Best of Route 66 - Page 11

Re: Best of Route 66

I hadn't ordered volume two yet...I was going to wait for the expected Deep Discount June sale to save a few bucks. Even so, I emailed Infinity expressing my disappointment. A shame when one of the really classy dramatic programs of the early 60s is treated this way.

Re: Best of Route 66

I watched the first two episodes last night, and I really hesitate to say this, but they looked pretty darned good on my widescreen TV. The video quality of the first set was so bad; it was almost unwatchable for me. While the 4:3 presentation would have been much preferable, I would still have to go with this set over volume one.

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I'm not getting it and I was planning to later on. I sent a letter through e-mail. I have an HDTV now, I like the black bars on the side for 4:3 but if I didn't there is a zoom function that would do the same as this without angering those who want to preserve OAR. While I do not like this function, I have looked at it and if the DVD is of a good quality then this zoomed in picture, what is seen looks ok even though the image is totally mutilated. If there is some quality loss, if you are willing to lose the top and bottom of the picture, your regards to beauty of presentation are likely inherently lesser and less likely to be bothered by as such.

A big stink needs to be raised about this at all of the major DVD, Film and TV websites by those who are running them in commentaries, editorials and the like. As more people get these new TVs, more classic television and film face butchering on both DVD and TV. It is small now but it is trickling in, more could happen in the future, it needs to be silenced now.

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No excuses here, and I've sent my Infinity email, but how many people watch 4:3 TV DVDs stretched? That's also a distortion or compromise of the original image. But I confess, I do it. If anyone watches TNT HD channel, they do the same thing this release did with Law & Order and other shows - they cut off part of the picture to accommodate the widescreen HD presentation. And then there's the big Kubrick controversy on his films, whether they were meant to be masked for widescreen or not. I guess it all boils down to what's acceptable to the viewer, purist or just fan.

I hope Infinity gets the message and goes back to full 4:3 on the next release, but I won't send this set back. It's better than my (mumble mumble) version. And Stirling Silliphant's scripts are intact. If Buz's toupee happens to get cut off the frame in a few shots, I will grumble and bear it.

Re: Best of Route 66

does seem that they did this 16:9 crop in order for these transfers to be more appealing to HD channels. Which would also explain why these transfers are better looking.

If you look at Paramount's syndication Bible, you'll notice that they offer several shows in HD 16:9 - including Hogan's Heroes.

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This is the first post I've made here since 2004. Because some comments (not my own) were deleted from the very first HTF thread in which I posted, I reluctantly opted not to continue participating in a forum where I felt censorship and overmoderation were being practiced.

I still feel that way, but I'm making an exception because of the importance of the issue here.

To Hollywoodaholic, Doug^CH, and others who have decided to accept this mutilation of one of the most significant American TV series, I implore you to reconsider, vote with your wallets, and send this abomination back to the remaindered warehouse where it belongs.

This isn't simply the proffering of an inferior image, as in the first set (although that was dismaying and unnecessary too). This is the inarguable deletion of picture information. You can state glibly that Stirling Silliphant's words remain intact, but it's painfully obvious that 25% of David Lowell Rich's and Arthur Hiller's and Paul Wendkos's images -- those images of '60s mid-American byways that, even more than Silliphant's inimitable beat-style dialogue, make "Route 66" unique -- are missing.

I realize that it's incredibly frustrating for those of you who don't, like Hank Dearborn (and, yes, myself) have access to relatively adequate 20 year-old tapes of "Route 66" that remain, absurdly, superior to anything Roxbury has managed to put forth yet. It's tempting to say, well, a screwed-up "Route 66" is better than nothing and I'll buy it anyhow.

Don't do it. Do not let them abuse a masterpiece and profit from it. Hold out, hurt their profit margin where it counts, and force Roxbury to not only get it right next time, but fix it with reissues of their first two volumes. And if they don't do that, then live without for the time being, because "Route 66" is too good to stay MIA for long: it'll turn up on cable again or via digital download or some other new outlet (remember that new Sony-HP burn-on-demand deal). Or via one of those pathways that, er, you don't talk about on the HTF.

If you buy this product, you are part of the problem.

