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Lawrence Of Arabia in HD - Page 2

post #31 of 168
6/22/07 at 10:00am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
They did resolution tests with The King and I at Fox and it topped out at around 3k horizontal, this was in the most detailed scenes. The 55mm camera used for Cinemascope 55 was not very good so I would expect technology advances in both camera technology and film material to allow LOA to go beyond 4k from time to time. Even if it is only to be on the safe side 8k is not a bad idea. With the first digital cinemas already starting to show stuff in 4k 8k seems like a safe and sensible standard to capture every detail that is there is to be captured in the 70mm negative. As you said we can go back to 4k easily and once such a transfer is done it is unlikely to be repeated for quite some time so why not make sure to get all the resolution there is.

But almost everything will be better than what is currently available in HD

I think the big problem with CinemaScope 55 was the quality of the Bausch & Lomb anamorphic taking lenses. The early lenses were known to be problematic.

Its nice to see that Fox is working on some of its classic large format films. I hope they start pumping out some of the CinemaScope films from the 50s and 60s too.

In 89 I actually saw Lawrence in 70mm, and then a week later saw Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade in a 70mm blowup in the same theater. This was a big theater with a 65 foot curved screen. Now Last Crusade wasn't QUITE as sharp as Lawrence, but I was amazed at just how far along 35mm film stocks had come in 30 years.

Doug
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post #32 of 168
6/22/07 at 10:23am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I think the big problem with CinemaScope 55 was the quality of the Bausch & Lomb anamorphic taking lenses. The early lenses were known to be problematic.

Its nice to see that Fox is working on some of its classic large format films. I hope they start pumping out some of the CinemaScope films from the 50s and 60s too.

Unfortunately there were only these two movies done in Cinemascope 55 so there were no improved Bausch & Lomb lenses for this format.

The early 'standard' Cinemascope movies of course suffered from bad lenses, too. Add to that the fact that they had about 25% of the area of the 55mm films and you see that these will not really be showcases for HD.

A lot of these look very bad even on DVD. The first Scope release, The Robe, is a prime example. So a new master for an HD release surely has to be done - compared to what is available now there is a lot of room for improvement.

Regarding LOA I have heard good and bad things about how this one looks in 70mm and I hope that one day I'll have the chance to see one of the good prints that are still around.
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post #33 of 168
6/22/07 at 10:53am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Unfortunately there were only these two movies done in Cinemascope 55 so there were no improved Bausch & Lomb lenses for this format.

The early 'standard' Cinemascope movies of course suffered from bad lenses, too. Add to that the fact that they had about 25% of the area of the 55mm films and you see that these will not really be showcases for HD.

A lot of these look very bad even on DVD. The first Scope release, The Robe, is a prime example. So a new master for an HD release surely has to be done - compared to what is available now there is a lot of room for improvement.


Yeah the lenses used on The Robe weren't even the new Bausch & Lomb, they were the original adapters that Fox bought from Henri Chrétien. I don't think they got the Bausch & Lomb lenses until after The Robe was completed. I'm actually amazed at how good both 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and The High and the Mighty look on their recent releases.

Well I have to say I saw Lawrence in 70mm when it was restored in 89 I believe it was. It was really just stunning. The first 70mm film I had ever seen and it was a revelation. The issues with the film are really minor particularly when you are looking at it on that HUGE screen.

Doug
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post #34 of 168
6/22/07 at 2:43pm

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
the Fox people already are through most if not all of their large-format library. There are new prints of the following movies, in all cases afaik they did a 4k master, too:

Patton
The Agony and the Ecstasy
Hello Dolly !
Doctor Dolittle
South Pacific
Cleopatra
The Sound of Music

And there are 4k masters of these extra-large negative movies shot in Cinemascope 55:

Carousel
The King and I

Blu-Ray needs to get their stuff together with BD+ and I am sure we will see these being released starting next year

Oliver,

this makes my mouth water. Sound of Music and Dolly both are already scanned in 4K from large-format elements?

Sigh...

I can hardly wait.

