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THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans (UPDATE 4/19:... - Page 3

Poll Results: How would you prefer THE BOWERY BOYS to arrive on DVD?

 
  • 40% (63)
    Release them now as a "Best Of" effort with features
  • 59% (91)
    Wait for better elements to arrive for a chronological release
154 Total Votes  
post #61 of 747
8/7/07 at 4:03am
Thread Starter 

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Joe,

Not a problem. I understand there have been bootlegs out there
and most certainly representative of the demand for an official release.

I also agree that we were essentially promised these titles two years
ago after a demand already existed. Now to wait another 2 years?!

I think Warner has already made a fair proposal about releasing
these titles immediately at a budget price that represents the overall
presentation quality of these titles. Most of you that have seen the
TV airings feel that the prints look darn good. If Warner is so concerned
about putting out something that they feel is substandard then I would
propose a comment be placed on the packaging or content itself prior to
the film regarding the fact that the transfer represents the best elements
currently available to the studio.
Reply
post #62 of 747
8/7/07 at 1:01pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
Joe,

Not a problem. I understand there have been bootlegs out there
and most certainly representative of the demand for an official release.

I also agree that we were essentially promised these titles two years
ago after a demand already existed. Now to wait another 2 years?!

I think Warner has already made a fair proposal about releasing
these titles immediately at a budget price that represents the overall
presentation quality of these titles. Most of you that have seen the
TV airings feel that the prints look darn good. If Warner is so concerned
about putting out something that they feel is substandard then I would
propose a comment be placed on the packaging or content itself prior to
the film regarding the fact that the transfer represents the best elements
currently available to the studio.

I voted Chronological because I believe this is one series that needs to be released that way to see the change in supporting characters and the change in tone of the series. Also I would be afraid of a Best of stopping at one volume and everyone has a different opinion on what the best films are.
At the same time if Mr. Hex is the only title holding up the release then I vote release them now in chronological order and skip Mr. Hex.
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post #63 of 747
8/7/07 at 2:07pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Korstick
Also I would be afraid of a Best of stopping at one volume and everyone has a different opinion on what the best films are.

Y'see, Randy, I would agree with you but I wonder if this is literally what Warner is proposing when they say "Best Of" sets? I am hoping they don't literally mean issuing one 'highlights' set with what they may consider to be "best" films, and then saying a long goodnight to the series.... but I'm thinking that, by "Best Of", this merely means presenting multiple sets of an assortment of films in random orders, with many more to come as the series progresses (volumes 1,2,3,4,5, etc...).
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post #64 of 747
8/8/07 at 8:15am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Karlosi
Y'see, Randy, I would agree with you but I wonder if this is literally what Warner is proposing when they say "Best Of" sets? I am hoping they don't literally mean issuing one 'highlights' set with what they may consider to be "best" films, and then saying a long goodnight to the series.... but I'm thinking that, by "Best Of", this merely means presenting multiple sets of an assortment of films in random orders, with many more to come as the series progresses (volumes 1,2,3,4,5, etc...).

But they wanted to do chronological sets from the begining and Mr. Hex is apparently the hold up so why not just release them chronological and skip Mr. Hex instead of doing them all mixed up just because of one film. That doesn't make much sense and still makes me think it will be a one set and then wait for better masters for the "real sets" deal.

Also as someone else pointed out I think a bigger problem with mixed sets would be seeing a young slip and sach playing a ganster film, then seeing a much older slip and sach acting goofy and like little kids and then seeing a film and Slip is suddenly gone and replaced by Stanley Clemens and then going back to a young slip and sach in a ganster film. Thats a bit jarring and bound to happen in more than one set if they did them all in a best of release. This series really needs a chronological release for many reasons.
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post #65 of 747
8/8/07 at 10:10am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Don't you think the majority of the people buying these are going to know that the 'boys' age will be different from the early to late films? It's not like this is going to be a mainstream release that people aren't going to understand.
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post #66 of 747
8/8/07 at 11:52am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Korstick
But they wanted to do chronological sets from the begining and Mr. Hex is apparently the hold up so why not just release them chronological and skip Mr. Hex instead of doing them all mixed up just because of one film.

