THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans (UPDATE 4/19:... - Page 2

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Although this thread has around 800 views so far, only 34 votes have been logged with 58.82% voting for "Best OF" and 41.18% for "Chronological".

VOTE FOR THE BOWERY BOY RELEASE OF YOUR CHOICE-- BUT VOTE!!!

I voted for Chronological release. I'd like to see whatever MR HEX they have available in it's original release order. If they fine a superior print, include it as a bonus on a later volume. I don't consider that a double-dip.

And Warner's should contact Jack Theakston. They could also take out an ad, or ask editor Bob King for help, over at CLASSIC IMAGES. Some of the long time CI readers who are film collectors are not online. Some of them don't even have VCRs or DVD players.

LOG IN AND VOTE!!

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I am more of an East Side Kids fan and I'd like to see them start from the beginning with the Dead End Kids movies and work their way up. Chronological as the series went downhill over time, especially when Bobby Jordan left after the first 8 BB movies. They got sillier and sillier and went from being tough to pansies. Then Gabe Dell left as well. But back to the original point, if they haven't been able to get a better print after 60 years, I doubt they will find one now. Just release what they have, or else put an add in the Big Reel and pay to borrow one from a collector. I wonder if they even have decent elements on the East Side Kids films. I don't really collect movies at all but this is one series I would purchase.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

On another movie board, someone who used to spend time in the film vaults offered this suggestion:

"As for the practical answer to the Bowery Boys dilemma-- I'd bet if Warners were to go through the vault in Inglewood where half of the (former) MGM stuff sits, they'd find all the Slip and Sach stuff they ever needed. The place was filled with prints of AIP stuff, Corman's Filmgroup, Monogram..."

Just passing this on. Hope it may help.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Well, Ron, I hope that WB won't take the too-few responses as any indication that the Bowery Boys are somehow not a good idea to release. While they're arguably not as popular as, say, Laurel and Hardy or The Three Stooges, let's also bear in mind that (obviously) the Home Theater Forum is not a complete representation of all the BB fans across the globe who want to own these films but may not know about this site.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I agree with Jay here. I´m personally a big fan of "classics", but I have never seen any of the "The Bowery Boys"-movies. Like I did with e.g. "Abbott And Costello" and "Martin & Lewis", it would be great to see all/most of these from the start - in chronological order. I don´t like the "best of"-idea, which would take one film here, the other there, etc.

I fully understand that it´s not easy to maintain the chronological order in 100%, so 80-90% is just fine. My point is, that if with certain films the search for the "best print" still goes on etc, it´s probably best to exclude those films and release them later on (when/if better source materials are found).

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I applaud Warner Home Video’s intention of releasing the Bowery Boys features to DVD.

I realize that the master materials are in variable condition, which has been a stumbling block in offering the films chronologically. (After all, 48 features multiplied by seven reels of picture and seven reels of soundtrack is an awful lot of material to go through.) I would suggest avoiding the “chronological” idea and just packaging different assortments.

There is a great deal of variety in the Bowery Boys library. Several of the early Bowery Boys films are not all-out comedies, and contain the crime-melodrama elements common to the earlier East Side Kids pictures. Many of the later Bowery Boys films are slapstick outings for the kiddie-matinee audience; they play like Three Stooges movies and were written and directed by Elwood Ullman and Edward Bernds of the Stooges’ crew. Also, the membership of the Bowery Boys team varies as the series progresses, and I think that fans would appreciate seeing the different gang members within a single DVD set. This is like saying, “Curly wasn’t the only third Stooge, let’s give Shemp a chance,” or “I like Spanky and Alfalfa, but I also like Stymie and Chubby.” I would personally love to see the underrated Stanley Clements on DVD; he replaces Leo Gorcey in the team’s final films.

I think Warner can go two ways on the Bowery Boys. One idea is to have each volume being representative of the series as a whole, like a TV sampler including first-season, middle-season, and final-season episodes in the same set. This would give the fans a chance to see most of the various Bowery Boys members in one set, and would be an excellent demonstrator for the series, inviting more volumes to come.

