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Track the Films You Watch (2007) - Page 5

post #121 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

I've heard Lover Come Back is better - given the above comments, should I bother?
Lover Come Back is nowhere near as good IMO, but I love Pillow Talk. If you didn't, then I'd probably say no, don't bother.
post #122 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

The Maltese Falcon 1931

It's hard to judge this fairly. I actually think this is a pretty decent film, but it suffers terribly by comparison to the 41 remake. It's not in that league by a long shot, but if the 41 film had never been made, I think this would be a little known, but well thought of film.
post #123 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

The Green Mile

Rewatched this modern classic.
post #124 of 2529
Thread Starter 

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

01/09/07

That's Black Entertainment: Westerns (2002)

Somewhat entertaining documentary that takes a look at the early, all black cast westerns, which were made from the 1920s-50s. Most of the interesting films they talk about are sadly lost so we don't get to see any clips and the documentary is full of stories we've already heard regarding the racism of the times and why black producer's had to make their own films. I wish more detail had gone into how production got started on these films instead of the same stories being told.

Bronze Buckaroo, The (1939)

Interesting, if not too original, all black cast western has a gang of cowboys showing up to visit a friend when they learn he's disappeared. After some investigating it turns out that he's been kidnapped by a crazy man (Spencer Williams) and his gang who want him to sign over his property. The story isn't too original but I was surprised to see how well written some of this film is. There's quite a bit of comic relief that works very well and gets several laughs including a joke involving a talking mule and there's some card shark stuff that comes off very good. Performances range from good to poor with Williams coming off the best. This is nothing great but it's interesting nonetheless. Also included is some great music.

01/10/07

Lying Lips (1939)

Rather bizarre murder mystery from director Oscar Micheaux who's best remembered for Within Our Gates. An innocent woman (Edna Mae Harris) is sent to prison for murdering her aunt while her best friend and a Detective (Robert Earl Jones) try to find the real killers. This was my third film by the director but the first sound feature. His direction is pretty good throughout but you really have to question his screenplay, which starts off rather silly and just gets stranger from there. The case is eventually cracked when the Detective takes one man to a haunted house so that a ghost will scare the truth out of him. The performances are all pretty bad and yes, that Robert Earl Jones is the father of James Earl Jones.

Olympus (1997)

Yet another Joe D'Amato adult film.

01/11/07

Ship That Died, The (1938)

Interesting and mildly amusing short film from director Jacques Tourneur about the mystery surrounding the Mary Celeste, which was a ship found in 1872 without a trace of its crew. Hammer's film The Phantom Ship did a better job at showing one possibility of what might have happened but this film is pretty good. It shows two different things that might have happened to the crew but the too cheerful narration doesn't help the subject matter.

Hard to Handle (1986)

Bob Dylan, backed by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers during their Australian tour. Highlights include the rousing acoustic versions of Girl From the North Country and It's Alright Ma as well as rocking versions of Like a Rolling Stone. Other highlights include the highly underrated I'll Remember You and Lenny Bruce. I wish Columbia would give this an official release here and include a full 2 1/2 hour show (instead of the 1 hour here).

From Hell It Came (1957)

Incredibly silly horror film about a tribal prince who is executed for a crime he didn't commit and stuff inside a tree trunk. A few days later the tree trunk returns to life to seek vengeance. The tree monster looks incredibly stupid and gets more laughs than anything but on the whole this is a deadly boring film. The monster doesn't show up until the forty-five minute mark and the human characters are all boring and dull.
post #125 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by george kaplan
The Maltese Falcon 1931

It's hard to judge this fairly. I actually think this is a pretty decent film, but it suffers terribly by comparison to the 41 remake. It's not in that league by a long shot, but if the 41 film had never been made, I think this would be a little known, but well thought of film.


I haven't posted much lately but this is just too irresistible! George and I have watched the very same movie on the very same day and came to the very same conclusion!!

Incidentally, an even better example of a similarly good original which was unjustly overshadowed by a stupendous remake is the 1931 version of THE FRONT PAGE which, of course, is nowadays hardly ever shown (or, for that matter, remembered) because of Howard Hawks' 1940 version, HIS GIRL FRIDAY.
post #126 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)



Did you also notice how much Sam Spade sounded like Burt Lancaster?
post #127 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

I just bought us tickets to see Letters from Iwo Jima Saturday night. Its only playing in one theater here in Chicago. I'm excited.
post #128 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by george kaplan


Did you also notice how much Sam Spade sounded like Burt Lancaster?

...and looked like Kevin Spacey!

Actually, at first I wasn't so taken with Ricardo Cortez's characterization of Spade as he was depicted as being way too much of a ladies' man (that's a Pre-Code side-effect, I guess) but I gradually warmed up to him and to his co-stars which, although undeniably inferior to Huston's 1941 rogues' gallery, were clearly all very adept in their roles. I was most impressed with Bebe Daniels (in the role later played by Mary Astor) and the "Fat Man", Dudley Digges and my only complaint is that Dwight Frye did not have more screen time as Wilmer.

I notice from the William Dieterle poll that you haven't watched SATAN MET A LADY (1936) which, despite being way too screwy and over-the-top in the humor department, I actually enjoyed quite a bit. Unsurpririsngly (knowing her tense situation with Warner Brothers at the time), only Bette Davis seems like a fish out of water and clearly wishes she was elsewhere.
post #129 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

There were some things I liked in the '31 Maltese Falcon, definitely the naughty pre-code scenes with Daniels, but overall, it was too static and talky for me. But Satan Met a Lady...yikes. I really thought that one was disastrously bad.

