THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans (UPDATE 4/19:... - Page 13

Yes, you have the chronology correct.  The Dead End Kids were MGM and Warners films while the latter two series were Monograms.  Yes, Bernard Gorcey (Louis) was Leo's father.  He was one of the few people that could make Leo look tall standing side by side :)

Looking back on this thread we are now 5 years since Warners first indicated plans for a release (2005).    Hopefully the news from last year (pressed retail releases commencing later in 2010) is still valid.  If not, my fear is that these will never get released legitimately and bootleggers will have a field day using the TCM airings that start next month.   

There were basically four separate series. Dead End Kids, Little Tough Guys, East Side Kids, and Bowery Boys. Billy Halop was the main star in the Little Tough Guy films, Leo Gorcey did not appear in those. Call A Messenger is a pretty good Little Tough Guys entry, You're Not So Tough is a good one too. The Little Tough Guy films are considered the weakest of the four series, but overall it's not a bad series. In the last film of that series, Keep Em Slugging, Halop had left the series and Bobby Jordan played in the lead role. It is the one and only time Bobby Jordan had the lead role in a Dead End Kids, Little Tough Guys, East Side Kids, or Bowery Boys movie.

There was also a short lived series of three films in 1946-47 called the Gas House Kids. Billy Halop appeared in the first film only. The other entries in the series were Gas House Kids Go West and Gas House Kids In Hollywood. Carl "Alfalfa" Switzer appeared in these films, Bennie Bartlett was in them too.

Wow - it does get complicated doesn't it? I had to look those names up to see who they were. I recognize Bily Halop as the kid who was always the defacto leader of the gang in the early movies. He usually had an older sister tryng to keep him on the stright and narrow. He and Bobby Jordan seemed like they were the leads and Leo Grocey usually played the darker character, the snitch or the unrepentant little hood who would inevitably cause trouble for the gang. I'm basing this on 'Dead End' and all the Warner Gangster films I've seen them in so far...How he got to be leader I'll never know!

Although it didn't start off that way in the Dead End Kids films for Warner's, Leo Gorcey gradually gained a reputation as being the most convincing actor among the six lads who comprised the Dead End Kids. Leo eventually was signed to his own series The East Side Kids which later evolved into the Bowery Boys. Leo did not appear in the initial entry of the East Side Kids series, also titled East Side Kids. Leo Gorcey and Bobby Jordan came on board for the second film, Boys Of The City.

Anyone know where I can get (any kind of copy) of Spook Chasers? I have looked high and low online and everywhere else. I am not opposed to paying for it, but I don't want to have to join some torrent site. Any help would be appreciated. I'm starting to get desperate. Dangerously so.

*twitch*

No, but I have the one sheet movie poster in my home theater.

Just a reminder that, starting next Saturday, TCM will be running all of the Bowery Boys films in order.  Hopefully this is part of the strategy to increase awareness and marketability of these titles.  It will be quite interesting to see what kind of shape these are in given that WHV has put a release on the back burner for half a decade now pending the location of better prints.

I'm kinda fearing the opposite that this maybe warners answer for the Bowery Boys and if they do still release them we may only get one set now because airing them on TCM will most certainly cut the potential buyers in half. It will be nice to see if they did much with the prints but I'm not holding my breath. I have these recorded on VHS from the last TCM run to compare and I guess I will keep these on DVR but its dissapointing to just get these occasional TV runs and never the DVD's.

Yes, I want the officially released DVDs from Warner. I'm still going to be watching TCM and recording them, but that's no substitute for "the real thing" to me. Warner - if you're reading this - I'd still buy all the films on commercial DVD no matter what. But please release them. 

I agree, The question is WHAT prints TCM is airring - the old tv prints,or the new restored and cleaned up for future DVD release prints?

Randy's point is well taken and is something I didn't want to say out loud out of concern of jinxing the releases.

In this age of DVR and home recordings WHV is running a calculated risk in airing these films on a popular network.  There will be a segment of the target market that will "make do" with the recordings from TCM especially since the retail releases have been delayed year after year and there is now some understandable skepticism that they will come out at all. 

