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post #121 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yee-Ming
In retrospect now, the call for McKellen as Dumbledore (after Harris passed away) was even more appropriate.
I said that at the time, too. I think his voice and looks would have been closer to Harris'.
post #122 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yee-Ming
In retrospect now, the call for McKellen as Dumbledore (after Harris passed away) was even more appropriate.

Nah...he would have been far too evocative of his current famous wizard role, Gandalf.
post #123 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Just wanted to re-up this discussion a bit to relay some news about the sixth film.

According to thesnitch.co.uk, WB has confirmed that The Dursleys, The Muggle Prime Minister, Hepzibah Smith, and the Gaunts have been cut from the sixth film.

The last two on that list are quite interesting cuts if you know that particular book. I am quite curious as to how they are going to make this work because those cuts affect Deathly Hallows, in terms of specific details.
post #124 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Yeah. The Muggle Prime Minister was the most obvious cut in the book, so I'm sure that's the first thing that went. The Dumbledore/Dursley scene, while entertaining, isn't really necessary either. They could pick up with Dumbledore and Harry arriving at Slughorn's without really missing anything of value. I figured that all of the Voldemort flashbacks would be in the film, particularly since {SPOILER: Highlight to read} they've cast Voldemort at multiple ages and Harry's knowledge of the horcruxes is so necessary for the final flick{/SPOILER}.
post #125 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Adam,

Based on that list I provided, it seems that three Pensieve scenes are cut from the film...which, if you think about it, the information within those three scenes can be achieved another way...especially towards the end of the story when Dumbledore really explains to Harry why they took the journery they've taken.
post #126 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

hmm, pretty radical to cut the Gaunts and Hepzibah Smith. I suppose Hepzibah makes sense, Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
instead in the seventh movie they'll say that Bellatrix found/inherited/stole the cup can gave it to Voldemort and then he made it into a horcrux and had her store it in his vault.
which would also cut out more house elves. That or they'll actually have Harry and Dumbledore interview the old dying house elf rather than have a pensieve scene of the elf's memory.

but removing the Gaunts worries me, that's a big part of Voldemort's background, perhaps it's being moved to the seventh movie to streamline the story in Deathly Hallows?
Just seems like more of the same from this director, sacrificing character building sequences to horn in more inane action, I wish Mike Newell were handling this film.
post #127 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam_S
Just seems like more of the same from this director, sacrificing character building sequences to horn in more inane action, I wish Mike Newell were handling this film.

Why do you assume it's a Yates mandated change instead of something done by Kloves?
post #128 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory S.
Based on that list I provided, it seems that three Pensieve scenes are cut from the film...which, if you think about it, the information within those three scenes can be achieved another way...especially towards the end of the story when Dumbledore really explains to Harry why they took the journery they've taken.
But if you only have the {highlight} orphanage scene and the Hogwarts scenes{/highlight}, how much of a journey is it, really? I agree with Adam. The Gaunt scenes are scenes I wouldn't have wanted to lose.
post #129 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I agree about the Gaunts. Hepzibah is no big deal, but the Gaunts are critical to the character.

Oh well, we'll see what we'll see
post #130 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

The Gaunts are only critical to understanding the specifics of how Voldemort came about. The actual scenes themselves have no information that's actually important to the overall plot of that story.

And the information that is important to the plot, Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the ring/ressurection stone and the locket
,can be obtain quickly in another way.

By my count, we're getting Tom Riddle at the orphange/going to get his books at Diagon Alley (I think we that was in the book), not fully formed Voldemort asking for a job at Hogwarts, and the two Slughorn memory scenes that are important to understanding Horcruxes.

Voldemort's backstory can be handled in the orphange scene through dialogue.

Again, I'm just guessing here....
post #131 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Once again, there's a difference between "can" and "should". Substituting what should be should evocatively with what can be told through exposition is never a positive trade. Unless you see the circumstances of Tom Riddle's conception, see the abuse and deception, he remains pretty one-note in my book.
post #132 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I agree with Adam. His family dynamic (whether he was present for it or not) is quite important to his character. I have no doubt there is a tolerable workaround, but I would prefer that section of the story as it was written. It's not like it's a long segment...maybe 5-10 minutes total for the entire Gaunt story.
post #133 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
It's not like it's a long segment...maybe 5-10 minutes total for the entire Gaunt story.

That's been a running theme since the third movie where they all would have benefited enormously from just another five or so minutes.
post #134 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

New Behind the Scenes video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLKbadsOmjo&e
post #135 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Gives us a much better feel for the movie than the costume and set design ones did. I really like the way that Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the one Harry/Ginny scene looks; the tension of them just being close to each other in that way plays really really well. I hope that's not going to be the scene for THE kiss, though, because that storyline plays out amazing as is in the book
.