I'm tempted to lighten the mood with some jokes here: since Roxbury is only giving us 75% of the image, how about a price drop to $22.50? Or perhaps a contest to see how they'll botch Season 2 -- I'm thinking some George Maharis commentaries, but they forget to throw in the original audio too? But, nah, I love "Route 66" too much, and it's just not funny.

Stephen Bowie
www dot classictvhistory dot com

Re: Best of Route 66

And a Chicago station did just announce they're going to start broadcasting the series again. Coincidence? Maybe not.


Chicago TV station to show “Route 66″ episodes « Route 66 News

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My set came in the mail today, so I decided to pop a disc in and see what this thing really looked like. And while the video quality is very solid, I have to say I HATE the change in aspect ratio. It just doesn't feel right, and I resent someone or some company pulling this stunt. Like they are trying to convince me I'm watching a movie instead of a tv show.

Gary "I'm very grateful for the better transfers, but I really dislike the matted picture - too much is cut off for my tastes" O.

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The press release I received with the DVDs does say that the set is 4:3 - so this was an unexpected change.

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I just don't get Roxbury Entertainment - They seem to be alienating the core
buyers first with shoddy prints and now nice prints artifically widescreen.

They don't seem to get it,do they?

Well,let's hope their theatrical ROUTE 66 film flops (I mean come on, ROUTE 66 will NOT update well! Remember the short lived series from over a decade ago?) and someone else gets the rights to put these shows out RIGHT!

Sorry, I'll be spending my money on DVDs done right - like THE FUGITIVE and THE INVADERS!

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You're right Stephen, it is incredibly frustrating. But not having the tapes/homemade dvds are only half the frustration. The other part that I've personally experienced is having to hear other folks arrogantly brag about having them yet being unwilling to help others get them. I'm not saying you are doing this, but I've seen it too many times in the last 10 years online. But again, I can only speak for myself and I mean no offense to you personally.


I understand the sentiment and logic behind this thought, but I still think you've worded it a bit strong to say all of us here are a part of the problem. And here's why I say you are too strong. You're argument rests on the thought that the show is "too good to stay MIA for long." I totally disagree with you here and that's why I don't think we are contributing to the problem by buying these sets - as aggravating as the butchering is. The current television climate gives me no reason to hope for a renaissance of Classic TV stations or Classic series being aired. None what so ever. It's been how long since ROUTE 66 aired nationally? Almost 20 years? And it's been nearly 15 years since THE FUGITIVE aired nationally.

And even if these shows aired again, guess what. We'd have to put up with butchered prints via commercials, annoying animated bugs that often "speak" during dialog, and cut off ending theme songs. I'm also not at all convinced that digital downloads are the future. Not at all convinced. So contrary to your contentions, this may be the only source or chance we ever have to see this series again. And that's where your argument breaks down, IMHO.

Gary "I wish it was as easy as you say - but I don't think boycotts work to our advantage all that often" O.

P.S. I do very much agree with your thoughts on how bad this mutilation is. Especially with a series that is as visually pleasing and important as ROUTE 66.

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Gary OS, the parts of my previous post that you correctly found sort of lame were worded carefully to respect the HTF’s policy of avoiding discussion of gray-market sources. Take that as you will. (But for the record, before people contact me, I don’t actually have a set of the Nick-at-Nite off-airs in my possession. If I did, I probably WOULD have made an “exchange program” offer on my blog to anyone who could prove they’d cancelled or returned an order of ROUTE 66 S1V2. At least until Roxbury issued a recall statement and a plan to retransfer. Because surely that’s coming any second now. Right? Right?)

And apart from the question of alternative sources, I still make the argument against seeing ROUTE 66 in this butchered form (or, in general, any movie or TV show that’s been radically altered against its creators’ intentions). Both for the boycott factor, and because it is not aesthetically pleasing to do so. I don’t have any special access to WKRP with the original music, or KUNG FU Season 1 in the correct aspect ratio, or FATHER KNOWS BEST without cuts. I’d enjoy watching those shows, but I’d rather skip them than see the botched versions that came out on DVD. Whatever pleasure I’d get would be canceled out by the annoyance I felt from knowing my first and probably only impression of the material would be coming from an inferior presentation, and didn’t have to.