NOW, if Fox could just NOT noise-filter that Dolly soundtrack this time around. the AC3 on the laserdisc is open, airy, and musical. The audio on the DVD is dead, flat, and sounds like someone hit the "Dolby B Noise Reduction" button on a cassette deck for a tape not encoded for Dolby B.
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post #35 of 168
1/24/08 at 11:38am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

I hope this is the appropriate post to put this in but HDNet Movies has advertised LOA in "Stunning HD". Here are the play dates according to their website: 6:15 PM ET / 3:15 PM PT - Sun, Feb 10th
12:30 AM ET - Mon, Feb 11th / 9:30 PM PT - Sun, Feb 10th
2:15 PM ET / 11:15 AM PT - Sat, Feb 16th
4:30 PM ET / 1:30 PM PT - Wed, Feb 20th
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post #36 of 168
1/24/08 at 11:44am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

I would expect Lawrence and the other Sony owned Lean films (The Bridge on the River Kwai, A Passage to India) to be out on BD by the end of the year.
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post #37 of 168
1/24/08 at 2:16pm

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Oliver,

this makes my mouth water. Sound of Music and Dolly both are already scanned in 4K from large-format elements?

Sigh...

I can hardly wait.

NOW, if Fox could just NOT noise-filter that Dolly soundtrack this time around. the AC3 on the laserdisc is open, airy, and musical. The audio on the DVD is dead, flat, and sounds like someone hit the "Dolby B Noise Reduction" button on a cassette deck for a tape not encoded for Dolby B.

I agree on all points, but keep in mind just because they did 4k scans, did they do them properly? The remastered DVD of South Pacific has some issues with softness, and it was scanned at 4k when restored at Fotokem.
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post #38 of 168
1/26/08 at 5:16am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA
I agree on all points, but keep in mind just because they did 4k scans, did they do them properly? The remastered DVD of South Pacific has some issues with softness, and it was scanned at 4k when restored at Fotokem.
Then the softness is in the film elements used.
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post #39 of 168
1/26/08 at 5:35am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
I would expect Lawrence and the other Sony owned Lean films (The Bridge on the River Kwai, A Passage to India) to be out on BD by the end of the year.

I hope you're right. I've been waiting a year for an anouncement of LOA and if they put out Kwai with it I'll be doing backflips.




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post #40 of 168
1/26/08 at 1:23pm

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Fig
I hope this is the appropriate post to put this in but HDNet Movies has advertised LOA in "Stunning HD". Here are the play dates according to their website: 6:15 PM ET / 3:15 PM PT - Sun, Feb 10th
12:30 AM ET - Mon, Feb 11th / 9:30 PM PT - Sun, Feb 10th
2:15 PM ET / 11:15 AM PT - Sat, Feb 16th
4:30 PM ET / 1:30 PM PT - Wed, Feb 20th
Thanks for the post Mat. I'll have my HD-DVR all warmed up.
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post #41 of 168
1/27/08 at 12:58am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michel_Hafner
Then the softness is in the film elements used.

Perhaps. I heard reports from those who saw the new 70mm print of South Pacific that it was a little soft. I didn't see it, but I did see the faded original print of the uncut version, and it wasn't soft at all.

I believe Fox made two 70mm prints of The Sound of Music a few years ago, because I saw the film twice in 70mm; once (in 2003 at the Samuel Goldwyn Theater in Beverly Hills for 75 Years of Oscar, with Robert Wise and some cast and crew in attendance) it was sharp as a tack and colorful, the other time (in 2005 at the Widescreen Weekend in Bradford, England) it was soft and subdued.

