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2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down! - Page 7

post #181 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
rich,
He's used the same logic EVERY year on making the overall rankings. Read the thread from the start and it'll be explained in detail. Makes sense to me. He tallies up the top #1 vote getter as well (which he explained).

That someone used the same logic EVERY year is meaningless. It just means the same process was followed, saying nothing of its MERIT.

Look, I'm not here to dump on Adam's summary, but when he translates that to RANKINGS it goes too far.

I show up to work tomorrow and come up with a ranking system that gives the same weighting for the number 10 project as I do for the number 1 project; I'd be laughed out of the room.

Yes, he looks at the number 1 films but stops there and these don't change the rankings anyway. And I don't blame him, counting everybody's votes AND the ranked position of each vote is a lot of work versus just counting total instances of being mentioned on the top ten lists.

Let's not get too carried away by what we learn from this. For example, 4 people selected Casino Royale as the number one film of the year. They are welcomed to their opinion but that doesn't mean it's meaningful to me or others.

What we learn from this is the films that people saw. For example, many people shy away from foreign films with subtitles, so what do we learn from their list other than what they've seen?

The Lives of Others isn't even on the top 30 by votes. What did we learn other than many people didn't see the film?

Bottom line, is that films on thousands of screens and the people that see them make this a more middle-of-the-road summary. If you're a middle-of-the-road kinda guy (Lord knows there aren't too many women here), this summary probably works for you.
post #182 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich_d
That someone used the same logic EVERY year is meaningless. It just means the same process was followed, saying nothing of its MERIT.

Look, I'm not here to dump on Adam's summary, but when he translates that to RANKINGS it goes too far.

I show up to work tomorrow and come up with a ranking system that gives the same weighting for the number 10 project as I do for the number 1 project; I'd be laughed out of the room.

That's not how he does it. A #1 ranking gives 10 times the points a #10 does. Read his rationale. It does make sense. It has every year.
post #183 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Maybe this year he didn't post a rationale. Hell if I can find it. Sure not at the beginning of this thread. Sure not posted with the scores.

So, where is this rationale? Admittedly, a 10 point to 1 system is better than I thought was in play.
post #184 of 214
Thread Starter 

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

you know Rich is right, I don't think I explained how it is I come up with the HTF list.

I use excel, columns are HTFers names, rows are movies, I take an ordered list and assign 10 points to #1, 9 points to #2 etc, down to 1 point for #10.

I then use excel to add up the total score for each film, and I use other formulas to figure the average vote, the number of votes per film, standard deviation, and various other stats like number of number one votes. The final list is ordered only by total score, but the other stats are also provided. So you can see that Departed has a total score around 60.5 points higher than Children of Men, but that Children of Men is clearly the winner in the number of times it was the number one choice (11 times). The stat that shows how many list mentions each film had which would explain why Departed is still winning (43 of 53 list mentions, versus COMs 30 of 53 list mentions), although the standard deviation would be lower for COM (2.1 vs 2.4) and naturally the average vote is higher for COM (8.1 vs 7.1) . I provide the additional stats so people can see how films did against each other in relation to one another.

I'm not dedicated enough to do what Dana Filhart used to do, which was import everyone's 'seen' list from the 2006 film list and give extra weight to people who had seen the most 2006 films. And it's also impossible because virtually no one uses the old fashioned 2006 film list thread, because they track ALL film viewings in the 'track the films you watch thread' and I really don't feel like wading through those lists looking for the 2006 films to see how many people had seen that year, or sending 50 pms asking for a stat like that (and only getting six replies, and that's a generous estimate).

I'll post an updated list& stats tuesday or wednesday.

edit:
for reference here are the stats from february 19th, which I think was the last update I posted with 53 lists total:
post #185 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam_S
you know Rich is right, I don't think I explained how it is I come up with the HTF list.

I use excel, columns are HTFers names, rows are movies, I take an ordered list and assign 10 points to #1, 9 points to #2 etc, down to 1 point for #10.

I then use excel to add up the total score for each film, and I use other formulas to figure the average vote, the number of votes per film, standard deviation, and various other stats like number of number one votes. The final list is ordered only by total score, but the other stats are also provided. So you can see that Departed has a total score around 60.5 points higher than Children of Men, but that Children of Men is clearly the winner in the number of times it was the number one choice (11 times). The stat that shows how many list mentions each film had which would explain why Departed is still winning (43 of 53 list mentions, versus COMs 30 of 53 list mentions), although the standard deviation would be lower for COM (2.1 vs 2.4) and naturally the average vote is higher for COM (8.1 vs 7.1) . I provide the additional stats so people can see how films did against each other in relation to one another.