There's an MTV article that also goes a long way towards allaying some if my fears. It confirms: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
  • That except for the dark as hell ending, the movie's going to be lighter and more playful than the fifth film. Yates calls it the "sex, drugs, and rock and roll" film of the series, while Dan Racliffe declares: "If we pull [it] off [right], it should be the funniest of the films so far."
  • The Ron/Hermione/Lavender triangle will play a role in the story, as will the Harry/Ginny romantic storyline. "I knew Bonnie when she was 10, so that's going to be very odd!" Radcliffe laughed. "It's going to be fine, but it's going to be funny."
  • The central relationship of the film is Harry/Dumbledore, with Evana Lynch joking: "I'm jealous of Dumbledore taking all the scenes."
  • Voldemort's back story WILL feature strongly in the film, and the pensieve will be the mechanism by which his back story is pieced together. Ralph Fiennes's nephew has been cast as 11-year-old Tom Riddle and Frank Dillane has been cast as 16-year-old Riddle. Presumably Fiennes himself will play adult Riddle in the last memory between Voldemort and Dumbledore.
In the "something new" category, Katie Leung will be back for the film even though Cho only makes a cameo in the book, but doesn't start filming until January. "There's still a slight jealousy there with Ginny to be resolved," she said.
post #136 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

That said, everything about "Order of the Phoenix" LOOKED good, going in. My problems with that were mainly due to the film's look, dialog, and editing. I don't see the look of the picture being a problem this time, since Bruno Delbonnel is one the greatest cinematographers working today. And even though Steve Kloves's scripts have been a mixed bag, none had dialog as awkward as Goldenberg's unfortunate script (which flared to life only when Rowling's dialog was used verbatim). I'm cautiously optimistic about the script, since I felt that Kloves really got it on "Goblet of Fire." The same director/editing team are going to be at the editing bay, though, and one of the worst offenses of OOTP is that it had no flow. I don't really see any reason that will change for this one.
post #137 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I'm personally not very optimistic after OOTP. I really felt watching that movie that I was enjoying it in spite of the filmmakers work, rather than because of it. It just seemed that Yates and Goldenberg decided to throw out nearly everything that made the book special. I know that's a constant gripe by any fan of any literary adaptation, but the first four films all did a hell of a better job at it than the last movie. I even recall reading an interview with Yates where he said something to the effect that he was trying (with OOTP) to make the shortest film possible, and that just seems to be a horribly misguided way of going about it. Don't worry about making it shorter, worry about doing the story justice and the rest will fall into place. The Harry Potter audience has already proved that it will gladly sit still for an almost three hour film, no need to challenge that.

I really wanted to like OOTP, and it wasn't awful by any means, but it was the first time I walked out of the theater after seeing a new Harry Potter movie with truly mixed feelings. The things that mattered most to me in the book, like Harry's relationship with Sirius and (to a lesser extent) Lupin, were a big part of what made the book great to me, and what made the ending so devastating, and robbing the film of those scenes shortchanged the impact that the ending of the film should have had. After the huge finale to Goblet Of Fire, both visually and emotionally, OOTP was a letdown. For me, the last half hour of GOF made a promise that OOTP wasn't able to fulfill, not even close. The battle at the end of OOTP is great, undeniably, but everything that came before and after that was lacking.

So on one hand, while I cringe at myself for thinking this and even more for saying it, I can't help but have reservations about the film before I see even a trailer. When I started seeing previews for OOTP (as well as hearing about how short the running time was), my initial reaction was, "Hey, these films have all had the same producer, they know what they're doing and I'm just gonna trust that." But as I watched the movie, I kept thinking, "I can't believe someone read this script and thought it was up to the standards of the other films" and "I can't believe they were shooting this footage and cutting it together and no one has noticed that it isn't working as well as it should." Since they seemed pleased enough with what Yates did to bring him back, that doesn't exactly fill me up with warm and fuzzy feelings. I really do worry that they're going to fill the movie up with relatively insignificant moments and shortchange all of the crucial Voldemort backstory, as well as shortchange the Harry and Dumbledore dynamic. I hope not, but I just can't be optimistic at all after seeing OOTP. For better or worse, watching that film, I felt that the writer and director just didn't get it (for lack of a better description), and there's nothing about what they did that makes me feel that this one will be any better. I'm glad Steve Kloves is back to write the script, but at the same time, he can write the best script in the world but if Yates starts cutting stuff out of it or doesn't shoot it right, it doesn't matter if it was all there perfectly on the page. So we'll see.

