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Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion - Page 6

post #151 of 227
5/4/07 at 2:01pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Someone involved with the recording of GUP was killed in an accident on the way to the studio, which led to the depressing lyrics and melancholy tunes. Something along those lines, anyway.
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post #152 of 227
5/4/07 at 2:03pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
"Warner Spins DVD-Inspired Physical Format, Lots Of Extras"

Against that backdrop, Warner Music Group showcased a new physical concept called MVI, a modified DVD that stands for Music Video Interactive. Among the guinea pigs is a new Rush CD, Snakes & Arrows, delivered by the wholly-owned Roadrunner. According to retail information, the album will receive a limited-pressing of 25,000 MVIs, a format that stuffs a number of video, audio, and digital assets into one disc.

Limited edition. I don't understand the reference to Roadrunner Records and think that's a mistake.

The article also says that the MVI will play in CD-ROM drives. I sense. . .player compatibility issues, Captain Picard.
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post #153 of 227
5/4/07 at 2:14pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I thought the turmoil around Grace Under Pressure was due to being under pressure from the record label to put out an album while also looking for a new producer. They had just let Terry Brown go and were having a hard time finding someone to replace him. I think they had someone lined up and he backed out at the last minute.
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post #154 of 227
5/4/07 at 2:39pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Aaron:

Someone involved with the recording of GUP was killed in an accident on the way to the studio, which led to the depressing lyrics and melancholy tunes.

Neil had said that everything from the Korean Airlines jet crash to acid rain's impact on Canada was in the news, in his regular Globe and Mail reading and on his mind/heart during the GUP writing phase. I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that any one event (Robbie Whelan's death) is the reason for the "depressing" lyrics.
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post #155 of 227
5/4/07 at 3:34pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Fair enough -- that was certainly a part of it though.
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post #156 of 227
5/4/07 at 5:47pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

God, I hate to open up this can of worms . . . I've been listening to this album in headphones all week. It has sounded fine, but I've heard some pops and crackles that I thought was merely a limitation of my $30 Sony headphones. No big deal. So now it's the weekend, and I'm cranking it.

I can't stand it. It sounds horrible. It's another repeat of Vapor Trails. No matter how I tweak my system, it sounds like crap. I'm very upset. The highs sound harsh and abrasive. The lows are boomy. The soundstage seems distorted and *distant.* The lower tom-tom drums sound waaay too boomy. The bass drum and bass guitar are horrible. Undefined and, again, "boomy." And I think there's some clipping. Maybe even a lot of clipping. It's hard to listen to. It hurts my ears no matter what volume I have it on.

Surely I'm not imagining this. Does anyone else have similar experiences with this CD? My system is not super expensive. But I've got lots of CDs that sound A LOT better than this. Sure, Vapor Trails isn't one of them. But it's not far behind.
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post #157 of 227
5/4/07 at 5:56pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Nathan, do you have Foo Fighters' One By One (preferably the DVD-A) and, if so, would you offer any comparative s.q. comments?
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post #158 of 227
5/4/07 at 7:43pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

No, I don't have that one. And I hate to bash this one. I honestly am not a perfectionist. I'm VERY happy with the R30 DVD, for instance.

I've been gushing about this CD all week. I love it. And I love Vapor Trails. I'm just really disappointed with the production. Believe me, I'm not trying to troll or start a flame war. I'm not trying to be provocative. I WANT to love this CD. More than any other CD on the market. And I don't believe I have unrealistic expectations--or lowered expectations due to Vapor Trails. Like I said, I've been listening on headphones for 4 days now and I've been happy. I've chocked up any limitations to my headphones. I was looking forward to cranking it on my main system. I was proud of it like it was mine--and wanted to show it off to my wife. I was willing to make excuses for it. . . to be a Rush fan boy. But I can't deny the obvious. It sounds bad. I'm really bummed.
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post #159 of 227
5/4/07 at 8:09pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
I stated earlier that Hold Your Fire was one of my favorite Rush albums and it deals with all sorts of "world" problems, but to my mind it is filled with more hope.