[An analogy from TV: Anybody ever see an episode of the ’80s TWILIGHT ZONE called “The Mind of Simon Foster,” written by J. Michael Straczynski? (I was thinking it was a Harlan Ellison script, but I just looked it up.) It’s set in an impoverished future where a bowl of soup is a rare treat. Guy heats up his last can of soup and is all set to down the first spoonful when a cockroach falls off a kitchen cabinet into the bowl. He has to decide: throw away the soup, or fish out the roach and eat the soup knowing it’s got bug slime in it. It’s lose-lose: either way he’s not gonna enjoy that soup.]

If you’re willing to accept such compromises, that’s up to you. But my feeling is that if somebody offers you a meal of crap, it’s a bad idea to pick up a fork and dig in. Because of the taste, and the principle.

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Gary, I feel your pain and I see your dilemma. And as someone who has been collecting for almost 30 years now, I am in a bit of a different position when it comes to access to many of these shows. For instance, as I write this, I am midway through my transferring of second season of WKRP from when I recorded them from CBS. So when it comes to shows that have aired in the videotaping era, I'm not at the mercy of the incompetent DVD companies. But you are. As was written above, there are options to giving your money to people as undeserving as Roxbury. There's the obvious, which cannot be discussed here. There's also Netflix or Blockbuster if you want to stay completely on the up and up. In my view, any option is preferable to supporting these types of abominable releases. You say boycotts don't work. Well, what do you suggest we do? I care about this stuff, probably far more than I should but certainly far more than Roxbury does. If you have any thoughts as to how we can hit back, other than by boycotting, please tell me.

Re: Best of Route 66

Just so my position is understood: I hate the matted format for Volume 2. I hate it with a passion, for the same reason you guys do. It is a crying shame to cut off so much Americana (which is a huge part of ROUTE 66) just to give the show some type of movie feel. And if I thought for one moment that a boycott would help us get the series in the correct format, I'd be right there with you guys. Either that, or if I had access to solid prints that I could transfer to dvd myself. But when you have absolutely no second outlet, and no hope for future showings or releases (and I have no hope for either) then it's very hard not to buy the set. It may seem like "crap" to others, but if its all you think you will ever have in your lifetime, you feel like that's better than absolutely nothing.

And for the record, my anecdotal story was not intended to insinuate that you guys had material I expected you to share with me. Not in the least. I was referring to a situation from some years ago, on another forum entirely, involving another show. I just didn't like the braggart there that was so unwilling to help others. And that's all I'll say because it's not my intent to talk about things that HTF wants us to stay away from. I've never violated that policy and I never will.

I am really, really disappointed with Roxbury (or possibly Infinity) for this substandard release. And to be honest, I am very close to sending my set back because I can barely watch it that way. I may yet send it back. So it's not like I'm being an ostrich here, or being a simpleton that always says "Thank you" when I'm smacked in the face. It's just that I pre-ordered my set before this issue was made known and I wanted to give it a whirl and see how bad it was before automatically dismissing or boycotting the set. I'm going to think long and hard about the issue and then I'll let you guys know what I do. But it's not a slam dunk that I will keep this volume. Not at all.

Gary "and yea, Netflix is a good alternative for this type of situation" O.

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Gary, two years ago I would have fully agreed with you. TVLand was going in the dumps (and still has thanks to reality shows and lame movies). But the climate has changed.

The Fugitive is being aired nationally on the Retro TV Network. There is a new future for older TV shows thanks to the digital television revolution. Local TV stations across America are turning to the Retro TV Network for programming for their digital subchannels. It's working in my market. And then there's AmericanLife which runs older shows - mostly Fox. They've got Thursday night dedicated to Irwin Allen. (quick note: AmericanLife is owned by the Unification Church.)

somebody in control of Route 66 has decided that the best future of the show reaching a mass audience is by making the HD transfers 16:9 anamorphic instead of making 4:3 transfers. Does somebody here knows how cheap it is to strike high quality HD masters.

