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Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

post #1 of 19
8/5/07 at 12:19pm
Thread Starter 
Just looking for suggestions from anyone else who owns this unit, or has any ideas.

I've got a Pioneer DV-563A player which has CD, SACD, and DVD-A as well as DVD. I am having trouble getting a subwoofer or "point one" signal. Using the unit's built-in test tones, almost nothing comes through when you activate the subwoofer test tone (it almost sounds like the Pioneer is sending out full spectrum pink noise instead of a bassy signal and then all you hear is a little noise at the top of the cut off, which is like 150 Hz.) On the set-up menu. I've tried a few DVD test discs, but there's only some sound on only one track of these. It's like the signal is getting through my receiver (Yamaha RX-V4600) and to the sub, but there's almost no signal from the Pioneer.

I am using the onboard decoder/multichannel output of the Pioneer and it's plugged into the multi-channel input of the Yamana. I've checked all the connections. I've gone through the Pioneer set up menu and made sure the subwoofer was listed as "on." As a side issue -- I also plugged in the optical from the Pioneer, using the DTV input on the Yamaha, and I get no sound that way; and yes, I went through the Pioneer menu and made sure the digital output was on.

BTW, I have another DVD player which is hooked up using the optical cable to the receiver and the bass gets to the sub just great with that, or any other source except with the Pioneer.

Any assistance would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 19
8/5/07 at 12:53pm

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Is the other dvd player (that works), using the DTV input also? If not, try hooking the Pioneer up to the same inputs the other one is using. Maybe you need to assign the DTV optical input, to the Pioneer? Also, what is the crossover set to?

A lot of people complained about the bass, when playing sacd discs, on the Pioneer. They said it had horrible bass management. I've always thought mine sounded good. I don't think I have anything set any different from anyone else, but not sure. To get more bass management with this player, a lot of folks went with an Outlaw ICBM. Outlaw has discontinued the ICBM now.

I don't know about built in test tones. Don't remember if I even used them. When I set my system up, I used the Avia disc and SPL meter. Mine is used more for movies, but I do play dvd-a and sacd, once in awhile. When I do, they sound good (plenty enough bass) for me.
Good luck.
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post #3 of 19
8/5/07 at 7:45pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Ed, thanks for your reply. The test tones are available when you change the speaker levels from fixed to variable, then you highlight which speaker you want the tone out of and then right click to light up the little speaker icon on the right.

After doing more troubleshooting, I discovered that the optical cable I had installed on the Pioneer was bad, and replaced it.

So, I tried going out the optical digital out and everything works fine there. When I use the test DVD, it sounds out the sub just fine. I double checked all of my connections on the multi-channel out/in though, and they're right; I even can get a hum when I touch the positive tip of the lead going into the receiver's sub input., so the signal path is good. I still just do not get nearly as much SW output from the multichannel outputs as I do just using the optical out and the Yamaha decoding.

I'm starting to think something is just plain wrong with the unit, as there is another firmware problem. I discovered that I can't change over DVD-A playback preference to DVD-V (most DVD-A's have an alternate Dolby Digital, or PCM or even DTS track available) -- it's "stuck" on DVD-A.

Can you change yours?

BTW, the bass problem seems worse on DVD-A than it does on SACD.

David
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post #4 of 19
8/5/07 at 8:34pm

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

I'll try that tomorrow. I know I can switch back and forth between DD 2.0/DD 5.1/DTS, etc., but never knew, or tried doing it while dvd-a is playing. There are some things that aren't accessible, while using the 5.1 outputs, that you can normally do when using digital output. Don't remember what they are. That may be one of them. Check the manual.

For awhile, Pioneer offered a free firmware update to owner's of the 563a, because of a known problem with several dvd-a discs. You had to get it to a certified repair shop, or send it in to Pioneer. They wouldn't let us download the firmware, burn it to cd, and do the firmware update ourselves. I use mine almost everyday, and just coudn't be without that long.

I doubt your player has a mechanical or electronic problem, since so many people complained of the same thing. It was just the compromise (I guess), of having a cheap, universal player, that was pretty good for the money.
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post #5 of 19
8/6/07 at 12:32am

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Bass output: without trying to sound like a smart-azz, is the level of the subwoofer channel in the 563's level menu set properly?

BTW: I don't remember all the details but unlike the DD and DTS formats, the LFE channel of a hi-res player is not required to have a built-in 10dB boost to increase the level of the .1 channel in a surround music mix. This is why on some more recent receivers you'll see an option in their 5.1 analog input menu for that boost (sometimes a 15dB boost will be offered too).

Bass management was and still is a huge quagmire for hi-res - as usual in the A/V world no one wanted to sit down and hammer out a standard everyone would use and instead they "did their own thing" with us the consumers getting the shaft. I personally do not know of any player below $400 that has a full-fledged b.m. system w/common sense crossover points and very few receivers apply b.m. to their multichannel analog inputs.

