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DVD audio question

post #1 of 24
1/8/07 at 1:41pm
Thread Starter 
Hi, I'm new to the forum and am trying to wrap my brain around how this DVD-audio thing works.

It all started with the "Love" by The Beatles DVD-audio that I bought a couple weeks ago. Included was a regular CD and the DVD-audio disc. I played it on a Bose Lifestyle surround sound system that I bought about 4 years ago. The CD sounded great, but the DVD-audio sounded amazing, even hearing with just 5.1 or whatever it's called that I'm listening to on this system! And I understand after doing a little research that the DVD-audio would sound much better using a DVD audio player that could truly reproduce the sound that is on the disc.

So now my question: How do connect or what type of player do all of you recommend? I hate to get rid of the Bose since I've only had it a short time and it sounds great for movies and even regular CD's (at least it did until I found out about this). My thought is maybe a Denon DVD-audio player that is about $350 on amazon and connecting it to the optical input on the Bose and running it through the Bose system. Would that even work? Would I lose something in the sound doing it that way? Or am I completely on the wrong track here?
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post #2 of 24
1/8/07 at 2:24pm

Re: DVD audio question

For $350 you could purchase a used Denon DVD-2910 off Videogon or Audiogon. This is an exceptional DVD Player, with excellent DVD-Audio and SACD playback. In fact I would recommend using the analog outputs on this player as opposed to the digial outputs, as the DAC's in the Denon are superior to those in your receiver.
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post #3 of 24
1/8/07 at 3:05pm

Re: DVD audio question

Quote:
In fact I would recommend using the analog outputs on this player as opposed to the digial outputs, as the DAC's in the Denon are superior to those in your receiver.

You MUST use the 6 analog outputs, to listen to the high resolution 5.1 surround tracks, of a dvd-a disc, unless you have the very high end Denon receiver to go along with the Denon player, and use it's Denon link setup.
The high resolution tracks don't play over digital coax or optical outputs. If you listen through them, you're hearing Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 tracks. If the Bose doesn't have the 5.1 analog inputs, on the back, you won't be able to listen to the high resolution tracks of the dvd-a............

These are very nice players too. http://www.oppodigital.com/
The DV-970 HD and the DV-981 HD players are capable of playing dvd-a and sacd discs, along with upscaling your dvd movies, for HDTVs. Everyone raves about the great quality of these players.
Good luck with whatever you decide on!
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post #4 of 24
1/8/07 at 3:25pm
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD audio question

This is the type of Bose system I have. Mine is an older model, but I think the inputs and outputs are basically the same.

Ack! It won't let me post the url until I have 10 posts. But it's the Bose Lifestyle 35. Mine is a second generation, but I think the new ones have the same basic inputs.

But it looks like I don't have the right outputs. Or am I just misunderstanding what the specs say?

I'm going over to look at the other system you recommended. Thank you for the prompt replies.
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post #5 of 24
1/8/07 at 3:42pm

Re: DVD audio question

I looked up the owner's manual and while you can enjoy the DTS and DD 5.1, you are SOL for DVD-A (and SACD).
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post #6 of 24
1/8/07 at 8:22pm
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD audio question

What do you think of the Denon DVD-1930CI? This seems like it would do pretty much what I want it to do? Are there big advantages in sound in the 2910? or the Oppo recommended by Ed?

And if I were to replace the receiver and speakers, what is the least I could spend and still get sensational sound?

Maybe I'm going overboard for the sake of listening to a limited number of DVD audio titles that are available and that I like. I was perfectly happy listening to a regular CD in surround before I heard the DVD audo version which isn't even playing at full capacity. Now I can't wait to hear what the possibilities are. I guess I should find a store that has one hooked up. (not easy, most people have never heard of them).

Does anyone here have one at home? Is it worth the money?
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post #7 of 24
1/8/07 at 8:34pm

Re: DVD audio question

Between the Denon DVD-1930CI and the Oppo 981 I would choose the Oppo without hesitation. But overall, the Denon DVD-2910 is certainly a step up in audio quality.

Typically speaking, between replacing receiver and speakers, the speakers will make the biggest difference by far. That being said, the Bose Lifestyle 35 uses proprietary cabling to connect the Acoustimass module and speakers. Therefore, if you are looking for an upgrade you will need to replace the full system including speakers.