Another largely unknown earlier version of a script with much more famous remakes that I'd like to see is The Last Turn, a French movie from '39, which was the first film adaptation of The Postman Always Rings Twice. It even predated Visconti's Ossessione, which in turn predated the famous MGM version from '46. Michel Simon played the ill-fated older husband in The Last Turn.
post #130 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Monster House (marginal)

Saw this in theaters and originally gave it . Saw the DVD for only $6.99 during the Christmas sales and picked it up anyway. Watched it a second time and liked it better; enough to flip the thumb. I think the plot just seems too OTT. There is some very, VERY deep LFE on this disc, too.

Ladies in Lavender

Maggie Smith and Judy Dench as aged sisters living together on the coast of Cornwall, England, between the two World Wars. One day a young man (Daniel Bruhl) washes up on the shoreline, apparently a victim of a shipwreck, and the sisters take him into their home to care for him as he rehabilitates a broken ankle.

Smith's Janet takes the expected maternal tone while Dench's Ursula, a lifelong spinster, experiences romantic longings despite their nearly 50-year difference in age. A very touching story with great dramatic and humorous touches by two great actresses who are still at the top of their game. Also includes great supporting turn by Miriam Margolyes. Directed by Charles Dance.
post #131 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Holiday Inn

Great musical, marred slightly by the blackface, which is a sad remnant of the times it was made, but it's hard to see anything mean-spirited in a song celebrating Lincoln's freeing the slaves.
post #132 of 2529
Thread Starter 

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Quote:
marred slightly by the blackface, which is a sad remnant of the times it was made, but it's hard to see anything mean-spirited in a song celebrating Lincoln's freeing the slaves.

I think it's hard to see anything mean-spirited because we're white.

Over the past month I've been watching several black cinema films, watching several documentaries and I'm currently reading a few books on black cinema from 1915-1940 and my views of these films have certainly changed. Everyone knows my stance on a certain film and I've often said that these are only movies and they can't hurt anyone but my thoughts have certainly changed. I still don't agree it's right to hide these films from public viewing though.

I'll probably post more on this after I finish my books and watch more of the films.


01/12/07

Land Without Bread (1933)

Disappointing Luis Bunuel documentary about a remote village in Spain where civilization has hardly moved. Bunuel, in my opinion, makes the mistake of trying to be surrealistic when the film didn't need any of that. I found everything on screen was just overproduced and it really didn't mix well with the narration. For whatever the reason, I didn't care about what I was seeing and I didn't care about what I was listening to.

Movies of Color: Black Southern Cinema (2003)

Entertaining documentary that takes a look at early black cinema with filmmakers such as Oscar Micheaux, Spencer Williams and a debate of the merits of The Birth of a Nation. The documentary does a very good job at talking about these early black films but I think we could have done without another debate of the Griffith film even though it's very fair and balanced. The most interesting aspects deal with Micheaux and Williams but I wish the documentary had dug a little deeper into their careers since very little is known about the men.

December 7th, 1941 (1943)

John Ford's highly entertaining recreation of Pearl Harbor and the events after it certainly deserved the Academy Award win it received for Best Documentary Short. The film mixes recreated scenes very well with actual footage and I'd go as far to say that the battle scenes (done with models) are among the best from any war film of the period. The version I watched was the original, 34-minute theatrical version.

Red Room (1999)

Extremely brutal and sometimes revolting Japanese horror film, which has gained a huge cult following over the years due to countless bootlegs but it finally got an official release here this week. The film is a cruel look at reality game shows and what limits people will go to in order to win the prize. In the case here the prize is ten-million yen and the object of the game is to be the last person standing. Four people play and all four draw cards. The one who draws the King must pick two others to torture each other. The game is over when three people quit or are dead. The "torture" starts out easy with two women kissing but as the film goes on each round gets more and more violent. There are two death scenes that will go down in horror history as some of the toughest to watch. I'm usually against these Japanese horror films that go for all torture but this one here actually has a pretty interesting story mixed in with the violence and there's actually several interesting plot twists. The film is hard to watch at times but the 68-minute running time goes by quickly. Original title: Akai misshitsu (heya): Kindan no ôsama geemu.
post #133 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

The Hitcher (1986)

My girlfriend was intrigued by the upcoming remake so I pulled this one out a few nights ago insisting she see it before the new version. It's a great movie, as far as I'm concerned. Sure it asks you to swallow a lot of unbelivable moments, but it's well fashioned and suspenseful enough that it matters very little. Plus, it's hard to imagine Sean Bean rivaling Rutger Hauer for sheer creepiness.


Dolls (1987)

This one is lots of fun. Guy Rolfe is fun to watch as a mysterious toymaker, his creations are charming and there's a strange/sweet message througout about never letting your inner child die. Probably why I've always been fond of this one.

10 to Midnight (1983)

One of my favorite movies growing up, I've never understood the flak this has gotten. For my money this is a great mixture of a tough-guy Charles Bronson vehicle and an 80s slasher film. Gene Davis is great as the killer and the lengths that Bronson goes to to stop him are a blast. The ending to this one is a classic! Also, whatever happened to Lisa Elibacher, she was a cutie!

