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Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion - Page 3

post #61 of 227
3/28/07 at 8:34am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Kyle:

It is unfortunately probably a good idea not to get our hopes up unless and until there's explicit confirmation of high resolution aud. If it doesn't say high rez surround it probably isn't.

". . . includes these 13 new songs in hi-resolution audio, the entire album in 5.1 surround sound . . ." could definitely be read to mean, say, 16/48 stereo and lossy surround.

Please do drop in again if you see any specs somewhere.
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post #62 of 227
3/28/07 at 8:53am
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

If I find any, I'll report them.
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post #63 of 227
3/28/07 at 9:18am
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Some general info:
http://online.wsj.com/public/article..._20070803.html

This is all I could find on specs.
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6360704.html

Quote:
In Warner’s case, the music tracks could be in DVD-Video’s traditional 2.0- and 5.1-channel compressed Dolby Digital format, which is playable on all existing DVD–Video players and DVD-ROM drives, or in the two- and 5.1-channel DVD-Audio format, which is playable in any DVD-Audio/Video player that supports the format. If DVD-Audio is used, then the DVD-Audio tracks will also be available on the same disc in compressed Dolby Digital 5.1 in the disc’s video zone and be playable on more common DVD-Video players and PC’s DVD-ROM drives.

Sounds like dual-disc. You never knew what you were going to get, except for Sony which never put high-rez audio on it's dvd side. Since Warner backed dvd-audio, I would say there is a fair chance that it has dvd-audio tracks.
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post #64 of 227
3/28/07 at 12:49pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

New review, posted at

http://www.getreadytorock.com/reviews2007/rush.htm

Quote:
RUSH Snakes & Arrows Atlantic (2007)

Rush

Nothing concentrates the mind better than having to review a new Rush album after just one solitary play. And after this playback at Atlantic Records HQ in Kensington I was left breathless, if not stunned by the sheer power of an album that stylistically throws in the proverbial kitchen sink.

I suppose after such an enduring and varied musical career, it's not surprising that Rush have gone back to their Proggy musical roots. And with former Foo Fighters Alex Raskulinecz at the controls, the band are given a free reign to indulge their musical excesses, as they stretch out and jam in a post Zeppelin heavy duty deluge that manifests itself in a stunning wall of sound.

Aside from a high in the mix raucous drum sound and some complex arrangements, vocalist Geddy Lee's successfully uses his impressive high range to give full meaning to Neil Peart's esoteric lyrics. Where once there was a thin high register vocal line, there is now a more mature vocalist whose phrasing puts him up there with Robert Plant in his element.

'Snakes & Arrows' opens with the new single 'Far Cry', which after a big, powerful staccato drum intro opens into a slice of melodic hard rock with a lilting chorus. 'A Far Cry' is much more accessible than much of the rest of the album and sets the standard with a belated chorus that stays in the mind long after the conclusion of the song.

The following 'Armor & Sword' features some of Peart's best lyrics, and might be regarded as a metaphor for both personal faith and contemporary world events. The line, 'Our better natures seek elevation, A refuge for the coming night, No One gets to their heaven without a fight', seems to be a personal reflection but can be taken as a wry comment on our times, while 'The suit of shining armor, becomes a keen and bloody sword', is an uncompromising analysis of the machinations of religion and faith.

'Working Them Angels' employs a big wall of sound and is punctuated by urgent time changes which build up a tension that is finally resolved by the 'Working them angels-Overtime' line. 'The Large Bowl' is a more radio friendly affair and is one of the highlights of the album. Opening with an acoustic guitar and a vocal line that recalls Mark Bolan, the hook has a hypnotic quality about it, before Alex Lifeson delivers a trademark solo.

There's more of the evocative big sweep wall of sound on 'Spindrift'. The song cleverly uses natural elements in the lyrics as metaphors and delivers big booming chords and a heavy duty rhythm track topped by some lovely bass notes and jangling guitar.

Guitarist Alex Lifeson sounds a little like U2's The Edge as the band use an ascending chord sequence and a stop time rhythm before plunging back into an explosion of riffs. 'Spindrift' impresses if only for the fact that Rush manage to make the music conjure up the lyrical imagery.

'The Main Monkey Business' is the first and certainly the most impressive of three instrumental outings. It's interesting to see what Rush make of a piece that doesn't have to accommodate the lyrics, and the result is a guitar-led motif with a vaguely Celtic/Zeppelin sounding feel, and a real sense of presence and controlled power. The mid-section slips into a Space Rock outing that resolves itself in a Prog Metal oeuvre as layers of keyboards beef up the melody line.

