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Best of Route 66 - Page 12

post #331 of 643
2/9/08 at 9:25pm

Re: Best of Route 66

I e-mailed Infinity to tell them how let down and hacked off I am by the faux-letterboxing of R66:S1v2, but I'm not holding my breath for a response, much less a remedy. Like some of the early posters on this issue, my sense is that the company is both clueless and fixated on the bottom line. It's a shame, especially considering how lovingly shows like The Fugitive and Hawaii Five-0 have been treated on DVD. Hell, I would've been happier with the crummy, VHS-quality transfers and hissy sound quality of volume 1 on this set if it'd been full-frame.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Route 66: Season 3 Volume 1
$9.98 at
See it »
Route 66: Season 1, Vol. 2
$14.95 at
See it »
Route 66: Classic Episodes
$5.95 at
See it »
post #332 of 643
2/11/08 at 4:41am
Thread Starter 

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Von Pein
[/b]
This is totally untrue in many, many scenes throughout this series (or any series).

And chopped heads are incredibly annoying. (IMHO.)

Not only chopped heads, but there are instances where necks and even chins are missing at the bottom of the screen. I think that closeup/dialog scenes suffer the most from the cropping.

I came across an online review that, strangely, doesn't even mention the cropping; perhaps the screener copy was full frame?

Blogger News Network / DVD Review: Route 66: Season 1, Volume 2

David, I know that you're a major fan of "The Fugitive," and so one can fantasize as to what "Route 66" would have looked like had Paramount had ownership of it.
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post #333 of 643
2/11/08 at 11:49am

Re: Best of Route 66

Just received this email from IEG ..

Quote:
Yes we plan to release everything in the original aspect ratio. The reason it was cropped is because we took it to HD quality originally (for HD cable television, not DVD). Making it HD quality forced us to go into widescreen aspect ratio.

We are releasing a press release soon which will hopefully clear everything up.
-David
Then why did they put the "cable teevee" version on DVD?
Looks like they want to sell it to us again at a later date..
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post #334 of 643
2/11/08 at 12:13pm

Re: Best of Route 66

Why does making it HD quality involve making it cropped? I would imagine wider screen films will still maintain their aspect ratio on HD cable channels with black bars on top and bottom. This makes no sense. We must make contact with whatever TV station intends to air these this way and put a stop to this evil before it is too late.
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post #335 of 643
2/11/08 at 12:18pm

Re: Best of Route 66

Well, my set came in with the familiar broken hinges on the plastic dvd tray, making 4-out-of-5 of my most recent dvd purchases having arrived in the mail either broken or banged-up. But, that's a fairly moot point, regarding this latest "Route 66" set.

I was rather hoping the cropping wasn't quite as bad as it sounded. Sometimes these things get blown up out of proportion, after all. Maybe it was just a little smidgen off the top and the bottom. Nope. It looks horrid. I watched about ten seconds of an episode, and turned it off. I'm sending the set back. Pretty exasperating. As I might have mentioned on an earlier post, this is my all-time favorite tv-series, so it really kills me to see what a farce the dvd's have become.
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post #336 of 643
2/11/08 at 12:20pm

Re: Best of Route 66

[quote=Tory]Why does making it HD quality involve making it cropped? I would imagine wider screen films will still maintain their aspect ratio on HD cable channels with black bars on top and bottom. This makes no sense.[quote]

That response from Infinity was uninformed nonsense or deliberate obfuscation! It's not necessary to convert the image to 16:9 to make if HD. Otherwise, if an old film like Casablanca was released on Blu-Ray, it would have to be cropped, too. But it isn't. HD does not limit the image.
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post #337 of 643
2/11/08 at 12:22pm

Re: Best of Route 66

I'm afraid that your average TV consumer would not think that it was in HD with the bars on the side. Obviously the material can be in HD and keep the original aspect ratio - Just look at two of the HD-DVD releases of Casablanca, and Robin Hood. They received HD treatment and they maintained their proper 4:3 aspect ratio. I really don't think that Roxbury knows what they are talking about.
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post #338 of 643
2/11/08 at 12:27pm

Re: Best of Route 66

This is what I am afraid of, it starts off here in unfortunately little known Route 66 on TV and DVD next it spreads to films like Casablanca on TV, well Warner seems to know now that this is a mistake after Kung-Fu Season 1 but I could see things going down hill, like It's a Wonderful Life's NBC Christmas airings, adding in colorization as well.
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post #339 of 643
2/11/08 at 12:36pm

Re: Best of Route 66


Couldn't they take a little more off the bottom and less off the top?
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post #340 of 643
2/11/08 at 1:10pm

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Greene
It looks horrid. I watched about ten seconds of an episode, and turned it off. I'm sending the set back. Pretty exasperating.

