A question on two systems...

Re: A question on two systems...

If you can stretch your budget to $600...

I would suggest buying separate components. Start out with a stereo system and add the center and surrounds as your budget allows.

Receiver: Pioneer VSX-516-K

Speakers: AV123 x-ls

Subwoofer: AV123 x-sub

...or you can get a 6.1 speaker package from HSU Research for $449: HSU Performance 1 System

Re: A question on two systems...

how about this panny. and these speakers. all together about $450. you have the advantage of having a real 7.1 avr that you can use with most speakers you might ever want. for $30 more you have the ability to upgrade the speakers when you can. this receiver has real binding posts for the speaker connections instead of spring clips. HTIB receivers are generally engineered to work together well but you can't assume the receiver will play nicely with other speakers.

if you must go HTIB, don't get that samsung. the sub's high end doesn't even meet the sat's low end, very poor design. also, please don't be another person who thinks watts = quality or volume, there's so much more to it than that. it's like trying to decide what sandwich tastes better based on calories with out taking a bite of either.

whatever you do, don't be this guy who bought these sherwood speakers and left the following review:

so to answer your question, i wouldn't recommend either. if i had to buy one it would be the panny, having nothing to do with watts.

Re: A question on two systems...

Why? If you do a little digging you'll find that AV123 is a respected company in the audio business. The satellite speakers in the packages might perform decently, but if you want good bass, I don't think the subwoofer provided will perform nearly as well as other subs in your price range.

Here's a tip: don't buy speakers from big-name electronics manufacturers like Samsung, Panasonic, Sony, etc. You should buy speakers and subwoofers from companies that specialize in audio like AV123, SVS, HSU Research, B&W, Ascend Acoustics, etc. They sell great products at a great value. You won't be getting as much value if you go with the big brand name manufacturers. Their speakers and subs may do OK for the money, but just OK.

Re: A question on two systems...

Do you have a Best Buy and/or a Circuit City nearby?

Is your mom also crazy about using her card over the phone? You can also purchase AV123 products over the phone. Their customer support is great and may put your mom at ease.

Re: A question on two systems...

ok, you really want to do this well, or do you want to just get the best you can within your $500 budget?

answer these questions too: how old are you? how big is your listening room? do want this mainly for movies, music, games, tv, how much of each? a small room doesn't need as big a sub or speakers as a larger room. if you're going to use this mostly for music, maybe a 2 channel stereo would be better suited to you're needs.

the fact of the matter is you're not going to get great sound quality and bass out of a system that costs $500 for a receiver, 5 speakers and a powered subwoofer. that doesn't mean it will be horrible either, or that you will or won't like it. taste in sound is like taste in anything, personal. there are many things that people like and dislike in their electronics and speakers. but there are certain basic goals most people around here have for their systems. some of those goals are clear and accurate sound across the audible frequency range at whatever listening level you like in your listening room. now that doesn't mean we've all met our goals to our satisfaction, just that that is the minimum we want to achieve with our audio gear.

so how much do you have to spend to meet that minimum standard? it depends on many things, but i'd say to have reasonably clear bass down below 30hz you're probably looking $750 min for receiver, 5 speakers and a sub. i'm not suggesting you need to up your budget now. i think it's fine to start with more inexpensive gear and upgrade over time. thomasC is right to recommend looking elsewhere as there are many better values to be had out there than what's on newegg.

so let us know what your goals are as specifically as you can and we'll give you the best suggestions we can within your budget.

Re: A question on two systems...

you know, i just looked up that panny HTIB SC-RT50. i was curious about the sub, to see what low end was rated to. it wasn't listed on the newegg prod listing, so i checked panny's site. the power ratings are something to behold:


so i guess the sub goes down to 45hz, hardly a subwoofer IMO. that sherwood system's sub goes down to 35hz, not great either, but better. as for the 1200 watts, what a joke! most of the ratings are at 4ohms (meaning less watts into a more typical 8 ohm speaker) and they are at 10% THD (total harmonic distortion). 10% thd is unlistenable IMO, i imagine a boombox from the 80's on 8 D batteries putting out as much static as music from the cassette it's playing. this is why no HTIB's!

