Enterprise - Page 2

Re: Enterprise

The Ferengi were never called such in the show, and for all Archer knew they were simply a couple of odd looking greedy pirates.

Re: Enterprise

The reason The Borg were never a threat in TOS despite the fact that they were on ENT is because the events in "Regeneration" didn't happen until after the events in "First Contact", which didn't happen until after TOS. Chicken or the egg?

The justification for a lot of the so called continuity errors on Enterprise is that a lot of what happens is the result of timeline tampering from the future. The Xindi attack was never mentioned on Star Trek before because it didn't happen (the entire 3rd season takes place in a tampered timeline).

The events in all the other Trek shows; TOS, TAS, TNG, and DS9 are all un-tampered timlines, while the events in ENT are screwed up by the Temporal Cold War.

Re: Enterprise

Can any Star Trek fans recommend this series to me? The 20% off sale at Deepdiscount has me wanting to finish up my Trek collection. Please note:

I Like all other Trek series(even Voyager) quite a bit. I'm not buying this set to pick apart, or to find fault in the character development. I'll be perfectly happy if most of the series contains "stand alone" episodes, where the characters find a planet help the inhabitants, and move on. Your input is appreciated

Re: Enterprise

Year One is pretty decent; Berman & Braga seemed to recognize what the mistakes were in Voyager and taken pains to correct them in the new series.

Year Two is below average - they're falling back on the same bad habits.

Year Three is a complete disaster - they try to create a big story arc, but the whole thing is deeply, deeply stupid.

Year Four is the best Star Trek since the end of Deep Space Nine. Sure, there's only 19 episodes of it - the opening two-parter is tying up the previous mess and the finale was so ill-conceived that the cast was calling it appalling in interviews before the show was cold in its grave. But Paramount put Manny Coto in charge and he hired Gar & Judy Reeves-Stevens; the season was a series of tight arcs that happily pandered to the longtime Trekkie with an emphasis on TOS.

Re: Enterprise

Oh, goodness yes.

I need a minute...

Re: Enterprise

I disagree.....I thought that the Xindi story arc was quite entertaining. The storyline gave the crew more of a purpose to survive rather than just existing to piss off Vulcans every other episode in the previous two seasons. Come to think of it, this season comes across as a live action version of StarBlazers.....and I loved that show as a kid.

I do agree with your assessment of Season 4 though......Excellent Season overall, with the exception of that crappy finale. Berman & Braga need to be kept very far away from anything Star Trek permanently.

Re: Enterprise

Season 4 is outstanding (minus the finale, of which you may have read). I'd go so far as to say essential Star Trek viewing.

Hey, any word on price drops for the Enterprise sets? Seems like it's been long enough.

Re: Enterprise

That's too bad about season 4 being great and then the series gets cancelled. If it got that good, It would be better if it lasted 3 more!
I haven't heard about any price drops, but at Deepdiscount the price for the complete series is $254.05(after 20% off code) so that's why I'm interested in it!

Re: Enterprise

Thanks for your thoughts on Enterprise

Re: Enterprise

Yep, the final episode was a disaster all right. It was meant for everybody that complained about the series. Whoever you are, you really, really, screwed it u.

It is inconsistant between seasons because of complaints.
Unfortunately, B&B listened to them. Whatever kind of a 7 year plan they had, thanks to the complainers, we will never know.

You guys ruined it - so shut up!

Glenn

Re: Enterprise

Huh? The show simply wasn't very good in its first three years. Why should long time fans not complain?

And if Berman and Braga's "seven year plan" looked anything like the first three years of Enterprise or the seven years of Voyager, we didn't miss anything. Now, if you put Manny Coto in charge from day one...

Re: Enterprise

Unlikely. If it had been meant for us, Manny Coto would have written it.

Sam, Nelson, et al.,

[I decided to repost the last couple of my posts from the Xindi thread here.]