My own assortment would be SPOOK BUSTERS (spook show), JINX MONEY (crime story), either FIGHTING FOOLS (boxing) or HOLD THAT LINE (football), BLUES BUSTERS (musical), HOLD THAT HYPNOTIST (burlesque on pirate movies and “Bridey Murphy” reincarnation), and LOOKING FOR DANGER (military).

My second suggestion is to program the films by theme, like Columbia has done with The Three Stooges, and Video Treasures did with Laurel & Hardy. Release the “spooky” comedies on one disc, the sports-themed comedies on another, the military comedies on another, the “Sach gets strange powers” entries on another, the crime-busting stories on another, and so on. For example:

Spook shows: SPOOK BUSTERS, SMUGGLERS’ COVE, MASTER MINDS, GHOST CHASERS, THE BOWERY BOYS MEET THE MONSTERS, SPOOK CHASERS

Sports: MR. HEX (pending good print source), FIGHTING FOOLS, CRAZY OVER HORSES, HOLD THAT LINE, NO HOLDS BARRED, JALOPY, UP IN SMOKE

Military: BOWERY BATTALION, LET’S GO NAVY, HERE COME THE MARINES, CLIPPED WINGS, LOOKING FOR DANGER

Strange powers: MASTER MINDS, BLUES BUSTERS, NO HOLDS BARRED, PRIVATE EYES, JUNGLE GENTS, HOLD THAT HYPNOTIST

Crime-busting: BOWERY BOMBSHELL, NEWS HOUNDS, JINX MONEY, LUCKY LOSERS, JAIL BUSTERS, FIGHTING TROUBLE

Exotic locations: BOWERY BUCKAROOS, FEUDIN’ FOOLS, LOOSE IN LONDON, BOWERY TO BAGDAD, CRASHING LAS VEGAS, IN THE MONEY

Either of these ideas would offer an excellent cross-section of the entire Bowery Boys series, without the production problems of issuing the films chronologically.

I love B pictures of the 1940s, especially the great supporting casts of character actors. The Bowery Boys pictures are filled with familiar faces from Hollywood’s golden age: Sheldon Leonard, Eric Blore, Frankie Darro, Douglass Dumbrille, Adele Jergens, Emil Sitka, Lyle Talbot, etc. I used to watch these features literally three times a day -- that’s how often the station in Massachusetts actually played them: morning, matinee, and late show -- and I enjoyed them again and again. I’m sure that Bowery Boys fans would jump at the chance to buy DVD versions and enjoy them repeatedly, as I have.

Best wishes -- Scott MacGillivray

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I would propose a compromise. Have multiple volumes of the Bowery boys, but don't mix up the actual order ala the Looney Tunes. Instead each volume release is chronological. Let the first release be from the later years starting with one of the best bowery boys followed by the next five-ten releases, then release the other sets. It's chronological, but the release order emphasizes the highest quality material to spark interest in the series. This would keep people who want to view them chronologically from having to perpetually swap discs/sets, but would also provide people the oppurtunity to only buy one or two sets from the period of the bowery boys they enjoy most.

No real idea how this would work, but if there are 48 films, it might go something like:

Volume 1: Bowery Boys film number 30 to Bowery boys film number 39

Volume 2: Bowery Boys film number 40 to film number 48

Volume 3: Bowery Boys film number 1 to film number 9

Volume 4: Bowery Boys film number 10 to number 19

Volume 5: Bowery Boys film number 20 to number 29

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Chronological may be a dangerous way to go. Any of you who visit the TV on DVD forums are well aware of the dozens of tv series which have a season or two released and then abandoned. If the first films in the series are more serious and somewhat different from what the series eventually became, you are going to find a lot of casual fans & newbies who will likely pick up the first set as a sample, not like what they see compared to the later films, and pass on the second set. Warner then sees that sales are down and decides not to release the later films.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

But what about the many of us who are East Side Kids fans and who think the series better movies were the earlier ones before they got ridiculous. I like the films that were dramatic with some comedic elements as opposed to the ones that were just silly.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

My vote is chronological. Interesting to see how the series (and actors) mature over the years. If Warners can get them out quickly then hopefully the interest will not disappear.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Then I'd say there are already tons of public domain versions on DVD of all those "Eastside Kids" flicks. I much prefer the later Bowery Boys incarnation, when they began to be comedians, and these are the Warner-owned movies that have been needed on home video for many years already.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I really endorse Scott's proposal to arrange the films in themes. That's a great idea!