Re: A question on two systems...

Well, I hate to break it to you and your mom Christian, but this WORLD is not 100% safe. As far as online speaker companies go, I feel safer buying from AV123 more than some of the large B&M outfits (who do you think stands a better chance of getting hacked?).

You WILL get more for your mom's $ from AV123. 100% sure of it. No I don't work for them! Get your PC components from Newegg, not your audio system!

Re: A question on two systems...

I also saw that it only pulls 230 watts from the wall. Newegg des sell a very few quality components, Swan speakers, H/K and JVC receivers, but there are still better places to get them. And the 30 day, non-refundable return policy also bothers me. Like Mike said, nothing is 100%. But I've used OneCall.com, Vanns.com and ac4l.com (accessories for less) many times without issue. And I'm sure there are many others.

Re: A question on two systems...

Something I love about NewEgg:


Yeah, these guys know what they're talking about. You've been given great advice.

Re: A question on two systems...

Ditto.

Do you have a Best Buy and/or Circuit City nearby?

Re: A question on two systems...

I'm guessing your mom might feel safer shopping there. If so...

Get the Pioneer VSX-516-K receiver from Circuit City: http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Pione...oductDetail.do

Get two pairs of Insignia NS-B2111 speakers from Best Buy: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1138085354138

But for the best bass in your price range, I think your best option is to buy from AV123. If you can convince your mom to order over the phone or the Internet from AV123, then forget about the Insignias and buy a pair of the x-ls speakers and get the x-sub.

Please take my advice: don't rush into this. Don't get whatever you want now, because you'll pay for it later when you have to upgrade everything. It can be a painful wait, but it will be worth it.

If it takes you a week or two to convince your mom that AV123 and other Internet retailers are reputable, that's just one or two weeks. You're better off in the long run.

Re: A question on two systems...

Great! Yes, get the receiver from Circuit City, but buy it from their website. They have a web-only promotion that takes $20 off the price. See if you can order it online and pick it up in the store at that price. Their free shipping will drive you nuts.

Yes, you can buy the center and rear speakers later.

Re: A question on two systems...

Get another pair of x-ls speakers for your rears and the x-cs for your center. AV123 is coming out with more speakers in the x-line, so don't go on this recommendation if it's going to be a while before you can afford them.

Re: A question on two systems...

If you don't mind exchanging some accuracy for a more punchy/live sound, go with the brand guaranteed to irritate the people at Stereophile magazine :

Cerwin-Vega VE Series

Two of their satellites w/5.25" woofers cost $70 at J&R Music (where I've bought several pieces of gear and never had any problems), and the dual 8" sub goes for $219 at the same place. It doesn't go quite as low as some of the other subs listed previously but I'm 99% sure the bass it does have will have more kick to it. All Cerwins are very efficient so they don't need expensive/large receivers to power them properly. CV has been around since the late 50s so despite all the bashing from audiophiles, *someone* is buying them.

Or get really nutty and buy a pair of their VE12s, an old-skool but proven design with a 12" woofer. Pretty cheap at $320 per pair, since "big" doesn't sell well these days. Unless you absolutely have to have the loooooowest bass frequencies below 30Hz (not present in all movies and certainly not in most music), you don't really need a subwoofer when using these, since they can knock pictures off the wall all by themselves with the right receiver.

MTX's home speakers are similar to CV in sound, but IMO not quite as clean sounding, but they do cost less. Their thin styling looks pretty nice I think. Circuit City sells their SW2 sub in their stores, which for only $160 sounded pretty decent and was built well, but at that price cannot get all that loud, say, in a large living room.

Re: A question on two systems...

I've got to say that for being a fourteen year old you demonstrate far better language skills than many older posters on the A/V forums. You also demonstrate patience and a willingness to listen and learn far better than many others on A/V sites. The recommendations and knowledge above are all good, the av123 x-series is a good place to start. One other tidbit is that often times music and movie may not sound the same from the same speakers. In other words you may hear people say that one particular system is better for music and another is better for movies.