****************

We watched Storm Front (pts. 1 and 2) last night.  I found it to be another good episode, and thought that most of the characters were solid.  I particularly liked Vosk (Jack Gwaltney); I thought the way in which he delivered his lines was pleasing from an aesthetic point of view.

Seeing the P-51 Mustangs was a treat.  I also found the alternate timeline -- with Germany in control of much of the eastern part of the United States -- to be both compelling and a bit chilling.  The altered 'White House' was quite a sight, and John Fleck (Silik) is always a welcome addition to any episode of ENT. 

The secondary characters (Alicia Travers, Sal, and Carmine) were an interesting lot.  I thought Travers (Golden Brooks) brought a certain sincerity to her role that Archer bought into right from the start.  The loan-sharking of Sal and Carmine probably prepared them quite well to be tough, and they needed to be in order to aid in fighting the alliance between Vosk and the Germans.

I fell for the 'fake Trip' angle again, and only became suspicious when Phlox began taking some readings of him back in Sick Bay.  The reuniting of the crew with Archer was a nice touch, but the highlight of this two-parter five years ago and last night was the resetting of time.  I actually replayed that segment a few times to see each of the visual 'events' that were being shown more clearly as Daniels conveys that the TCW has ended.  Besides various dignitaries that I had missed acknowledging the first time around, I also saw whom I think was either Chopin or Liszt performing at the piano.  That was quite a surprise.  I'm guessing that someone has put together a list of all of the images that we see during the resetting of time.  I am going to look for that, as I am interested in learning what all of them are.  That was quite a fun segment.

****************

We watched Home last night.  It was a welcome respite from the almost non-stop action in several of the Xindi arc episodes, as well as the two-part Storm Front.

I love episodes that deal with Vulcan.  One of the treats for me (and it happens in very few Trek series) was hearing the Vulcan language spoken.

I am finding that I enjoy the relationship of T'Pol and Trip more so this time around than when it aired originally.  I recall that when Home first aired, a special treat was in store for fans of TOS -- that of having Jack Donner appear in the episode (he plays the Vulcan Priest).  We don't see all that many non-regular actors from TOS making appearances in subsequent Trek series.  Along with Arn Darvin (Charles Brill) and Galt (Joseph Ruskin, who played a Klingon elder in DS9, among other Trek roles), Jack Donner makes a guest appearance.  Fans of TOS will remember his role as Subcommander Tal in The Enterprise Incident.

Now it's on to the 'Augment' arc, beginning with Borderland tonight, followed by Cold Station 12 and The Augments either tonight or tomorrow.  The relationship between Malik and Persis is quite an interesting one, and one I'm looking forward to watching a bit more closely this time around.  (Side note: When I first heard that the title of the initial augment episode was Borderland, I remember thinking that this was also the name of an episode from the original The Outer Limits.)

****************

Last night, we decided to watch the three-part 'Augment' arc, and thoroughly enjoyed it.  I thought Borderland was very good, Cold Station 12 a bit better, and The Augments a fitting end to a very interesting and (at times) very emotional conclusion.  It was tough to stop in the middle of the arc, especially when Archer's life was in danger at the concluson of Cold Station 12.  I saw a great deal more character development and salient interactions among some of the Augments that I had not seen as clearly before.  The relationship between Malik and Persis was tenuous (especially given her prior relationship with Raakin).  But I thought both characters were excellent in their roles, and even entertained thoughts that these two could easily have started an 'Augment' revolution on their own in a future spinoff somewhere down the road.  Of course, that would have been a bit difficult after Persis is killed.  But the chemistry between the two, and of that between she and Arik, was a highlight of the arc for me.



The affection Arik Soong had for Persis was more obvious this time, and helps to explain why he was as surprised as he was when she ultimately sided with Malik and the others during The Augments.  One of the more telling moments for me came when she could scarcely look Soong in the eye when he uttered her name when asking if she was also in agreement with the Augments.  It was ever so subtle, but very well done.