'Monkey Business' is both coherent, powerful and delivers a polished production without ever losing the essential band dynamic. Another drum intro graces 'The Way the Wind Blows' before giving way to a surprising heavy duty bluesy guitar led shuffle. If anything there are elements of Jethro Tull's soft Metal period of the late 80's with the song's poignant lyrics about the pseudo East/West religious divide glued together by repeated heavy guitar riffs, some belated space rock elements, and impressive vocal swoops. The second instrumental 'Hope' is a pleasant if unchallenging acoustic link piece with a Eastern, almost sea shanty feel, while 'Faithless' is an impressive return to the lyrical raison d'etre of the album. The line 'I've got my own moral compass to steer by' neatly summarises the song's meaning, and it is essentially a simple outing that derives an anthemic quality from some big production trappings that include the use of a mellotron. If 'Faithless' is another high point of the album then 'Bravest Face' continues the upwards curve, with its acoustic intro, some complex crunching chords, and impressive lyrics that dwell on the nature of mankind's duality.

'Good News First' doesn't work as well, with the high register vocals struggling manfully to unravel the lyrical meaning over another big production wall of sound. Curiously enough the sometimes impenetrable nature of the previous track adds lucidity to the following hard hitting rocked out instrumental 'Malignant Narcissism'. This short piece of guitar drenched Space Rock works really well and even finds time for some impressive bass and drum breaks.

The closing 'We Hold On' is the perfect kind of powerful and coherent outing to finish with and features soaring vocals, feverish guitar, a pounding rhythm track and a strong chorus.

'Snakes & Arrows' is a powerful album which in striving to be contemporary is possibly a little heavier and a touch more cluttered than it needed to be. Neil Peart's heartfelt lyrics are impressive throughout, and Geddy Lee's vocals suggest a new maturity. Above all the band find room to jam out enthusiastically, but in occasionally over egging the arrangements and sometimes falling in between the Prog Rock, Space Rock and melodic Metal genres, 'Snakes & Arrows' might be a CD that seeks to consolidate rather than break new ground.

****

Review by Pete Feenstra
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post #65 of 227
3/28/07 at 1:30pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Thx, Kyle. I'm avoiding reading reviews for now. A quick skim of that one though reveals that the writer got the co-producer's name wrong.

Anywho, although it's on a different label (RCA), the Raskulinecz-produced One By One has 24-bit/96k stereo and surround tracks. Here's hoping he does the same or better for Snakes.
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post #66 of 227
3/29/07 at 6:33am
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Here is a link to a pdf file that Anthem put out for retailers. It says the dvd has all 13 tracks in "high resolution audio". I hope that means dvd-audio, but it might just mean 16/48 stereo.

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/cov...salessheet.pdf
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post #67 of 227
3/29/07 at 7:47am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Thx for that sell sheet PDF link, Kyle.

It's remarkable how it nicely includes so much info, except that which the arguably core audience for the "DVD-Album" wants to know: the rez specs of the aud tracks.

Nathan, to make explicit what already seems implicitly obvious by your not returning to substantiate the claim: unless and until I see some evidence to the contrary, I call b.s. on your claim that a VT remaster "was being held back until the release of the new album." I think we would be seeing promo info about that reissue right alongside S & A info were that true.

It's too bad it's apparently not true though--the absence of a VT remaster compared to every other Atlantic studio album is conspicuous in the "Also Available" discography section of the sell sheet.
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post #68 of 227
3/30/07 at 8:46am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Paul, Google is an amazing thing. Enter "Vapor Trails Remaster," and it's a click away. No need to call b.s. on me so quickly in a world of such easily accessed information.

At http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/VTnews.htm#remaster

Quote:
"May 16, 2005: Atlantic Records once again delays the release of the Vapor Trails Remaster. Fans hoping for a clean recording without the audio problems found in the original release will have to wait. What is confirmed is that the album has been remastered, and although nothing has been said officially, it is rumored that Atlantic decided to delay releasing the remaster until the next Rush release, as there are apparently plenty of the original in stock."

Now, you may doubt the veracity of this rumor. But at least I didn't make it up.


The news on the DVD-album has been some of the best news I've heard in a while. I'm really excited about this release!!!
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post #69 of 227
3/30/07 at 9:52am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

. . . you may doubt the veracity of this rumor.

Nathan, with all due, you're a little foggy on the definition of facts versus rumors. Rumors by definition don't have veracity.

. . . the remaster of Vapor Trails--which was apparently completed last year--was being held back until the release of the new album. The reasoning was that since there were many of the original VT CDs still in stock, no need to release it yet.


The delay of the reissue's release is a fact. The reason(s) behind that delay is/are fansite rumor, which you then regurgitated as fact (despite the site explicitly stating that it is rumor).