I Confess (1953)

Solid little Hitchcock mystery features an excellent performance by Montgomery Clift and an engaging climax. Not one of my favorites from the director, but I hadn't seen this one before and I thouroughly enjoyed the watch.
post #134 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

RV (neutral)

Robin Williams as a stressed out corporate flunky who takes his family on a vacation to Colorado in an RV rather than the planned Hawaiian vacation in order to try and bring his family closer together as well as save his job. A first time experience for the whole family, they don't adapt particularly well and a few moments of hilarity ensue. But not enough to warrant a full

Citizen Kane

First time viewing what many consider the greatest film of all time. While it was a good film, I'm still not particularly sure why it has been anointed such. I've seen many other films that seemed to have a much more engaging plot and emotional center. Great cinematography and sets, but rather plodding story and somewhat uneven acting. Thanks to the comic strip "Peanuts," I've known for years what "Rosebud" signified without seeing the film. I don't know if that had any effect on my enjoyment or not.
post #135 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

01/09/07
Sahara (2005) - 1/2
Fun little movie with Matthew M. and Steve Zahn. Nothing spectacular as far as the acting or directing goes, but it was worth the time it took to watch it.

Sky High (2005) -
This was just great. Light hearted and very fun. The ending was obvious from a mile away, but it was a great ride getting there.

01/10/07
Internal Affairs (1990) -
Pretty intense. Some great acting from the leads (Gere and Garcia). Good story and acting, can't beat that.

Fun With Dick and Jane (2005) - 1/4
Better than I expected. Jim Carrey is always good for a few physical laughs, and Alec Baldwin was great, as usual.

Date Movie (2006) - 1/4
Bleh. The only thing that saved it is how damn cute Allyson Hannigan is.

01/12/07
Alpha Dog (2007) - 1/2
Gritty, intense, smart. Based on a true story. Features two of my favorite actors (Hirsch and Marquette), and Justin Timberlake actually wasn't out of place, which wasn't really a surprise, given how well he's done on SNL.

16 Blocks (2006) - 3/4
Decent enough. Cliched story, but had a few little twists to keep it fresh. Mos Def was great.

On tap for tonight: Firewall, Basilisk: The Serpent King and Grendel. After my extremely poor showing of only 36 films last year, I'm trying to beat that mark in January alone.
post #136 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

The Matthew Shepard Story
TV Movie detailing the punishment phase in the trail of Shepard's murderer. Starring Stockard Channing and Sam Waterston, it falls into far too many of the standard TV movie traps: shoddy editing, thin characters and the network censors. This is a bloody and gruesome act of violence; either show it or don't show it on the screen. Going halfway is bastardization. Thumbs up only because it is something everyone should see as a message movie and as a real event.
post #137 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm R
Citizen Kane

First time viewing what many consider the greatest film of all time. While it was a good film, I'm still not particularly sure why it has been anointed such.

I saw it for the first time in 2003 and I thought it was an excellent film... but I'm with you in that I don't understand the leap to "best movie ever made". It's one of them for me, though.
post #138 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

The Forgotten

What could have been a potentially great sci-fi film is ruined by casting. Julianne Moore has made such a career out of playing psychotic, whacked-out, emotionally unstable women, that I could never believe for a minute that the sci-fi elements were anything but part of a delusional wish fulfillment on her part.
post #139 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Big Fish 1/2
Didn't like this one even though the acting was good especially from Cate Blanchard. Plot was confusing.

Bright Young Things
Set during the beginning of WW1. Shows the decadence of high society during that period of time. Again the story didn't grab me.

The Good Shepherd 1/2
Priest is charge with the murder of a young man. I'm getting sick of these kind of stories. At least, it's not an all out bashing of the Catholic church.

The Descent
Where have I seen this one before? A bad rip-off, of another bad movie, The Core. At least the Descent had Worf.

Demon Hunter
A pretty bad B movie. I don't know why I waste my time watching these.

Tsunami, the Aftermath
A very well acted telemovie about the effects of the tsumani that struck
Thailand a couple of years ago. I really liked this one, but I don't know if it should count.
post #140 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Napoleon Dynamite

Knew I was in trouble when the MTV logo came on. I have never before watched a movie about a high school nerd in which I was actually rooting for the bullies to beat him up. What an unlikeable character. And what an unfunny movie. My head still hurts from watching this.
post #141 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by george kaplan
Napoleon Dynamite And what an unfunny movie. My head still hurts from watching this.
a perfect case of different strokes for different folks. i *love* this movie ... i would go so far as to say i think it's one of the best comedies made in recent times.

-----

title: children of men
rating: b
comments: a decent flick, but i felt it bogged down in places. but the amazing (and scary) vision of the future, the worthy performance by clive owen, and the neat-o tracking shot near the end helped keep me entertained.

title: a scanner darkly
rating: b
comments: i almost appreciated this more as an art project then a film. the animation style worked for me, but everything else was just so-so. not horrible ... just not fantastic.

title: pan's labyrinth
rating: a
comments: what a refreshing take on the genre. not a fairy-tale story for kids, but one that sticks with you (i'm still thinking about some of the images i saw). a great performance by the young lead actress too.