On another note: I will be picking up the DVD release of the new film either this Thursday or Friday.  To celebrate today's DVD release, tonight we watched Space Seed, and then The Wrath of Khan (Director's Edition).  (The Director's Edition is always a pleasure to watch, as the additional footage often times lends a nice bit of backstory to some of the segments.)  I thought it would be fun and interesting to watch the first 'augments' after having seen the three-part arc from ENT.  It was also a treat for me, a forty or so year veteran of TOS, to watch the episodes and listen for the texts and concepts introduced in both Space Seed and The Wrath of Khan that appear in the Augment arc of ENT.  For example, Malik's discourse with Arik Soong regarding Khan's error; the "superior intellect breeds superior ambition" line (slightly altered in ENT); and Soong's presumption that the Botany Bay (mentioned by Malik) is not only unaccounted for, but is long gone.  A smile came to my face as I realized that they (Soong and Malik) had no idea that Khan and his other 70+ 'supermen' were actually in cryogenic freeze, awaiting to be awoken at some point in the future.

We will be watching The Forge tonight, unless my wife surprises me early and has purchased XI.

Edited by Ockeghem - 11/18/09 at 9:25am

Goodness, season four is such a great season. But I thought season three was amazing as well. On this Board, at least one knowledgeable poster puts the fourth season of ENT up there with any season of any Trek series.

I know I may sound like a broken record, but watching the show with all of the distractions in the corners of the screen, and having to have fabricated breaks (commercials) during the show is to me very annoying. But watching it on DVD is truly a remarkable experience. As much as I liked ENT when it first aired, I truly did not know just how good this series was at the time. And I attribute some of that to the format, but most of it to excellent writing and acting on the part of those involved.

I just began the Vulcan arc last night. I will write more on that later. But by way of introduction, the writing (and the wonderful backstory with regard to how it relates to Vulcans that we know and love) is excellent in many ways. Having over forty years of Trek history allows me to appreciate several connections and to enjoy some of the subtleties that are being meticulously presented in ENT. These are not necessarily made by those whom are unfamiliar with TOS, or by those whom have not watched the series as much as I have over the decades. And having watched Space Seed and The Wrath of Khan two nights ago, and then seeing two-thirds of the current ENT Vulcan arc last night, held a particular significance that was quite remarkable.

Edited by Ockeghem - 11/19/09 at 9:27am

Enterprise was great 1,2, 4 season. The 3rd season about the expanse was not very good. The 4th season was very good, because it links to the old series like T-Pau, augments (KHAN), etc. They should had main one movie with this crew, espeically around how the united federation of planets was formed. I have season 1 and 4 on dvd and will buy remainder of the season next year.

I haven't gotten up to the Vulcan arc in this viewing yet, but I think that three-parter is the highlight of the entire series. They really got it right, striking a good balance between using their characters and relating to events long-time fans would recognize from TOS (and even TNG, to a lesser extent). I credit not only Manny Coto, who was the show runner at this point, but the addition of Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens, who had written several well-received Trek books and were very knowledgeable about series canon. Lots of highlights in season 4, but none better than the Vulcan arc.

Part of the problem with the show not being appreciated in its time was UPN. The picture wasn't good, as you mention. I remember seeing a lot of grays and fuzz where there should be blacks in the picture (a product of high-def not translating well to standard TV). Add to that the usual on-screen bugs and the VERY LOUD commercials and the truly awful UPN promos for the next episode, and you have a host of reasons why anyone would be turned off. UPN was appealing to much different demographic than Enterprise was, so it just wasn't a good fit.

I also think the writing was on the wall before the fourth season aired. I think the plug was pulled on the show before season 4, and unless the show showed some extraordinary growth that year (something unexpected), it was not going to be renewed. You may remember, Trek fans came up with a pledge of $3 million to help produce a fifth season, but were turned down by Paramount. Just speculation here, but I also think Paramount wanted Rick Berman out, and if renewing the show meant renewing his contract, well...

