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Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion... - Page 2  

post #31 of 344
7/15/07 at 7:21pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Are teenagers considered children?
post #32 of 344
7/15/07 at 8:15pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh.C
Correct Chuck, and this will be Gambon's chance to shine or lay a golden egg. As I have already said (as one of his biggest critics) he did a much better job in OotP, but will need to step up his game even more for HBP, where he should see much increased camera time.

I'm probably in the minority, but I haven't had a problem with Gambon's portrayal of Dumbledore in the two films I've seen so far. I haven't seen Phoenix yet, but so far it has worked for me and to be honest, I believe that he can look more capable of carrying HBP.

Jason
post #33 of 344
7/15/07 at 9:24pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLongshot
I'm probably in the minority, but I haven't had a problem with Gambon's portrayal of Dumbledore in the two films I've seen so far. I haven't seen Phoenix yet, but so far it has worked for me and to be honest, I believe that he can look more capable of carrying HBP.

Jason
I'm right with you, Jason. I much prefer Gambon's portrayal to that of Richard Harris. He's much closer to the character as described in the book, IMO.

Harris was really my only casting issue I've had in the series (Though I'm still undecided on Staunton as Umbridge until I see the film.)
post #34 of 344
7/15/07 at 9:48pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Harris is pretty much exactly how I imagined Dumbledore being. However, I don't mind Gambon's take on the role at all.
post #35 of 344
7/16/07 at 7:09am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Harris played Dumbledore as a wheezy, weak old man, which is completely unlike the Dumbledore from the books.

With Gambon's portrayal, at least Dumbledore does not look like someone to be trifled with.
post #36 of 344
7/16/07 at 7:49am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sheffield
Harris played Dumbledore as a wheezy, weak old man, which is completely unlike the Dumbledore from the books.

With Gambon's portrayal, at least Dumbledore does not look like someone to be trifled with.

With Harris there was a warmth to his almost everything he did that's absent in Gambon's performance much of the time. But it did occur to me watching OotP's finale that the physicality would probably have been beyond Harris even had he lived. But I thought Harris did everything that was demanded on him from the material in the first two books.
post #37 of 344
7/16/07 at 10:37am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Grey
With Harris there was a warmth to his almost everything he did that's absent in Gambon's performance much of the time. But it did occur to me watching OotP's finale that the physicality would probably have been beyond Harris even had he lived. But I thought Harris did everything that was demanded on him from the material in the first two books.

I don't argue with that, but that "warmth" has become less important as the books go on. I don't really miss it in the two films I've seen Gambon in.

Jason
post #38 of 344
7/16/07 at 10:52am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

The warmth will be *very* important in HBP though. Dumbledore was "cold" for most of Phoenix for good reason and they cut out 95% of the sequence at the end where he really brings back the humanity of the Dumbledore from the first four books. But Gambon will really need to bring something new to the character that he hasn't really been on called on for yet. He's a great actor so I have faith but I do have to say that I haven't seen much of that in his Dumbledore so far.
post #39 of 344
7/16/07 at 12:23pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm R
I'm right with you, Jason. I much prefer Gambon's portrayal to that of Richard Harris. He's much closer to the character as described in the book, IMO.

Harris was really my only casting issue I've had in the series (Though I'm still undecided on Staunton as Umbridge until I see the film.)

I have to strongly disagree that Gambon's portrayl is much closer to the books than Richard Harris's Dumbledore. As I have said several times, he Gambon did a good job in OotP, however I don't see how any reader of the books could have enjoyed his performance in GoF. He did several things that Dumbledore would have never done. The one that bothered me the most was when he grabbed and shook Harry after his name flew out of the Goblet of Fire. I'm not going to blame it 100% on Gambon, but this was WAY out of character for Albus Dumbledore.

Now that Gambon seems to have captured the personality and quiet power in Dumbledore's character, he should be able to do a good job in HBP. I also agree that Harris would have had a tough time physically performing the role at this point int the series, but Dumbledore's intimidation has never struck me as being a physical one. He does it with well timed remarks, and always seeming to know more than you know. He also shows this in the way he never seems to get flustered or overly excited (a character trait that was poorly executed in the 3rd & 4th films), and handles each situation calmly and with purpose.

Once again, my criticism of Gambon has been in the 3rd and 4th books, and I hope he can build on a solid performance in OotP in the next film.

JC
post #40 of 344
7/16/07 at 12:25pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Gambon was good in OOTP because the role required him to be aloof and action-oriented. But I just DON'T buy that he cares that much about Harry, even when he says it to him directly. There is a warmth missing in his performance.