I'm going to do the same thing after attempting to take a second look at the set today. And like Bert, I literally couldn't watch it. I mean I literally was becoming sick trying to watch this abomination and I couldn't do it - so it's going back. What a shame.

Gary "it's not just a little bit of cropping either - they lopped off way too much!" O.
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post #341 of 643
2/11/08 at 1:18pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Best of Route 66

Perhaps there should have been a disclaimer on this set . . . .

This television show has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit your widescreen TV.
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post #342 of 643
2/11/08 at 1:26pm

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hug
Perhaps there should have been a disclaimer on this set . . . .

This television show has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit your widescreen TV.

Perhaps they should NOT have issued a totally DISHONEST press release four days before release?
Quote:
Route 66: Season One, Volume Two
From: Roxbury Entertainment
Roxbury Entertainment in Association With Infinity Entertainment Group Proudly Presents Route 66: Season One, Volume Two

Trouble Along the Highway

Available for the First Time on DVD Feb. 5th Fully Restored & Digitally Transferred From the Original Masters

LOS ANGELES Feb. 1, 2008

For Immediate Release

Fully restored and digitally trans- ferred from the original masters, a special collector's set Route 66: Season One, Volume Two, will be available on DVD for the first time Feb. 5 (Infinity Entertainment Group), completing the exciting and pivotal debut season (1960-61) of one of television's most beloved classics.

...

Enjoy this treasured television classic (episodes 16-30) in a special four-disc, collector's set. Presented in full frame, with an aspect ratio of 4:3, special features include cast biographies.

Roxbury Entertainment, headquartered in Santa Monica, Calif. (steps from the official "end" of Route 66), is a film and television production and distribution company owned and operated by producer Kirk Hallam (Finding Rin Tin Tin, The Death of Michael Smith, Gone in 60 Seconds: The Ride), currently in development on the major motion picture Route 66, scheduled for completion in 2008.

Infinity Entertainment Group, headquartered in Los Angeles, Calif., is a multi-service home entertainment retail distributor, specializing in independent films, television programming, special-interest, documentaries, anime and music. Clients include MOJO on INHD, Falcon Picture Group, Bandai Entertainment, Retromedia Entertainment and Stone Cutter Productions. The company was launched in 2006 and is a division of Infinity Resources, Inc., a privately-held, multi-channel marketing and service enterprise with general offices based in suburban Chicago, Ill.

Route 66: Season One, Volume Two
Collector's Set (4 Discs)
Infinity Entertainment Group
Genre: Classic TV/B&W
Not Rated
Format: DVD Only
Running Time: Approx. 14 Hours (15 Episodes/54 Minutes Each, Plus Special Features)
Suggested Retail Price: $29.98
Order Date: January 8, 2008
Street Date: February 5, 2008
Catalog #: IEG2031
UPC Code: #617742203196
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post #343 of 643
2/11/08 at 10:07pm

Re: Best of Route 66

I left a message for Kirk Halam's assistant a few days ago and I've not gotten a call back yet. Hmmmmm, I wonder why?

I was really hoping I wouldn't have to transfer over a hundred hours from Super Beta but I guess they've left me no choice. And we thought that after the first set they put out that they had to improve.
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post #344 of 643
2/11/08 at 10:23pm

Re: Best of Route 66

I'm beginning to wonder if the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing--in other words, perhaps those in charge of the press release were not aware of the sins commited by those transferring the show to DVD.
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post #345 of 643
2/13/08 at 2:04pm

Re: Best of Route 66

It's over - the damage was intentional - because hi-def REQUIRES 16/9.
Quote:
Infinity Entertainment Group has been very excited to bring the iconic television program Route 66 to DVD for the first time. We have taken great care in restoring and packaging this beloved classic for collectors. However, it recently came to our attention that there is some confusion in the marketplace about some of the technical aspects of this restoration process.

