What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray?? - Page 4

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

I was responding to you/Doug when you mentioned FOX in this thread here:




not jealous. Just want to make sure we all extend the same courtesies and applied logic unilaterally. Doug expressed himself very well in a followup post and I concured with his reasoning.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Warner has a vested interest in the HD-DVD format and their late entry in the Blu-Ray camp as what seems like an after thought, is seemingly quite a well planned move. Warner is Hd-DVD's Trojan horse and it is quite evident from the way they have managed the whole 'supposed' neutral stance. There is absolutely no excuse for the same titles to be released with inferior sound on the Blu-Ray versions, specially considering that Blu-Ray actually has far more space to present multiple sound formats if needed. Also, if people would simply put aside their personal interests and feelings for a moment and think, Warner had absolutely no good reason to release the Matrix trilogy at this early stage of the format's life cycle. Assuming that they are genuinely neutral and that due to BD-J reasons they could not release to Blu-Ray yet, what was the great hurry to release Matrix? It's not like there is a whole lot of profit to be made from Matrix or any other title right now. Considering that Matrix is probably one of the highest profile titles that Warner has in their kitty, it is actully a very bad business decision for them to release Matrix so early in the HD format life cycle. Can you imagine any other studio releasing any of their top 5 titles on HD at this stage? Even Sony, with it's direct vested interests in Blu-Ray, have not released any of their big guns yet. Releasing Matrix to HD-DVD right now, is quite clearly for only one reason, to help the faltering HD-DVD format. I specially like the timing of the release co-inciding with the release of POTC to Blu-Ray. Anyone here thinks that was just a co-incidence?

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Warner released high profile titles early in DVD's life cycle to promote that format while other studios were holding back on bigger titles. It seems reasonable to assume that the same policies would apply to HD media.

Warner has stated that IME was the reason that some titles have not been released. Isn't it easier to simply believe them vs. inventing conspiracies against Bd? This question should be resolved this fall. For the non-IME titles I have no answer, but I believe that earlier speculation in this thread regarding sales figures is a reasonable consideration. Question: How many units has the largest selling non-IME HD DVD exclusive title from Warner Bros. sold?

Regarding sound formats, I believe that player standards for the two formats were a factor in some decisions regarding the inclusion or absence of lossless audio; although I may be mis-remembering.

- Walter.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

My guess is Sony would rather that go away. The 25gig to 30 gig comparisons have not fared well and I would bet BR would want them to look the same(not worse). They don't want another fiasco on their hands.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Yea. Sony with Casino Royale, Disney with both POC films, Universal with King Kong. Would you like more? BTW, I disagree with you that Matrix in one of the highest profile films in Warner's kitty. There are so many, it would be hard to count them all.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Ha, ha, ha, ha. Why are the conspiracy and hidden agenda reasons so much more attractive to some people than plain physical explanations?
Must be terribly psychological.

Not just "5 dirty reasons why some party did something that's really evil", but also "why something that's different than I personally would like, or different from what some party expected to be able to do, is really, really evil and 20 reasons - all devilish - why they do it", followed by: "they are evil, because they do those evil things" (question: "are those actions really evil?", reply: "yes, of course, look who's doing it!"). "But how do you know this?" Reply: "Oh, I suddenly figured it out during a sleepless night." Or other reply: "Someone in the know told me." "Do you trust that someone then?" "Yes, of course! (S)he explains all this interesting background information to me. Must be true, I gladly believe it!"




Cees

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Hi Cees,

I'm not saying Warner is evil or bad. But, I have yet to hear a strong rebuttal to each of my five points. Also, I believe Ron Epstein in a fairly recent post stated to the effect one particular studio told him they favor HD DVD. I'll take a guess.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

May I ask exactly what is wrong with Warners being in favor of HD-DVD if that is in fact the case? Bluray has tons of supporters. Fox, Disney Sony, MGM, Stars (no Halloween for HD-DVD ), and others. So Universal is HD-DVD exclusive and Warners may or may not support HD-DVD even though they've released product on Bluray.

Let's say Fox released Commando and Predator on HD-DVD but the sound wasn't as good as the Bluray release. Well - if you weren't satisfied, then you don't have to buy the disc. It's the same here. I realize it can be frustrating if a company says it's going to release on a particular format and then they don't do so, but that doesn't make it wrong. Both Fox and Disney will tell you that.

Cheers,

Jason

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Good for Warner.. They started as an HD exclusive studio and there does seem to be favoritism for HD DVD and I find nothing at all wrong with that.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Shocking.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Personally, I'd rather a person/entity be straight up rather than hide behind some bs claim of impartiality. But that's just me.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

I agree.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

True.


Yes, but that logic is a red-herring, as Dolby TrueHD on BD includes a "core" DD stream that's backwards compatible with all players. So there's no reason *not* to provide Dolby TrueHD since all BD players can produce usable sound, and those with TrueHD decoding can provide lossless quality.

Just because the first HD DVD player couldn't do 5.1 TrueHD didn't mean WB only provided 2.0 TrueHD on HD DVD.

I agree with you that the WB folks have used that reasoning to explain their lack of TrueHD support for BD early on. However, it's a false-reasoning given the growing stock of TrueHD compatible hardware and the backwards compatibility of TrueHD on BD with all BD players (in core mode).

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Warner, with their huge library of A-titles, as well as Paramount are the ones keeping BD alive currently. Warner could end the war and kill BD almost single-handedly tomorrow, by refusing to release any more titles on that format. Especially if they could convince Paramount of doing the same.