 Actually, for me, my local UPN station broadcast a very nice standard def image. I didn't have any issues in that area. I live in a large TV market area, which may have been a reason(?) But I agree that UPN was aiming for a different demo then Star Trek is marketed to.

We had a good consistent market though. TNG, DS9, Voyager were all aired on the same UPN station and before it was UPN, it was the same channel for TNG and DS9, and even the same time slot. So Star trek never was bumped around.

As I understand it, UPN was going to pull the plug on Enterprise after the second year and the Xindi arc was B&B attempt to spice up the series for the third year. The fourth year was also in shaky ground and in danger of not happening, but a syndication deal was struck so they'd have the close to 100 episodes they needed to be able to sell Enterprise to syndication with the minimum episodes needed. So the 4th year was only done to meet that.

Ironic as it was the best year. 

Whoa, so what happened Scott, you are now moving the discussion on Enterprise here? Maybe I'll have to repost my recap here!

Nelson,

Yes, I figured it was more appropriate to put my posts having to do with the fourth season in this thread rather than in the Xindi thread. 

Sam,

I am in complete agreement with your assessment of the Vulcan arc.  Somewhat coincidentally, I watched TWOK for the Eugenics material, but found that it too fits nicely into the ENT Vulcan arc mix.  (I watched Space Seed first, and then TWOK.)  The segment about the katra at the end of II was also quite relevant in light of what occurs in the ENT Vulcan arc.  It ties in nicely with TOS, TAS (this long-time viewer loved the several references to the Selat) and TNG (and the aforementioned film, as well as III somewhat).

I found The Forge, Awakening, and Kir'Shara to be very solid.  T'Pol's mother (T'Les) was introduced in Home, which in retrospect gave her more of a dimension when we see her camping with the Syrannites.  I liked how the writers had us believing that it was the Syrannites who were in the wrong.  Given what I know canonically of T'Pau, including what I know of regarding what she was to become, I was asking myself, "T'Pau is a Syrranite?  How can this be?"  I was having difficulty reconciling this possibility with what Kirk says about her in Amok Time: "Bones ... He's my first officer, my friend.  I disregarded Starfleet orders to bring him here.  Another thing, that's ... T'Pau ... a Vulcan -- all of Vulcan in one package.  How can I back out in front of her?"  But as the High Command (and esp. V'Las) began to do some very unusual things, and T'Pau voiced repeatedly how lies had been perpetuated, I began to see the twist that was occurring --- and who it was who was actually in the right.

I found the death of Admiral Forrest to be a nice touch, as much as I don't like seeing secondary characters get killed off in series.  But it does have the impact of driving a story forward, however much I may not like it.

I thought the writing for Soval -- and Graham's acting -- was superb.  He went from this semi-despised character from the first two seasons to someone that we felt quite a bit of compassion for (esp. during the torture scene).  Given the improvement of the relationship between Shran and Archer over the past couple of years, I found that scene to be unnecessary.  Shran IMO should have believed Soval; however, I suppose the Andorian - Vulcan conflict had raised the level of mistrust to new levels.  Too bad Archer wasn't there to appease the situation.  (Side note: I was thinking how interesting it would have been had T'Pol been in command when Shran first appeared on the viewscreen.  For Shran, it was bad enough he had to talk to Soval.  Thankfully, Shran had a little bit of respect for Cmmdr. Tucker, er, 'pink skin,' in that situation.)

I found T'Pau to be perfectly cast in her role.  She conveyed just enough wisdom (without being condescending in any way), and knew when not to engage too much those with whom she was having a discussion.  For example, I appreciated how she didn't interfere with Archer and T'Pol's disagreement over how the situation (and looking for the Kir'Shara) was being handled overall.  She gave them both breathing room on two or three occasions, and they needed it.  I found there to be a good balance between how she was being portrayed in ENT (what she was now) with how she was portrayed in TOS (what she was to become later).  The dialogue between Kirk and Bones is quite telling with regard to her importance: "T'Pau ... the only person to ever turn down a seat ... on the Federation Council.  T'Pau? Officiating at Spock's wedding?  He never mentioned that his family was this important."  And because of T'Pau's having intervened, Kirk isn't disciplined for having disobeyed a direct order from Admiral Komack.  To say she had pull with the Federation would be an understatment.