Oh, I agree completely. I think that's the best way to go too, unless others get too nitpicky about missing one film that will be out of order. However, I wonder if Ron can tell us if MR. HEX is the "only" problematic film in the series, or is it just the first one WB have stumbled upon? Whatever the case, absoultely -- skip one or two chronologically problematic movies if necessary and we'll get those at a later date.

Quote:
Also as someone else pointed out I think a bigger problem with mixed sets would be seeing a young slip and sach playing a ganster film, then seeing a much older slip and sach acting goofy and like little kids and then seeing a film and Slip is suddenly gone and replaced by Stanley Clemens and then going back to a young slip and sach in a ganster film. Thats a bit jarring and bound to happen in more than one set if they did them all in a best of release. This series really needs a chronological release for many reasons.

I think chronological is the most "ideal" choice, but I still have no problem watching a 1954 "comedy" like BOWERY BOYS MEET THE MONSTERS and then settling in to a more dramatically-toned flick from 1949, like FIGHTING FOOLS. I also think we've all gotten spoiled with so many boxed sets that we tend to always "need" to watch every film series in chronological order. But while it's always the best choice, I still don't feel it's necessary with The Bowery Boys.

And come to think of it -- watching this series even chronologically, the Bowery Boys films still tend to go from comedy to drama and back to comedy again! You go from a comedy like SPOOK BUSTERS (1946) to something more dramatic like ANGELS IN DISGUISE (1949)! So I guess there is variety even in strict order of release. Either way, when catching these on TV growing up, it never mattered. You can always still choose to watch all of them on DVD how you like.
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post #67 of 747
8/8/07 at 12:05pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Elliott
Don't you think the majority of the people buying these are going to know that the 'boys' age will be different from the early to late films? It's not like this is going to be a mainstream release that people aren't going to understand.

And actually, it's not that extreme a difference between 1946 and 1956.
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post #68 of 747
8/8/07 at 12:57pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I'm curious about something:

Would you want the post 8/53 titles in their original theatrical widescreen ratio of 1.85, or would you prefer to see them full frame just as you've seen them on television for all these years?
Reply
post #69 of 747
8/8/07 at 1:12pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I'm not sure if you're talking to me Bob but I want them in widescreen.
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post #70 of 747
8/8/07 at 2:57pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Furmanek
I'm curious about something:

Would you want the post 8/53 titles in their original theatrical widescreen ratio of 1.85, or would you prefer to see them full frame just as you've seen them on television for all these years?

I don't know if you're talking to me either (I suspect you are; your post came right after mine). In a perfect world, sure - put the ones from 1953 onward in 1.85 if they were shot with that ratio in mind. I think that from a few past discussions we've had, Bob, you're under the impression that I'm against it -- but I'm only against fake matting just for the sake of 16x9 TV owners. I am a supporter of "proper OAR", and definitely when it comes to Cinemascope or other 2.35:1 processes.

Now, having said all of this, I must admit that if Warner decided to release the later Bowery Boys movies in 1.33 for whatever their reasons, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it in this case, no.
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post #71 of 747
8/9/07 at 7:25am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

My question was not directed at any one in particular. I was curious how other members of the board felt about it. I would most certainly want them in all their widescreen glory!
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post #72 of 747
8/9/07 at 7:31am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Elliott
Don't you think the majority of the people buying these are going to know that the 'boys' age will be different from the early to late films? It's not like this is going to be a mainstream release that people aren't going to understand.
They will know the difference which is why it's a problem for me. I am not a big fan of The Bowery Boys films starring Stanley Clements. I prefer the earlier ones and if I can buy them without buying the later ones that would be my preference.
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post #73 of 747
8/9/07 at 7:32am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Furmanek
My question was not directed at any one in particular. I was curious how other members of the board felt about it. I would most certainly want them in all their widescreen glory!
This is a pro-OAR site and we try to discourage those that think otherwise.
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post #74 of 747
8/9/07 at 9:04am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I agree Robert, but I can recall when some would dismiss these films as "un-important" and not deserving of OAR treatment.

