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"burn-in?"

post #1 of 26
6/23/07 at 5:04pm
Thread Starter 
i have a rear projection Mitsubisti widescreen and will soon be looking for a new display device. Being a tube display, i (as stated in the manuual that accompanied the device) try to keep the screen filled. This means "expanding" television and older movies. i tend to think that my viewing time is 1 hour viewing widescreen material per 2 hrs of 4x3. i like older movies, etc.

i am really tired of "expandind" older original material to avoid burn-in. When looking for a new display device, i would rather not do this. How should this effect my purchase of a plasma, LCD, etc?

Any advice would be welcome.
thanks!
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post #2 of 26
6/23/07 at 7:04pm

Re: "burn-in?"

Plasmas and CRT's will burnin; LCD's, DLP's (projection or flatscreen) will not.
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post #3 of 26
6/23/07 at 7:09pm

Re: "burn-in?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
Plasmas and CRT's will burnin; LCD's, DLP's (projection or flatscreen) will not.
Plasmas are much more resistent to burn-in anymore, to the point that it really isn't a problem. Follow the recommended break-in procedure for the first 100 hours of viewing, and adjust the brightness properly and you should be fine.

As an owner of a Sony SXRD HDTV (LCoS technology), I'd like to mention that not only is there no burn-in with LCoS, the picture is jaw-dropping.
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post #4 of 26
6/24/07 at 12:10am

Re: "burn-in?"

FYI: there is a Burn-in FAQ thread stickied at the top of this forum...
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post #5 of 26
6/24/07 at 7:45am

Re: "burn-in?"

actually...LCoS displays do suffer from burn in.
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post #6 of 26
6/24/07 at 3:09pm
Thread Starter 

Re: "burn-in?"

thanks all for the info.
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post #7 of 26
6/24/07 at 9:37pm

Re: "burn-in?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Loewen
actually...LCoS displays do suffer from burn in.
You're the only person I have ever seen say that. I've had my SXRD for months and have left static images onscreen for long periods of time with no burn in. If LCoS can, in fact, be burned in, it must be the result of some hellacious abuse.
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post #8 of 26
6/24/07 at 9:57pm

Re: "burn-in?"

Now Gregg, I know you're a professional calibrator and you know whereof you speak, but can you tell me , technically, how a system that is not based on phosphors can have actual burn-in? I thought it was physicallly impossible for systems like LCD RP (and LCoS, a variant of LCD) to burn-in, even though various degrees of image persistance (generally temporary) are possible.

Can you provide more information?

Joe
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post #9 of 26
6/25/07 at 8:01am

Re: "burn-in?"

Greetings

I have seen some measure of "burn in" (or something that looks like it) on computer LCD monitors over the years so it does happen. (Not a professional opinion ... just observation)

To avoid quick burn in ... choose LCD or DLP type technologies.

Plasmas are more resistent to burn in ... but if a person prefers not to stretch images ...then you can expect that his cable and satellite viewing will be similar. That is a lot of time with the black bars on the sides of the image.

No plasma is that resistent. It's call uneven wear and you can't expect the part that is being used to look like the part not being used if you don't change the habits.

Regards
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post #10 of 26
6/25/07 at 7:16pm

Re: "burn-in?"

hey guys.

LCD panels can get burn in....(according to the engineering department at an
extremely large commercial lCD panel manufacturer).

The LCOS panel I saw get burned was an SXRD unit and you could clearly see the Input # option on the display. This was in a retail show room.

regards

Gregg
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post #11 of 26
6/25/07 at 8:39pm

Re: "burn-in?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Loewen
The LCOS panel I saw get burned was an SXRD unit and you could clearly see the Input # option on the display. This was in a retail show room.
God knows display models are subjected to far more abuse than the units people have in their homes. I've heard LCoS can experience image retention, but it goes away after a while.

I doubt the problem you saw on a floor model would ever be an issue for home users.
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post #12 of 26
6/26/07 at 5:30am

Re: "burn-in?"

it would be an issue to any person purchasing that show floor model :-)
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post #13 of 26
6/26/07 at 6:23am

Re: "burn-in?"

Greetings

I've had plenty of customers that buy floor models ... so it is always a real concern.

There are advantages to taking floor models at times as well. Particularly if you think you are sensitive to dead or stuck pixels.

Regards
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post #14 of 26
6/26/07 at 8:53am

Re: "burn-in?"

It is true that LCD and LCOS can burn in, however realistically in a home use environment this is extremely unlikely. In a commercial environment, with still images over long period of time it can occur, and more than just image retention. But even with floor models at stores, I would probably not be overly concerned. The risk is not at all the same as it is with phosphor-based displays which certainly DO wear with time. If one wants to avoid burn-in issues, going with LCD/LCOS or DLP is probably the best bet, even though it is possible to burn an image into these displays(I don't know that I've ever seen a DLP burnt in though in the image, just on the chip's neutral position which is different and not particularly problematic.)
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post #15 of 26
7/25/08 at 8:46am

Re: "burn-in?"