Richard Harris was very sick during filming, and that greatly impeded his performance. But one of the great things about Dumbledore, as Rowling envisions him, is his delicious sense of passive-aggression. Gambon's Dumbledore is merely an aggressor, an almost angry wizard. Dumbledore's anger in the books is more effective when it does appear because he SEEMS so "kind and harmless" most of the time.

Listen to Jim Dale's rendition of Dumbledore on the audio books. It trumps either performance in the films, IMO.
post #41 of 344
7/16/07 at 12:27pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I still say Ian McClellan(sp) would have made a GREAT Dumbledore, and hate that he turned down the opportunity.
post #42 of 344
7/16/07 at 1:25pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Gambon's Dumbledore was okay in POA; he gave the professor an element of whimsy that fitting the character. (I always remember Dumbledore in the first book offering 'a few words' at the opening banquet and firing off a random list of strange words) His characterization in GOF, however, was the largest flaw in the film. The fundamental element of Dumbledore's character is that he is the smartest man in the room. (He's not trying to prove it or impress anybody, he just is) He's like a chess grand master. He's always playing several moves ahead of everyone else. The grandmaster may be surprised by his opponents move, but not shocked or alarmed because he is immediately planning a response. In GOF Gambon's Dumbledore seemed endlessly shocked and rattled by events, even shaking the stuffing out of Harry in his alarm. Dumbledore must never seem overwhelmed or over his head; that destroys the essence of the character. Happily in OotP Gambon's Dumbledore is once again skilled, warm, and the most powerful cat in any room. In Yate's OotP Dumbledore was pushed to his limits in combat with Voldemort, but he never seemed panicked or at a loss. I loved the moment in the film when Voldemort in his duel with Dumbledore realized he might be in over his head. It gives me faith that with the right direction, the real Dumbledore will appear in HBP
post #43 of 344
7/16/07 at 3:16pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Well put Stephen. I have the same view of Dumbledore and really liked the chess analolgy.

I was relieved when Gambon didn't overdoe it in this last film, and like you, it gives me hope for the HBP.

Gambon's portrayl in GoF was something I couldn't get past. It really ruined the film for me, and probably made me more critical of the other elements of the movie. I was literally angry when he got so visibly upset and shook Harry. I wanted to kick him in the face.

Do you think they can go back in and edit that part out so I can enjoy the film?

Great comments,

JC
post #44 of 344
7/16/07 at 4:12pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh.C
I have to strongly disagree that Gambon's portrayl is much closer to the books than Richard Harris's Dumbledore. As I have said several times, he Gambon did a good job in OotP, however I don't see how any reader of the books could have enjoyed his performance in GoF. He did several things that Dumbledore would have never done. The one that bothered me the most was when he grabbed and shook Harry after his name flew out of the Goblet of Fire. I'm not going to blame it 100% on Gambon, but this was WAY out of character for Albus Dumbledore.

Now that Gambon seems to have captured the personality and quiet power in Dumbledore's character, he should be able to do a good job in HBP. I also agree that Harris would have had a tough time physically performing the role at this point int the series, but Dumbledore's intimidation has never struck me as being a physical one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh.C
I still say Ian McKellan(sp) would have made a GREAT Dumbledore, and hate that he turned down the opportunity.
Agree on both counts. He was too aggressive with Harry (a student) in GoF. I love Gambon, but he needs a little of Harris' gentler nature. He does have the gravitas down. Gambon did a lot I liked in OotP, though I agree he needs to warm up a bit more.

I understand why Sir Ian didn't do it, but it still makes me a bit sad. His Gandalf the Grey from FOTR was perfect, in every respect, for what Rowling does with Dumbledore. It's a matter of self-possession and harnessed power. McKellen would have been legendary in this role as well.

But I hope Gambon makes it work in HBP. I think he will.
post #45 of 344
7/16/07 at 4:16pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I much prefer Gambon's portrayal of Dumbledore. I am not sure if Gambon was at an English boarding school but it is a much more realistic take on how a headmaster of a secondary boarding school would behave than Harris more fatherly approach.

However, in many ways Harris portrayal of Dumbledore works just as well given that Harry is much younger in the first two films and needs that warm and kindly approach.