While some may complain about the cropping, I don't see it as that destructive. I've watched 2 episodes. Neither time did I feel ripped off that action was sliced away. This was not a series that was tightly framed for the Academy ratio. There's plenty of space above the characters heads that could be eliminated. You always have to have that buffer space anyway in TV since different sets cut the image. One episode had a mountain in the background. the tip of the mountain was in the 16:9 frame.

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Corey, my problem is that I have Direct TV and I haven't experienced either of those two channels. My thought is that if it isn't on the top satellite provider in the country it isn't "national". And neither of those stations have ever been available on the Time Warner cable line-up that's been available in my major metropolitan area for a long, long time. So again, in my experience these networks are not national, and therefore the vintage shows they air are not national, because I have no access to them even using a national service like Direct TV.

I'd ask if the shows are uncut and the stations are without bugs. Also, do they cut off the ending theme songs in order to advertise the next show coming up? Because if any of those things are happening then it's not the same as getting dvds.

Gary "thanks for the reply, Corey" O.

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I do not get Retro either but I am hopeful to get it before the end of the year according to a recent press release. On the nearest one to me, I researched the ones in my state, classics such as are shown in prime time, but after that they air Family Guy and South Park reruns, presumable the edited censored syndicated versions.

I have been told that if you get one of those free station Satellites you can get a number of regional Retro stations from around the country dependent upon where it is pointing.

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To my way of thinking a "national" airing requires that at least 90% of the cable/satellite subscribers have access to the channel. And that's not the case here, and I'm not sure it ever will be. For instance, now AmericanLife has gone from airing some great WB shows (50's & 60's) to the more modern Fox series (later 60's & 70's). So even if I now got access to that channel, it's no longer running what I'd consider the real vintage shows any more.

And again, even if I had access to these stations - I'd still have to put up with station bugs, cut episodes, and probably some voice overs while the ending credits are running.

Gary "I just don't think anyone can compare what we'd get over the airwaves with clean, non-interrupted episodes on dvd" O.

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I am hoping against hope that I will get the Retro TV Network because it's the only chance I'll ever have to see those great shows again. But living in a little podunk town it's unlikely, unless Dish network miraculously strikes a deal with them.

Re: Best of Route 66

Just a heads up for anyone who lives in the Chicago area-you can look forward to a new channel from the WWME people that will have lots of old TV including "a Sunday "Noir at Night" block of "Route 66," "Naked City," "77 Sunset Strip" and "Boris Karloff's Thriller." It'll be Channel 48, 247 on Comcast Digital starting March 1st. It also says it will be carried by WOW and RCN cable systems.

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I agree with you 100 % for my purposes but I also feel that it is important that these older shows get some exposure on TV in their original aspect ratios and uncut so potential new audiences can stumble upon them as they are not as likely to go looking for them. I think Retro and American Life are more noble in their efforts than TVLand, at least right now. Still, I really could only trust one currently running channel with classics and that is TCM and they only handle movies, ad free though you do see a bug. I wish the good people at TCM would start a station devoted to classic television. I could also go for a PBS station devoted to them or a dedicated block of 50's programming, supported by pledgers, a TV version of the soon to return Matinee at the Bijou.


If these TV shows get more exposure on TV and find new fans, the DVDs would be more forthcoming.

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Excellent points that I agree with wholeheartedly. My point was only that I wouldn't want a station airing to be my only source for these shows because of all the little annoyances that would go with it. But you are correct about us needing to see some stations airing these shows. It would help build interest.

I'm also with you on TCM. Best station there is, and it would be fantastic to see them do a TV series station.

Gary "I think we are on the same page" O.

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American Life is on Time Warner cable down here. Maybe Direct TV doesn't want to deal directly with the Moonies? But they do have their deal with Fox for rerun programming.

Retro TV Network will never be on Direct TV since it is not a proper network. It basically allows local stations to create their own TVLand by selecting shows from Paramount and Universal's vault. Your local station can select shows that appeal to your area. Far as the shows go, it's hard to imagine that any channel will go without flashing a bug in the corner during a show. The episodes seem to have the complete end credits. A few seem sped up, but it seems to be the situation as to what masters are in the vault - Cannon is sped up. But that's probably a good thing since it takes a while for Conrad to make it across the screen. Here's a list of stations using RTN for the subchannels:

List of Retro Television Network affiliates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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I saw some recordings of The FBI taken from when the American Life channel used to run them, and I couldn't believe how sped up some scenes were, to the point where actor's voices sounded different and the dialog was impossible to follow if you didn't keep up with it.