The other recent Fox 70mm reprints I saw (Hello Dolly, The Agony and the Ecstacy, and Doctor Dolittle) looked breathtaking. These films flopped at the box office so their negatives didn't get used that much.
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post #42 of 168
1/28/08 at 8:35am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Fig
I hope this is the appropriate post to put this in but HDNet Movies has advertised LOA in "Stunning HD". Here are the play dates according to their website: 6:15 PM ET / 3:15 PM PT - Sun, Feb 10th
12:30 AM ET - Mon, Feb 11th / 9:30 PM PT - Sun, Feb 10th
2:15 PM ET / 11:15 AM PT - Sat, Feb 16th
4:30 PM ET / 1:30 PM PT - Wed, Feb 20th

Thanks! I can hardly wait!!
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post #43 of 168
1/30/08 at 5:10am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Well according to another sites "insider" we'll be lucky to see LOA on BD in 08 citing Sony Marketing not having decided on what the extra value content will be included. Maybe a find Lawrence in the sand dune Java game? Whatever Sony, you just keep on cranking out classics like First Knight, the 6th Day and Godzilla '98. If those titles don't draw in the classic film aficionado demographic nothing will.



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post #44 of 168
1/30/08 at 6:34pm

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

i guess the value of the film just isnt enough anymore
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post #45 of 168
1/31/08 at 7:42am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Considering the sumptuous 2-disc SE they had of this film on SD DVD, I would think that it's a no-brainer to load the Blu-ray to the hilt with AT LEAST the same bonus material.

Why not?

My guess is here's the real problem:

1. is the existing HD transfer good enough or does it need to be done again to get rid of the "hard coded" edge-ringing?

2. do they need to prepare any special features in HD rather than SD?
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post #46 of 168
1/31/08 at 8:13am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

When Lawrence is released on HDM its quality should be on par with the best transfers out there as the quality of the original and restored elements certainly is good enough for that. Everything else I don't care about and I would guess that most others who are interested in the movie have similar priorities.

Lawrence has been aired in HD in Asia, Europe and North America and the quality we see from these airings should be surpassed by a fair margin with a release on Blu-Ray.
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post #47 of 168
1/31/08 at 11:31am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Fig
I hope this is the appropriate post to put this in but HDNet Movies has advertised LOA in "Stunning HD". Here are the play dates according to their website: 6:15 PM ET / 3:15 PM PT - Sun, Feb 10th
12:30 AM ET - Mon, Feb 11th / 9:30 PM PT - Sun, Feb 10th
2:15 PM ET / 11:15 AM PT - Sat, Feb 16th
4:30 PM ET / 1:30 PM PT - Wed, Feb 20th


Thanks for the heads-up Matt. My DVR is set to record.
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post #48 of 168
2/1/08 at 10:14am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

If they don't have 4k scanners for 65MM ,How did they do the 65MM parts
of Blade Runner
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post #49 of 168
2/1/08 at 10:25am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
If they don't have 4k scanners for 65MM ,How did they do the 65MM parts
of Blade Runner

There are 4k and 8k scanners that I know of for 65mm material.
So that wouldn't be a problem, plus I doubt that they would need to scan any 65mm elements for Blade Runner.

I also sampled the workprint that had been in 70mm and from the look of it I'd say it was processed in a conventional telecine to keep down costs.
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post #50 of 168
2/1/08 at 2:27pm

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski
If they don't have 4k scanners for 65MM ,How did they do the 65MM parts
of Blade Runner

The 65mm elements of Blade Runner would have been reduction printed to 35mm in 1982 for inclusion in the final inter negative. These reduction elements were probably used for the digital scans on the final cut.

Doug
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post #51 of 168
2/1/08 at 2:33pm

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Why are we talking about PS3 and format war rhetoric in this thread about Lawrence of Arabia in HD? Can we please stop hijacking another thread with the same old tired arguments. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same crap over and over again?

Edit: I just moved 19 posts that got off topic in this thread. Let's have this thread devoted to LOA in HD. Thank you.




Crawdaddy
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post #52 of 168
2/20/08 at 9:23am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

FYI:

"Lawrence Of Arabia" will be telecast in HD on HDNET today - 2/20/08.