Sorry to bump this old thread, but my Sony KDS-55A2020 IS burnt in, and I've been scouring the internet for days trying to figure out if there is a solution to this. I run my Mac Pro through one of the HDMI inputs, and as the desktop does not completely fill the screen, when I play Blu-ray Discs now, I can see the outline of the desktop quite clearly. There is a rectangular space centred in the screen that is lighter, or more dull than the outer portion of the screen. Also, across the top portion, there is a faint outline of where the OS X menu bar would normally be. This has really angered me, as when I was researching this everyone said "only plasmas and CRTs suffer from burn-in" and now, I'm finding out that Sony will not cover this (my set isn't even a year old) because they claim burn-in doesn't even exist on these sets!
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post #16 of 26
7/25/08 at 9:42am

Re: "burn-in?"

Greetings

Under warranty ... get a service person to come over and tell you it is normal.

Can't use the abuse angle because they say the TV can't have image retention like this. Get the repair man. don't say it is burn in ... just call it shadowing or something.

regards
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post #17 of 26
7/25/08 at 12:47pm

Re: "burn-in?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenRedux
This has really angered me, as when I was researching this everyone said "only plasmas and CRTs suffer from burn-in"
Who was "everyone?" Popular opinion was wrong? Manufacturer claims weren't accurate? Sometimes we just don't know what works or doesn't work until we try it.
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post #18 of 26
7/25/08 at 5:57pm

Re: "burn-in?"

On the other hand, people often forget the other half of the burn-in equation. "They" always say that DLP projectors won't burn in.

But guess what! Front projection screens can burn in, too. I've got a 90" at work that's illuminated by a 5000 lumen DLP that after four years, you can see the base image clearly on the (insert name of major brand here) screen material.

Freaks people out when you point it out when the projector is turned off.

But I guess the moral of the hijacked thread is that just about any display will burn-in and/or suffer spot/localized failures. But does it happen before you're ready to replace the unit? That's a different question.

Leo
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post #19 of 26
7/25/08 at 7:09pm

Re: "burn-in?"

Hijacked? I went back through every post and fail to see any that was not relevant to the original topic.
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post #20 of 26
7/26/08 at 10:42am

Re: "burn-in?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV
Greetings

Under warranty ... get a service person to come over and tell you it is normal.

Can't use the abuse angle because they say the TV can't have image retention like this. Get the repair man. don't say it is burn in ... just call it shadowing or something.

regards

So, I could possibly get it repaired under the warranty? I don't suppose I should even bother mentioning the fact that I run my Mac Pro through, they may try to void my warranty, even though they claim no burn in. I'll give it a try and see what they say, then I suppose I'd better start looking for an LCD panel to run my computer through to avoid this problem in the future. I have the 3-year extended warranty, so I might as well give it a shot.
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post #21 of 26
7/26/08 at 10:51am

Re: "burn-in?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB
Who was "everyone?" Popular opinion was wrong? Manufacturer claims weren't accurate? Sometimes we just don't know what works or doesn't work until we try it.

This was far from just "popular opinion" being wrong, when even C-Net was claiming burn-in on these sets as a "pervasive myth" and Sony was and is refusing to repair burn-in on these sets under their warranties because they claim it doesn't exist. It has reached the level of denial, misinformation and deception on the part of the manufacturer. Sony must know the issue exists, and I'm sure they knew when they first started selling the sets. These companies do extensive R&D, they don't just plop things down into the market.

Do just about ANY search on the internet, and you will read "LCDs, LCoS and DLPs do not suffer from burn-in". Over on AVS, there are numerous posts by people claiming the same, and the few people who say, yes, they have experienced burn-in on the SXRDs were shouted down or labeled trolls. Now things may be starting to change, as people are claiming that the problem isn't necessarily "burn-in" as we know it, but something very similar and more people are experiencing it. Sony will have to respond to this and admit that it is an issue.
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post #22 of 26
7/26/08 at 6:08pm

Re: "burn-in?"

I'm quite familiar with the whole scenario. The opinion accepted, dominant, and pervasive (popular), throughout the community of respected authorities, not just consumers, repeated claims of immunity from "burn in" for non-phosphor based display technologies. 'Image retention' might be a more comprehensive term to use. From a practical viewpoint, when you compare the relative ease with which image retention can be induced on phosphor based displays vs. the length of time and exposure other display technologies require to show similar effects, there is quite a profound difference.
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post #23 of 26
9/12/08 at 10:33am

Re: "burn-in?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB
I'm quite familiar with the whole scenario. The opinion accepted, dominant, and pervasive (popular), throughout the community of respected authorities, not just consumers, repeated claims of immunity from "burn in" for non-phosphor based display technologies. 'Image retention' might be a more comprehensive term to use. From a practical viewpoint, when you compare the relative ease with which image retention can be induced on phosphor based displays vs. the length of time and exposure other display technologies require to show similar effects, there is quite a profound difference.

A profound difference? I've had my SXRD for less than a year.
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post #24 of 26
9/12/08 at 11:05am

Re: "burn-in?"

Phospohor based displays can be caused to evidence image retention in a matter of hours. Yes, I think one could safely call that a profound difference.
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post #25 of 26
9/12/08 at 11:09am

Re: "burn-in?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB
Phospohor based displays can be caused to evidence image retention in a matter of hours. Yes, I think one could safely call that a profound difference.

Whether it manifests itself in eight hours or eight months, the end result is still the same and that is the profound thing, IMO.
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post #26 of 26
9/14/08 at 8:20pm

Re: "burn-in?"

Thanks, very helpful subject.
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