THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans (UPDATE 4/19:... - Page 12

Right now The Bowery Boys may not be as well-known as The Three Stooges, but then again right now Harold Lloyd is not as hot or well-known as Adam Sandler. So what? The films still need to come out, and I think a BB Collection will do well enough, especially if it's promoted right. I know plenty of people who know, remember, and like The Bowery Boys ... though they're all over the age of 40, and they recall them from being on TV when they were younger. Which is why I have always said it's important for these movies to be released as soon as possible, not later.  We'll also get a share of interested younger people to try out the comedy team, but the hardcore audience are older people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s, who aren't getting any younger while waiting.

Growing up in New York in the 1970s I can tell you that while The Three Stooges are immensely popular right now, they also went through a real dry spell on TV in the 1970's ... they just were not shown until WPIX brought them back in 1979 and butchered them . But meanwhile, in the '70s the Bowery Boys were regularly shown on TV constantly, even in a weekly showcase called "Eastside Comedy".  Similarly, Abbott & Costello were shown every Sunday morning and they were a permanent fixture for kids in those days; however, Abbott & Costello today are nowhere to be seen on most regular TV stations. 

My point is, it's all relative. And if Warner's reading this I hope they don't get discouraged in any way by some of the "nobody knows the Bowery Boys" comments. How many 21st Century younger people do you think really know Mr. Moto or Charlie Chan today? And yet those box sets by Fox did well. Don't listen to the negatives, WB. 

Let them voice their skepticism.  It's a free forum here.  Unfortunately they just don't base it on any kind of informed consensus.  It only tells me that these individuals are just not knowledgeable about classic film series that have devout cult fan followings.

Besides, I relish the opportunity to say, "I told you so!"

Is it necessary for me to reiterate that the original 6 BOWERY BOYS VHS tape releases completely sold out and are now (expensive) collector's items?!

I think that The Bowery Boys are much better known than Harold Lloyd among the younger generations.

Are Abbott and Costello any more popular or better known with these people?   Yet Universal Studios Home Entertainment has continued to release and rerelease their films on DVD. 

Classic screen comedy teams (and comedians) are generically classic comedy and The Bowery Boys rightfully fit in there with Laurel and Hardy, The Marx Brothers, Abbott and Costello, The Three Stooges, Martin and Lewis, W.C. Fields, Bob Hope et el.

What is also being overlooked is that aspect of some vintage entertainment that has the unique quality of entertaining (and appealing to) generation after generation.

Jeff T.
Edited by JeffT. - 10/23/09 at 7:38am

Well said JeffT and Joe.
Let me add I think its pointless to suggest that these won't sell unless they are on TV channels like spike. If they were most younger viewers would just immediately change the channel because some "old black and white movie" is on. Younger viewers either already like old movies and old comedy teams or they don't you can't force them on them on TV there are too many viewing options today for that to be possible. If they like old comedy teams they will research more and seek out the films that are available which is why the bowery boys will sell once they are out. When I was young and started collecting old movies on VHS in the early 80's I was a big fan of Abbott and Costello and after purchasing those titles I started looking up other comedy teams of the era and purchasing them. I did not need to be shown the films randomly on TV.

Also I know this is a long thread and some are new to it but if you read through it you will see there is no question of whether they will release all 48 or not. The reason we don't have any releases now is they are waiting to find better prints of a few films so that they can release all 48 films. The only question is whether the release of all 48 films still happens on DVD or the archives. Hopefully it is on DVD in several box sets.

I just don't get why the Bowery Boys would be money in the bank. They are fairly obscure at best, and practically invisible in the UK.

Not dissing them or anything, but I wouldn't expect them to sell on the level some posters here suggest. A 4-film set is a good way to find out - not too expensive to put off novices, but at least something out of the gate.

Actually your wording is somewhat imprecise and what should be said is whether THE BOWERY BOYS films series will be in the "condition" that people would like them to be.

This is what could (conceivably) spoil it for potential consumers.

In some instances Warner Brothers Home Entertainment is not renowned for utilizing fully restored and digitally remastered source elements.  A good example of this is the disappointing THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN tv series DVD releases which was a big letdown after such an agonizingly long wait for the first season (1952-53) DVD set.

