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post #91 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilO
Well, from the end of tonight's episode it looks like the newly regrown Isabelle may be getting her powers back in the next couple of episodes. Now, how are they going to get the "Mathew Ross" personality out of Tom Baldwin? Can Shawn do that down the line? They can't leave him in there, can they?
I certainly hope they don't leave him as future-in-vitro-mad-scientist-guy. He's by far the most interesting protagonist the show has, strattled as he is between all sides of the issue. He's fascinating because he's so conflicted. Assuming the technology to possess him is the same as the technology that was used to possess his son, Shawn should be able to exorcise the newly-dominant persona.
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I know we all thought Cassie was bad news and tonight's episode seemed to prove it. First her information got Isabelle to the marked Tom Baldwin with the probable goal of her getting her 4400-destruction powers back. Next, she wants to get rid of Shawn. I can't see how she will be able to convince Kyle that killing Shawn will be the right thing to do. Things are definitely getting more complicated and heating up.
It definitely seems like she's working for the bad guys from the future. The question is: might this shorthand gain for the bad guys ultimately serve to help the movement? What if Tom being possessed is the mechanism by which he takes the promicin shot? Will it be worth all the negative things that will also happen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Toth
Yep ... Cassie does appear to be bad news. I don't think we've ever seen what happens if Kyle doesn't listen to her/do what she says. I wonder if she could actually harm him and/or force him to do it???
If so, it looks like Kyle really, really shouldn't have taken the shot.
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Not that I really want him to stay that way, but am I the only one who kind of liked the "badass" Tom Baldwin??? Yeah, yeah, I know it's not really him, but it still was fun seeing "Tom" take down Richard and Cora and then hiding Isabelle away at his house.
It gave me nasty flashbacks to his role as bastard incarnate in Steven Spielberg's "Taken".
It took me a good two seasons of this show to think of the actor as anything else besides a complete manipulative scumbag.
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And again, don't know if it's just me, but has Diana become just a supporting player this season?? Other than the first episode or two (when she was looking for her sister) it seems like she's barely around.
Except for her role as the guardian of Maia, I've always looked at her as the Other Agent. Sort of like the Olivia Benson to Tom's Elliot Stabler.

Sort of a coup getting Laura Allen back for an episode. I don't think it's a coincidence that the flashback scenes to her impregnation happened in the same episode where a vision of Lily temporarily comes into Richard's life.

I think the biggest revelation of this episode was that Jordan Collier fully supports the complete genocide of a full 50% of the human race. That's a pretty huge change even from last summer's season finale.
post #92 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

i agree with the taken comment. baldwin's scumbag character was so well done that it stayed with me here... then i liked this character better... but now they're re-treading? >). anyways....

this season is the best 4400 season yet =). very nice.

re: jordan, there's always somn interesting about his method of rationalization. he's always been the shadiest character on 4400 from the start. you could never trust him 100%.
post #93 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Jordan's call for a "generation of sacrifice" was pretty shocking, considering his past sermons about how 4400s and non-4400s alike must work together to secure a better future. Logically, he's got to know that his vision of everyone taking the shot won't come to pass unless everyone is forced to take the shot. Many people will simply decide not to take the shot because they have enough to live for not to risk it on a 50/50 coin toss. Indeed, Shawn's plan is likely to result in more people gaining an ability, because risk would be all but eliminated. Under Jordan's plan, many people who would gain an ability would never take the shot because of the risk. Under Shawn's plan, with the risk eliminated, a much higher percentage of those who will benefit will decide to take the shot.

Jordan spoke earlier of a small class of super-elites hogging all the resources and enforcing their will upon the masses in the future. I wonder if Jordan is unwittingly making that future a reality by creating an elite class of enhanced humans?
post #94 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

you outlined it perfectly. i think the issue has to do with inconsistency of character traits. jordan didn't even know what he was supposed to be doing while he was running around w/those 2 runaways... but now that he's back, driven by kyle's "visions" he's even more inconsistent than he was before. there's just a lot of back and forth. either way, i think it's great stuff because things are changing so fast! talk about pacing+plots. things are taking off quickly.
post #95 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

I wonder how Isabelle getting her powers back will play into this. Will she still be evil?
post #96 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Holy cow, a breakneck episode tonight. Tons of conspiracy setup, threats made, those in the way killed.

And now we have a pretty good idea of how "The Marked" operate as body snatchers, who's who.. and who "Tom" is now. Setting up Izabelle.. will she have no choice? Or is there a way out..

post #97 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Holy cow, a breakneck episode tonight. Tons of conspiracy setup, threats made, those in the way killed.