That was 20 years ago. Sometimes our familiarity with a record/movie/text we love anesthetizes us to gripping just how long ago it was created.

A lotta life happens in 20 years' time.

Maybe I have been spending too much time listening to "Time Stand Still."
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post #160 of 227
5/6/07 at 7:47pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Just picked this up last night. I have no problem with the sonics; however, the album just isn't my cup of tea (just like the last several Rush albums). Far Cry is probably my favorite track.

I will continue to buy anything Rush puts out, even though the odds are slim that they would ever give us something like Hemispheres or Moving Pictures again.
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post #161 of 227
5/7/07 at 5:57am
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I heard "Far Cry" for the first time on the radio last night. Wow, did it sound bad. Flat and lifeless. The guitars were non existant, the drums sounded like cardboard. Geddy's voice and his bass sound ok, but that's it. Compression really ruins it for all of us. Why can't the artists and labels see that?
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post #162 of 227
5/7/07 at 5:58am
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

"To keep things interesting, though, [Neil] promises Rush feels somewhat "liberated" from its catalogue after doing a pure greatest-hits tour three years ago, and will this time be honing in on new material and "old songs that we haven't played for years or that we've never played." One such gem from 1979 is in the works, although he won't say which."

The only problem with this is that Geddy can't sing the stuff from the 70's anymore. He can barely make it through 2112 and Xanadu. I would love to hear some of that stuff, but they'll have to tune down a step or something.
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post #163 of 227
5/7/07 at 7:36am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

They do tune down for 2112, but I think he still does a fine job on Xanadu. Obviously, some songs will give him problems like Something For Nothing. But most of the really high pitch stuff was over by Hemispheres. Hell, Spindrift is pitched higher than most of Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures. And just because they said they'd play stuff they haven't played in years (or never) doesn't mean there will be a lot of pre-1978. "A lot of years" could mean 20, after all. And "never" could even mean stuff off of Vapor Trails that hasn't been played yet.

I'm sure Geddy isn't going to choose stuff that puts a dangerous strain on his voice night after night. Yes, that means we'll miss some really old stuff. Or maybe they'll just do instrumental versions like they did at the opening of R30.
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post #164 of 227
5/8/07 at 1:11pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Eddy
God, I hate to open up this can of worms . . . I've been listening to this album in headphones all week. It has sounded fine, but I've heard some pops and crackles that I thought was merely a limitation of my $30 Sony headphones. No big deal. So now it's the weekend, and I'm cranking it.

I can't stand it. It sounds horrible. It's another repeat of Vapor Trails. No matter how I tweak my system, it sounds like crap. I'm very upset. The highs sound harsh and abrasive. The lows are boomy. The soundstage seems distorted and *distant.* The lower tom-tom drums sound waaay too boomy. The bass drum and bass guitar are horrible. Undefined and, again, "boomy." And I think there's some clipping. Maybe even a lot of clipping. It's hard to listen to. It hurts my ears no matter what volume I have it on.

Surely I'm not imagining this. Does anyone else have similar experiences with this CD? My system is not super expensive. But I've got lots of CDs that sound A LOT better than this. Sure, Vapor Trails isn't one of them. But it's not far behind.
I have to disagree with you. I too, until yesterday, was limited to listening to it on headphones, in the car, or through my PC. So finally yesterday when the wife and kids were out of the house I took advantage and played it in my basement theater system LOUD. I will admit that it's certainly not the best sounding CD I've heard, but it's not even close to Vapor Trails. Afterwards, I even put in Vapor Trails just to make sure my standards haven't changed since I last listened to it. And it indeed sounded like crap (mostly due to the clipping). I didn't hear any clipping in 'Snakes & Arrows'...possibly in 'Main Monkey Business', but I'm not sure if it was just intentional distortion.