I remember one discussion when I pointed out that ABBOTT AND COSTELLO MEET THE KEYSTONE KOPS should be 1.85, and how the full-frame version showed things which were not meant to be seen - such as a trampoline during a gag in a cattle car. (Somebody listed that as a "blooper" in the film!)

My pro-OAR argument was dismissed on the basis of the film not being important enough for the aspect ratio to matter.

I'm just hoping the Bowery Boys widescreen titles don't get the same dismissive treatment.
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post #75 of 747
8/9/07 at 9:29am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
They will know the difference which is why it's a problem for me. I am not a big fan of The Bowery Boys films starring Stanley Clements. I prefer the earlier ones and if I can buy them without buying the later ones that would be my preference.

I see what you're saying. I would guess Warner would release those "late" films for the last set if they are going to release "Best Of" sets. I can't imagine anyone wanting Clements over the real boys.
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post #76 of 747
8/9/07 at 10:41am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Elliott
I see what you're saying. I would guess Warner would release those "late" films for the last set if they are going to release "Best Of" sets. I can't imagine anyone wanting Clements over the real boys.

I don't think so. The history of Best Of's has always been to include what people want the most and throw in a few that they don't in order to be able sell what won't sell as well on its own. I can't imagine a Best of Set with only Clemens films.

Joe
I also wonder if Mr. Hex is the only problem film. From viewing them on TV I would think it would be somewhere between 6- 8 unless they have located better prints for some of them recently. But I would vote chronological and skip as many as they need to and then go back and release the better prints later.
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post #77 of 747
8/9/07 at 10:47am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

It depends on what Warner has planned and none of us really know. Fox didn't release the Chan's in order but at the same time they didn't throw in the Toler films just because they wouldn't sell as well as the Oland.

If Warner released a box set of ten films, two on each disc, then one or two of the Clemens titles wouldn't hurt the fact that we are getting eight others. Again, I doubt Warner would do a 50/50 on the two sides as they know what would sell.

If they released them in order then who's to say they wouldn't stop when Clemens entered since they might think they won't sell? It might be best that they release them out of order with one or two of the lesser titles thrown in with the more requested ones.
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post #78 of 747
8/9/07 at 11:00am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Korstick
I don't think so. The history of Best Of's has always been to include what people want the most and throw in a few that they don't in order to be able sell what won't sell as well on its own. I can't imagine a Best of Set with only Clemens films.

Joe
I also wonder if Mr. Hex is the only problem film. From viewing them on TV I would think it would be somewhere between 6- 8 unless they have located better prints for some of them recently. But I would vote chronological and skip as many as they need to and then go back and release the better prints later.
Which is why I don't want "Best of" releases. I want the titles released in chronological order. Off the top of my head, I think there were 48 "Bowery Boys" films made. You can start with Volume One with "In Fast Company" or "Live Wires", whichever of those two titles is the first "Bowery Boys" film along with the next 5-11 films made in order. Each volume will contain 6-12 films until you exhaust all 48 films in chronological order.

If I had my way, I would start with the "Dead End Kids" then the "East Side Kids" followed by the "Bowery Boys" which of course, would be a lot more than 48 "Bowery Boys" films, but that's my perfect world for those films. It probably won't happen due to circumstances, but you get my drift.
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post #79 of 747
8/9/07 at 12:34pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I just noticed that on the 24th TCM is showing two "Dead End Kids" films as part of their day of Ronald Reagan films.
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post #80 of 747
8/9/07 at 2:04pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Which is why I don't want "Best of" releases. I want the titles released in chronological order. Off the top of my head, I think there were 48 "Bowery Boys" films made. You can start with Volume One with "In Fast Company" or "Live Wires", whichever of those two titles is the first "Bowery Boys" film along with the next 5-11 films made in order. Each volume will contain 6-12 films until you exhaust all 48 films in chronological order.

That's how I feel. But keep in mind that those last films not featuring Leo Gorcey, and instead having Huntz Hall with Stanley Clements (and ultimately Huntz Hall solo), only amount to the last 7 of these 48. So you're also likely to get some non-Gorcey titles in the last "chronological set" you're buying along with Leo Gorcey's last few movies in the series ANYWAY.

