Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion - Page 7

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

LOL, Scott. Yeah, after all, the release dates were "tied."

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

My 'Snakes & Arrows' review...

I don't like to give a full review without listening to an album for at least a month (especially Rush), although I don't think you can truly rate how good an album is until years later. Perhaps I should be reviewing Vapor Trails now. So without further ado...

Overall, I think it's definitely better than the last two, which I guess is good considering it sounds a lot like those two. While those Test For Echo and Vapor Trails have a couple klunkers in there, I don't really have a "skip" song on 'Snakes & Arrows' at this point. Of course that could change. I could see 'Workin Them Angels' becoming a "skip track" over time. Just the three instrumentals alone makes it better than Vapor Trails. The audio quality is certainly better than Vapor Trails, but it's still a little disappointing that they still don't have it right. I'm looking forward to seeing how the MVI sounds (assuming it is ever even released).

Lyrically, I think this is Neil's best work since Presto. I'm sure many will disagree with me on that, but these lyrics really speak to me, which always makes for a better listening experience.

Here is a song breakdown for those interested. I'm sure it varies greatly from everyone else...
Far Cry - Definitely their best "first released" single in a long while, but also not the best stuff on the album. Neil really rocks this song.
Armor & Sword - This is slowly becoming my favorite track on the album, which makes sense considering it took me a while to warm up to it.
Workin' Them Angels - Not one of my favorites. It's okay, but the lyrics are a little cheesy.
The Larger Bowl - The whole pantoum thing is a neat idea for a song, but I'm not really feeling it with this track.
Spindrift - Great song. Although I have no idea what it's about.
The Main Monkey Business - Love it, as I love all Rush instrumentals.
The Way The Wind Blows - I really liked this song the first time I heard it, and I still do, but it hasn't taken that next step for me. Yet.
Hope - Alex. Acoustic guitar. Nuff said.
Faithless - Best song on the album bar none. The fact that the lyrics really speak to me help it a lot as well. Best Rush song probably since something off of Counterparts.
Bravest Face - I really like this song, but man...depressing.
Good News First - Nothing special, but okay.
Malignant Narcissism - Great stuff. Just wish it was longer.
We Hold On - Best close to a Rush album since 'Everyday Glory'.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Wha? So far, it is my favorite track on the album.

I don't quite know what you mean by "last two", since I don't think this or Vapor Trails has much in common with Test For Echo. More than time passed between those two albums. Personally, I think Neil's writing has gotten stronger after the break. Both this and Vapor Trails are strong lyrically.

Jason

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Different strokes...especially when it comes to Rush fans...just read the beginning of this thread. I think my biggest problem with Workin Them Angels is the lyrics. Similar to 'One Little Victory' for me.

I don't know, I hear a lot of Test For Echo on this one. Probably not as much as Vapor Trails, but some of the heavier tracks remind me of Test For Echo.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

You can view some of the screenshots from the Rush MVI (and others) at this site:

http://www.mvimusic.com/

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

It's been long enough since my "MVI" pre-order for me to have changed my debit card. Received an e-mail this evening from Amazon asking me to update the card info. Seems like they're trying to charge my card and ship . . .

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

E-mail from Amazon this morning says "Your Amazon.com order has shipped . . ." Fingers tightly crossed.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I just received an email from Amazon.com indicating that mine has shipped. Estimated delivery is 6/29/07.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Interesting. I've been meaning to order that new Dream Theater, so I guess now I've got my excuse to do so.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

My MVI was delivered today from BestBuy.com, shipped last week on 6/21.

I can't wait to get home and check it out. On the Rush discussion boards there are several people who ordered from B&N and received theirs last week.

Reported in those threads is that the stereo 2.0 is 96/24, the surround 5.1 is Dolby Digital.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Likewise.....can't wait to hear it.

Brian

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

hey Brian!

some people have gotten theirs

tasty!


edit: bah - its not a DVDA

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I would have to agree on the loudness aspect. I usually listen to my 5.1 DVDs (live U2, studio Steely Dan, etc.) at around -16 to -20 dB on the volume, so when I put this in last night, I cranked it up -18 and sat back and about had my ears blown out with the opening of "Far Cry". I quickly jumped to the remote and found -24 was comparable to where I usually listen to my 5.1 music, but -28 was a comfortable volume for the S&A MVI. I also thought the Dolby Digital this time shows its limitations by making the mix a bit harsh where the cymbals were a little buried and "swishy" in some spots. It's really too bad a DTS 96/24 mix wasn't included because that potentially would have "softened" the mix in both volume and harshness. At first I was slightly disappointed in the sound and mix, but as I listened to the entire album, my ears became adjusted to how it was mixed and "in the end," I enjoyed it since the .1 was getting a full workout and added that bottom end I like so much since I found the CD mix to be lacking in low frequencies. "TMMB" is fantastic in 5.1. My wife walked in from work when it was playing and "complained" that it made her stomach feel queasy because the bottom end was so thick and vibrating. Now that's what I like!