You may think this is putting too fine a point on it, but given all the speculation, blue balls and disappointment in the past three years over everything from the VT remaster to Rush SA-CDs that never happened, I think it important to be precise and clear: rumor is NOT factual information.
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post #70 of 227
3/30/07 at 12:22pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

True high-rez audio or not, I'm just glad that it seems apparent at least we won't have the Vapor Trails debacle this time.
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post #71 of 227
3/30/07 at 1:29pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Very good point, Scott. I was thinking the same thing. At the very least, they *appear* to have made SQ a priority again.

Paul, I'm willing to allow the rumor to work its magic with me. I read it as hopeful, rather than a reason to anticipate dissapointment. The rumor part is only about the release date. "What is confirmed is that the album has been remastered . . . "

You might think that's flimsy, but I've been reading that particular site for a long while, and I've never read anything that turned out to be unreliable that I can remember. Either way, I don't mind getting my hopes up, even if they're false. It appears we differ in this.
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post #72 of 227
4/2/07 at 3:32pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

If the "DVD-Album" included DVD-A or was a DualDisc, then the press release would probably say so. I expect that, technically speaking, it's just a regular DVD.
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post #73 of 227
4/2/07 at 3:48pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I agree. I think it may have a 24/96 stereo track, but no dvd-audio. The 5.1 mix will be dolby digital only.
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post #74 of 227
4/2/07 at 4:15pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

24/96 (stereo) resolution (which is greater than I think can be put in the audio section of the "DVD-Video" side of a DVD) would make it like one of those Classic Records "Digital Audio Discs": it's basically a DVD-A in every way but name because of marketing/spec reasons.
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post #75 of 227
4/2/07 at 4:18pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Also, I don't have any of the Deluxe Editions in front of me at work but didn't Warner put "Advanced Resolution" tracks on the DVD disc of the CD+DVD packages of Seal's Best 1991-2004 and R.E.M.'s Out Of Time and Monster, yet I don't think they say "DVD-Audio" on the package or disc. Could be wrong--will check at home unless someone has one of those releases handy.
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post #76 of 227
4/2/07 at 5:20pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Paul,

LPCM in dvd-video can be 16 or 24 bits, and 48K or 96K sampling. You are right about the REM and Seal discs, I'm not sure they said dvd-audio, so we may get lucky. They can definetly put 24/96 on dvd-video, I think there are some Neil Young discs like this. Also, Eric Johnson's "Ah Via Musicom" and Queensryche's "Empire" have 24/96 tracks in the video portion of the disc.
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post #77 of 227
4/2/07 at 9:01pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Thx for LPCM info, Kyle. That makes saying that this might be a "regular DVD" or "not DVD-Audio" all the more problematic: it could very well (hopefully) be what we think of as a DVD-Video disc with content usually associated with and playable on DVD-Audio players (namely, 24/96 stereo content). Another example of why it is called and best thought of as the Digital Versatile Disc.

Good reminder re Empire. I just put that (and Crowded House; I think this was a Capitol phenomena) in my Tosh HD DVD player (which is of course unfortunately not DVD-A compatible) for brief spins. Yup yup: those 24/96 stereo tracks play just fine; the player just doesn't show me the surround mix in the menu.

This is IMO all the more reason for this "DVD-Album" to AT LEAST give us 24/96 stereo in addition to maybe lossy surround dang it.

I also stand corrected on the "Deluxe" Seal Best (and his 1991 debut): although they were neither packaged nor marketed like DVD-As, they do both have a small DVD-A logo on the back, right next to the logos for the label, "NTSC," DD, Region 1, etc. The front just says "5.1 Surround Sound Music."
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post #78 of 227
4/3/07 at 8:32am
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

The only bad thing about 24/96 in the dvd-video side is MLP cannot be used to compress the data, so it takes up more room. If the stereo track were in the dvd-audio side, MLP could be used. MLP must be used on on 5.1 dvd-audio tracks above 24/48 (if I remember correctly), to keep the data rate at or below dvd specs.
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post #79 of 227
4/3/07 at 11:49am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElevSkyMovie
Also, Eric Johnson's "Ah Via Musicom" and Queensryche's "Empire" have 24/96 tracks in the video portion of the disc.
Just a quickie off-topic note: last summer, EJ said he was remixing that album himself after Capitol did such a horrible job on it* in 2002 and quickly recalled it but never gave a date for its release. I've owned the CD version for years and still like to listen to it but knowing EJ's reputation for perfection, the surround remix - if it ever comes out at all - could take a long time coming to a music store near you.