With all the things that stations do to their programs, I've given up following classic TV shows on any type of television channel. For me, it's either DVD or digital downloads.

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Gotcha. Funny, because I knew that's how Retro worked yet I still thought they might somehow work a deal to either air one of the prominent affiliates as a standard "Retro Network" station for Direct TV or find a way to get a feed in through other means. In either event, the fact that is it's not really a "national" network that's accessible to most people.

Are the bugs static or do they morph into ads like TVLand's do? And do the ending credits ever get interrupted with other ads or are they allowed to play out in their entirety?

Gary "I still think a station similar to TCM would be the best thing ever" O.

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It's pretty much a turn key operation on the Retro TV Network. The bug is static - RTN. The really don't do anything funky during the end credits. They just play out and the next show starts. The only show that sometimes has its end music clipped is the midnight showing of the Untouchables since a 1 a.m. the infommerical block begins. They don't shrink the credits to plug their other shows or start running the next episode.

We figured out that this whole channel is pretty much run off hard drives at this moment so they don't do too much fancy stuff with the programming. They run the shows and insert the ads - mostly national stuff.

It's far from being the TCM of TV shows, but it's pretty addictive. my day does revolve around the noon showing of Love American Style. Plus since at the moment it is pretty low profile, we're attempting to get the channel to pick up Mannix when they decide to shuffle the programming.

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My thoughts exactly, Gary.

I've watched one episode thus far (the show on Disc 1 with a very lovely 15-year-old Patty "Bad Seed" McCormack, who is supposed to be playing an 18-year-old per the show's script), and while watching it, I couldn't get away from the constant feeling of being "SQUEEZED" into an unwanted/unneeded 16:9 frame, all the while knowing the show should be in 4:3.

Annoying indeed -- esp. the close and medium shots where you KNOW that a person's WHOLE CRANIUM is supposed to be visible, but instead we get to see only a portion of the person's head from the middle of their forehead on down.

Which brings up another question I have regarding this kind of ridiculous OAR butchery -- If a company like Roxbury INSISTS upon tampering with the ratio of 1.33:1 material, WHY is it not possible to arrange the cropping so that MORE is missing from the BOTTOM of the screen, and LESS from the top (where human heads, naturally, reside)?

Is it not possible to crop in such a manner (if a company deems it absolutely necessary to mangle the perfectly-fine 4x3 material, that is)?

Plus: Since it's quite obvious that Roxbury ruined the OAR as part of a campaign to market these "Route 66" DVDs to people who won't buy anything unless it can fill up their 16:9 TV, I'm wondering why the packaging doesn't advertise "Now In 16:9 Widescreen Format!", or something similar to that?

There's not a word about the ratio on the box....which would, naturally, tend to make a reasonable DVD purchaser think that this 1960 show is probably going to be presented in the 1960 format of 4x3.

And I was equally shocked to find that Roxbury actually went to the added (I assume) expense of giving these 15 episodes an anamorphic transfer.

It wouldn't have been QUITE so bad if they had decided to mangle the shows to, say, 1.66:1. But instead they went whole-hog and actually anamorphicized the episodes, which seems incredible to me. (And incredibly stupid as well--of course).

I have a 4x3 TV (with compression mode for 16x9), so I can actually watch the shows in Full Frame if I want to. But in doing so, it makes the picture look distorted, shortening all objects and making Tod & Buz look like they've been starving for weeks. So that option ain't a good one either.

It'd be nice if enough people were to complain to the DVD company and (possibly) get a re-pressing of these fine "Route 66" shows in the proper (and deserved) 1.33:1 aspect ratio.

Well, one can always hope, right?

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This is totally untrue in many, many scenes throughout this series (or any series).

And chopped heads are incredibly annoying. (IMHO.)

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a repressing with a FREE exchange program is the least I'd accept! If I wasted my money on this travesty!

I would not be happy if I bought this and had to buy it a again due to their butchery...F'n bastids!

I will not buy this!