Speaking of crossover points: according to tests done by Sound & Vision, on the 563 the crossover point for sacd is 120Hz and for dvd-audio it is all the way up at - drum roll - 200Hz(!!). So if you notice your sub soundign boomy or there seems to be a gap in the sound between your satellites and your sub (if you use its built-in crossover), there's the reason.
Quote:
I discovered that I can't change over DVD-A playback preference to DVD-V
IIRC (I used a 563 for about six months), just like my Pioneer DV-656A there should be an option in its set-up menu for dvd-audio or dvd-video playback.......unless a firmware update eliminated it on yours?

BTW: very few dvd-audio discs except some of the latest from DTS Entertainment, have their Dolby Digital and/or DTS tracks listed on the same menu as the hi-res tracks.
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post #6 of 19
8/6/07 at 7:26pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Thanks for the replies. I haven't done any firmware updates and I guess I'll have to look into it. This whole thing has been so disappointing that I'm about ready to try* the Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi and see if that doesn't fair better. With the Yamaha receiver I have, it will take the iLink inputs and do away with the analog multi channel inputs completely.

Anyone have any experience with that unit?

David

*when I can afford it, that is.
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post #7 of 19
8/7/07 at 8:02am

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

If a different player is an option, don't overlook Oppo. The 970 is $149 and does DVD-A/SACD/DVD-V/DTS onboard decoding. The BM is decent with a fixed 120hz crossover for all formats if engaged. Speaker distance and level settings are available for all channels, including sub. If your receiver processes sound via HDMI, the 970 can deliver decoded PCM that you could then apply BM via the receiver. Video quality isn't bad either. :-)

The other option I was considering last year was the H/K DVD47. It has multiple crossover frequencies options for BM. At the time, I never saw any reviews of the DVD47, but at a street price of near $300, the Oppo was an easier choice for me given the industries apparent commitment to promoting hi-res audio. Just checked Onecall and the 47 has been replaced by the 48...don't know if it has the same BM.

-Brent
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post #8 of 19
8/7/07 at 2:34pm

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
I'll try that tomorrow. I know I can switch back and forth between DD 2.0/DD 5.1/DTS, etc., but never knew, or tried doing it while dvd-a is playing. There are some things that aren't accessible, while using the 5.1 outputs, that you can normally do when using digital output. Don't remember what they are. That may be one of them. Check the manual.

For awhile, Pioneer offered a free firmware update to owner's of the 563a, because of a known problem with several dvd-a discs. You had to get it to a certified repair shop, or send it in to Pioneer. They wouldn't let us download the firmware, burn it to cd, and do the firmware update ourselves. I use mine almost everyday, and just coudn't be without that long.

I doubt your player has a mechanical or electronic problem, since so many people complained of the same thing. It was just the compromise (I guess), of having a cheap, universal player, that was pretty good for the money.



EDIT:
I tried it. The disc I played, has two high res dvd-a soundtracks on it. It also has Dolby Digital & DTS surround soundtracks. Using the "Audio" button on the remote, I could switch between the two high res tracks (5.1 & 2.0), but not the two DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 tracks.

So, the Pioneer does not allow the switching you mentioned, while playing a DVD-A disc, in Multi-Channel Mode.
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post #9 of 19
8/7/07 at 3:49pm

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

To switch DVD-A and SACD tracks you usually have to stop the player; they cannot be changed on the fly like a DVD (SACD for sure, never tried with a DVD-A).

Oppo has the 980 out now and it does 1080p for just a little more than the 970.
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post #10 of 19
8/7/07 at 11:24pm

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
Using the "Audio" button on the remote, I could switch between the two high res tracks (5.1 & 2.0), but not the two DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 tracks.
Using just the audio button, I don't know of any dvd-audio disc that allows the user to switch between DD, DTS and the hi-res tracks.

It's either DD or DTS, then if the player is in its hi-res playback mode, stereo or (if present) surround tracks.
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post #11 of 19
8/8/07 at 6:04am

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Quote:
Originally Posted by podiumman
(most DVD-A's have an alternate Dolby Digital, or PCM or even DTS track available) -- it's "stuck" on DVD-A.

Can you change yours?
I told him I would check mine, to see if it worked that way. I had never tried it, in multi-channel mode before. I guess now podiumman and I know........
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post #12 of 19
8/8/07 at 7:58pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Just to clarify -- I'm not sure we're all real clear on this business of switching from DVD-video to DVD-Audio in preferences. It definitely can not be done while any disk is playing; it has to be completely stopped to access that portion of the menu.

My problem is the switch cannot be made at all; it's stuck on DVD-A.