* I owned it myself for a week and can verify this
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post #80 of 227
4/3/07 at 12:02pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

It was my understanding Capitol was refusing to let him reissue it and that's why years have passed with no further release activity on this. IIRC he asked people to write Cap to complain. There's a whole 'nother thread about this somewhere, too.
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post #81 of 227
4/4/07 at 9:47am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

On a side-but-Rush-related-note, Wolfgang's Vault has posted a 1986 Toronto show (or an hour of it, at least).
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post #82 of 227
4/5/07 at 7:21pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Good news. Amazon now has the "Snakes and Arrows" special edition listed as a dvd-audio.
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post #83 of 227
4/5/07 at 8:34pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElevSkyMovie
Good news. Amazon now has the "Snakes and Arrows" special edition listed as a dvd-audio.

Thanks for this link......I was not having any luck searching Amazon for this. The CD came up, but I couldn't find the DVD to save my a**.

I put a pre-order in. I expect that the CD will be available pretty much everywhere, but maybe not the DVD.

Anyone notice this from the Amazon listing?

What Is MVI? With a higher storage capacity than a standard CD, the Music Video Interactive Disc (MVI) contains new interactive features including, superior sound quality, a wide range of video features, and interactive digital content. MVI discs plays in all standard DVD players, computers, and game consoles with DVD drives but do not play in conventional CD players. Digital music files are compatible with all MP3 devices.

I don't recall reading about MVI before.

Brian
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post #84 of 227
4/6/07 at 1:18am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Sounds like "DVD-Album" by another name.

Got One By One and its surround and stereo tracks are 24/88.2.
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post #85 of 227
4/6/07 at 12:46pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

From the Amazon.com listing:

Please Note: This is a DVD-Audio disc which is playable on most DVD players as well as all DVD-Audio players. Click here for additional information regarding compatibility.

Hmmmmmmm.
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post #86 of 227
4/6/07 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

From Power Windows:

Quote:
# Snakes & Arrows News Update: "DVD Album" Delayed til June 5th/VH-1 Special & Walmart "Exclusive"
Update (Apr. 5th, part 1): While while the CD release of Snakes & Arrows is still set for May 1st, the much anticipated DVD Album Limited Edition has been delayed yet again. The new L.E. release date is now June 5th. No details have been given at to why, but there have been rumors of production delays with the DVD Album

Update (Apr. 5th, part 2): In addition to the CD and Limited Edition offered elsewhere, Walmart is offering a CD version "with Exclusive Video Download". According to their website, "this package will include a video clip from the upcoming VH-1 Special on Rush." This upcoming VH-1 Special is obviously news in itself, but it has been confirmed that the "exclusive video" is a video of Geddy and Alex's appearance on XM's "Artist Confidential" from 2004. The video is obtained via a special code which is included either in the Walmart packaging or embedded in the CD itself, which allows the purchaser to download the video. Note, this video will NOT include the acoustic performances of "Heart Full of Soul" and "Resist", which were a part of the original audio broadcast which aired on XM Radio in Oct. 2004.
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post #87 of 227
4/6/07 at 2:17pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

From www.rushmessageboard.com:

Quote:
As explained in my first post, the DVD album is a DVD alone. It will not play in CD players, and there is no CD. Some of the retail sites seem to be confused. But don't worry they've taken care of that.

I got to see a Warner Music demo of a DVD album last night. You pop it into your computer, and just like a DVD movie, on the main menu there were five or six areas of the DVD ranging from an audio area, to a video area, buddy icons and wallpaper, ringtone creator, etc.

In the audio area, just like any media player you can click and play. But on the demo DVD, there was also an option for "Save". When we clicked on that, it was asking you to select a folder on your hard drive to save the audio to. I was told this is a CD quality export of the audio, which you can then burn to a CD, although we didn't go through the process to check the bit rate.

Also, on this DVD in the text area, there was a PDF document for you to print and create your own jewelcase art if you so choose. So for those that hate digipaks, they give you the high res PDF file to create your own art which was very nice.

Also, not sure if Rush will have this, but in one area of the DVD, there was one song which you could play in "Multitrack" mode, which gave the option to selectively turn or off "main vocal" "background vocal" "lead guitar" "bass" "drums" "percussion", etc. So for example, if you are a drummer, you could turn off the drums from the multi track and play along, etc. There was no option to export a selectively chosen multitrack, however.
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post #88 of 227
4/8/07 at 10:04pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Typically literate, interesting Neil on "The Game Of Snakes and Arrows"--a "making of" on the new record.
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post #89 of 227
4/18/07 at 11:51am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

There now is a 45 sec. track of "Spindrift" available on www.rush.com.

David
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post #90 of 227
4/18/07 at 11:54am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Noll
There now is a 45 sec. track of "Spindrift" available on www.rush.com.
I'll reserve judgment since it's just a 30 second clip heard by me only a few times...but I don't like it at this point. Which means I'll probably love it eventually.
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