----

and thx for the review of red room michael ... i went ahead and tossed that into my netflix queue.
post #142 of 2529
Thread Starter 

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

01/13/07

Momia Azteca, La (1957)

Mexican horror film about a scientist (Raymond Gay) who uses hypnosis to look into people's past lives. He experiments on his girlfriend and learns she was a sacrificed princess who was buried with a golden breastplate. The scientist decides to go looking for it and eventually runs into the title character as well as a master thief known as The Bat. Here's a good idea to all future filmmakers if you're going to make a movie called The Aztec Mummy. Make sure the mummy is in the picture for more than three minutes. Technically speaking this is a fairly well made film but one can't help but be letdown since the title character hardly gets any screentime.

Maldicion de la Momia Azteca, La (1957)

Corny sequel to the above film has The Bat escaping police custody and kidnapping the scientist and his girlfriend (both from the first film). This time around there's also an overweight, masked wrestler named The Angel who tries to help matters and of course there's the aztec mummy who is nice enough to stop by for about five minutes. While the first film was a tad bit more serious in tone, this one here is pure camp from start to finish and manages to get quite a few unintentional laughs. I couldn't help but laugh my ass off at The Angel who has to be one of the dumbest "heroes" in film history. His goal is to protect the scientist and his family but he gets them in more trouble than anything else. The scene where The Angel gets beat up by The Bat's men is priceless. This film only runs 63-minutes but I still can't figure out why they only use the mummy for five minutes. Oh well.

Momia Azteca Contra el Robot Humano, La (1958)

I've seen the American dubbed version of this, known as The Robot vs. The Aztec Mummy but this was my first viewing of the Mexican version. In this third film, The Bat somehow survives and in order to steal the priceless jewels from the mummy, he creates a human robot. This film runs 64-minutes and twenty-five of those minutes is nothing more than scenes from the previous two films. The new footage here is all pretty lifeless and dull with the exception of the robot, which has to be the poorest looking one in film history. The big fight between the robot and the mummy is dull as well. As bad as this is things got much worse with The Wrestling Women vs. the Aztec Mummy.

Gemidos de Placer (1983)

Jess Franco directed this film about a man (Robert Foster) who invites a woman (Lina Romay) to live with him so that they can drive his wife crazy when she returns home from an asylum. Once again Franco bases a film on the work of Marquis de Sade but the end results aren't too good. I had to view the film in Spanish without any subs so perhaps a proper version will improve my thoughts but I found the story rather boring, the pacing off and the sex scenes were unerotic and came off laughable during some parts. I'm not sure what was up with Romay but she was quite skinny here, which normally wasn't the case in her 80's period.

01/14/07

Shining, The (1980)

Years ago a theater in Louisville played several Kubrick films but this was one I missed out on so I jumped at the chance to catch it at the midnight showing. I got there at 11:15 to get my ticket and there was a group of people ahead of me trying to get their money out so I cut ahead of them and got my ticket when the cashier then pulled a "Sold Out" sign. Inside the theater I discovered that I was probably one of the youngest people there as it was certainly a high school/college crowd. I was a little worried about this and sure enough there was some MST3K types in there but they finally shut up when the movie started to get intense. The print shows was certainly beat up and it appears to have been an original or at least a very old one because the old Warner logo was still on it. The film was shown 1.66 and for my money it just didn't look right. I'll certainly be keeping my 4:3 DVD if the upcoming SE is matted.

Either way, I've often called this the greatest flawed masterpiece ever made. The more I see this film the more I fall in love with it. I'm at the point now, even with its flaws, that I'd call it one of the greatest horror films ever made. Kubrick's master touch is all over this thing, especially the wonderful tracking shots of Danny on his bike and the POV shots are all brilliantly done. When Danny first runs into the two little girls, for my money this is still the most chilling scenes I've seen from any movie. I just love the way Kubrick takes his time to introduce us to the hotel and the characters. I think this really pays off as it builds up suspense over time and really lets it all go during the frantic ending. I've got several theories about what happens in the film but I won't go into them now. I know a lot are critical of Nicholson's performance but I think it's wonderful. Yes, it's way over the top and at times campy but I think that was the point he and Kubrick wanted. No matter how the character is acting, we see his breakdown in front of us and when someone's mind snap who's to say how that person will carry on?

I mentioned the wonderful tracking and POV shots and this really comes through when Jack is following Wendy when she's got the bat. The way Kubrick keeps the camera flowing is quite chilling and certainly very effective. The music score is terrific as well and it really rattles the nerves throughout. It's funny to think that in 1980 Fangoria readers voted this the worst horror film of the year and voted Friday the 13th as the best. I think time has spoken about that issue and this film really is one of the last of its kind. I kept thinking about this younger crowd and their horror films like Saw and Hostel and it was really depressing because those are basically snuff films while this here is true horror.