However it can be hit-and-miss with Warner Brothers.  The three Allied Artists 1950s SF B-film classics ATTACK OF THE 50 FT. WOMAN (1958), QUEEN OF OUTER SPACE (1958) and THE GIANT BEHEMOTH (1959) were all in excellent condition.

I was very happy with the anamorphic widescreen video transfer for WORLD WITHOUT END (1956) so just who can rightly predict what condition THE BOWERY BOYS films will be in?!

To reiterate if Warner Brothers invests the time and effort to fully restore and digitally remaster THE BOWERY BOYS film series then this would give this lucrative 48 film property renewed life in tv syndication once again ultimately paying for the expense.

I was all for a "Best of the Bowery Boys" DVD sampler but this was also overruled for a choronological complete film series DVD release.

Lastly, if the people in the U.K. have absolutely no access to THE BOWERY BOYS film series than that only makes the impending (?) DVD release in North American of this thoroughly enjoyable and highly entertaining movie property all the more desirable for many of your fellow countrymen I am sure.

Don't take my word for anything here is a sample of just what we have all been talking about:

www.youtube.com/watch

Jeff T.

Robert Osborne is the chief architect of the disastrous direction Warner Home Video has been following in marketing its catalog? Really? Can you elaborate please?

The primary film library of TCM comes from Warner Brothers which owns this all film specialty tv service.

Take the time to watch the channel.  There's Mr. Osborne fronting for "The Bette Davis Collection, "The Joan Crawford Collection" "The Nora Shearer Collection" or "The Barbara Stanwick Collection."  Just who do you think is inspiring Warner Brothers the idea (or notion) to market these particular films?!  These are a reflection of his own personal tastes and preferences.

These may well be great actresses in their day and critically acclaimed films but if there is anything suspect about what would be of interest (or in this instance disinterest) to the today's "younger" aged DVD consumer demographic it is surely these.

Someone will undoubtedly argue that there are younger classic DVD collectors who are actually buying these box sets but unfortunately both the AMAZON.COM (U.S.) and AMAZON.CA (Canada) online retail sales ranks just don't reflect outstanding numbers.  And frankly I think these are an excellent indicator of overall sales.

And at least what is being reported by one of the Warner Brothers Home Entertainment representatives online (which was addressed in one of these film discussion threads) DVD films sales have NOT been good.  Well you can plainly see the reason why.  Nobody but nobody is buying these things!

More revelently to this discussion thread I would like further information on what other Bowery Boys films are not in satisfactory shape.  Can more specific information be provided on the actual titles just to give us a more complete understanding.

Or with the recently reported discovery of the new 35mm print elements has this problem now been entirely resolved?

Jeff T. 

Please this is nonsense about Robert Osborne because he's not a Warner executive, but just a television host for TCM.  Decisions regarding marketing of titles is made at the executive level with input from their respective staffs. 




Crawdaddy

Not to mention the fact that he isn't the one that sets the broadcasting schedule for TCM.  If he has an agenda to push, it would be helpful to have some actual control over what is being shown.

Robert Osborne gets exactly one evening per month to select 3-4 movies of his choosing for airing on TCM.  Other than that he has absolutely nothing to do with any decisions over what gets broadcast or released on DVD.  I have seen him promote a variety of DVD releases, even those from other studios besides WB, all in the name of being a on air host for the network. 

The illustration provided of what DVD sets he chooses to promote was narrowed down in such a way as to suggest that some may have another agenda regarding Osborne and his "preferences." Whether that was intended or not, the reality is that Osborne carries no clout with anyone over DVD releases other than that which a viewer chooses to give him.

A&C, L&H, Marx, 3S, M&L and Bob Hope are on television each month and getting new fans each month who would be willing to fork over some cash to buy movies.  These people are common figures in American history in some sorts.  The Bowery Boys are not.  They're films aren't even considered very good so comparing them is pretty much apples and oranges.

You say "some" aren't knowledgeable about classic films so let me ask you this.  Why is it that only six titles have been released the past three decades?  If these are such hot sellers then you'd think Warner would have released more to VHS or would have released them to DVD already. 

You're gettin' kinda rough there, ain't ya, mac? Pretty broad generalization you're making, too. I guess you got some kinda evidence to back that up?

