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Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008 - Page 3

post #61 of 284
6/19/08 at 11:55am

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
That's fine for people with THX systems which most do not have.

Well, even *without* THX re-equalization, the original soundtracks (PCM and AC-3 on LD, and Dolby Digital on first DVD) sound natural with smooth, liquid midrange versus the "wooden" and flat sound of the new DVD.

If the nearfield experience can be further improved from the original mix by THX balancing (haven't tried it) fantastic. But at this point I don't trust the Disney mixing/masting crew to push the buttons to do it!
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post #62 of 284
6/19/08 at 11:57am

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Again they could have used a hard matte to arrive at the 2.55:1 ratio, but they are suggesting that the native ratio is 2.55:1 and that is just wrong.

Indeed, this is a matter that will require serious vetting. Rest assured when the disc is released that (hopefully my) review will reflect the reality of how the 2.55:1 aspect ratio was achieved, once image captures are possible.
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post #63 of 284
6/19/08 at 3:09pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I too am a little baffled as to how they would get a 2.55:1 ratio with out cropping the top and bottom of the frame. Why would they push in on the negative on the original Technirama release to match the frame height of the then CinemaScope ratio of 2.55:1. The more likely is that the CinemaScope prints cropped the top and bottom to get the wider ratio. But I suppose anything is possible.

Are they suggesting that the Technirama 70 prints were cropped at 2.55:1? Surely the 70mm release prints were 2.21:1, which would be close to the full Technirama frame. The frame shown on the Widescreen Museum is nothing like 2.55.

Doug

I have truly no idea about the production of Disney animation back then but maybe the camera had to film some kind of drawings/still pictures or whatever and they used these elements to arrive at the wider HD master for Sleeping Beauty, basically the original artwork that had compostions for the 2.55:1 early scope ratio. As you pointed out correctly there is no way to get a wider AR than 2.25 out of Technirama without some cropping. Having more picture information would mean to add information to the left and/or the right, not cropping the top and/or bottom.

It will be easy to see if Disney added or subtracted compared to previous version of the movie so I am not really worried about this and I suspect they at least did not rely exclusively on the OCN.
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post #64 of 284
6/19/08 at 4:07pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
I have truly no idea about the production of Disney animation back then but maybe the camera had to film some kind of drawings/still pictures or whatever and they used these elements to arrive at the wider HD master for Sleeping Beauty, basically the original artwork that had compostions for the 2.55:1 early scope ratio. As you pointed out correctly there is no way to get a wider AR than 2.25 out of Technirama without some cropping. Having more picture information would mean to add information to the left and/or the right, not cropping the top and/or bottom.

It will be easy to see if Disney added or subtracted compared to previous version of the movie so I am not really worried about this and I suspect they at least did not rely exclusively on the OCN.

The original art work for an animated film is almost never in a specific aspect ratio. More often the art work will reflect any camera moves that might be made. For example for a pan down the art work may actually be 5 times taller than it is wide. Or it may go in a diagonal direction if the camera is intended to pan down and to the left for instance.

The art work for Sleeping Beauty would probably more often than not be somewhat wider than for Snow White, just because of the nature of the wide format, but a specific 2.55:1 ratio would not come from the art work.

Doug
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post #65 of 284
6/19/08 at 7:49pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Even if the artwork was wider, it's not like Disney's going back to the original artwork and reanimating the whole thing; we're still limited to what was captured on the original sequential Technirama negative and materials derived from it (I don't even know if the original sequential negative survives to this day).

I believe the current DVD was sourced from 35mm elements, and the current transfer displays some cropping (most noticeably at the bottom during the opening titles). Here's hoping they can source this transfer from more accurate elements.
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post #66 of 284
6/19/08 at 7:59pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

The difference between the two ratios is very small, and certainly more than would be cropped in a regular theatrical presentation.