I will still buy any official retail releases but will be filling my DVR "just in case".

I wonder if these airing on TCM becuase the restoration was partly paid out of TCM's budget - I know it's one hand putting funds into the other.

I also wonder if they will be released under the TCM Banner like the Charlie Chans?

Some of the Warner prints are at least one generation removed from the Allied Artists originals. BOWERY BATTALION, for example, had to be reconstructed because not all of the 35mm reels were printable. Warner had to fill in with dupe 16mm footage, so the picture and sound quality varied sharply throughout. For some reason the original Monogram title sequence was unavailable, and Warner used the titles from an Allied Artists reissue.

This patching and piecing may have been what caused the delay in preparing new video masters. We should remember that the Warner people have had to go through an awful lot of film: 48 films multiplied by six or seven reels of picture, and another six or seven reels of soundtrack. And if the elements are damaged, incomplete, or missing, as with BOWERY BATTALION, that complicates the restoration process even more. 

Warner is taking really heroic measures here, and I applaud the effort. We can be thankful that all 48 Bowery Boys features do exist in complete form, and if some of the film elements have deteriorated in recent years, Warner can always fall back on the broadcast masters that TCM aired in 2000. 

Thanks, Warner and TCM. Looking forward to the DVD releases.

-- Scott MacGillivray

I though they've rounded up better elements to work from? 

I'll buy the official releases too (as I've said above) yet I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who's also anxious for the BB films on DVD, and he did make a good point. He was saying that now he'll be watching all the films as they air on TCM, so when the actual DVDs are released (as we hope they will be - sooner rather than later) it's gonna be kind of anti-climactic, going back and RE-WATCHING these movies on DVD's after having already seen them (many for the first time in years) on TCM. We were both kind of hoping our re-discovery would be through Warner's brand new DVD releases. We were all set to get together and have "Bowery Boys Marathons" with the DVD releases, but not so now that we'll be overdosed from the TCM broadcasts.

And yeah, there may be some fans who'll "make do" with the TV broadcasts. Maybe even some BB newbies that may feel they've seen enough from TCM and decide they're not worth buying on DVD.

I'm wondering if Ron Epstein may be able to fill us in on Warner's take of this whole situation. Is there a method to their madness, so to speak? Are these TCM broadcasts a calculated move, or just a coincidence and the DVDs are still a go?

Well, today's airing of LIVE WIRE on TCM wasn't bad looking - not 100% sure if it was a new transfer or not, but it sounded great (Especially for a monogram!) and looked relativley clean.

Thank you TCM

 My DVR didnt record it today (for some reason). Live Wire shows up as airing on 3/13. Weird. Any idea if they're airing it again sometime this week?

I thought LIVE WIRES was a good entry to kick off the series (I don't think I've seen that one before). Print looked good.

One problem - and a really annoying one - was that I set my VCR timer while I was away, and during the middle of the movie someone called my house. My wife has our cable TV set so anytime someone phones we get to see their name and number flashed across the top of the TV screen!!!! So this becomes a permanent marker on my copy of the film . That really made me p.o'd.

Hey Warner - please just release these films to DVD so all these complications could be avoided...
Edited by Joe Karlosi - 3/8/10 at 3:46am

Just watched it this morning and was pleasantly surprised when my ten-year-old insisted on finishing it with me.  I had started the movie with him in the room and let it play for about 20 minutes until my kid decided he wanted breakfast.  When he was done eating, he ran back upstairs and asked if we could finish the movie.

I'm personally glad they're going this whether it's because they don't plan on releasing them official or if they're just wanting fresh eyes to see them for a possible release. 

I do find it rather funny that TCM/Warner is getting bashed on certain forums because someones VCR doesn't record them or they're showing them too early in the morning.  Heck, I read one guy who has been bitching for years about wanting to see them and now he's boycotting them because they're not in primetime!!!