And now we have a pretty good idea of how "The Marked" operate as body snatchers, who's who.. and who "Tom" is now. Setting up Isabelle.. will she have no choice? Or is there a way out..
It was quite impressive. Will NTAC figure out the names of the Marked? Isabelle looks to be in a real bad situation. Will she confide in Kyle? I'm betting that she will defy the Marked and die in the season finale.

Will Kyle figure out that "Cassie" has led them to a bad situation? If Isabelle kills anyone in Promise City, he should realize what has happened.

Will Collier be marked? That is such a wild idea to turn things on their head.
If Collier does get marked then they don't really need Isabelle to start killing 4400s - at least not until the marked Collier does enough damage to the movement.

Can Shawn cure Tom? Diana has to think of that as a possibility, though how could they have him gain access? They'd have to knock Tom out first.

And due to the holiday weekend, we get to wait two weeks until the next episode.

Neil
post #98 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Quite an episode. Things are definitely moving toward the finale now. I wonder how Maia's relationship with the Lily-eqsue illusion of her original parents plays into this? As it stood now, it served as a reminder of how old some of the 4400 actually are.
We all thought that markedTom wanted Isabelle to capture Jordan Collier to finish him off. The truth proved to be far more sinister. A particularly dark touch was zooming in on the photo of the Bill Gates-type's family. How long have they had a dad that's not their dad? Will they ever know why he abandoned them?
Clearly there are a finite number of body snatchers; an old host needs to be elliminated before a new host can be infiltrated.
post #99 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Holy cow! I didn't ever imagine that this episode would end the way it did. I kept thinking they would "pretty bow" a lot of things and come up with some wonders.

This has been a GREAT season for 4400.
post #100 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Am I the only one who thought "Tom" was going to kill Maia? I wonder why it looked like they had Jordan under an ICU situation. Will Tom bleed out before they can get shit straightened out? And what's Kyle's apparition's agenda?
post #101 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
Am I the only one who thought "Tom" was going to kill Maia? I wonder why it looked like they had Jordan under an ICU situation. Will Tom bleed out before they can get shit straightened out? And what's Kyle's apparition's agenda?


I thought "Tom" was going to kill Maia too ... I guess they (they - meaning the future people) figured that would just drive Diana after "Tom" too much and wouldn't help their mission in the long run.
To me, it looks like they had Jordan in the same operating room environment that Tom was in when he received his "mark" (which now appears to be some form of nanite/miniature robot). I guess that initial shot that "Tom" gave him was just some form of sedative.
I actually hope they're able to save Tom (I like Joel Gretsch too much in the role for him to be killed off) but he did take two in the gut and it *is* the season finale next week. I hadn't heard he was leaving, but it seems like it's always possible on this show.
As far as Kyle's powers go - I think she might actually be working with the same people that "Tom" and the National Security Director (or whoever she is) are working with. She's been leading Kyle to believe that he's helping the movement when maybe all along she's just been playing him to get Jordan out of the picture????
post #102 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Toth
I thought "Tom" was going to kill Maia too ... I guess they (they - meaning the future people) figured that would just drive Diana after "Tom" too much and wouldn't help their mission in the long run.
Also, if he had killed Maia then Diana would have done some drastic action right away. By telling Maia to keep a secret and giving her to inhibitor he bought a lot of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Toth
I actually hope they're able to save Tom (I like Joel Gretsch too much in the role for him to be killed off) but he did take two in the gut and it *is* the season finale next week. I hadn't heard he was leaving, but it seems like it's always possible on this show.
Well, I always thought they would need to go to Shawn to help out in the situation and I really don't know why they didn't have him waiting to help. Now, they definitely are going to need to his help. I can't see them killing Tom off. He is too important to the series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Toth
As far as Kyle's powers go - I think she might actually be working with the same people that "Tom" and the National Security Director (or whoever she is) are working with. She's been leading Kyle to believe that he's helping the movement when maybe all along she's just been playing him to get Jordan out of the picture????
That seems to be the case more and more. He must be starting to realize that she is leading him down a dangerous path.

Now the big question is what is going to happen with Jordon. If they do save Tom, will he be able to turn Isabelle back into "good" quickly enough for people to know what has happened to Jordon and to reverse that process?

There are lots of balls in the air and it seems incredible that there is only one episode left. How much will be resolved?

Neil
post #103 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

with future tom "dead", that means isabella has no failsafe switch, that means she can make her own choices? man, this season has geared up to be a huge arc =). i really dig it. it has certainly come a LOOOONG ways from season1. why do TV series take 3 seasons to figure things out when shows like Lost, BSG, Heroes figured things out from the get-go?
post #104 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

How about the irony of Shawn's brother new found "ability". It seems his is the totally opposite of Shawn's. Shawn can heal people. His brother seems to either make them really ill or kill them, from the looks of his mother's reaction when he went to visit her.