Bose speakers are not well received on this forum, so you may want to count your loses and start fresh if you are looking for an upgrade.
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post #8 of 24
1/8/07 at 8:39pm
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD audio question

I'm thinking about doing that, Alon. I could use the Bose system in another room.

Any suggestions for speakers and receiver? Does the receiver make that much difference other than the watts per channel? Or is it mostly just other bells and whistles that you're paying for?
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post #9 of 24
1/8/07 at 9:11pm

Re: DVD audio question

Like anything, it depends! On the vast majority of receivers you can ignore the wattage ratings, these are heavily inflated, and for the most part receivers will not output the magical 100 watts per channel when all channels are driven (often closer to 45-50 watts per channel).

In any case, a few questions to get you started:

1. What are the dimensions of the room?
2. Do you have a preference towards loudspeakers, bookshelf speakers, satellite speakers, in-wall speakers?
3. Are you looking to build a 5.1 system or 7.1 system?
4. Is the system primarily for music or movies? What percentage of each?
6. What is your budget for speakers, subwoofer and receiver?

Also, what components will you be connecting now and in the future? Do you have any plans to purchase HD DVD or Blu-Ray? What TV do you own?
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post #10 of 24
1/9/07 at 7:04am

Re: DVD audio question

MountainLady............
http://www.crutchfield.com
Look over that site, and read up on the features, of the different brands. As Alon said, don't pay too much attention to the watts per channel (wpc), although you don't need to totally ignore them either. If you see something you like, I'd see if you find it cheaper, somewhere else. Crutchfield isn't the cheapest place to buy anything.

For speakers, there are quite a few good brands, ranging from several hundred dollars, to several thousand dollars. Polk, Paradigm, Boston Acoustics, B&W, Klipsch, and my favorite.........Allison http://www.allisonacoustics.com
These are also very good speakers: http://www.svsound.com/
These folks (SVS), make some of the best subwoofers, you can buy anywhere.
Good luck, and enjoy looking.
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post #11 of 24
1/9/07 at 8:44am
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD audio question

1[ Alon, the room is about 20 x 40 ft. (It's a kitchen and familyroom combined.)
The rear speakers are set back about 25 feet the way I have it set up now.

2. Satellite speakers would be the first choice. Could go larger for the front speakers, but not really for the rear. The acoustics aren't great with lots of windows and french door on one side and open doorways on the other.

3. For the DVD audio I need 7.1, right?

4. Both movies and music. Movies on the weekends. Much of the time I listen to music through the iPod connected to the system and have many regular CD's. I only have 2 DVD-audio discs and who knows how many more they will come out with?

5. $1,500 maybe? Or as little as possible and still get great sound.

This DVD-audio thing has become an obsession in the last couple weeks. It just sounds so amazing, even on the Bose which won't play all the tracks. Maybe I'm going overboard in wanting to play these DVD-audio discs. If the technology dies out and goes to something different I'll probably be stuck with a dozen or so discs and a lot of equipment I don't need.
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post #12 of 24
1/9/07 at 9:04am

Re: DVD audio question

That's quite a large room for satellite speakers, I may suggest bookshelf speakers. In any case, you can find some very good 5.1 systems within your budget from SVS and HSU. Combine these with a Pioneer 1016 receiver and you're all set to go.
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post #13 of 24
1/9/07 at 9:51am

Re: DVD audio question

Quote:
3. For the DVD audio I need 7.1, right?
No. A 5.1 system is all you need. But of course, a 7.1 system is nice, if you have room for one.............
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post #14 of 24
1/9/07 at 10:01am
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD audio question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
No. A 5.1 system is all you need. But of course, a 7.1 system is nice, if you have room for one.............

Hmmm, I might have to dangle some back speakers from the ceiling.
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post #15 of 24
1/9/07 at 2:24pm
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD audio question

Then again, there's the question of whether this technology will survive or be replaced by something altogether different. Although these players will play DVD-A as well as SACD, suppose they come up with something else? After all, this stuff has been around since at least 2000 and hasn't really taken off. I had never even heard of it before going to buy that CD.