Jeff T. was comparing "classic-era" comedians (Hope, A&C, etc.) to other "classic-era" comedians (BBoys). Sounds like oranges and oranges to me. What you're objecting to is a matter of "degree", not a matter of "kind".
Edited by BrianRi - 10/26/09 at 1:14am

Yeah if you don't like the films you don't have to purchase them but don't keep dissing people that want them and act like your starting a campaign for Warners to not release the Bowery Boys at all. I remember for years a few in this thread speaking against the bowery boys release campaigning for studios to release their 40's and 50's horror and sci-fi titles. Most of those are now out. Most of them didn't play on TV anymore for them to receive new audiences, most of them are not considered to be any better films than the Bowery Boys films and many of them did not sell well on DVD but that didn't stop these same individuals from continually campaigning for more 40's and 50's horror and sci-fi to be released. I have no doubt the Bowery Boys will sell better than many of these films did. Again if you don't want or care about the Bowery Boys then fine you don't need to purchase but don't stop those who don't want them just as you wouldn't want others trying to stop your favorite older cult titles from being released.

Honestly, I don't think there's anyone in this thread actively rooting against BB releases.  The whole thing started when somebody suggested that BB would sell as well as Sony's latest Three Stooges releases.  The bottom line is they won't, and I hope to hell that is not the standard that Warner is going to hold them to or we're in trouble.  Nobody is starting a campaign to undermine BB.  We were simply injecting a small dose of reality to the rose-colored sales predictions.  Frankly, if this comes as a surprise to Warner than this series is as good as dead after the first release.  I have more faith in Warner to understand the market and not blindly expect Stooge sales.  If they still choose to release, then we're good to go.

Oh, you can't judge by that. That was back in 1992 on VHS when things were different; Warner has since been much more interested in releasing much of their vintage catalog titles to DVD. 

How many Laurel & Hardy R1 DVDs have been properly released? Not many ... so does this mean they aren't potential sellers? Not really.
Edited by Joe Karlosi - 10/26/09 at 2:52pm

I would be surprised if the Bowery Boys would do as well on DVD as The Three Stooges, simply because the BB's have been out of common circulation for awhile. However, I wouldn't write in stone definitive statements like "the bottom line is they won't" when nobody really KNOWS (and if they do know, then I'd like 6 winning lottery numbers, please!).  Sure, it's unlikely -- but nobody knows -- and even if the BB do NOT sell as well as the Stooges - so what?

This is not aimed at anyone in this thread, but I'm just speaking in general....
I really get so tired of all the "this sells", "that doesn't sell", "this will sell, that won't sell", "this came out on VHS because it sold", "this won't come out on DVD because it only sold on Laserdisc but not VHS" stuff that's gone on for a decade now when discussing home video releases. We already heard all that stuff with regard to so many old horror and vintage catalog movies, and Warner (and other companies) DID put them onto DVD, eventually. Everyone acts like there has to be some sort of big payday or something for each and every film, or series of films, that gets released, and that's not always going to happen. Nor does it need to. There are sometimes singles to be hit, to add up to runs; not everything has to be smashed out of the ballpark.  

Regarding their popularity, consider the following. My friend was asked to put together a reel of vintage trailers for a show at a movie palace in Rome, New York. His reel contained primarily horror titles and some comedies from the forties and early fifties. You know which trailer got the biggest reaction? The Bowery Boys "Triple Trouble" from 1950!

If that audience reaction is any barometer, I would say the Bowery Boys are still very much alive and kicking among movie fans and the general public as well.

Well, I finally did a no-no (shouldn't talk down) and it seems TCM is now going to start showing them on Saturday mornings in March.  Looks like one title each Saturday and they appear to be showing them in order (at least in March).
Edited by Michael Elliott - 12/10/09 at 9:23pm

Thats good news, not as good as the DVD's of course. I wonder if they will really show them all this time. When they were supposed to show them all in the late 90's they for some strange reason stopped after film# 43 and never showed the last 5.

Great news about TCM assuming that they actually air these films (as opposed to the scheduled, but subsequently pulled Barker Tarzans).

I suppose this is a good time to ask:  Ron, from earlier posts it sounds like you are going to see WHV this month; would you please check to see if they are able to further comment on the status of BB releases?  Are they still on track to come out to retail in 2010?  It would be nice to get a sense of what the volume of retail classic releases will be in 2010 as well.

Thanks in advance.

Here is March's TCM Schedule.