Dave
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post #13 of 19
8/9/07 at 9:15am

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

There is usually a way to set audio/video priority in the player's setup menu (every universal I have seen so far), as well as being able to configure SACDs for 2ch SACD, M/C SACD or CD. If it is set to "audio" for DVD-A it will treat discs as if they are DVD-As and if set to "video" it will treat them as if they are DVDs.
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post #14 of 19
8/9/07 at 10:28am

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Quote:
It definitely can not be done while any disk is playing; it has to be completely stopped to access that portion of the menu.
True. I just didn't mention this in my post....because I forgot!

Quote:
My problem is the switch cannot be made at all; it's stuck on DVD-A.
So when the disc is stopped, there is no option in the player's set up menu for dvd-video playback?

If it helps any, on my Pioneer DV-656A to get to that setting:

1) allow dvd-audio disc to load then push stop
2) then push SETUP button on remote
3) choose Initial Settings
4) choose Options
5) choose Dvd Playback Mode
6) choose dvd-video

NOTE! the dvd-video mode is canceled when the tray is opened.

BTW: the menu systems on our players are nearly identical.
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post #15 of 19
8/10/07 at 4:03pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Well -- now the DVD/ video/audio switching is back up again... go figure.

It occurred to me, that maybe the best thing to do is to go into the setup menu and just switch off the sub output altogether, assuming then that the bass and LFE would be rerouted to the main L/R front outputs and that the Yamaha would itself route the bass tones to the sub.

I did it, but I'm not sure it worked, I'm getting much less action from the sub (hard to tell if there's any, really, since the woofer vibrates some in sympathy with the sound waves from the main speakers [I'm gently feeling the cone to see how much it's working]) than compared to the sound in the DVD video mode (which, since it comes into the receiver via the optical cable - the Yamaha is doing all the work of splitting the sub signal from the rest).

One thing I'm wondering, and I might have to start or find a Yamaha thread to find this out for sure, is whether or not, in my multi-channel input mode, it really does split out bass signals from the main L/R front inputs and sends them to the sub.

The manual says it does not mix down for missing inputs or speakers, but then again, in the speaker setup for the receiver, it has a choice of routing bass/LFE through both main and sub. Question is, in this mode, does it mix down and send bass to the sub?

If anyone knows, again my Yamaha is a model RX-V4600
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post #16 of 19
8/10/07 at 4:20pm

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Quote:
Originally Posted by podiumman
One thing I'm wondering, and I might have to start or find a Yamaha thread to find this out for sure, is whether or not, in my multi-channel input mode, it really does split out bass signals from the main L/R front inputs and sends them to the sub.

Most receivers will not apply bass management to the multichannel input, though I don't know if your receiver is one that can. If you can adjust the speaker levels for this input separately or you may have to do it in the player.

One thing that I don't see mentioned is the simple fact that this player does not have compensation for the +10dB offset. DD/DTS has an automatic function as part of the coding to add 10dB to the LFE channel, while hires audio does not. Some players have the ability to compensate for this, like most of the newer Denons, but I am fairly certain the 563 does not. However, you can adjust the speaker levels in the player to compensate for this yourself or do what I do, which is a combination of the player's levels and adjusting the levels on the receiver side also to bring the sub's output level to where it matches the other channels. My Denon 2900 does not have a feature to compensate for the 10dB offset, but my former 2200 did have this (lower model but came out after the 2900). Some of the Denon receivers also have the ability to compensate for this 10dB offset on the multichannel inputs.
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post #17 of 19
8/11/07 at 9:53am
Thread Starter 

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

Oh great, now I have another issue. In the part of the setup for speaker installation in the pio, it's got it where you can choose each speaker's size, small, large, or none. Anyone have any problem with this?

For some reason, now, when I change the size of one speaker, it's changing the size of all of them at the same time, and won't let me change them individually.

This brings up another question anyway, if your receiver has setup for speaker installation, should you set everything in the DVD player to large speakers and let the receiver sort out crossover points, or should you set both the DVD and receiver to small speakers for surrounds, center, etc?

Also, both have set up for speaker distance; my Yamaha sets distance (ostensibly) automatically with the YPAO, so should I set the DVD player to zero distance (right now the default distance on the pioneer is ten feet)?
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post #18 of 19
8/11/07 at 11:26am
Thread Starter 

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

OH GREAT!! NOW the DVD/ video/audio switching is not functional again... go figure.
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post #19 of 19
8/11/07 at 12:12pm

Re: Subwoofer issue with Pioneer DV-563A player

You set the speaker distances, in the Pioneer, to what the distance is, for each speaker. When you use the Multi-Channel mode (Analog), for dvd-a and sacd, and maybe a movie, the Pioneer is doing the processing. When you use the DVD mode (digital outputs), the receiver is doing the processing. So, it needs to be set, on both pieces of equipment.

You understand why you set speakers to "large" or "small"?
small w/subwoofer
large w/o subwoofer

You may just have a hardware problem with the DVD/video/audio switching.
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