Tom HAS to survive. He's the main character and one of my favorites.

This season has been great!
post #105 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Wait, when did we find that out? I didn't see that in this week's episode.
post #106 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

we don't. he was taking a stab @it =P.
post #107 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Right. Just my assumption after seeing how the mother got really sick within seconds of Shawn's brother showing up. IMO, it'd really make sense in an ironic kind of way to give him this "destructive" ability after Shawn told him multiple times not to take the shot. That, plus Shawn's ability to heal would make the brothers total opposites.
post #108 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Just an absolutely brilliant episode. This entire season was on fire as far as writing goes, they really found how to use the first two seasons as solid setup, and they've now changed the course of how you could view this show.

Tonight's episode was from start to finish well thought out and incredibly well scripted. The script was tight, focused and it made you feel on the edge of your seat as to what the heck was going on.

I mean, we knew in the end what was happening: the positives were taking over the city, but it's how it came about.. and the rise of the more telegenic, beer-hall-puscht Jordan Collier that was rousing for the people as well as troubling for how dismissive it was for the thousands of dead.

Incredibly well written. This opens up all sorts of avenues for how to go from here.
post #109 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

I just realized something about last night's episode. When Collier spoke on the capital steps and called those who died "Heralds" of a new great future.. what would that new great future be? Are they Heralds of more with abilities, or Heralds of the death of those genetically not-predestined to get abilities?
post #110 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Great finale. I thought they were going to make us wait until next season to see what abilities the NTAC agents were going to get. Still stinks we have to wait another year for new episodes.

On a side note. Can you imagine getting an ability and its a lame one?
post #111 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

You mean like turning pens into flowers?

I watch this show, but I think I'm not enamored with it because I seldom feel much for the characters since the plot swings and changes are so fast and furious. So when stuff happens, I just brush it off, waiting for the next shoe to drop and seeing how it all plays out.
post #112 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Quote:
Can you imagine getting an ability and its a lame one?
Better than a bad one, like Shawn's brother. The character was kinda annoying: "I want to be special!". OK kid, now you're special. Oops, now you're a killer. Wait -- now you're dead.
post #113 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

I liked that twist, though.. it basically tells us not all powers have any good to them.. some may just be bad powers from the beginning.
post #114 of 147
Thread Starter 

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Great episode. Great season.

More please.
post #115 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres Munoz
Right. Just my assumption after seeing how the mother got really sick within seconds of Shawn's brother showing up.
Ah. Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. As Sunday's episode made clear, it was close but no cigar anyway.
Quote:
IMO, it'd really make sense in an ironic kind of way to give him this "destructive" ability after Shawn told him multiple times not to take the shot. That, plus Shawn's ability to heal would make the brothers total opposites.
I think during season one we saw that Shawn has the power to both kill and heal, and it was reiterated here tonight.
Which doesn't make the ability Shawn's brother actually had any less ironic. Here's a kid who was pining all season "Let me take promicin! Give me promicin!" And he got it all right. In such levels that it killed him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Just an absolutely brilliant episode. This entire season was on fire as far as writing goes, they really found how to use the first two seasons as solid setup, and they've now changed the course of how you could view this show.
Each season finale for this show has radically reshaped the game. The season one finale revealed that future humans were at the root of the abductions, not aliens, and they had a purpose for the 4400. The season two finale setup up the war before promicin positives and negatives. The season three finale revealed that anyone could gain a 4400 ability, if they were willing to risk dying. Now the season four finale sets up a genetic hierarchy, and gives the movement started in the season three finale a certain inevitability.
Quote:
Tonight's episode was from start to finish well thought out and incredibly well scripted. The script was tight, focused and it made you feel on the edge of your seat as to what the heck was going on.
What was fascinating was the abnormal structure of the episode. If it fit the traditional mold, it would have ended after the funeral. Instead, it kept going for a significant chunk of time and charted out intriguing new possibilities.
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I mean, we knew in the end what was happening: the positives were taking over the city, but it's how it came about.. and the rise of the more telegenic, beer-hall-puscht Jordan Collier that was rousing for the people as well as troubling for how dismissive it was for the thousands of dead.
It's not just that the positives were taking over the city, they put the rest of the nation on defensive. After season three, people needed to inject a substance into their body to become promicin positive. After season four, people now need to ingest a substance to prevent their body from becoming promicin positive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
I just realized something about last night's episode. When Collier spoke on the capital steps and called those who died "Heralds" of a new great future.. what would that new great future be? Are they Heralds of more with abilities, or Heralds of the death of those genetically not-predestined to get abilities?
I thought the even more chilling scene was the parallel on the other side of the television from the news report. Maia and Diana are sitting watching as Jordan takes over Seattle. Maia expresses her confidence in him. Diana points out that he's a dictator. Conchita Campbell pulls off a truly frightening and subtle performance in this scene. As she says, "see, I told you he was a good guy" it's a firm statement, not a plea. And then she looks over at Diana like she's a particularly interesting zoo exhibit. When Diana decries Jordan as a dictator, Maia rolls her eyes with impatience. "You're wrong, Mom," she tells Diana, like she's a small child or an overeager pet. "We're in charge now," she declares. "It's better that way."
Here's a 4400 who has benefited from the charity and hospitality of a negative more than any one. Yet she's clearly been doing some thinking since her first visit to Promise City, and as the ideological movement has swept through with the promicin virus she's clearly decided she's a higher lifeform than the woman who has loved her, adopted her, and taken her in.