If Vapor Trails gets a 2/10 in the sound quality department, I would give 'Snakes' a 7/10. So in that sense, I will admit it is still kind of disappointing that a band that prides themselves so much on quality, we can't have a 10/10 in the SQ department (maybe in the upcoming DVD release?) I mean, how are bands (like Spock's Beard & Dream Theater) with FAR less resources than Rush able to put out top notch audio quality CD's?

Oh, I listened back and forth between 2 channel stereo and 5 channel Pro Logic II. Both sounded fine, but I found myself liking the Pro Logic II a little more.

Also, I'm not sure if it was mixed differently than the others, but I found 'Far Cry' to be inferior sounding compared to the other tracks. Not sure what that's all about.
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post #165 of 227
5/8/07 at 1:36pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I have to agree. It's definitely not going to set any standards for sound quality, but it's no where near as bad as Vapor Trails. I can actually hear individual instruments in Snakes & Arrows. I couldn't say that about Vapor Trails and its "wall of sound."
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post #166 of 227
5/8/07 at 2:26pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Okay, you're both right. It was an exaggeration to say it was "Vapor Trails all over again." It's certainly not that bad. However, it's enough to distract me, enough to detract from the listening experience.

I was going to say it's a little disturbing that you like the Pro Logic II experience more than stereo--because I thought it was universally agreed that any kind of "artificial" surround sound is inferior to the original stereo mix--but then I remembered that I prefer the SRS "Wow Effect" on my computer + headphones for this particular CD. For every other CD, I don't. I'm not sure what to conclude from that, but my gut tells me it ain't good.

I still have hope for the DVD version. Rush.com says that it is 24 bit and 96kHz for the stereo tracks.
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post #167 of 227
5/8/07 at 2:35pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Eddy
I was going to say it's a little disturbing that you like the Pro Logic II experience more than stereo--because I thought it was universally agreed that any kind of "artificial" surround sound is inferior to the original stereo mix--but then I remembered that I prefer the SRS "Wow Effect" on my computer + headphones for this particular CD. For every other CD, I don't. I'm not sure what to conclude from that, but my gut tells me it ain't good.
That thought definitely crossed my mind - I rarely listen to music on that system in the basement, but when I do I usually listen in standard 2 channel stereo mode. So I suppose if it sounded better in Pro Logic II, it might be an indication it's not a good recording.
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post #168 of 227
5/8/07 at 5:05pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I'm listening to it right now in DPL II, and you're right! The things that bothered me aren't nearly as bad. Now here's where it gets weird: that's the way I listen to Rush in Rio, too. It seems to take away the big echoes from Neil's drums, brings Geddy's voice out better, and pushes the crowd down a little. I use the stereo mix, and then turn on the DPL II. Hmm. . . can't be a coincidence.

The surround version of S&A definitely separates out all the tracks a little better. I can hear things more clearly, and the clipping (I swear it's there) seems to disappear. The highs aren't as harsh, and the bass drum doesn't sound like someone is flicking my speakers with their finger.
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post #169 of 227
5/9/07 at 3:32pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Sure would be nice if the "Far Cry" video (and any others they might shoot) I understand is now on YouTube was included on the "MVI."
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post #170 of 227
5/9/07 at 6:42pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Bands still make videos?
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post #171 of 227
5/19/07 at 9:49pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Now the MVI (or, DVD-A, or whatever it is...) has been delayed another week to June 12.

I certainly hope this doesn't turn into the "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" fiasco.
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post #172 of 227
5/19/07 at 10:16pm

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Thx for the word, Brian. Where did you read/see this?

I read at QuadrophonicQuad.com that the new Linkin Park "DVD-Album" was something of a disappointment in that it was 24/48 stereo only. No DVD-A, no 5.1.