But I'm just obsessed with wanting to hear that DVD-A by the Beatles the way it was meant to be heard. Even with the system I have, some of the songs bring tears to my eyes.
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post #16 of 24
1/9/07 at 3:00pm

Re: DVD audio question

DVD-A and SACD are barely hanging on at best, but there are a few new releases occasionally. DualDisc was supposed to help but mp3 has been very harmful to the success of hi-res. There are a few threads in the music forum that will also bring tears to your eye's, for other reasons. I bought a Yamaha 6770 uni player a couple of years ago and now have around 50 mostly DVD-A's and a few SACD's. Even if I never buy another disc I'll be able to enjoy what I have for years to come so I consider the money well spent. Check the music forum for recommendations of other discs such as The Beach Boys-Pet Sounds DVD-A and Dire Straights-Brothers In Arms DualDisc. It's not to late to enjoy what's already out there.
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post #17 of 24
1/9/07 at 3:16pm

Re: DVD audio question

If you like Pink Floyd, you've gotta hear the sacd of Dark Side Of The Moon! It is amazing. It is like hearing that album for the first time.............again! This sacd set the standard, for all multi-channel music!

The multi-channel music didn't do well, because of mp3 music (as gene c said), and the marketing for it was terrible. Plus, the average person isn't going out to buy the special players, that music takes. The average person isn't even buying surround sound systems. That's why most dvd players ship from the factory, with the DTS turned off.
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post #18 of 24
1/9/07 at 4:39pm

Re: DVD audio question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alon Goldberg
Between the Denon DVD-1930CI and the Oppo 981 I would choose the Oppo without hesitation. But overall, the Denon DVD-2910 is certainly a step up in audio quality.

I should also note that according to Oppo the 970 sounds better than the 981. Yes it is the older unit but I have it and it sounds quite good. I can personally comment on how it stacks up against the 981 or the Denon.
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post #19 of 24
1/9/07 at 8:29pm
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD audio question

gene, you have a point about enjoying the discs you have even if the technology eventually dies out. But it would be nice if it didn't.

I agree about mp3 being a big factor. I'm a huge fan of mp3 for different reasons. For much popular music it's great to dl or buy music on iTunes, transfer it to my iPod and take it with me or just connect the iPod to the surround system and listen to hours and hours of playlists that I can add to, change or rearrange. And they all sound good compared to vinyl records of days gone by. And it's perfectly adequate for most popular music.

The thing that makes me excited about the DVD-A is listening to music with a lot of instruments, like the Beatle Love DVD or to classical music with a whole orchestra behind it. Imagine hearing Beethoven's 9th Symphony or Saint Saens 3rd with DVD-A. It would be like sitting in the middle of a concert hall. I'm thinking things with "big" sounds, even a big band in a large hall.

Any other suggestions of DVD-A discs that you guys own?
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post #20 of 24
1/9/07 at 9:18pm

Re: DVD audio question

At the risk of getting my hand slapped for discussing software in the audio/video forum: Donald Fagin-Porcupine Tree-The Eagles-Jeff Beck, and so many more. Do a search/start a thread in the Music forum. And DTS cd's, also in 5.1, sound great too. And concert dvd's. Most are also in 5.1 but not DVD-A of course.
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post #21 of 24
1/9/07 at 10:06pm
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD audio question

Ahhh, I didn't notice there was a music section as well. Looks like several people agree about the Beatles "Love" DVD.

A SACD disc would also play in 5.1 on the Bose system, like the DVD-A does? There seem to be more titles available.
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post #22 of 24
1/9/07 at 10:31pm

Re: DVD audio question

Fraid not. SACD's don't have DD or DTS layers so 5.1 SACD's must be played on an SACD player. SACD's come in a few different versions. The early ones were 2 ch SACD only. Then came 5.1 to compete with DVD-A. Then a "Hybrid" SACD with a cd layer (2 ch) was added for backwards compatability with cd players. An SACD disc could have one, two or all three options on it. It's very important to study the back of the jewel case to see exactly what you're getting. This is also true for DVD-A. Not all are hi-res 5.1. Some are two ch only. The Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" can be played 5 different ways. Panasonic also marketed a couple of two ch DVD-A dvd players when they first came out. On the other hand, my "School Boys In Disgrace" SACD by The Kinks is listed as 5.1 on the back but is stereo only. This is another reason these two formats didn't do as well as we had hoped. To confusing.
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post #23 of 24
1/9/07 at 10:35pm
Thread Starter 

Re: DVD audio question

You're right about that, gene. Too confusing and too few titles out there. Seems like if somebody wanted to create something and then discourage people from buying it, this is a prime example. Their marketing departments should be fired!
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post #24 of 24
1/9/07 at 10:40pm

Re: DVD audio question

I don't think their marketing depts were even invited to any of the meetings!
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