Overall, I like the mix, although it's way more immersive because it's definitely a "full" surround mix that fills the entire room. Definitely more than I'm used to with 5.1 studio mixes in that the rear surrounds are outputting more of the general mix instead of being used for ambient sounds or surround "gimmicks". There are a few surround gimmicks that I found tasteful from the one listen last night and that was mostly with the drums: tom fills in "A&S," and the flanged hi-hat build-up at the end of "TMMB". There were a few others, like backing vocals on choruses in the rears, but I don't remember them specifically by song from one listen.

I also read on Hoffman's about listening to the 2.0 96/24 track through an analog output since the digital output downsamples to 48/16. I'll have to try that tonight because honestly I didn't hear any difference between the 96/24 2.0 stereo from the 44/16 2.0 stereo on the CD. This is probably why since I only have my DVD player setup through a digital output.

Basically, since this is the first (and hopefully not last) Rush studio album mixed for 5.1, I really like it and for a while it will get played moreso than the 2.0 stereo CD version. Could it have been better? Yes, although not everything will sound like a Steely Dan DVD-A mixed by Elliot Scheiner. Could the mix have benefited from a DTS 96/24 or MLP 5.1 encoded format? Definitely. So with this MVI, there is a little to complain about: the loudness, the aggressiveness of the full surround mix, and the lack of other encoded mix choices. But overall, it's a decent counterpart to the S&A CD and shows some promise that this MVI format will get used more in the future.

Edit: The "Making-of" documentary is pretty good too. Both strange and cool to see Rush in the studio after all these years of very little documentary footage of the trio.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Unbelievable...I was just in Wal-Mart and decided to humor myself...looked in the 'R' section of CDs, and sitting right in front was the Snakes & Arrows MVI. Even more shocking I went over to the 'D' section and sitting right there in front was the new Dream Theater. Needless to say, I picked them both up.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

So with the MVI, does anyone know of a way to pull the tracks off of there in their original format (no compression), or at least in FLAC format or something? When you run the disc on your PC, it allows you to "save" the tracks, but it automatically saves them in 192 kbs MP3. I'd like to be able to rip them at a high bit rate like 320 for my iPod and see if it sounds any better than the basic CD ripped to 320.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

There are many DVD audio-extracting tools out there. I don't know if it's breaking forum rules to post links to any of them though.

FYI, the 192kbps MP3s that you are saving from the MVI PC interface aren't ripped from the 96/24 LPCM files, they are the same files playing from that Flash PC interface, which are "pre-encoded" MP3 files located on the DVD in the "/assets/audio" directory. Actually most everything you can "save" from the DVD is located in the "/assets/" directory.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I couldn't find it at Best Buy, Target, Walmart, or Disc Jockey. Is it being delayed in some areas? Or not going to some cities? What's up?

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Thanks for the info Brian. Time to do some searching.

I had a feeling those MP3's weren't being encoded right then and there as it took about 5 seconds to "save" all of the tracks.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I ordered it yesterday on Best Buy's website and picked it up on the way home. It was backordered for free shipping, but was available for store pickup at all the local Best Buys (Palm Beach County).

I'm also very impressed with the making-of documentary. Lots of interesting information on the writing and recording process. They really opened up.

My initial reaction to the music is positive, but it'll take a few listens to form real opinions.

Aside from the DVD-related credits, is there any difference between the booklet in the MVI and the one that comes with the regular CD?

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Kyle,

Do you know whether the apps in Adobe Creative Suite can extract the PCM audio from the MVI to WAV files?

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

So here's a question...if I listen to the "hi-rez" 24 bit version on my DVD Audio capable player (Panasonic RP91), but with only a TOSLink digital cable hooked up to my preamp, am I not really listening to it in 24 bit since I don't have analog cables hooked up from the DVD player to the preamp?

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

That's what it sounds like from Brian's post, but I don't think it's related to DVD-Audio since these tracks are PCM.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

some players downsample the hirez audio before putting it out on the TOSlink. not sure if the RP91 does that - if it does you would get 24b / 48kHz (i gather thats the usual downsampling output rate)


er... if you have a DVD-A capable player why aren't your analog cables hooked up?

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Good question. I never got into the whole DVD Audio/SACD thing since pretty much none of the bands I listen to ever had a release in either format. The only other DVD Audio I own is Porcupine Tree 'In Absentia' and I was always more than happy with the DTS track on that.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Bit OT here - all the PT DVD-As are awesome - but as you said (and proven on FOABP Limited edition) the DTS track is almost as good.

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Still digesting repeated listens of the Dolby Digital before moving on to the 96/24 and then the documentary.

Interesting that the disc is authored such that the high rez content is readable by any DVD-V player, not unlike the Capitol Crowded House and Empire DVD-A titles mentioned previously.