Sorry to be such a downer, but that's been on my chest for probably too long... OK, gonna stop being a dork for a few moments
post #138 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

First official still released by Warner Bros.:


I am so glad that Delbonnel is the cinematographer. This has to be the first photo of Harry since Chamber of Secrets where his skin and the world around him aren't blue. If nothing else, the film should be really pretty to look at.
post #139 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Well this is a still picture, not from the actual movie. They can make the movie all blue later in post. So don't get excited!
post #140 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Davatchi
Well this is a still picture, not from the actual movie. They can make the movie all blue later in post. So don't get excited!
Way to kill my enthusiasm with your quote-unquote "reality."

Warner Bros. released the official description along with that still:
HARRY POTTER AND THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE
November 21

(Warner Bros. Pictures)

Director: David Yates
Writer: Steve Kloves
Producers: David Heyman, David Barron

Cast: Daniel Radcliffe, Rupert Grint, Emma Watson, Helena Bonham Carter, David Bradley, Jim Broadbent, Jessie Cave, Robbie Coltrane, Warwick Davis, Frank Dillane, Tom Felton, Michael Gambon, Matthew Lewis, Evanna Lynch, Helen McCrory, Alan Rickman, Maggie Smith, Natalia Tena, Hero Fiennes Tiffin, Julie Walters, David Thewlis, Bonnie Wright
Fantasy Adventure. Voldemort is tightening his grip on both the Muggle and wizarding worlds and Hogwarts is no longer the safe haven it once was. Harry suspects that dangers may even lie within the castle, but Dumbledore is more intent upon preparing him for the final battle that he knows is fast approaching. Together they work to find the key to unlock Voldemort's defenses and, to this end, Dumbledore recruits his old friend and colleague, the well-connected and unsuspecting bon vivant Professor Horace Slughorn, whom he believes holds crucial information. Meanwhile, the students are under attack from a very different adversary as teenage hormones rage across the ramparts. Harry finds himself more and more drawn to Ginny, but so is Dean Thomas. And Lavender Brown has decided that Ron is the one for her, only she hadn't counted on Romilda Vane's chocolates! And then there's Hermione, simpering with jealously but determined not to show her feelings. As romance blossoms, one student remains aloof. He is determined to make his mark, albeit a dark one. Love is in the air, but tragedy lies ahead and Hogwarts may never be the same again.
Sounds like they got quite a bit of the book in, both the humor/hijinks and the dark-as-hell ending. I just hope that we get to spend some time with each storyline instead of having a series of micro-scenes like OOTP.
post #141 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

"First official still released by Warner Bros."

I still liked and miss the longer, messier hair from GOF.
post #142 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonZ
"First official still released by Warner Bros."

I still liked and miss the longer, messier hair from GOF.

I think it's what makes this still look like it could be from "Order of the Phoenix". Harry looks EXACTLY the same. Not saying that's a bad thing but just that with the three previous film, he looked different (older, different hairstyle) when they would release a still for those.
post #143 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

I haven't read any of the books, but I wasn't that impressed with OoTP (the movie). I dunno it just didn't seem as magical as the other Potter films to me and plot was sorta ... redundant. We know Voldemort is back in the previous movie, so this movie is all about ... Voldemort ... really being back.

Also I sorta miss the John Williams' theme ... it was scaled back to almost being non-existent in OoTP. OoTP just felt so dry to me.
post #144 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
The same director/editing team are going to be at the editing bay, though, and one of the worst offenses of OOTP is that it had no flow. I don't really see any reason that will change for this one.

I think the Pensieve sequences should help give the film a bit more structure that will help with pacing just like the Tasks did for Goblet.
post #145 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Hmmm...well...I'm a book fan...and I liked OOTP much more than I thought I would. I think the book was unwieldy as all get out and Yates did a fine job with it considering the problems with structure and length. He's very good with the actors too. Given the contraints of the avaerage modern attention span, I thought OOP was very good, second only to PoA, and the closing sequence in the MOM was wonderful.

I didn't like GoF particularly - despite good individual moments, I didn't care for the way Newell shaped the film as a whole and I thought many of the performances were pitched way too high (Gambon's in particualr).

If I can't have Cuaron I'll take Yates any day.

I have to confess that I did miss John Williams - something I'd never thought I'd say. I thought the score to PoA was brilliant.

And I do wish Harry's hair was a bit messier, although I didn't think the long length in GoF was flattering to him at all.