I think the most popular vote here seems to be an option that is not really presented in the poll above:

"Option #3 -- Release them chronologically but skip the occasional troublesome film if no proper elements can be located at this time; return to those at a later date."

Unfortunately, this isn't exactly listed as an option!

Quote:
If I had my way, I would start with the "Dead End Kids" then the "East Side Kids" followed by the "Bowery Boys" which of course, would be a lot more than 48 "Bowery Boys" films, but that's my perfect world for those films. It probably won't happen due to circumstances, but you get my drift.

I get your drift, but those often-PD-dupey-Eastside Kids films are even harder to locate in pristine elements than when they officially became "The Bowery Boys" in 1946!
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post #81 of 747
8/9/07 at 2:29pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Korstick
The history of Best Of's has always been to include what people want the most and throw in a few that they don't in order to be able sell what won't sell as well on its own.

I'm not specifically asking you, Randy, but your comments made me think of something....
I don't know how many here are already familiar with the Bowery Boys comedies, but for those who aren't I think you'll find that, once you start watching them in order or otherwise, they're all pretty similar.
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post #82 of 747
8/9/07 at 3:17pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Karlosi




I get your drift, but those often-PD-dupey-Eastside Kids films are even harder to locate in pristine elements than when they officially became "The Bowery Boys" in 1946!
Which is why I said it's my perfect world and due to circumstances this probably won't happen.
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post #83 of 747
8/9/07 at 3:26pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Karlosi
I'm not specifically asking you, Randy, but your comments made me think of something....
I don't know how many here are already familiar with the Bowery Boys comedies, but for those who aren't I think you'll find that, once you start watching them in order or otherwise, they're all pretty similar.

I agree Joe as I'm a big fan and like all their films. I also like all the Abbott and Costello films and all the Laurel and Hardy films but there are definately quite a few people who like all these comedy teams but do not like certain eras by the team and I think we are talking about those people.

Which makes you correct Option 3 is what most seem to want here and I wish it was available as I do want them now but not really in Best Of sets. I prefer watching all comedy teams in chronological order but I feel the Bowery Boys are more important to be viewed this way than the others for the previously stated reasons.
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post #84 of 747
8/9/07 at 10:17pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
It depends on what Warner has planned and none of us really know. Fox didn't release the Chan's in order but at the same time they didn't throw in the Toler films just because they wouldn't sell as well as the Oland.

Not to sidetrack this discussion, but Fox has indeed released the Chans in rough chronological order. SECRET was held back for Vol 3 because it didn't fit the theme of Vol 2. BLACK CAMEL was added to Vol 3 only because they were able to license it from Warners. The Toler films feature some of the best in the series and should sell quite well.

Regarding the Stanley Clements films..he's not Gorcey but these films aren't, in my opinion, the disasters that their reputation would make them out to be. At least he was sober when he was playing his part. In any case, these films still have the very funny Huntz Hall who was always my favorite BB anyway. I liken these latter films to the Fox era Laurel and Hardy features. They had terrible reputations but when Fox released their box sets awhile back, these films were given a fresh evaluation and many found them to be much funnier than previously thought.

To Bob F's question...if their OAR was widescreen, then yes, it would be preferable to release them that way. Will it be a deal breaker if they are presented full frame? No. I'll admit that it seems counter intuitive to watch a BB or A&C movie (or 3 Stooges short) in widescreen. One just doesn't associate them with the widescreen era.

Although I think a DEK collection is unlikely I would also welcome one. The films drifted into B-territory after ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES but they're not bad and Warners has their usual familar faces sprinkled throughout. Getting high quality, uncut East Side Kids would be near Utopia, but I'm not holding my breath.

Steve
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post #85 of 747
8/9/07 at 11:01pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Not to sidetrack this discussion, but Fox has indeed released the Chans in rough chronological order. SECRET was held back for Vol 3 because it didn't fit the theme of Vol 2. BLACK CAMEL was added to Vol 3 only because they were able to license it from Warners. The Toler films feature some of the best in the series and should sell quite well.