Another wonderful segment occurred when T'Pau and T'Pol are discussing the death of the latter's mother.  When T'Pol reveals that she has Pa'nar Syndrome, we learn from T'Pau that another lie has been perpetuated, and that an accomplished melder can cure the syndrome.  I found that bit of writing to be ingenious.  In my mind, there weren't too many Vulcans who could have done what they were able to do to T'Pol in that situation.  And the writers got it right -- bigtime.

When we finally see the fall of the Vulcan High Command, and T'Pau mentions that Archer et al. may be seeing some of the new Vulcan way and the transforming of the Vulcan society that would eventually return to the true teachings of Surak, I got chills -- again as a result of forty years of history being conveyed successfully in a prequel.  That's one of the great things about Trek for me -- the way it can move you to those kinds of emotions.  (Kind of ironic, if you think about this particular example -- LOL.)  A super arc all the way around.

We also watched Daedalus last night.  I will write more on that another time.  My wife and son are out shopping today, and I know what they're planning to bring home tonight -- Star Trek XI.  I will be taking a slight break from ENT to enjoy that film a couple of times over the weekend. :)

Edited by Ockeghem - 11/20/09 at 8:18am

Hey Scott-

I wanted to start a thread to discuss Star Trek XI. There is a thread in the Movies section already from when it first premiered. Or I could start a new one there, post Blu ray/DVD release. 

I have not watched the Blu Ray yet, I will sit and enjoy it this weekend. I got it Tuesday and I did have a look at some of the special features. But somethings in there made me angry. Inspite of how much I know that JJ Abrams and crew held great respect for TOS, some things bugged me about this movie. I speak of minor issues they made me angry, but there is the entire basic premise of the film that irks me. Perhaps my point of view will change after I see it again. So I look forward to debating it with you and the members! 

Let me know if you think that makes sense to use the existing thread, or a new one and where, the Blu Ray section or Movies sections.

In regards to what you thought of the Vulcan arc, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. I appreciated the degree to which the writers pulled everything back to TOS and explained how the the Vulcans started the series the way they were and how we see them in TOS. I don't know if Berman and Braga planned that change to occur during the run of the series and had Romulans as part of the scheme or it was Manny Coto's doing, but it was a terrific run of episodes.

I thought Daedalus was a let down after that! But Babel quickly returns to form! 

Nelson,

I recall writing something about XI in some thread -- but I can't recall which one it was now.  I think it makes sense to have a different thread for a discussion of XI.

As for Daedalus, I probably should not have watched it last night.  The Vulcan arc was so good, that anything after that would have either been a letdown or at the very least, I would not have been able to give it my full attention.  I was still too busy digesting what I had seen in the previous three episodes.

Yes, seeing the Romulan at the end of Kir'Shara was quite a surprise.  When I first heard the voice, I thought it was ... 'Future Guy'!

 Scott-

Yes, I thought that Romulan guy was pretty creepy! And I had a sense they planned to have him and V'Las back in future episodes and it might be the origins of the re-unification movement we see in TNG. But of course, in a more benevolent manner.

Ahh, now I want to watch Balance of Terror. One of my favorite episdoes.

Okay, I'll ponder which section, Hi Def or Movies, to start a new Star Trek XI discussion thread.

Nelson,

I think I will probably watch Daedalus again next week, and then move on to the remaining two episodes on Disc Three (Observer Effect and Babel One).  I think I need to give Daedalus a fairer shake this time around. :)

i picked up the 2nd season yesteray from Future Shop under $50.00 (Cdn). I am happy that i have 1,2, 4 season. I probably wait for the 3rd season, because i was not a big fan of season 3. The whole season in the expanse just did not do it for me. However, 1,2 and 4 seasons are very good.