The BD catalog would virtually collapse. In the future, that would even be more. If it wouldn't kill the format, it would be a severe blow indeed. If it was their goal to harm the format - oh, boy could they do it!

I'm not saying that it would do them any specific good (or that I personally would like it), mind you. I'm just pointing out that, whatever you might say or think about their internal convictions, they're helping BD strongly and decisively (just like HD DVD).


Cees




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I am format neutral - it's many studios, that's who are not.
And a few fanboys and followers.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

So, if a studio publically announces equal support for both formats, but has not done so, that's okay just because HD DVD is the format of your choice? If Disney, for example, were to announce support for HD DVD yet not include lossless audio on certain HD DVD titles and not release 20-something titles on HD DVD including some big named hits, that would be pefectly fine since they started Blu-ray exclusive? Just asking.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

I'd argue Disney is keeping them alive. Their releases are indeed "better than perfect".

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Sony's release of Casino Royale was a Day/Date release and thus is justifed and should not be compared to catalog releses. The Disney release of the POC films is also understandable due to the theatrical release of the third and final instalment of the POC series. Now on the other hand, I do agree with you about Unversal's release of King Kong, it too like the Matrix release, does not seem to make much sense other than for the sole purpose of promoting the HD-DVD format.

About Matrix not being one of the higher profile films in the Warner catalougue, I am sure if you were to check the sales figures you will find Matrix to be in the five best selling Warner titles ever. On the other hand I am quite sure that Sony and Disney have quite a few titles that have sold far more than Casino Royale and the two POC films respectively. Even in th case of Universal's King Kong I am sure you will find that it is not near the top of the list of titles that they own.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

if Warner chooses to side with one particular format, that would be alright, since it is their perogative to do so. But claiming to support both and then treating one better than the other is wrong. Atleast that's what I feel. If they support/prefer a particular format, in this case, HD-DVD over Blu-Ray, then they ought to be open about it and stop making silly and unsustainable excuses for the step motherly treatment being meted out to Blu-Ray. By the way I personally prefer that Warner hold out on their Blu-Ray releases until the time they are willing to give them the same treatment as their HD-DVD releases. Atleast this way we would get the best possible release even if they are delayed.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

If Disney did, and the BD version had features the HD version didn't, I would buy the BD version. Pretty simple.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Being an owner of both systems, I really have no problem with Warner producing the titles the way they are. If one format lacks something the other has, I will buy the one with the better feature set. If they are equal, HD DVD will get the nod.

And since when should Warner spokes people be held to a higher level of honesty than the other studios. Every one has had serious lapses in honesty when talking about the formats.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

I believe Warner is not releasing some older films on BD simply because they do not believe they could sell enough to warrant pressing on more expensive BD discs. Their sales of classics have been abysmal on HD DVD: a format where they are absolutely certain of the main constituency, which is movie collectors. On BD, the constituency is harder to discern due to the gamer factor. The biggest selling BD player has been the PS3, but it is impossible to determine what percentage of machines were bought solely for the purpose of playing movies. Warner may have decided, based on poor sales to a known constituency, to play it safe and not release the same films to a constituency whose makeup cannot be accurately dtermined. Warner probably still has a lot of HD DVD coasters sitting in inventory. Maybe they just do not want a repeat performance on BD.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

You have a legitimately valid point, and one I had not given consideration to.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Cees,

excellent points.


Thomas,

excellent points.


Excellent points.

I keep saying that word. I do not think it means what I think it means.



BTW, i have a feeling that it's just because those classics are selling more slowly (on HD DVD) and WB is probably (rightfully) putting their BD manufacturing efforts towards titles that will sell in greater volume for the moment, given the more limited availability of BD production than HD DVD at the moment.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

I think your point here is very valid, but at the risk of sounding like a broken record.....I don't think the classic films are selling at any different a market share than they are on SD DVD. When the biggest selling HD title sells 100,000 copies, why is anyone surprised by the numbers that have been thrown around for films like Casablanca. 300 copies? Honestly I don't know if that number is correct or not, but I think if you compared the sales of that title with the SD version it would have a similar market share relative to the size of the market.

The point being, I don't think the classics are selling abysmally, just at the same rate in a much smaller market.

Doug

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Edwin, I believe that is part of it. Which is why I refer to the PS3 as a "double-edged sword" for movie enthusiasts, such as myself, who are BD supporters. I do hope that as standalone BD player prices come down this "constituency", as you put it, will broaden.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

I agree with all of the points made here.

Warner may simply wait for a broader market penetration before releasing these classic titles to BD - the same policy will probably go for both formats on possible future classic titles.

According to Robert Zohn at VE, Casablanca sold quite a bit more than 300 copies. He said that he has sold this many of this title from his store alone.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Agreed. Given the low volume of HD sales in comparison to SD DVD at the moment, it would make sense that WB would put effort into releasing titles right now on BD that are in greater demand, and then back-fill catalog releases later once overall volume starts to pick up (and replication issues start to become non-issues).

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

David,

Excellent points!





Cees




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I am format neutral - it's many studios, that's who are not.
And a few fanboys and followers.

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

Wow. Kum ba yah times here on the forum. Should we all go to a Turkish Bath together?

Cheers,

Jason

Re: What is the problem w/ Warner and Blu-Ray??

^Nah, we just decided to get all riled up in "Hastings" thread instead.