Saw 3 unrated version

Jigsaw is on his death bed and kidnaps a nurse to help keep him alive. If he dies so does she. Also on hand is another man who must play Jigsaw's game. To say anything else would pretty much ruin several surprises that happen towards the end of the film. I'm not a fan of this series and while I found the first two film very well made, I think they crossed the line that no horror film should cross in the fact that they were mean spirited and sadistic. I was worried at the start of this film because we once again entered that sadistic violence but thankfully this ended after the first thirty minutes and when the "game" started we actually got a pretty good little thriller. The torture scenes are a lot tamer and take a back seat to the story, which is why I think this is the best of the series. The character of Jigsaw has always been an interesting one but we really didn't get to know anything about him in the first two movies. He's on full display here and it was interesting to see him interact with the people playing the game. I viewed the unrated DVD and I'm not sure how much is different from the R-rated theatrical cut but the brain operation scene is certainly well done.
post #143 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Star Wars

I still think this is the best of the Star Wars films.
post #144 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

title: the night listener
rating: d
comments: this one just didn't work for me. i never bought the premise (yeah, i know it's "inspired" by true events), never cared much for any of the characters and just couldn't get into it. it just felt too artificial.
post #145 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

y tu mama tambien - (8 of 10)

Cuaron's film is ambitious but never quite powerful, it tells a fascinating story of relationships, modernity, Mexico, class struggle and politics. It covers these mostly through sex, sexuality and sexual tension. Tenoch and Julio both have girlfriends that like to fuck, and since all four have graduated high school, the girlfriends are heading out to tour Europe for the summer. The four wrest promises from each other to be faithful, all knowing that nothing of the sort will happen. Tenoch's father is the secretary of state and the family enjoys all the benefits of high government office in Mexico. Julio is pretty average Mexican family, not impoverished, but probably just getting by. Tenoch and Julio meet Louisa at one of Tenoch's relative's wedding. They hit on her and tell her about a beach, Heaven's mouth, they invent in the spur of the moment. Louisa's husband later tells her he's cheating on her and she takes off on a road trip with the boys to try and find this beach. The rest of the film is about their journey.

The camerawork in this film is just superb. Many long takes, lingering moments, but never for an instant dull. Voice over narration occasionally fills in extra-textual information we couldn't know otherwise and is an interesting artistic device and counterpoint to the visuals--it is a bit disconcerting though, and that's the point. Cuaron is showing us the fragile, thin edge that Mexico and its people live on, be it the explosive emotions of the three main characters or uncommented on incidental background action between the people and the state. The symbolism of the film (such as the pigs near the end of the film) doesn't come off as aggressive or in your face, but feels equally like a natural piece of the diagetic world as it does as a comment by the filmmaker.

Writing and characters are excellent, but the film deliberately keeps the audience at a bit of a distance because it's not just a character piece but has broader implications as well. The performances are uniformly outstanding, although Louisa's character is not as finely drawn or performed as the two boys.

An excellent film, Children of Men is a very close companion piece to this film and I think I understand the themes and subtexts of that film much better now for having seen y tu mama tambien.

Adam
post #146 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Elliott
Saw 3 unrated version

I'm not a fan of this series and while I found the first two film very well made, I think they crossed the line that no horror film should cross in the fact that they were mean spirited and sadistic. I was worried at the start of this film because we once again entered that sadistic violence but thankfully this ended after the first thirty minutes and when the "game" started we actually got a pretty good little thriller. The torture scenes are a lot tamer and take a back seat to the story, which is why I think this is the best of the series.

I think that what sets the SAW series above others of its ilk is that the character Jigsaw is actually doing these awful things to people as a means of trying to set them straight and save them before it's too late, which is what I like about the films.

But Michael, I just have to say that this reminds me of our recent discussion over in "Sight & Sound". Here you're deciding for yourself what a movie "should" or "shouldn't" be, like you were just rallying against doing . Remember? You were saying people shouldn't bash BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN - for instance - because it didn't contain any sex or gore? Here you are relieved that SAW 3 didn't "cross the line" like the "other SAW films did", which you use to judge the movie's quality.

Now, I'm not saying this is incorrect - on the contrary, I've been pulling for this in my viewpoint for a long time... but I just hope you see what I mean now, that a person may certainly bring his own personal beliefs and values system into saying what he likes or does not like about any film.
post #147 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Nothing But Trouble (1944)

If George is reading, here's a good example of where I share his feelings about disliked films that don't improve on a second viewing. I first saw this Laurel and Hardy misfire some 10 years back, and it stank then, and it still did this time. Here, Stan and Ollie are looking for work as an unemployed butler and cook. They wind up being hired by a rich woman where Hardy cooks his famous "steak a la Oliver" and nothing much happens in the bargain. The pair also get involved with a King who happens to be a young boy who is hell bent on breaking free of the confines of royalty by playing football with street kids and also tagging along with L&H (reminded me of the rich kid from Our Gang's "Honkey Donkey" short).

This is mostly quite a painfully unfunny film save for one or two forgettable moments, and the worst reason it rates low is because it's way too wholesome and sweetened, with Stan and Ollie's characters really speaking and acting nothing like their classic screen personas as they try to be guardians to the young King. The worst case here is poor Stan Laurel who comes off normal and not at all like his typical dimwitted or childlike character throughout most of this movie. Also hurting the movie is that too much time is spent on the boy instead of the comedians. Fans are always talking about how bad Laurel & Hardy's 1940's movies are, and having seen them all now I can disagree strongly in favor of the 6 Fox films, and maybe even MGM's AIR RAID WARDENS. But there's no doubt for me that NOTHING BUT TROUBLE is pretty bad, and it takes the crown as what I'd call "worst Laurel and Hardy film". I even thought UTOPIA (their final movie) had more laughs.
post #148 of 2529
Thread Starter 

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

First and foremost, I think there's a big difference between criticizing BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN for not having hardcore sex scenes and criticizing SAW for being mean spirited. However, you could make a point with what you said but I think a better point would have been criticizing me for my low ratings of those D'Amato flicks I've been going through this month.