It may well be that very narrow top and bottom mattes have been added to prevent splice marks intruding into the picture.
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post #67 of 284
6/19/08 at 8:01pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Whether the Disney reps were correct or mistaken is another matter. But they were insistant, and explicit, that the native photographed film elements were 2.55:1 and that this Blu-ray Disc will reveal the full image area with no cropping.
That's good!
Now let's hope they don't 'crop' the sound! ;-)
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post #68 of 284
6/19/08 at 8:13pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianK
The difference between the two ratios is very small, and certainly more than would be cropped in a regular theatrical presentation.

It may well be that very narrow top and bottom mattes have been added to prevent splice marks intruding into the picture.

Acutally the difference between 2.25:1 and 2.35:1 aren't that much. 2.55:1 is a completely different story. That is quite a big difference.

You wouldn't see splice marks on the 2.35:1 ratio seeing as the full aspect ratio of Technirama is 2.25:1. The only reason for matting or protecting for 2.55:1 is if they intended it to be shown in that CinemaScope ratio. Which by the time the film was release, wasn't the ratio of CinemaScope anymore.

Doug
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post #69 of 284
6/20/08 at 7:48am
Thread Starter 

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Check the last page of this thread at UD where the poster found a website with this info > Release Formats table

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post #70 of 284
6/20/08 at 1:08pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettB
Check the last page of this thread at UD where the poster found a website with this info > Release Formats table

Interesting that it lists the wrong aspect ratio for both Technirama and Super Technirama 70.

The difference between the two is that Technirama is a reduction to anamorphic 35mm release prints (at 2.35:1) and Super Technirama 70 is a conversion 70mm release prints (at 2.21:1). As far as I know Technirama was never shown in its native format in the United States.

Doug

Edit: I missed the lower part of the list where they have the correct aspect ratios listed for the release prints. However I'm not sure why they have a separate listing for Technirama and Super Technirama under Cinematographic Processes, when they are exactly the same cameras, lenses and film stock. The only difference being the format the release prints are printed to.
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post #71 of 284
8/11/08 at 12:45pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

FYI: Looks like Sleeping Beauty (Blu-ray) will be packaged as a Three-Disc Combo.

(New 2-Disc Blu-ray plus a Bonus DVD)



Now posted @ Amazon.com
(The above link is taken from High-Def Digest)

Paul
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post #72 of 284
8/11/08 at 1:19pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

That is cool. I wish all "kids' movies" included a dvd copy. I want to buy them on Blu-ray, but we need to have them on SD as well.
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post #73 of 284
8/11/08 at 2:01pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

That is a great idea for Disney movies.

I am all for it as long as it doesn't add to the price. And in this case, it looks like it doesn't.
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post #74 of 284
8/11/08 at 2:26pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Could the "bonus DVD of the movie" be a digital copy of the film? That kind of feature (which I think is unnecessary) has become more and more commonplace.
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post #75 of 284
8/11/08 at 2:53pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

a copy of the movie on SD-DVD is not only terrific for us parents to add versatility but it is brilliant as a way to eliminates "pirates'" excuse that they needed to break the BD protection to make an SD-DVD back to watch a movie they paid for in another room of their house.

Yes I know they'll always have an excuse but this I thought was a fairly legitimate one. So now you buy this and you can enjoy it at home in the HT room, the kids can also watch it in the play room or in the carr on the portable player.

GREAT JOB DISNEY!!!
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post #76 of 284
8/11/08 at 5:38pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hillenbrand
FYI: Looks like Sleeping Beauty (Blu-ray) will be packaged as a Three-Disc Combo.

(New 2-Disc Blu-ray plus a Bonus DVD)

Wow. That's cool news! Thanks, Paul!
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post #77 of 284
8/11/08 at 5:45pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Wonder if that bonus DVD will be 2.35:1 (or whatever aspect ratio it ends up being on BD) WS...

fingers crossed...
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post #78 of 284
8/11/08 at 6:19pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