Films were still moved to fit a theme so they weren't in a direct order per say, which is why I brought them up since there are two options here and it seems like what Fox did could be a third option for Warner and the BB.
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post #86 of 747
8/10/07 at 3:22am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve...O
Not to sidetrack this discussion, but Fox has indeed released the Chans in rough chronological order. SECRET was held back for Vol 3 because it didn't fit the theme of Vol 2. BLACK CAMEL was added to Vol 3 only because they were able to license it from Warners.

True, but it does show that it's acceptable to skip films in a series and still basically release them in a somewhat chronological order. Another thing - Warner should keep in mind that the fans interested in acquiring the Bowery Boys movies will purchase them any way they can get them, however they're distributed.

Quote:
Regarding the Stanley Clements films..he's not Gorcey but these films aren't, in my opinion, the disasters that their reputation would make them out to be. At least he was sober when he was playing his part. In any case, these films still have the very funny Huntz Hall who was always my favorite BB anyway. I liken these latter films to the Fox era Laurel and Hardy features. They had terrible reputations but when Fox released their box sets awhile back, these films were given a fresh evaluation and many found them to be much funnier than previously thought.

I agree that seeing those later Laurel and Hardy films was a revelation and I also found them funnier than I'd always heard they were. I also think you make a good point that the Stanley Clements movies are still okay and - as you say - they still include Huntz Hall.

I didn't want to get into the "sober" thing with Leo Gorcey, but since you brought it up I should mention that you have to see him in CRASHING LAS VEGAS, which was his last BB film... Leo is visibly inebriated throughout that one and it's fun to watch just for that alone.

Quote:
To Bob F's question...if their OAR was widescreen, then yes, it would be preferable to release them that way. Will it be a deal breaker if they are presented full frame? No. I'll admit that it seems counter intuitive to watch a BB or A&C movie (or 3 Stooges short) in widescreen. One just doesn't associate them with the widescreen era.

Well said.
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post #87 of 747
8/10/07 at 3:33am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
This is a pro-OAR site and we try to discourage those that think otherwise.

If these were originally presented in WS, then of course that should be preserved in home video also. I have noticed that sometimes people want certain dubbing (e.g. Godzilla-films, even when it´s not the original track) etc since that´s how they saw the film "back in the days". As a film buff, I have never (truly) understood that. I mean I have seen Aliens maybe 5 times in 4:3 (also cut) "back in the days" when I was young (even in 4:3, it blew me away) and I never want to see the film in that way anymore. OAR all the way.

But anyway, back to the subject.
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post #88 of 747
8/10/07 at 7:14am

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jari K
If these were originally presented in WS, then of course that should be preserved in home video also. I have noticed that sometimes people want certain dubbing (e.g. Godzilla-films, even when it´s not the original track) etc since that´s how they saw the film "back in the days". As a film buff, I have never (truly) understood that. I mean I have seen Aliens maybe 5 times in 4:3 (also cut) "back in the days" when I was young (even in 4:3, it blew me away) and I never want to see the film in that way anymore. OAR all the way.

But anyway, back to the subject.

I agree. The films in this series filmed for Widescreen should be presented that way. Hopefully Warners will not let us down the way Universal did with the Abbott and Costello's and their Sci-Fi set. Since Sony is doing their upcoming 50's Sci-Fi films in proper Widescreen ratio hopefully Warner will not drop the ball here especially since they are interested in fan feedback.
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post #89 of 747
8/10/07 at 12:33pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

When was the last time Warner released something outside the proper AR??? I doubt we'd have anything to worry about here unless it was just impossible to do.
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post #90 of 747
8/10/07 at 1:35pm

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Korstick
I agree. The films in this series filmed for Widescreen should be presented that way. Hopefully Warners will not let us down the way Universal did with the Abbott and Costello's and their Sci-Fi set. Since Sony is doing their upcoming 50's Sci-Fi films in proper Widescreen ratio hopefully Warner will not drop the ball here especially since they are interested in fan feedback.

I'll still take these relatively "minor" Bowery Boys films however I can get them, though 1.85 where applicable would be nice. It's not that I'm not an advocate for proper AR, but I just feel a lot is being asked for here. We'd be very fortunate to get all 48 films, period.
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