However, there are two or three ways I can take this but I'll fall back on a previous post at another board re: Is Horror Moral? When it comes to the general press horror fans are looked at as weirdos because a lot of people will look at us and wonder how we could be entertained by people being slaughtered. It's hard to explain why we like violence in FRIDAY THE 13TH but I've always stated that it's really no difference then the violence you'd see in RAMBO or DIE HARD.

However, not trying to sound like Roger Ebert, I think there is a line that shouldn't be crossed and yes, you could call this a personal expression but I would go further and ask what "mental state" someone would have to be in to enjoy someone being tortured in a mean spirited, sadistic way. I mean, I can watch SALO and be disgusted by it and I understand someone not wanting to experience that type of filth again. However, I'd be a tad bit worried if someone watched SALO and "got off" on it in an entertainment type of way. The rape scenes in THE LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT and I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE and pretty out there and I'd be worried if someone got off on it.

In regards to SAW, HOSTEL and other sadistic horror films, my comments were mainly centered at someone who would get off on this type of horror. Is it moral? Has horror finally gone too far? One scene in SAW or HOSTEL is more graphic, brutal and bloody then the entire FRIDAY THE 13TH series. I'm not one to say horror films should cut back but I can enjoy the violence in F13 or DIE HARD as entertainment. I can't be entertained by seeing torture in SAW. I can be entertained by women in prison films as long as they aren't mean spirited. Of course, you might find the violence in SAW entertaining and that's where the debate of the line being crossed comes into play.

I'm not sure if you feel the violence in horror films have gone too far or if you "enjoy" SAW because, as you said, Jigsaw is killing bad people in order to teach them a lesson. But as in SAW 3, I think the character tells Jigsaw what he's doing isn't right no matter how he sees it and that's how I personally feel towards this sadistic violence.

On a technical level, the sadistic and mean spirted violence ruins and chance for a scare, which is what a horror film should deliver IMO. If you read my review of THE SHINING I mentioned these films before watching SAW 3. The one death scene in THE SHINING was 70 seconds longer and more graphic but Kubrick cut it down to a matter of seconds because he felt the overly violent situation would ruin the suspense. I personally agree with him and think the scene works fine. In the original version, Nicholson's character pretty much crushed his skull, broke his spine and continually tortured him. To me, the scene would have lost its impact.

George found HALLOWEEN too violent. I found SAW too violent. Is there a personal thing coming into play here? Yes. However, my attack against the film is because SAW isn't trying to win an Oscar and it's not trying to be great filmmaking. It's a popcorn movie that should be "fun" and "entertaining". I personally don't see how torture can be fun. The mystery of the SAW movies and the "what would you do" works terrifically and makes the films what they are. And, IMO, SAW 3 proves you didn't have to be sadistic in making the films effective.


Re: NOTHING BUT TROUBLE

Here's what I wrote in last years thread:

Laurel and Hardy meet a young boy and soon they discover that he's really a King. The duo must protect the boy from a few people trying to kill him. Once again, I had heard this was a pretty bad film but while it's miles from Hal Roach material, the film contains a few laughs and has a little charm to it. It's too bad Warner isn't including this in their upcoming set but my recording from TCM, which seemed to be remastered, will do just fine. The best moment takes place in a zoo where L&H must try and steal a streak away from a lion. Another nice moment is when Laurel is trying to ref a football game. Most of the gags are lazy and fall on their face but the film is a decent time killer.


Off topic but TCM is showing THE GOLD RUSH, RASHOMON and JUDGMENT AT NUREMBERG tonight starting at midnight. Did you record METROPOLIS last night? I know you've been meaning to catch some of these. You should certainly try and catch RASHOMON since I'm not sure if you've entered that director's world yet. (Not to mention but Hitchcock's FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT and Reed's THE THIRD MAN are on Wednesday night).
post #149 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Passage to Marseille (1944)

Viewed 1/8/2007

Solid WWII film has Humphrey Bogart escaping from Devil's Island so he
can fight the Nazis.

out of


Knef - Die frühen Jahre (2005)

Viewed 1/8/2007 (first viewing)

Fascinating documentary portrait of actress Hildegard Knef, Germany's
first big post-WWII movie star.

out of


Flowing (1956)

Viewed 1/9/2007 (first viewing)

A house of geishas must deal with the possibility of losing their
house and their way of life. Another winner from Mikio Naruse.

out of


Cinemania (2002)

Viewed 1/9/2007 (first viewing)

Amusing (and sometimes disturbing) documentary on a group of obsessive
film buffs.

out of


4 (2004)

Viewed 1/9/2007 (first viewing)

Nightmarish film follows three people as they try to sort out their
lives in modern-day Russia. Longish, but vivid and engrossing.

out of


City of Rott (2006)

Viewed 1/10/2007 (first viewing)

Cartoon zombies! A crazy old man wanders through a city of the
walking dead looking for a pair of comfortable loafers and talking to
his walker. Scores of zombies get their worm-infested brains bashed
out in this stylized animated effort, which is cool at first but
quickly becomes tiresome. It feels more like you're watching a video
game than a movie, and even at 77 minutes it goes on too long.
Probably would have worked better as a short feature.

out of


My Dead Girlfriend (2006)