It was that moment that I realized the moment had flipped and the prejudice had flipped. Jordan Collier's religion is a kinder and gentler Nazi regime. And its higher people, its designated Aryan race, actually have something to show for it.
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Originally Posted by todd s
Great finale. I thought they were going to make us wait until next season to see what abilities the NTAC agents were going to get. Still stinks we have to wait another year for new episodes.
I think the epilogue raised more questions than answers. It certainly left us hanging on Tom Baldwin. This everyman protagonist is clearly at the center of things; and not just because he's the last name in Kyle's book. Both sides have been eager to use him as their pawn, to the point where the pro-4400 faction yanked him to the future to prevent a suicide. I think the fate of everything will ultimately rest in Tom Baldwin's hands.
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On a side note. Can you imagine getting an ability and its a lame one?
In Piers Anthony's lighthearted fantasy series Xanth, in which every person has a "talent", they were called "spot-on-the-wall" talents, in reference to a poke bloke whose special power was to make a colored spot appear on the wall.
The racial hierarchy of Jordan's regime raises interesting questions: will the value of a person be ranked by the usefulness of their ability? Will, for instance, a precognitive like Maia rank higher on the social totem pole than someone whose ability is to refill fountain pens with ink?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
I watch this show, but I think I'm not enamored with it because I seldom feel much for the characters since the plot swings and changes are so fast and furious. So when stuff happens, I just brush it off, waiting for the next shoe to drop and seeing how it all plays out.
It doesn't feature the most deeply sketched characterizations on television, but after four seasons with these characters I feel more than a little pull for them. They've been pretty damn consistent through all the twists and turns, and the most thinly drawn characters like the Tylers have been weeded out from the pack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bryan
Great episode. Great season.

More please.
Ditto.
post #116 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

I think Adam really nailed it on the head and echoed a lot of what I wanted to say, so I won't really repeat it all, except to say that I love that each season finale has really taken this show in a new direction (in a good way, IMO) and this one was no exception. With the city under Collier's control (it didn't look like he was going to step down) and a large number of people with new abilities, It obviously has to affect the way that NTAC and the government deal with "positives" (since so many of their own are now among that group). Short of a military attack, I'm not sure how they (NTAC/police/etc) could ever forcibly get back control of the city.

I'm just hoping we get to see a season 5 ... I know numbers had been down a bit this season, but over on Jacqui McKenzie's myspace page, she said that they don't know yet if they're coming back. Let's hope USA gets on the ball and makes an announcement sometime soon. I'd hate to see the story just dropped like that. I want to see what ability Tom's going to get!!
post #117 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

They could rename the show "The 13,400".
post #118 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
In Piers Anthony's lighthearted fantasy series Xanth, in which every person has a "talent", they were called "spot-on-the-wall" talents, in reference to a poke bloke whose special power was to make a colored spot appear on the wall.

Or like in the movie Sky High. If you have no superpower or if its lame (like becoming a human glow stick) you become a "sidekick".


Also, I wonder if the writers showing the NTAC members powers were two-fold. The main reason being to leave you with questions for next season. And a second reason. As a gift to the fans if for some reason they DON'T get renewed for another season. They would have answered a question fans would be dying to know.
post #119 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Any one here whether USA decided to renew for a fifth season? So far the only one of their summer series to get renewed for next season is Psych.

I know they were on the fence about this season, with tough budget cutbacks — they could only afford Conchita Campbell and Billy Campbell for 10 episodes each, and had to drop Peter Coyote altogether.
post #120 of 147

Re: The 4400 Season 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
Any one here whether USA decided to renew for a fifth season? So far the only one of their summer series to get renewed for next season is Psych.

They've also renewed "Burn Notice" for 13 episodes next summer. There's nothing on "The 4400" yet.
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