Well, Michael, coming from your perspective I can understand why you'd be perfectly content to see these films on TCM; after all, you now get a chance to sample all these later Bowery Boys movies for the first time to decide for yourself how you feel about them, and if you even feel a need to own them. Maybe just getting off-the-air copies instead of having to buy or rent DVDs will be good enough for you at any rate, but for those of us who already know many of the films and want them released on official DVDs, it's a risk, in our eyes. 

Aren't you going just a little overboard by using the term "TCM/Warner bashing"? People should be allowed to voice their concerns. Let's be fair ... Warner has indeed been talking about releasing these 48 films for YEARS now already, and I personally feel it's about time and am dying to get my hands on them.  You also should consider that not everyone who wants to see these films actually has TCM as part of their cable setup (for many years my cable company didn't even offer it as part of their package).  And yes, VCR's can go wrong. There's only ONE showing of each of these films -- and if you forget to set your timer, or the machine screws up, or anything goes wrong, you miss the chance to record the movie. I don't understand the guy who won't watch the films because they're on early instead of prime time; I mean, he can record them and watch them at night, can't he? But that's his choice. 

Having these films playing on TCM is undoubtedly "better than not being able to get them at all," I certainly would say that. But it's hardly a substitute for official DVD releases and it's kind of a primitive step backwards these days.

Yes people can voice whatever problems they have with something.  If someone wants to boycott the showings because they're not in primetime that is their right.  It's also their right to boycott them because no official releases are out there.  With that said, GREED and THE BIG PARADE still aren't on DVD. 

Having them in some form is better than nothing.  If Warner came here and said official releases are never going to happen and it's TCM or nothing, I'm sure people would take the TCm airings.  If they said official discs aren't possible but they'd be available through the Archive program, people would have to accept it.  People can't get what they want and there are those waiting for many, many films that are never going to get released and can't possibly be seen.  For many people, the option of seeing The Bowery Boys was impossible because they weren't out there in any form.  Now they are.
Edited by Michael Elliott - 3/8/10 at 7:43pm

I hope all of them look and sound this good - and when they get around to the films shot in widescreen,they air in widescreen :)

At this point we don't even know how long these weekly TCM airings will run. Hopefully until we can get all 48 films, but who knows?

Yeah the last time I got them on VHS from TCM in the late 90's they oddly stopped showing them after film# 43 and didn't show the final 5.
I scanned through Live Wires haven't had a chance to watch it yet but it did look better to me then the VHS copy I have but I'm not positive if this is because of better broadcasting capabilities since 1998 and being recorded digitally vs. VHS or if its really a better print. I'll know for sure with some of the latter ones coming up. Bowery Buckaroos for one has always looked really dark on the official VHS and TV prints so that will be an indication if these are new cleaned up prints or not.
I still hope we get a DVD annoucement soon and hope these TV runs don't kill it. I understand exactly where you are coming from Joe with watching the TV airings killing the DVD watching buzz. I was thinking the same thing and its why I haven't watched it yet but I know I will have to soon.

I missed last weeks airing on TCM, but I watched part of the 2nd one this morning. About 10 minutes into it, I thought to myself, if I'm going to buy the Warner set, I'd rather see them on DVD. Maybe they'll be in better condition and I want to be savor seeing them for the first time in a long, long time.

Come on WB, I got the cold hard cash to buy me some Bowery!!!

Unfortunately there was a big drop off in A/V quality between LIVE WIRES and IN FAST COMPANY.  IFC was still quite watchable but definitely a step down so it's hard to say if this was an old master or the best that WHV could find. A major test will be in a couple of weeks when Mr. Hex airs.  WHV found the original negative for that title so we'll be able to guage from the TCM airing whether they're using new masters or not.

I think it was an old master - I can't beleive this is how it looks after a fresh transfer and clean up!

Live Wires did look good and could be remastered but In Fast Company was definately the old and un-mastered print so its hard to say if TCM has new prints or not at this point. They just may have decided to show the prints they have because they haven't shown them in awhile and this may have nothing to do with a possible DVD release.

I seem to recall early in the thread that Warner said they didn't have any trouble locating good prints until they got to MR. HEX. If that's the case, it would mean that  their copy of IN FAST COMPANY (for the DVD release) is quite good.