Re: A question on two systems...

yeah there are a lot of those "hard" types in the HT world. between posting here and watching finding nemo, many of us hit the gin and juice and get inked with our latest ht purchase model nubers.

BOO-yakasha!

Re: A question on two systems...

In my opinion, that VSX-516 can power those VE12s to very loud levels in a bedroom, I'm sure much louder than your parents would allow (if they're at home that is )......but they can definitely absorb more power than the Pioneer can produce.

Yep - the link points directly to all the CV speakers they sell. J&R Music has a huge store in Manhattan and I've never heard anyone talk badly about them.

Reminder: these speakers are heavy - 51lbs each! - and unless you go there & pick them up yourself, shipping is going to add just a bit to their final price.

When I used to sell CVs (along with Advent, JBL, Bose, KLH, Cambridge Soundworks and Infinity) I would tell customers they are the equivalent of that wacky uncle everyone seems to have, the one who wears Hawaiian shirts, talks a lot, tells lots of dopey jokes & is generally a one-man party - while he wears you out faster than most people, until that happens he is a lot of fun to hang out with. FYI: Cerwin's newish "CLS" series is not exactly like this: they're the same basic "uncle" but these know to keep quiet at church and to change into a nice Polo shirt at dinner time.

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If you want to check out older "big" loudspeakers (which you can also buy), check out this site. I don't know these people, this is just for informational purposes. Lots of neat stuff there! BTW: while I fully believe subwoofers can sound excellent, IMO if they aren't perfectly set up which involves lots of time and preferably a calibration disc and a sound level meter, because of their ability to easily produce a LOT of bass they can also end up sounding much worse than a pair of conventional loudspeakers (and yes, I use a sub in my own system). Kind of like how when driving when it's rainy, it's much easier to put yourself in a ditch with a Corvette vs. a Corolla! (yea I know, one is rear wheel drive and the other front-wheel drive but y'all know what I'm getting at ).

Re: A question on two systems...

Why would you say "I just want to drive my mom crazy with the whole house shaking because of the music..." when she is making it possible for you to get a new stereo so your "Games" sound better??? "Oh...ok, well it's because I have to use my moms credit card and she is crazy about using her card online."

Re: A question on two systems...

This is a little like trying to describe how much salt another person likes on their fries but here goes.......

The VE12's will have lots of powerful bass for 90% of music and movies, but as far as how LOW they will go: relatively speaking they will not go as low as, say, the typical $500 subwoofer with a 12" woofer properly located in a room.

Anyone who has heard a Cerwin-Vega knows that for their size, compared to other less "rowdy" brands their bass is very powerful and has lots of "kick", which is great for rock, metal and hip-hop. To do this AND not require a large receiver to power them, especially for the larger models CV has sacrificed the very lowest frequencies, usually under 25Hz. It's those very low notes that require the most power to reproduce and why good subs have such large amplifers (compared to most receivers).

As far as the bass that game soundtracks TYPICALLY have, I have no idea so you might be missing out on some ultra-rumbly stuff. Maybe someone else here more informed on that issue could chime in here.

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Old fart rant, though I was only born in 1965 : before HT came along with all its power-hungry & artificially-generated extreme low frequency effects (and Blose pushing its cheesy plastic cube systems) literally for decades receivers with just 20-50 watts per channel and speakers with bass reaching to "only" 40Hz or at the lowest 30Hz* did perfectly fine for Average Joes and audiophiles alike & regularly pissed off parents and neighbors. Now for some reason these days everything has to be "extreme" - kind of like politics, food portions, SUVs, etc - so even if you don't need it, audio systems with perfomance you'll hardly ever or never use are pushed hard.

I guess I'm a wee bit tired of hearing that we all need our systems to reach down to 20Hz at reference level to enjoy everything we listen to.

* the most popular speakers ever sold here in the 70s, the Large Advent, got down to 35Hz.