A key decision in the digital restoration of the series was whether to retain the original full screen 4 x 3 aspect ratio (old tube televisions) or to update to a widescreen format with a 16 x 9 aspect ratio (new digital TVs). Since the restoration process utilized the original 35mm film assets, the goal was to do a high definition transfer, updating the aspect ratio for broadcast on new HD TVs. High Definition transfer which requires an update to the 16x9 aspect ratio for new HD TV Broadcast and future Digital Media delivery, i.e. Blu Ray DVD and HD Internet.

In this new widescreen format, without vertical cropping the program would appear distorted. During the film transfer, the post production house used a process called tilt and scan which allows a Telecine technician to examine each scene individually and center the frame on the action. Unfortunately, in extreme close-ups, the cropping may occasionally intrude on the original framing, sometimes cutting off a portion of the top of the head.

While we tried to remain as true as possible to the original programming, our overall goal is to not only make the program available once again on television, but to optimize it for the next generation of broadcast and television standards.

Infinity Entertainment Group is committed to bringing quality programming and relies on the support of our valued customers to do so. For any comments or questions, please contact David Thornblad at dthornblad@infinity-entertainmentgroup.com.
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post #346 of 643
2/13/08 at 2:19pm

Re: Best of Route 66

Yeah, I just got that email too from Thornblad explaining the decision to format for 16:9. But is this true that they basically have to tilt and scan vertically to avoid any distortion? Is the HD Casablanca version distorted? Or do they just allow there to be side bars on the HD version?

This could be a trend that needs to be nipped in the bud before it's applied to all classic old TV shows retooled for HD. Sure it's great to seek new markets and viewers, but the most critical market is always going to be the original fans of these classic shows. It's better to please them than to risk displeasing new viewers with side bars. Hell, if the show's good enough, would they really mind? Everyone's used to seeing bars somewhere.

Just ranting. What else can we do? I don't see an offer to exchange or correct this and offer replacements in the future.
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post #347 of 643
2/13/08 at 2:22pm

Re: Best of Route 66

This is one reason I DETEST widescreen formatting. I want the picture to fill my entire screen, not just a portion of it. Not everyone has hi-def widescreen TVs. Why couldn't they just transfer the image the way it was originally intended to be broadcast?
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post #348 of 643
2/13/08 at 2:48pm

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elena S
This is one reason I DETEST widescreen formatting. I want the picture to fill my entire screen, not just a portion of it. Not everyone has hi-def widescreen TVs. Why couldn't they just transfer the image the way it was originally intended to be broadcast?

But such is the future of TV.
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post #349 of 643
2/13/08 at 2:59pm

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey3rd
But such is the future of TV.

But such is a load of bull, black bars are needed and idiots can zoom all they want to see it their way.
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post #350 of 643
2/13/08 at 4:07pm

Re: Best of Route 66

There's no reasonable justification for this other than ignorance. All of the excuses are just that. I feel badly for Infinity as they are the ones who are left to try to explain away this nonsense.
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post #351 of 643
2/13/08 at 8:29pm

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hug
I guess it goes without saying that next Tuesday's 6-episode single disc release will likely also have the matte effect applied to the episodes.

Nope (see attached . . . . )
525x525px-LL-vbattach788.jpg
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post #352 of 643
2/14/08 at 4:16am
Thread Starter 

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywoodaholic
This could be a trend that needs to be nipped in the bud before it's applied to all classic old TV shows retooled for HD. Sure it's great to seek new markets and viewers, but the most critical market is always going to be the original fans of these classic shows. It's better to please them than to risk displeasing new viewers with side bars. Hell, if the show's good enough, would they really mind? Everyone's used to seeing bars somewhere.

Wayne, I couldn't agree with you more. If Roxbury wants to modify the original format of "Route 66" for widescreen television broadcasts, fine, it's their property and they can do with it as they see fit (and, for the record, I don't agree with their decision to do so). But the decision to modify "Route 66" for SD DVD just doesn't make sense to me, especially when volume 1 was released in the correct full screen format. It seems to me that Roxbury/Infinity should have released the series full screen for standard definition DVDs and then, when the HD/Blu Ray war is over, offer the series in the modified format. The whole of the message of the press release seems to be looking at the future and ignoring the present.
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post #353 of 643
2/14/08 at 5:28am
Thread Starter 

Re: Best of Route 66

Here's a must read/view on the subject from Stephen Bowie who has previously posted his comments in this thread . . . .