Source = HDNET MOVIES

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNET MOVIES
Lawrence Of Arabia - Closed Captions - New for February!
Rating: PG
Year: 1962
Cast: Peter O'Toole, Alec Guinness, Anthony Quinn
Director: David Lean
Synopsis: Universally recognized as one of the greatest films of all time, Lawrence of Arabia tells the epic true story of T.E. Lawrence, a British military officer who helped organize the Arabian revolt against the Turks.
Run Time: 3:36
Air Dates: Wed, Feb 20th - 4:30 PM ET / 1:30 PM PT
Sun, Feb 24th - 5:00 AM ET / 2:00 AM PT
Thu, Feb 28th - 12:00 PM ET / 9:00 AM PT[/url]

Paul
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post #53 of 168
2/20/08 at 9:49am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hillenbrand
FYI:

"Lawrence Of Arabia" will be telecast in HD on HDNET today - 2/20/08.

Source = HDNET MOVIES


Paul

The transfer used looks better than the DVD but not like really good HD.
For those who do not want to watch this movie every year or more often I suggest to wait for the Blu-Ray release.

Oliver
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post #54 of 168
2/21/08 at 9:00am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

I was also disappointed with the transfer. Auntie Mame, which was also on HDNET, looks much better.
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post #55 of 168
2/21/08 at 9:02am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
The transfer used looks better than the DVD but not like really good HD.
For those who do not want to watch this movie every year or more often I suggest to wait for the Blu-Ray release.

Oliver

I agree. I watched a few segments (too busy to sit through the whole thing - should have recorded it). Brightly lit or high contrast scenes looked pretty good, but there was some clayface/smearing in darker scenes, like a day-for-night segment in the desert.

This is typical of the HD quality I've seen on TV (FiOS). It's obviously much better than SD, but a good Blu-Ray of the same material would look the best.

Doug
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post #56 of 168
2/21/08 at 9:12am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
The transfer used looks better than the DVD but not like really good HD.
I saw obvious ghosting/EE in one scene.
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post #57 of 168
2/21/08 at 9:23am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Otte
This is typical of the HD quality I've seen on TV (FiOS). It's obviously much better than SD, but a good Blu-Ray of the same material would look the best.

There was an airing in the UK from the same master and the resolution is slightly above half HD resolution (960 x 540) which is a shame for a movie that could be a reference title.
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post #58 of 168
2/21/08 at 11:30am

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
The transfer used looks better than the DVD but not like really good HD.
After viewing the movie yesterday, I would have to agree 100%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco S
I was also disappointed with the transfer. Auntie Mame, which was also on HDNET, looks much better.
Auntie Mame looked better to me also, but I only viewed it on my 34" 1080i direct view HDTV (Sony KW-34HD1) and viewed Lawrence Of Arabia projected @ 1080P on my 110" theater screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Otte (Re: LOA)
Brightly lit or high contrast scenes looked pretty good, but there was some clayface/smearing in darker scenes, like a day-for-night segment in the desert.............a good Blu-Ray of the same material would look the best.
In addition to the "clayface/smearing in darker scenes", there was a very noticeable segment where the smearing would pulsate lighter and darker. That segment really needs to have greater restoration involvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
There was an airing in the UK from the same master and the resolution is slightly above half HD resolution (960 x 540) which is a shame for a movie that could be a reference title.
Totally agree! In my experience on a large screen, the overall softness of LOA could still be compared with good quality DVD's.

IMHO, it needs to be authored with full 1080P resolution from an 8K digital master!

Paul
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post #59 of 168
2/21/08 at 2:58pm

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

I'm wondering whether HDNet movies is getting copies of Sony's existing digital masters. When they showed Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, the colors looked more like the old DVD than the new one (via screenshots I saw on DVD Beaver), with very pinkish fleshtones like pigs (for the white actors, anyway).

Auntie Mame was shot in Technirama, but I have no idea where they got the transfer from. It should look amazing in Blu-Ray.
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post #60 of 168
2/21/08 at 3:30pm

Re: Lawrence Of Arabia in HD

My wife and I with some friends watched this movie on our 9' screen and it was a thoroughly enjoyable experience. Our friends couldn't get over how fantastic the PQ/AQ was and we all agreed that this was the most theater like experience since we saw this film back in the '60s. Great movie.
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