Small quibbles. I was a big fan of Yates work on the brilliant BBC series The Way We Live Now. I suspect, having survived OOTP, he will be even more confident with the more adaptable HBP. I'm looking foward to it.
post #146 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

m
post #147 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

.
post #148 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Grey
I think the Pensieve sequences should help give the film a bit more structure that will help with pacing just like the Tasks did for Goblet.
I didn't really think about that ever since it was announced that Yates was returning, but you're absolutely right. That was one of the reasons that I thought it'd be one of the easier adaptations. It's a pretty straightforward narrative, where the pieces pretty much go where you think they're going. (Except for a shocking surprise or two at the climax).
My main lingering concern is whether the scenes will have room to breathe. I think the average scene in OOTP had about four lines of dialogue, and the jarring editing made it feel like large chunks were cut out in between each. (For instance, when the Order lands in the park across from Grimmauld Place and then the cut hops instantly to them knocking on the door)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire Panke
Hmmm...well...I'm a book fan...and I liked OOTP much more than I thought I would. I think the book was unwieldy as all get out and Yates did a fine job with it considering the problems with structure and length. He's very good with the actors too. Given the contraints of the avaerage modern attention span, I thought OOP was very good, second only to PoA, and the closing sequence in the MOM was wonderful.
I think Order of the Phoenix had some of the best performances in the series, Harry's was a quantum leap forward for instance, but some moments fell incredibly flat, like the scene in Dumbledore's office at the end where Harry just sat there while Dumbledore prattled on in monotone. It was also a little too disciplined, in that the darker elements were kept at the expense of any levity. It made it a much drabber affair.
Quote:
I didn't like GoF particularly - despite good individual moments, I didn't care for the way Newell shaped the film as a whole and I thought many of the performances were pitched way too high (Gambon's in particualr).
It's interesting. People who loved GOF (like me) were generally disappointed by OOTP, and people who loved OOTP were generally disappointed by GOF. For me, plot is always subservient to character. I appreciated Newell's film because, not only was it top-notch popcorn spectacle, it put character first every step of the way. That film lost a lot of plot but I didn't miss it because all of the character arcs had continuity. By contrast, OOTP fit far more of the plot in, but only Harry was allowed any real character.
Quote:
I have to confess that I did miss John Williams - something I'd never thought I'd say. I thought the score to PoA was brilliant.
I actually didn't mind Hooper's score to OOTP, but I have to agree that neither his nor Doyle's score holds a candle to John William's POA score. With its Celtic instruments and the like, that was probably his best work in years.
Quote:
And I do wish Harry's hair was a bit messier, although I didn't think the long length in GoF was flattering to him at all.
I actually think it looks less neat in that picture than it did in OOTP. That said, his hair was the closest to how I pictured it in POA.
post #149 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Adam,

But, via the book, Harry really is the only real character in Order of the Phoenix. I get what you're saying. But, like The Empire Strikes Back, Phoenix is all character and has a very loose structure/plot. I mean, the structure of that book is Harry's dreams of the Department of Mysteries. That's it. It's the character piece of the entire series, so it made sense at this junction of the Potter series to have a character driven story first. And, ulimately, that's what Phoenix is. It was always going to be a problem. The details surrounding Harry's story are great (the politics and such) but are not as important to this particular story, to Harry's story. They have a purpose later. You have to get the most important ones in the story but still not loose the focus on Harry.

But, I will say that Yates made one mistake and that's not including one more scene of Harry dreaming about the Department of Mysteries, followed by another scene of Harry showing his aggrevation of not being able to see what's behind the door to Ron and Hermione, with Hermione reminding Harry that he has to close his mind.

But, I do agree with you that Prince should be an easier adaptation compared to Phoenix.

Phoenix is an important story, to be sure, but it's the hurdle book. It always felt that way and the film sort of reflects that but I feel was more entertaining.

Prince, I have a hunch, will be a lot like Cuaron's Azkaban. That film just came together so nicely because of the book itself and Prince is sort of the same way. It's got a great narrative that easily adaptable. And, I think Yates can do it.
post #150 of 344

Re: Harry Potter & The Half-Blood Prince discussion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire Panke
Hmmm...well...I'm a book fan...and I liked OOTP much more than I thought I would. I think the book was unwieldy as all get out and Yates did a fine job with it considering the problems with structure and length. He's very good with the actors too. Given the contraints of the avaerage modern attention span, I thought OOP was very good, second only to PoA, and the closing sequence in the MOM was wonderful.

I didn't like GoF particularly - despite good individual moments, I didn't care for the way Newell shaped the film as a whole and I thought many of the performances were pitched way too high (Gambon's in particualr).

If I can't have Cuaron I'll take Yates any day.

I have to confess that I did miss John Williams - something I'd never thought I'd say. I thought the score to PoA was brilliant.

And I do wish Harry's hair was a bit messier, although I didn't think the long length in GoF was flattering to him at all.

Small quibbles. I was a big fan of Yates work on the brilliant BBC series The Way We Live Now. I suspect, having survived OOTP, he will be even more confident with the more adaptable HBP. I'm looking foward to it.

Wow, I almost could've written this. I agree with pretty much everything you wrote except I did think I would miss Williams.
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