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Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

post #1 of 22
7/27/07 at 8:45am
Thread Starter 
Thought some of you might be interested in this!

On the heels of Star Trek TOS being remastered for HD, testing for Star Trek The Next Generation for HD was done. Some of you may have heard the news from Comic Con at the Trekmovie.com site where the owner chatted with CBS about what's coming after TOS is done.

They apparantly did a test for one episode and looked at "upressing" the effects to see if they all needed to be redone via CGI. Nothing has been decided, it's still very early days. Nothing about this version on discs or broadcast.
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post #2 of 22
7/27/07 at 10:57am

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

So they have the original film elements from all of the filming of the entire series? I was under the impression that everything post TNG (excluding, perhaps, Enterprise) was filmed on 35mm and then transferred to video for all the post.

I'm guessing it was still edited on film - to keep from having to transfer every shot and take to video - and then the final cut was sent to video for the special effects and everything like that.

An HD version would be incredible if they can do a transfer from the film and do whatever they need to get the special effect shots in there.
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post #3 of 22
7/27/07 at 11:39am

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

It was done post on video. All FX were rendered at 480i SD video.
Would take years to do.
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post #4 of 22
7/27/07 at 12:07pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack
It was done post on video. All FX were rendered at 480i SD video.
Would take years to do.

LOL poor Dave. I lose count how many times you have had to say that.
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post #5 of 22
7/27/07 at 12:08pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

yep, it never gets through...




And if CBSDigital (Paramount) wants to charge $217.99 for these sets anyways...?!?
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post #6 of 22
7/27/07 at 12:32pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack
It was done post on video. All FX were rendered at 480i SD video.
Would take years to do.

Maybe add that to your sig, Dave?
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post #7 of 22
7/27/07 at 6:36pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

My guess is that they (Paramount/CBS/whatever entity now owns the rights) are trying to see if these can be remastered on the cheap, without having to go through all of the processes Dave has detailed. If the end result is still unacceptable (which wouldn't surprise me), I think it unlikely we'd see TNG in Hi-Def anytime soon. Just my two cents.

Mark
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post #8 of 22
7/27/07 at 7:02pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

From that the original poster said it sound like they are trying to up rez it to HD. If they do that with the first two seasons in particular its going to look really bad. The first two seasons were edited on an analog system and there is a lots of chroma noise in the picture. Not to mention lots of aliasing.

As Dave said, it would take years to re master this whole show in HD, re edit, and re composite all of the effects shots.

Doug
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post #9 of 22
7/27/07 at 7:37pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

Douglas is right.
Uprezzing would look no better than watching the SDdvds on an upscaling player like an oppo etc...

That's far from being real HD. If this trend begins then we're in trouble. There are many shows like this done in the 80's, 90's like Buffy, The X files etc... that truly deserve the proper treatment if they are going to do it. Do it right or not at all. Fake HD? Not for me.

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post #10 of 22
7/27/07 at 8:44pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

There is an interesting possibility.

I believe the first couple of seasons were done using the "Edit-Droid" system, based on recordable LaserDiscs. This system was also used for film editing, using the LD framecode to correspond to codes printed on the film. Thus, the cut could be assembled on video and then executed automatically on the film elements.

If Paramount had the framecode feature working, it might be possible to go back and assemble a film cut. Since they were editing for video, I doubt they actually took the necessary steps.
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post #11 of 22
7/27/07 at 8:49pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

The real question:

Selling 3 box sets DVDs of TOS is one thing, but selling 7 box sets of DVDs of TNG on eBay are going to be something else entirely. Does the improvement even warrant the bother?

In any even I have a PS3 so I have to wait for a BD version anyways, and CBS/Paramount appears to prefer DVD/HD combos first primarily right now anyways.
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post #12 of 22
7/27/07 at 9:13pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

Honestly I'd rather have SD-DVD TNG with original effects than a new HD version with "new and improved" effects. Especially considering we'd be looking at an asking price of some 200$+/season.
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post #13 of 22
7/28/07 at 8:22am

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

I really don't think TNG warrants improving the effects by replacing the originals with CGI, just rescanning the elements in HD and then digitally compositing them. Kind of like what they did with the Snowspeeder vs. Walkers sequence in The Empire Strikes Back.