86 This 66: The TV Classic Route 66 Hits a Dead End on the Hi-Def Highway « The Classic TV History Blog
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post #354 of 643
2/14/08 at 6:23am

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
But the decision to modify "Route 66" for SD DVD just doesn't make sense to me, especially when volume 1 was released in the correct full screen format. It seems to me that Roxbury/Infinity should have released the series full screen for standard definition DVDs and then, when the HD/Blu Ray war is over, offer the series in the modified format. The whole of the message of the press release seems to be looking at the future and ignoring the present.

And I couldn't agree more with THAT assessment, Bob. I wrote a letter to Mr. Thornblad after receiving a reply from IEG yesterday.

By the way, there's a line in the attached document I received with a textbook non-sequitur: "Since the restoration process utilized the original 35mm film assets, the goal was to do a high definition transfer, updating the aspect ratio for broadcast on new HD TVs". Logical fallacy if ever there was one.

The fact that no other studio is currently altering the AR of 4:3 formatted tv shows to 16:9 (at least that I'm aware of), demonstrates what a misguided, rogue concept this is. WB realized their mistake following the release of "Kung Fu" S1 and never repeated it since.
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post #355 of 643
2/14/08 at 7:08am

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Here's a must read/view on the subject from Stephen Bowie who has previously posted his comments in this thread . . . .

Indispensible commentary on this blatant snafu, to say the least--thanks for that link, Bob.

Best part is summed up in one line by Mr. Bowie: "It seems to me that Inifinity is trying to have it both ways: 'Oops, we messed up' and 'Forced widescreen is good for you - learn to like it'".
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post #356 of 643
2/14/08 at 8:14am

Re: Best of Route 66

They would sell more units and win back favor if they remove this now, destroy the DVDs, show video footage of their destruction and instead of approaching Season 2 next, release an OAR fully restored Complete Route 66 Season 1 instead or better yet, the Complete series OAR and restored.
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post #357 of 643
2/14/08 at 9:29am

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
...release an OAR fully restored Complete Route 66 Season 1 instead or better yet, the Complete series OAR and restored.

While we're at it, no colorization, no DVD-18s...have I left out anything?
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post #358 of 643
2/14/08 at 9:29am

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tory
They would sell more units and win back favor if they remove this now, destroy the DVDs, show video footage of their destruction and instead of approaching Season 2 next, release an OAR fully restored Complete Route 66 Season 1 instead or better yet, the Complete series OAR and restored.

That would be nice but it ain't gonna happen. Although I could see them abandoning this stupid idea for the next set. The more I think about it, the more I think it's just complete cluelessness on the part of Roxbury and them having absolutely no quality control. I can just picture them handing the elements to a transfer facility - going, here, take these - and then not checking what is being done. They are not a professional outfit, nor are they amateurs with a great love for the material. The only company they remind me of is Questar, the people who butchered the Joey Bishop Show and season 5 Make Room for Daddy sets. This is what happens when you trust valuable properties to hacks.

Wanna get a pool going as to what they do to f*** up the next set? Colorization? Bad picture? Audio commentary replacing the soundtrack? Inverted image? Syndication masters?
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post #359 of 643
2/14/08 at 9:43am
Thread Starter 

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn
Audio commentary replacing the soundtrack?

According to this interview with Kirk Hallam, season 2, volume 1 is tentatively projected for a May release with George Maharis commentary on selected episodes.

A chat with Kirk Hallam « Route 66 News

I can hear Mr. Maharis now . . . . . "Hey, what happened to the top of my head?"
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post #360 of 643
2/14/08 at 10:13am

Re: Best of Route 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tory
They would sell more units and win back favor if they remove this now, destroy the DVDs, show video footage of their destruction and instead of approaching Season 2 next, release an OAR fully restored Complete Route 66 Season 1 instead or better yet, the Complete series OAR and restored.
LOL...I can read the press release now: "Route 66, compete with extra bonus footage of us destroying our mistake..."
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Route 66: Season 3 Volume 1
$9.98 at
See it »
Route 66: Season 1, Vol. 2
$14.95 at
See it »
Route 66: Classic Episodes
$5.95 at
See it »