Quote:
In GOF Gambon's Dumbledore seemed endlessly shocked and rattled by events, even shaking the stuffing out of Harry in his alarm. Dumbledore must never seem overwhelmed or over his head; that destroys the essence of the character

Up to Goblet of Fire I would agree. However, I would argue that GOF requires Dumbledore to be uncertain and not several moves ahead of others. It works for the series in building up the danger to Harry and his friends (if we believe Dumbledore is totally in control, then we are never going to be concerned about Harry and his friends) and given that one of his students dies in GOF it would seem ridiculous if throughout the whole film he is so sure of himself. It makes him look more idiotic at the end when one of his students dies.
post #46 of 344
7/16/07 at 4:53pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Massey
I much prefer Gambon's portrayal of Dumbledore. I am not sure if Gambon was at an English boarding school but it is a much more realistic take on how a headmaster of a secondary boarding school would behave than Harris more fatherly approach.
The difference is that Harry isn't just any student. Dumbledore has always been the one ultimately responsible for his well being.
Quote:
However, I would argue that GOF requires Dumbledore to be uncertain and not several moves ahead of others. It works for the series in building up the danger to Harry and his friends (if we believe Dumbledore is totally in control, then we are never going to be concerned about Harry and his friends) and given that one of his students dies in GOF it would seem ridiculous if throughout the whole film he is so sure of himself. It makes him look more idiotic at the end when one of his students dies.
It's not the uncertainty that's problematic. It's the way he handles the uncertainty. Dumbledore doesn't manhandle students.

I thought the last Harry/Dumbledore scene in OOTP movie was more unforgivable, though. It was Gambon saying how much he cared for Harry without the slightest sign of emotion.
post #47 of 344
7/16/07 at 5:27pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
I understand why Sir Ian didn't do it, but it still makes me a bit sad. His Gandalf the Grey from FOTR was perfect, in every respect, for what Rowling does with Dumbledore. It's a matter of self-possession and harnessed power. McKellen would have been legendary in this role as well.

I know that being "type cast" is the kiss of death in the mind of an actor, so I to can understand his reasoning, but as a fan it kills me. This is wishful thinking, but it sure is fun to wish . Sir Ian would be the perfect blend of heart and warmth coupled with hidden power, as he showed plenty of times in his role of Gandalf from the LotR trilogy. Its never going to happen, but man what could have been.

Gambon figured out that he doesn't need to over act to do Dumbledore, but as many have said, still needs to work on the warmth aspect.

JC
post #48 of 344
7/16/07 at 10:50pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

While shaking Harry was out of character for Dumbledore the filmmakers needed to do something bold that communicated to the non-readers that Harry's name coming out was an epic disaster, rather than mildly distraught handwringing we get from the other teachers. Otherwise it's just another jaunt for the Sorcerer's Stone, a sort of fun scavenger hunt/obstacle course. And I think the scene was more effectively shattering than the filmmakers ever expected. Whether or not it was the right decision is stillup in the air to me, but it definitely shocked everyone in my theatre into a horrified silence at the enormity of what had just happened. A very powerful tool, taking Dumbledore out of character, and I think Rowling was smarter to do it in Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The Cave of the Locket
than where the filmmakers decided to employ it.
post #49 of 344
7/17/07 at 9:03am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

"While shaking Harry was out of character for Dumbledore the filmmakers needed to do something bold that communicated to the non-readers that Harry's name coming out was an epic disaster"



"I'm probably in the minority, but I haven't had a problem with Gambon's portrayal of Dumbledore in the two films I've seen so far."

Me neither. Ian McKellan was my choice as well.


"Yates and crew start filming this September. During post-production of Phoenix, they started working on Prince. If I'm not mistaken, Steve Kloves has been working on Prince for a long while...I would say somewhere around a few months after it was released.In an interview discussing his returning to writing, he did state that him and Michael Goldenberg were trading notes while Goldenberg was finishing up on the Phoenix script.So, it seems that they have had plenty of prep time for this film."

I wish more studios took this approach.
post #50 of 344
7/17/07 at 9:53am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam_S
While shaking Harry was out of character for Dumbledore the filmmakers needed to do something bold that communicated to the non-readers that Harry's name coming out was an epic disaster, rather than mildly distraught handwringing we get from the other teachers. Otherwise it's just another jaunt for the Sorcerer's Stone, a sort of fun scavenger hunt/obstacle course. And I think the scene was more effectively shattering than the filmmakers ever expected. Whether or not it was the right decision is stillup in the air to me, but it definitely shocked everyone in my theatre into a horrified silence at the enormity of what had just happened. A very powerful tool, taking Dumbledore out of character, and I think Rowling was smarter to do it in Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The Cave of the Locket
than where the filmmakers decided to employ it.