The model work itself is quite good I think. Its just the fact that it was composited on video that makes it a bit dicey.

But again this would be a huge project and I have my doubts about CBS/Paramount sinking that much money into it.

Doug
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post #14 of 22
7/28/07 at 9:18am
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

Yes, let's not got too far ahead of the cart! A CBS spokesperson simply said they were testing with one episode the possibility of bringing TNG to HD. One test was to see if the effects, that were done on video, could stand up to being "uprezed". If not, one option was CGI. But they have made no decisions, no plans.
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post #15 of 22
7/28/07 at 10:03am

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

Well its not just a matter of the effects. The whole show was completed on video and would have to be re scanned and re edited.

Doug
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post #16 of 22
7/28/07 at 11:02am

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

unless they wind up just uprezzing and futzing with that.

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post #17 of 22
7/28/07 at 12:22pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

Dave (or anyone else), do you know what percentage of the elements for TNG's model shots were shot on 35mm? Was it all shot on film and then composited on video, or did they try to shoot some of the FX passes on video?

If all the elemnts were indeed shot on film, a true HD version of TNG wouldn't need much new CGI (except for the rotoscoped stuff, like shield bubbles and phaser beams). Of course I don't think TNG is as sacred as TOS, so I certainly wouldn't mind some balls-to-wall new CG sequences
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post #18 of 22
7/28/07 at 12:23pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack
unless they wind up just uprezzing and futzing with that.

Hmmmmmmmmm Unless they have some magic new software, all I can say is, it will be ugly.

Doug
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post #19 of 22
7/28/07 at 12:27pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbd
Dave (or anyone else), do you know what percentage of the elements for TNG's model shots were shot on 35mm? Was it all shot on film and then composited on video, or did they try to shoot some of the FX passes on video?

If all the elemnts were indeed shot on film, a true HD version of TNG wouldn't need much new CGI (except for the rotoscoped stuff, like shield bubbles and phaser beams). Of course I don't think TNG is as sacred as TOS, so I certainly wouldn't mind some balls-to-wall new CG sequences

All of the model shots for TNG were done on 35mm film. Once the model elements were shot they were transfered to video and chroma keyed together. The only "video" effects would be the animation of things like phasers and tractor beams etc. The Christal Entity in the early episodes (not sure which season) was a very early CGI image.

Doug
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post #20 of 22
7/28/07 at 12:44pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

yep, it will look like a mess if they try to cut corners. Even the shows on DVD now look terrible when they cut to an FX shot.
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post #21 of 22
7/28/07 at 7:49pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

The effects look like hell now. The gentle curve of the main saucer has stair stepping all along the curve. You could see it 20 years ago. I have to say what they did from about season two, and onward was better then how they started. ILM did a few stock shots, not unlike what was done in the old days. Didnt take long for them to see a few stock ship shots wouldnt cut it for TNG. Thats when they went inhouse, and it works. Yesterdays Enterprise, and Best of Both Wolds, as examples, have good effects for 80s TV.
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post #22 of 22
7/28/07 at 8:55pm

Re: Star Trek TNG possible HD versions

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
The effects look like hell now. The gentle curve of the main saucer has stair stepping all along the curve. You could see it 20 years ago. I have to say what they did from about season two, and onward was better then how they started. ILM did a few stock shots, not unlike what was done in the old days. Didnt take long for them to see a few stock ship shots wouldnt cut it for TNG. Thats when they went inhouse, and it works. Yesterdays Enterprise, and Best of Both Wolds, as examples, have good effects for 80s TV.

Exactly once they switched to a digital editing system in I believe season 3 and digital compositing of the effects, the show looks pretty good. But its still not what I would call HD quality. Now like I said if they were to go back and re composite all of those model shots with today's digital compositing techniques in HD I really think even season 1 will look pretty darn good.

Of course that won't help the fact that the first two seasons color scheme and flat lighting make the inside of the ship look like a very bland hotel.

Doug
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