They're on the Warner label, a sister label to Atlantic. Here's hoping this is not a precursor for Rush disappointment.
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post #173 of 227
5/20/07 at 12:14pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

It was announced at Power Windows:

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/News.htm
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post #174 of 227
5/21/07 at 11:25am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
I read at QuadrophonicQuad.com that the new Linkin Park "DVD-Album" was something of a disappointment in that it was 24/48 stereo only. No DVD-A, no 5.1.

They're on the Warner label, a sister label to Atlantic. Here's hoping this is not a precursor for Rush disappointment.
From Rush.com:

What is an MVI disc?

MVI (Music Video Interactive) is a DVD-based product that plays in all DVD players, computers, and video game consoles with DVD drives. The MVI includes the full album in 96kHz/24 bit hi-resolution stereo audio and a 5.1 surround mix, plus bonus video and digital content. Although the MVI disc will not play in your CD player, the audio tracks are pre-encoded for easy transfer to your computer, portable music player, or recordable CD.

The Rush Snakes & Arrows MVI disc includes:

- The entire album in 96kHz/24 bit hi-resolution stereo

- The entire album in 5.1 surround sound

- Rush: The Game Of Snakes & Arrows -- a 45-minute video documentary on the making of the album, with unprecedented access to the band in the studio

- The ability to create your own mobile ringtones using UrTone technology

- Digital extras like wallpapers, buddy icons, a screensaver and more

- Plus deluxe packaging
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post #175 of 227
5/24/07 at 6:20am
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I'm not sure if anyone else has seen this, but last night at walmart I saw the MVI release for Linkin Park, which was to come out with the new Rush MVI dvd. The box for the Linkin Park disc said it was a cd/dvd package. That was something I hadn't heard at all about the rush package. It listed the "high-resolution" stereo track as 24/48. No surround was listed for it.

I bought the cd, so I'm not sure how I'll feel if my MVI disc shows up with a cd in it.
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post #176 of 227
5/24/07 at 6:51am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Magnuson
From Rush.com:

What is an MVI disc?

MVI (Music Video Interactive) is a DVD-based product that plays in all DVD players, computers, and video game consoles with DVD drives. The MVI includes the full album in 96kHz/24 bit hi-resolution stereo audio and a 5.1 surround mix, plus bonus video and digital content. Although the MVI disc will not play in your CD player, the audio tracks are pre-encoded for easy transfer to your computer, portable music player, or recordable CD.

The Rush Snakes & Arrows MVI disc includes:

- The entire album in 96kHz/24 bit hi-resolution stereo

- The entire album in 5.1 surround sound

- Rush: The Game Of Snakes & Arrows -- a 45-minute video documentary on the making of the album, with unprecedented access to the band in the studio

- The ability to create your own mobile ringtones using UrTone technology

- Digital extras like wallpapers, buddy icons, a screensaver and more

- Plus deluxe packaging
Based on the amount of content on the DVD, I now doubt this will have hi-res surround.
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post #177 of 227
5/24/07 at 7:49am
Thread Starter 

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

I agree, I never thought there would be high res surround. I had hoped I would be wrong, but they would have mentioned if that was the case. There are probably two reasons why they didn't do a high res surround track. 1. To keep the disc single layer. 2. The cost of royalties for using MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing).
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post #178 of 227
5/24/07 at 10:53am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
the "high-resolution" stereo track as 24/48
Here's a discussion - and actual experiments - involving some audio brainiacs , including some pro recording engineers (Barry Diament for one) about the real sonic advantages of a 24bit sample word vs. 16bit, and the more subtle advantages of a higher sampling frequency.
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post #179 of 227
5/31/07 at 7:38am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Amazon delays from 6/5 to 6/12 to now 6/26.

"I get this [bad] feeling . . ."
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post #180 of 227
5/31/07 at 9:33am

Re: Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.S
Amazon delays from 6/5 to 6/12 to now 6/26.

"I get this [bad] feeling . . ."
Yeah, we might get this when we get that Vapor Trails remaster.
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