Crawdaddy

This is either good news or bad news, depending on how you look at it. 
I am wondering if this changes anything in regard to Warner releasing all 48 films on DVD. I intend to record all the movies myself off TCM in the meantime, as "backups", but I will always still prefer to buy Warner's official DVD sets, if they still release them - and I will buy the DVDs no matter what. But I'm concerned that the TCM airings may put the hex on a lot of potential customers purchasing the DVDs when they can see the movies on TCM. 

The 10:30am EST is not the best for me, as I work Saturdays, and will have to set my timer (I prefer to record "live", and could do so if they were shown before 8am). But this is only a minor quibble. I wonder if they'll be showing these all year long...   

  
      There will always be people that tape instead of buy.  Also, there may be those folks who remember the films fondly, but upon seeing them, feel they haven't held up over time.  Those dangers are there for any film.  Ultimately, the films have to stand up on their own. We'll find out soon enough if the Boys are set for a resurgence. 
     

It can work both ways.  More and more people are going to be aware of the films thanks to TCM but some could argue that people might see them, think they're bad and then not buy them.  That's a risk you run but I doubt many newcomers are expecting these to be CITIZEN KANE type of films so I'm not sure if that will keep away sales. 

I think these airings have a lot to do with me because I actually tracked down a bought a couple of the VHS tapes last week because I wanted to sample them.

Plus, we'll be able to see if they're running old prints or if they've been remastered.  If the plan was to release a set at the end of 2010 then playing one a week will lead us right up to the end. 

I have all 48 movies but I hope the series gets issued. These are underappreciated films but definitely worthy of a DVD release. More people need to discover just how good the Bowery Boys are, the majority of films are well written and entertaining. The Three Stooges have always been more popular, they were skilled at their brand of physical humor but generally they were comics and not very good actors. Curly and Shemp had the most acting ability of the group. Some of the Stooges short subjects for Columbia are funny but overall I think they are overrated. Their act wears thin pretty quick. The Bowery Boys on the other hand, were highly skilled actors working at Warner Bros. in their early days with the likes of Humphrey Bogart and James Cagney. So they learned their craft well. The East Side Kids & Bowery Boys are two of the best "B" movie series. So don't believe what the critics say, the Bowery Boys are great!
Edited by Lecagr - 1/11/10 at 6:12pm

Ronald thank you so much for this forum. Growing up in the 70's & 80's in the NYC area, the Bowery Boys were staples on Saturday & Sunday mornings on Channel 5. While Channel 9 would show East Side Kids on Saturday afternoons.

I don't know what their popularity was outside of the NYC area, but they were big there and I'm glad to hear they are going into rotation at TCM.

This sounds like a wacky idea but if and when Warner decides to release the Bowery Boys on DVD. Maybe they should give a thought to advertising through infomercials in the NYC area. (It worked for Dean Martin.) Even though they were very big, I feel the problem will be is that with the exception of a quick run on A&E and TCM. They have not been on tv since the late 80's. Where The Three Stooges are still playing somewhere on Saturdays or Sundays.

Maybe infomercials could help start a cult following. Anyway, I love the Bowery Boys and look forward to seeing them on TCM and the releases.

One last thing (just a tad off topic) I have all the 'East Side Kids' PD releases. What is up with the rest of that series? I know some were pretty brutal, but I have been looking for them. Does anyone know, are they lost? Not in PD? Any help would appreciated. Thanks!

Don't know why some East Side Kids movies haven't had PD releases. The later ones are harder to find. I have nice copies of all 22 films, outside of a few minor flaws they are complete and uncut. Some of them I had to upgrade a few times until I found the best copy. Some films I recorded from WGN TV Chicago, others are from other telecasts and various PD releases. I have a superb copy of Docks Of New York, recorded from WGN in 1985. I recorded Let's Get Tough from Comedy Central a number of years ago, their print was flawless which shocked me because until then all prints I'd seen of that film were chopped up pretty bad.

There were 48 Bowery Boys movies?!?!?! Holy smokes. Okay so how did this work - did the Dead End kids beget the East Side Kids and then the East Side Kids begat the Bowery Boys? They used to show these movies in pretty random order when I was growing up, so I just figured they changed the names of the characters from picture to picture. I never knew they were broken into specific series. I learn so much around here. Those guys add such terrific color to the old Warner gangster movies. Oh - one more question - was Louie, the guy who always seemed to own the malt shop/grocery store/betting parlor - whatever, was he Leo Gorcey's father in real life? Thanks.