This is hair-lair-e-us!!!
People HATED HD-DVD combo's cause they had too pay for an SD version they had or didn't want. But now its a GREAT idea (I understand: give one to the kid & kept the BD for u). Just think its funny cause last yr...
I'm against the digital copy/SD DVD, cause "I" don't want to pay for something "I" don't want.
Really looking forward to this release however, almost no better title to start off w/from the Disney vault.
Hey, people raved about the SD release & I suppose this will use that transfer as well; any digital artifacts we should worry about?
Thanks.
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post #79 of 284
8/11/08 at 6:26pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair
This is hair-lair-e-us!!!
People HATED HD-DVD combo's cause they had too pay for an SD version they had or didn't want. But now its a GREAT idea (I understand: give one to the kid & kept the BD for u). Just think its funny cause last yr...
I'm against the digital copy/SD DVD, cause "I" don't want to pay for something "I" don't want.
Really looking forward to this release however, almost no better title to start off w/from the Disney vault.
Hey, people raved about the SD release & I suppose this will use that transfer as well; any digital artifacts we should worry about?
Thanks.

I hate any, and all double sided discs. But this isnt the case. Its an extra disc. As long as they dont jack up the price...im OK with it. I will give the DVD to my kids.
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post #80 of 284
8/11/08 at 6:36pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Hey people, don't start a combo hate thread here.
They are dead & buried!

I just thought the three disc (one SD DVD) & two disc (one digital copy) formats are pretty pushing it; considering what's been posted in the "past".
Hopefully those battles are also in the past!
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post #81 of 284
8/11/08 at 7:24pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair
Hey people, don't start a combo hate thread here.
They are dead & buried!

Ed, i didnt say i hate HD DVD combos...never owned one. I said i hate double sided discs. They are flawed on DVD, and they seem to have had problems on HD too. But once again, its not an issue on this disc. Cause its not ONE disc, its TWO...sorry its THRE!. I just wanted to point out that many people have an issue of double sided discs, its not HD Combo hate.
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post #82 of 284
8/11/08 at 7:42pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

I can not wait to get many Disney classics on Blu-ray. I actually do not own many Disney titles on SD-DVD so I really do not have to worry about double dipping to much. But I am hoping that Disney will remaster some of there biggest classics for Blu-ray in the next 4 years. Sleeping Beauty is one of there big classics and if it does not come out this year. I hope they do not delay it for to long.
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post #83 of 284
8/11/08 at 7:46pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

I'd agree with you Ed...if it in any way meant the price was higher than it was going to be without the bonus SD disc. But I thought amazon's $23.95 pre-order price was probably what they'd be charging for a 2-disc BD release anyway.

Having never participated in any HD-DVD combo discussions (either for or against), I don't think it's a perfect analogy in this case because of the price issue differential. Combo HD-DVDs were of a much higher price than non-combo HD-DVDs.
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post #84 of 284
8/11/08 at 8:53pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

There is some irony for sure.......but I eagerly await this classic on Blu-ray.
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post #85 of 284
8/12/08 at 1:09am

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickER
I hate any, and all double sided discs.

Here here. Nothing but problems with those. Death to "double sided discs".
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post #86 of 284
8/12/08 at 10:47am

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Whether a digital download or a SD DVD, I would not mind them throwing in an SD copy for portability/something to watch on other TVs when I am traveling.

...

Unless the digital download is not iTunes/iPod compatible, in which case the disc might as well be a coaster.

Regards,
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post #87 of 284
8/12/08 at 11:13am

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

This is neither a re-master nor an old transfer.

The tech staff at Disney has done everything in their power to make this very special, returning to the original 8 perf negative and earliest audio elements.

Sleeping Beauty portends to be a stunning Blu-ray set.
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post #88 of 284
8/12/08 at 11:15am

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Awesome!
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post #89 of 284
8/12/08 at 1:08pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Oh, baby!
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post #90 of 284
8/12/08 at 2:27pm

Re: Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
I'd agree with you Ed...if it in any way meant the price was higher than it was going to be without the bonus SD disc. But I thought amazon's $23.95 pre-order price was probably what they'd be charging for a 2-disc BD release anyway.
That's a GREAT price for a single BD!!! ;-)

Wish this had the R2 cover of the SD DVD.
Anyone remember seeing it (or having it)?
Wicked!
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