Viewed 1/10/2007 (first viewing)

A guy accidentally kills his girlfriend (in horribly contrived
fashion) but brings her back to undead life by using a spell in one of
her witchcraft books. Zombie girlfriend gets hungry and munches on
visiting friends. Seen this before in better movies.

out of


Zombie Cult Massacre (1998)

Viewed 1/10/2007 (first viewing)

A troubled couple is taken in by a cult whose members believe the
final days are fast approaching. (No horsemen in sight, but there are
plenty of zombies!) Interesting premise mixes the living dead,
religious fanatics and angry bikers with moderate success. Almost
done in by its cheapness, but saved by some truly nasty gore.

out of


Kids (1995)

Viewed 1/10/2007 (first viewing)

Larry Clark's infamous tale of a young lothario and the effect his
sexual escapades have on one girl in particular. Seamy drama is
surprisingly effective.

out of


In a Glass Cage (1986)

Viewed 1/10/2007 (first viewing)

Truly disturbing story of a Nazi doctor who once used his position to
molest young boys. Now a crippled recluse in South America, he
discovers that his new nurse has a shocking secret. Well done if you
can stomach the subject matter.

out of


Marie Antoinette (1938)

Viewed 1/11/2007 (first viewing)

Good Hollywood biopic of the doomed French queen. Would have been
nice to actually see a few heads roll, though - what gyp.

out of


The Illusionist (2006)

Viewed 1/11/2007 (first viewing)

Lovingly-crafted film about a master magician who schemes to get his
lover out of the clutches of her nasty finance, a prince who'll stop
at nothing to keep her. Standard suspense elements are set adrift in an interesting milieu, making for a mixed bag of a movie.

out of


The Quiet Duel (1949)

Viewed 1/12/2007 (first viewing)

Toshiro Mifune stars as a wartime doctor who contracts syphillis from
a soldier during surgery. Deciding to give up his fiancee after
returning home, the doctor tracks down his former patient and forces
him to face the consequences of his actions. Good early effort from
Akira Kurosawa.

out of


Zooey (2006)

Viewed 1/13/2007 (first viewing)

A prostitute and a drug dealer fall in love, get married and dream of
a better life in this earnest urban drama.

out of


A Lucky Day (2002)

Viewed 1/13/2007 (first viewing)

A young Italian woman living in Argentina struggles to make a living
during an economic crisis. She also dreams of following a one-time
lover to Italy and determines that nothing will stand in her way.
Rambling drama is only intermittently engaging.

out of


Fragile (2005)

Viewed 1/14/2007 (first viewing)

At a children's hospital about to be closed down, the new night nurse
discovers that something is not about to let the last of the children
leave. So-so ghost story.

out of


Zombie Holocaust (1980)

Viewed 1/14/2007 (first viewing)

A rash of corpse mutilations at a NYC hospital leads a group of
journalists and anthropologists to a remote Pacific island where they
run afoul of cannibals and a mad doctor. A few token zombies show up
to justify the title, but with the cannibals having already eaten
everyone they just kind of amble around. Super schlocky and gory
Italian horror flick manages to entertain despite its ineptitude -
check out that hilarious gaffe in the scene depicting a high rise
suicide!

out of
post #150 of 2529

Re: Track the Films You Watch (2007)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Elliott
First and foremost, I think there's a big difference between criticizing BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN for not having hardcore sex scenes and criticizing SAW for being mean spirited. However, you could make a point with what you said...

That's good enough for me, Mike. I'm glad we agree

Quote:
...However, there are two or three ways I can take this but I'll fall back on a previous post at another board re: Is Horror Moral? When it comes to the general press horror fans are looked at as weirdos because a lot of people will look at us and wonder how we could be entertained by people being slaughtered. It's hard to explain why we like violence in FRIDAY THE 13TH but I've always stated that it's really no difference then the violence you'd see in RAMBO or DIE HARD.

However, not trying to sound like Roger Ebert, I think there is a line that shouldn't be crossed and yes, you could call this a personal expression but I would go further and ask what "mental state" someone would have to be in to enjoy someone being tortured in a mean spirited, sadistic way.

It doesn't mean people necessarily enjoy it. They may be uneasy about it or think it's rather horrific, and that works for them in the context of the film; maybe they put themselves into the victim's position and share the victim's fears and terrors.

But even if someone "gets off" on the gore or torture, you seem to want to play moral psychiatrist by asking what "mental state" the person has. Some psychologists believe it helps people vent, as an outlet --- but this is really going outside the topic. The point is that a viewer, or critic, or reviewer, whatever, brings part of himself to his movie reviews. His standards, his perceptions, his morals, etc... That's part of who he is, and that's what should make every personal review unique, in my mind. When I read a review I want to know what that individual thinks of the film, and not some pre-established cinematic jargon that hits all the correct notes we've all come to expect and may find anywhere. Of course, sometimes our own findings happen to coincide with the textbook evaluation too.

Quote:
I mean, I can watch SALO and be disgusted by it and I understand someone not wanting to experience that type of filth again.