I respect your opinion Adam, but I feel it could have been just as (or more) effective, even to film-only viewers, to follow the books outline for that scene, and would help film viewers understand Dumbledore's character throughout the series. I think understanding his personality traits as discussed above play a huge role in the books, and consequently the films. Most of the books end with a conversation between Harry and Dumbledore, and serve as a summary of the book, and a teaser on what is to come. His warmth and various mannerisms are vital to the series.

Just opinions, and nothing I can change anyway

JC
post #51 of 344
7/17/07 at 11:22am
Thread Starter 

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Assuming HBP comes out Nov.'08. How long do you think the Deathly Hallows will come out after. Will they do it quickly like the first 2...Or wait another year and half (June 09)? I am hoping its a shorter turnaround. Only for the fact HBP sets a lot up for the last book.
post #52 of 344
7/17/07 at 11:28am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd s
Assuming HBP comes out Nov.'08. How long do you think the Deathly Hallows will come out after. Will they do it quickly like the first 2...Or wait another year and half (June 09)? I am hoping its a shorter turnaround. Only for the fact HBP sets a lot up for the last book.

Probably Summer '09 (maybe even November '09 depending on where OotP ends up grossing). I don't think they'll try for a year turnaround unless they get really worried about lack of audience interest with the books finished.

Also, just going by my expectations for the seventh book, I think it would be much more difficult to mount on the back of the sixth film than it was to roll right into Chamber after finishing the first movie.
post #53 of 344
7/17/07 at 11:28am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I believe DH is tentatively set for June 2010, November 2009 would be only a year after the HBP movie, and they don't have a book to work from for another three days, so doing them a year apart like 1&2 is pretty much out of the question. but if Order of the Phoenix underperforms they may bump it to November 2010, since it doesn't look like that's happening, we'll probably get it in the early summer date.
post #54 of 344
7/19/07 at 8:40am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I am currently going throught the HBP audio book and just came to a puzzling part.

Creature and Dobby just apparated to come speak with Harry while in the castle. I thought the book made it clear that no-one could apparate inside of Hogwartz. Am I having a brain fart, or is this a contradiction from the series?

JC
post #55 of 344
7/19/07 at 8:43am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Perhaps they came from another room in the castle which would be OK. I think it's apparition to/from the outside that is verbotten. After all the kids do have to learn the stuff at some point, and they do in the caste.

But now that you mention it, how the heck did DD vanish from his office when the Ministry squad came to arrest him in OotP?

--
H
post #56 of 344
7/19/07 at 9:07am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

House Elves use a different kind of magic and also seem to have some sort of special exemption since they use Apparition for doing their tasks. They've been apparating in Hogwarts since being introduced in Chamber of Secrets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
Perhaps they came from another room in the castle which would be OK. I think it's apparition to/from the outside that is verbotten. After all the kids do have to learn the stuff at some point, and they do in the caste.

That was a special one hour exemption where the ban on apparating in Hogwarts was lifted for the Great Hall only.
post #57 of 344
7/19/07 at 9:18am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Kevin, I pretty much arrived at that conclusion, but don't remember any book specifically saying house elves were given these special privaledges within Hogwartz.

It just hit me while listening, and I was surprised I had never asked the question before.

JC
post #58 of 344
7/19/07 at 9:30am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh.C
Kevin, I pretty much arrived at that conclusion, but don't remember any book specifically saying house elves were given these special privaledges within Hogwartz.

Yeah, I'm not sure it was ever in the books. I do know that Rowling has explicitly stated it in interviews though.
post #59 of 344
7/19/07 at 9:38am

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

House Elves magic is different from Wizarding magic, just as Centaur divination is different from Wizarding divination. What the house elves do may not even be apparating in the same sense. In fact one theory I have is these differences will probably play an especially important role in the seventh book, imo.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Ialso believed that this may be one of the things Voldemort has overlooked and that Kreacher was able to accompany RAB across the lake without screwing up the magic power barrier Voldemort placed on the boat



Dumbledore escaped via Fawkes, rather than Apparating, he used a creatures magic to get around the restrictions on wizarding magic.
post #60 of 344
7/19/07 at 2:14pm

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Joseph Fiennes, Stuart Townsend and Naomi Watts have been cast.

My guess is Naomi Watts for Narcissa Malfoy (Spinner's End chapter definitely in the movie, and indicates she may have a big role in the seventh book/movie)

Joseph Fiennes for Tom Riddle Senior (simply fun Stunt Casting)

Stuart Townsend - ? Scrimgeour perhaps?

I'd like to see Albert Finney or Anthony Hopkins (please get him!) or Bob Hoskins as Slughorn. Though Jim Broadbent, Brian Cox or Stephen Fry would also work.
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