frankly, there's nothing on HD DVD that I don't have that I care to buy. I don't own Blu ray, but if I did, I see 2 or 3 titles I would actually purchase. I've limited myself to buying titles I don't have on SD until the war is settled. So selection of both formats is very weak for me.
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post #2010 of 3878
11/26/07 at 6:53pm

Re: *** Official HTF HD Formats Industry/Retailer/Studio Support Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
..the MSRP has not changed in several years, however, the 40% or more discount pricing during the first week has basically stopped for new releases. The discount price is more in the 30% off range.

Unfortunately this is the same observation I've had over the last 2-3 years. I see 35% only on very high profile titles with the remainder being 25-30%. Opening week isn't the bargain it used to be.
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Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Blu-ray, DVD, Streaming Video and Digital Downloads › Blu-ray › **Official HTF HD Formats Ind./Retailer/Studio Support Thread-*SEE POST 3176, p. 106*