But wouldn't you say (by your own past statements) that this person is somehow letting his own personal prejudices and preferences interfere with giving the film a fair chance? I don't think that's a problem, but I know you've thought so. The difference is, I just wouldn't turn to this person for advice on what a good "disgusting" film might be. I don't know if you're familiar with the critic Jeffrey Lyons, but he's always down against any film even remotely violent or horrific. Now I think he's entitled to hold that criteria and inject some of himself into his subjective movie reviews, but it's just that I personally wouldn't go to him to find out if FREDDY VS. JASON was worth seeing. However, another individual who tends to hold similar feelings and can relate to Lyons might think Jeffrey's reviews tend to click for him.

Quote:
However, I'd be a tad bit worried if someone watched SALO and "got off" on it in an entertainment type of way. The rape scenes in THE LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT and I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE and pretty out there and I'd be worried if someone got off on it.

In regards to SAW, HOSTEL and other sadistic horror films, my comments were mainly centered at someone who would get off on this type of horror. Is it moral? Has horror finally gone too far? One scene in SAW or HOSTEL is more graphic, brutal and bloody then the entire FRIDAY THE 13TH series.

I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding how this all fits into what we're discussing. All I was getting at was that you felt that SAW or HOSTEL went "too far" and I have no problem with your opinion, and these days I'm even inclined to slightly agree... but it's just that you've demonstrated that you do, in fact, relate or not relate to certain movies based on your own personal feelings. You don't always just objectively let the director take you anywhere and try to judge all films based on what "he" tells you he wants to achieve. You've basically said: "I don't care if the filmmaker intended to cross over the line and go farther than ever before with SAW; I didn't care for that and it didn't work as well for me because of this".

Quote:
I can be entertained by women in prison films as long as they aren't mean spirited.

I don't think I know of many non-mean spirited WIP films!

Quote:
But as in SAW 3, I think the character tells Jigsaw what he's doing isn't right no matter how he sees it and that's how I personally feel towards this sadistic violence.

This is a new revelation to me about you and these types of films, Michael. I mean, you love MAINAC (1980), where a killer slices the forehead of a woman and scalps her, and later even fires a rifle through the front windshield of a parked car, shattering the glass and exploding the driver's head to shreds. I'm assuming it works because you're horrified by this, but anyway --

--with SAW, so the character of Jigsaw is also a bit deranged, even though he "thinks" he's doing "good".

Quote:
On a technical level, the sadistic and mean spirted violence ruins and chance for a scare, which is what a horror film should deliver IMO.

The scenes I described above for MANIAC (the film you enjoy) are pretty much gruesome exploitation pure and simple, especially the bit about cutting off the woman's scalp, which is done after he kills her, and he has even composed himself a bit. I know you're going to tell me that there is something else to the movie that works for you -- the schizo character and his personal demons and so on, and I agree with that... but even here, you are allowing your own rationalizations and belief systems to affect your review of the film. And there is NOTHING wrong with that, is my point.

Quote:
George found HALLOWEEN too violent. I found SAW too violent. Is there a personal thing coming into play here? Yes. However, my attack against the film is because SAW isn't trying to win an Oscar and it's not trying to be great filmmaking. It's a popcorn movie that should be "fun" and "entertaining".

Well, here you're deciding what their own intent was.
Throwing in the "Oscar" argument doesn't change anything to me, as I believe that most filmmakers are trying to truly make a good film, whatever the subject matter. I don't think many of them deliberately set out to make a bad movie. Here you are using the word "should" again, which further proves what I'm trying to say - that you have your own beliefs as to what a film should or shouldn't be, independently of what the director himself is doing.

Quote:
I personally don't see how torture can be fun. The mystery of the SAW movies and the "what would you do" works terrifically and makes the films what they are.

Okay then, and I happen to agree with you there. But then there are other reviewers who wouldn't even be that forgiving and share our observation, but they're entitiled too.

Quote:
And, IMO, SAW 3 proves you didn't have to be sadistic in making the films effective.

I see. A good point, but I think it's also as valid if someone else says SAW 3 didn't work for them because the sadism factor was reduced, for whatever their own personal reasons. You and I may not agree but others might.

Quote:
Re: NOTHING BUT TROUBLE

Here's what I wrote in last years thread:

Laurel and Hardy meet a young boy and soon they discover that he's really a King. The duo must protect the boy from a few people trying to kill him. Once again, I had heard this was a pretty bad film but while it's miles from Hal Roach material, the film contains a few laughs and has a little charm to it. It's too bad Warner isn't including this in their upcoming set but my recording from TCM, which seemed to be remastered, will do just fine. The best moment takes place in a zoo where L&H must try and steal a streak away from a lion. Another nice moment is when Laurel is trying to ref a football game. Most of the gags are lazy and fall on their face but the film is a decent time killer.

Mike, thanks for including this review. I can't tell you how many times I wish I could locate one of your reviews on any given film, but am unable to easily do so. Which is why I'd like to once again try to persuade you to seriously consider placing some of your reviews over at the IMDB. It's just so much easier over there to go to your master list and hit "N", and quickly get to your review.

Quote:
Off topic but TCM is showing THE GOLD RUSH, RASHOMON and JUDGMENT AT NUREMBERG tonight starting at midnight. Did you record METROPOLIS last night? I know you've been meaning to catch some of these. You should certainly try and catch RASHOMON since I'm not sure if you've entered that director's world yet. (Not to mention but Hitchcock's FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT and Reed's THE THIRD MAN are on Wednesday night).

I didn't remember METROPOLIS was on, but that's one I've been wanting to see. I've got a situation where I can't record off the TV just now, so this is a problem.
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