I have on dvd now The Invaders, V The Series, Star Trek Original Series, Enterprise (1,2,4), Space 1999, Time Tunnel, etc. I like to see Logan's Run released along with a few other shows. I guess time will tell what happens over the next few years.

Younger1968,

Congratulations on picking up the second season. That one IMO has some gems in it. Although I like most everything about ENT, some of my personal favorites are Carbon Creek, Minefield, Marauders, Singularity, Dawn, Future Tense (the Tholians have been my favorite species for over thirty or so years), Horizon, Cogenitor, Regeneration, and First Flight.

"I probably wait for the 3rd season, because I was not a big fan of season 3. The whole season in the expanse just did not do it for me."

Excuse me?  You'll be picking up the third season. That's an order. ;)

Watched Storm Front I & II and Home over the last few days. I thought Storm Front was fun; as Indiana Jones once quipped, the Nazis are the best bad guys ever. And having them take over Brooklyn? Oh no you didn't. However, I thought the ending was much too abrupt for closing out the temporal cold war storyline. While I was never a huge fan of that plotline, this felt rushed; a way of saying "we need to move on, so we're closing this out." It might have been more effective to tie it into the Xindi arc; have Vosk's race be somehow related. Instead, we see a never-before-seen race that is apparently integral to the TCW with no further explanation. The abruptness of Daniels' telling Archer "that's it, the TCW is ending because of what you did" reminded me of an episode of the Simpsons that parodied Lord of the Flies. The children of Springfield are stranded are on this island, creating their own civilization. The episode ends with a voice over by James Earl Jones that says "... and the children were eventually rescued... by, let's say... Moe." The end.

Still, Storm Front has some great moments, including Archer and Trip's reunion, Steven Schrippa (sp?) and some very impressive CGI of the Enterprise over NYC of the 1940s.

But, as it was when I first watched these episodes, it is Home that really begins the fourth season in earnest. With the Xindi and TCW arcs finally wrapped up, we are treated to a rare episode that lets everyone take a breather, much like TNG's "Family" after the Borg two-parter. (Family is one of the best hours of Trek ever.) Phlox dealing with racism on earth is a nice way to bookend the season, as it ends with these prejudices posing a threat to the formation of the federation. Archer's story is handled nicely. Of course there is no rest for the captain who has to explain himself to a board of inquiry. It makes sense that Archer would be cynical of Starfleet's mission, having spent the last year in constant combat and danger. It was nice that he was able to resurrect his sense of exploration. He also likely needed companionship. And the photography of his rock-climbing expedition was gorgeous. Also liked T'Pol and Trip's visit to Vulcan and the less-than-satisfying ending. I saw Amok Time a few weeks ago and the Vulcans have to straighten out this marriage thing; it's a mess!

Sam,

Nice thoughts on those episodes.  I thought Home provided a much-needed respite from the action of the previous several episodes.

I don't know this for certain, but perhaps some of the abruptness of which you speak -- and maybe some of the disconnects as well? -- are due to the series nearly being cancelled at the concusion of the third season.

Over the weekend, sandwiched between viewings of XI, we watched Observer Effect and Babel One. I'd seen the concept of Observer Effect in other Trek series, so that one was not new to me. I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed Babel One again. Seeing the Andorians, Tellarites, and Romulans in one and the same episode sure was fun. After the conclusion of the Andorian - Tellarite conflict, it will be on to the Aenar arc.

Weren't the Organians the beings in Observer Effect? Same beings from Errand of Mercy?

Yes Sam, the beings were Organians. It was one of my favorite stand alone episodes of that year.

While it does seem to not be canonical, it didn't really contradict anything in Errand of Mercy. Ayelborne does say, "beings such as yourselves" referring to humans and Klingons, so they were familiar with them. The Observer Effect beings did comment that they've seen Klingons react to the situation they set-up on the planet.