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I just joined this forum in order to express my views on the Bowery Boys and vote in the poll. I read the Classic Horror Film Boards and was directed to this site by their postings.

I voted for the Best of with mixed feelings. It seemed as if you voted for the chronological, it was saying you wanted them to wait until all nice copies have been found. Sorry, at 56 years of age I don't want to wait that long to see films I haven't seen since I was around 12 years old when they were shown on TV on Saturday afternoons on Bob Gordon's Popcorn Theater out of Winston-Salem, NC. God Bless that man. He introduced me to both the Bowery Boys and Republic Serials.

I will take the films in any fashion whatever as long as they start releasing them! Chronological would be nice, but if Best Of will get them released sooner, I will go for that. The theme idea seems nice, but I could also live with the numbering on the spines.

Go for it!

FourC27471

Duck Fan in NC

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Ron, I didn't even KNOW there was a "vote" option at the beginning of this thread until now! Well, I've gone and officially cast my vote to release them Now!

I think the way you've worded the option -- "Wait for better elements to arrive for a chronological release" -- may be a misnomer; couldn't Warner still release them fairly chronologically right now, if they choose to go that way, but just skip over MR. HEX (or a couple of other trouble titles if need be) and get to those at a later date? It doesn't necessarily strike me that it would have to be one or the other.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I hope WHV is open to what Joe Karlosi and a number of others have said in this thread: a chronological release to the extent possible with certain titles waiting if need be. In my opinion, it shouldn't have to be an "all or none" situation. This is really an "Option 3".

Reading all the comments it seems that while we all have varying ideas on how to package them, nearly all have said they are ready to buy them sooner rather than later. The other thing that is clear is that if a non-chronological release is offered that there are some assurances that there will be no double dipping. In other words, label the releases "Vol 1", "Vol 2", etc. rather than "Best of" which implies the release is a subset of a larger, complete collection which will be released later.

Finally, I'd also like to acknowledge Scott MacGillivray's well thought out post which I think presents a viable and marketable alternative if WHV decides against the chronological route. For those who are not aware, Scott is a film historian who is quite knowledgable concerning B pictures and contributed some commentaries to Fox's Laurel and Hardy releases in addition to being a published author. I'd love to hear his commentaries on some Bowery Boys flicks, particularly on those Stanley Clements gems

Steve

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Let me state up front that, while I enjoy the Bowery Boys, I'm not fan enough to guarantee that I would buy all releases. But then, who knows --- I wasn't expecting to buy both Mr. Moto boxes or any Charlie Chan boxes either but the films won me over.

That said, I'd vote for a rough chronological release, bypassing any problematic films and catching up with those at the end of the series. Perhaps the problem transfers could be released in order, as is, and as better elements are found, they could be included on the later discs as extras.

I also like the numbered spine idea, and if there is a genuine fear that those numbers might confuse or put off the more casual consumer, why not print both sides of the cover insert, with the number showing on the inside of the cover, so that the in-the-know fans could flip the cover after they purchase the DVD, if they so choose? I've often wished that the studios would print alternative artwork on the flipside of the cover insert, using original poster art, to give the consumer some variety and choice (but then I like snapper cases and digi's and hate Amaray cases, unless they are clear with double-sided cover inserts).

Todd

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

If there´s no middle ground (?), then I would still choose "Nr.1". Then again, I´m not a huge fan (yet, at least), so I don´t mind the wait.

If they just start releasing these films from "here-and-there", the fans might start to wonder that perhaps there will be a "proper" chronological releases coming later on and they might skip those "best of" sets.. Just speculating.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Id like to see the series split up into 4 sets.Release 2 sets per year starting with the higher quality film elements first....this would give another year or so to locate any better prints.
By that point im in favor of releasing whatever Warners can come up with.I would like to see somewhere in the packaging where chronologicaly the film falls within the series.
Most important,would like to see the whole catalouge released,despite print quality.



Thanks Warners!!!

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I voted for #2 only because I like things in chrono order but why can't they start now with vol. 1, include Mr. Hex as a bonus feature on that particular vol. it's supposed to be in (if it's even watchable) and when a better print comes along redo the vol. with the new print. I don't think people would mind ONE double dip for a better print. I know I wouldn't if I wanted a complete set. Also, let me commend Warner's for asking our opinions. You guys are the saving grace of classic films! Thank God you own so many of them!

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I've been regurgetating the responses posted on the forium and, personally and pusinanymously, I would prefer the brothers Warner to release the series in its original chronic illogical old fashion. I think it would be most distressing, if not, dehabilitating, for fans of Slip and Sach to see them genuflecting between youthful enthusiasm and decrepit delapidation. Not to mention the prospect of interloping Stanley Clements in the middle of the deprogression of the Bowery Boys' adventures endeavors! Ditto for Dick Elliott's imbilious characterization as Mike Clancy in the place of the deceased Bernard Gorcey.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

I voted for "best of" of course I would prefer they change the titles to "vol 1" "vol 2" etc.

I just want them released.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

The news about Warner Bros actually wanting to release the series is great news. But if they did them in sequence....unless they had about 10-15 titles per set, it would take a while.

Myself, I think a 'Best Boy' set series would be great...or more specifically in one particular case, a collection of their horror comedies; MASTER MINDS, THE BOWERY BOYS MEET THE MONSTERS, SPOOK BUSTERS, GHOST CATCHES and SPOOK CHASERS. The first two titles are among the most popular in the long-running series and I know would sell like hot-cakes...or even DVDS!
(sorry, just couldn't resist).

It would also be nice if among the extras they would have the trailers for these films. I know they exist since I found some of them in a VHS put out some years back.

I'm a long-time BB fan, since seeing their old 'EAST SIDE KIDS' films on TV at the start of the 50s and then seeing the following series from the early 50s on in the theater (gawd, memories of seeing them on the large screen).

I wonder if Warners is actually going to pay attention to any of the postings here, but I figure its worth a try.

One encouraging point is that they have started to do something with the Allied Artists package they have, which includes a lot of the Monogram Pictures features as well.

But that's for another forum, I guess.

So Warners, if you read this, how about a BOWERY BOYS MEET THE MONSTERS-type package?

Thanks for the use of the hall,

Eric L. Hoffman

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Given that any new transfers to DVD will likely be the staple for future editions, restorations, etc. on home video... I think 1-2 years compared to what we've already been through is not a big deal. I think we should all be patient and let Warners do what they do best in delivering a definitive version of the films that we want to see properly preserved on DVD, rather than rushed out now to satisfy our impulses. There's more than enough to keep our pockets stretched thin as it is. This will just be something for us to look forward to and anticipate even more. We've waited this long, another year or two is nothing if the outcome promises to be as enticing as it sounds.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Impulses? Warner said in a chat something like two years ago that they were going to start releasing the Bowery Boys films; then apparently they ran into a problem with a print (MR. HEX, I take it?). And now another two years to wait before these films begin to see DVD? Sheesh, I hope not! Waiting two more years because 1 film in a series (or 3 or 4) out of 48 requires a better source, well.... that just seems unnecessary IMO.

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

Plus there's no guarantee that Warner will ever find good prints on some of the titles. Once again, I hope certain films won't be left in a vault just because of less than stellar quality.

I noticed that TCM is showing several of the PD East Side Kids films in November. Does anyone know why these BB films never get shown?

re: THE BOWERY BOYS on DVD: continuing discussion of Warner's eventual release plans

The Bowery Boys movies were shown several years ago on TCM, and I wish I had the channel back then. I have to say that my father in law had the channel at the time and I watched a couple of movies there... the quality looked darn good.

The following comment may be out of line, so please let me know, Ron -- but I had seen dupes of these airings making the rounds, at some convention or other. So people do want them.