I'm not dedicated enough to do what Dana Filhart used to do, which was import everyone's 'seen' list from the 2006 film list and give extra weight to people who had seen the most 2006 films. And it's also impossible because virtually no one uses the old fashioned 2006 film list thread, because they track ALL film viewings in the 'track the films you watch thread' and I really don't feel like wading through those lists looking for the 2006 films to see how many people had seen that year, or sending 50 pms asking for a stat like that (and only getting six replies, and that's a generous estimate).

I'll post an updated list& stats tuesday or wednesday.

edit:
for reference here are the stats from february 19th, which I think was the last update I posted with 53 lists total:

Thanks for all the work you do Adam... I appreciate it.
post #186 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Ditto.

I still can't figure out a top 10... I've seen The Last King of Scotland (), Miami Vice (), The Lady in the Water () and The Prestige () and Thank You for Smoking () in recent days.

--
H
post #187 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Adam, don't debate with Rich on this, is a pointless effort.

It's a freaking FUN effort to put some sort of context on everyone's lists. Your complilation methods are used over and over (because Dana and I both did similar stats on the lists) because they are considered pretty standard. There are a variety of commonly accepted ranking systems for use in NCAA football, voting (and there are about 10 ways to count up votes, typically with "yes/no" as the worst, ie the one we use in US elections), and every other place people are asked to vote/rank.

Saying that using any of those "goes too far" is childishly melodramatic. "Not in my town mister, that's pushing it too far when you count votes that way, people's lives are on the line here and I won't let you throw them away on a hack formula." Sheesh.

Not only that but you were very clear in the post he quoted and then ranted about. You said "list mentions" vs "overall ranking" and that CoM would have to get a bunch of #1s just to get enough points to catch Departed. It was not ambigious, just a hair trigger on a misunderstanding that wasn't your fault.



I never got where people flipped out about the idea of ranking them (they refuse on principle) or that anyone might want to count those lists in any way. Cripes, don't even use HTF to discuss films because next year I'll just do a top 10 listing based on how often posters MENTION a film in any of the forums. OMG, the end of the universe, someone might actually read my list and take it too seriously and that will alter where the money goes and what kinds of films are made.

The rankings are just a best effort, the sane among us realize this and are comfortable with that. Group compilations/votes are the reminder that not everyone thinks like you, and that's one of the main reasons I started this tradition. The "Time to Throw Down" stems from that and the idea of making people stand up for what they like rather than just trashing other people's opinions from the sidelines.




And for reasons you mention Adam (and others) I HATE that the "this year only" film lists are abandoned in favor of "hey, I watched Buffy Season 2 last night, put it on my list". I'm fine that a viewing log exists, but that's not the same concept at all as just talking about the current crop of theatrical views. It's too bad more people don't just log with both, cut and paste the year-specific posts to that current year thread. Oh well.
post #188 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Relevent to this thread I saw Marie Antoinette and it didn't make it into the top 10 (top 20 though) and I have Blood Diamond and Volver in the house waiting for a spin.

I did just rewatch Miami Vice and I'm probably going to bump it into the top 10, as well as moving Flushed Away down a few slots.
post #189 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Paxton
And for reasons you mention Adam (and others) I HATE that the "this year only" film lists are abandoned in favor of "hey, I watched Buffy Season 2 last night, put it on my list". I'm fine that a viewing log exists, but that's not the same concept at all as just talking about the current crop of theatrical views. It's too bad more people don't just log with both, cut and paste the year-specific posts to that current year thread. Oh well.
Ditto. I still keep up with the yearly film list thread, I should bump it up with each update I guess. Unfortunateluy I've not gone to the theater much this year, but my 07 count will shoot up when they start showing up on DVD. Still catching up with 06 .

--
H
post #190 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
Ditto. I still keep up with the yearly film list thread, I should bump it up with each update I guess. Unfortunateluy I've not gone to the theater much this year, but my 07 count will shoot up when they start showing up on DVD. Still catching up with 06 .

--
H
Yeah, me too. Sucks. I just haven't had the time really. But I also got out of the habit a little as well. Trying to work my way back into it and trying to ramp back up my time here at HTF as well. For a guy that loves film I've been pretty negligent the last year.
post #191 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Well I finalized my list. This has got to be it. Inconvenient Truth and The Departed were dropped from my list. I changed the rankings on some. I added The Fountain at #5 and Pan's Labyrinth was added to the top of the list.
post #192 of 214
Thread Starter 

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

With 62 voters, here are the latest aggregate results for the top thirtyfive films.
a number 1 vote was awarded ten points, a number 10 vote was award one point
unranked lists of ten films had each film awarded 5.5 points
formatting issues between excel and HTF/vbulletin means the average ranking doesn't display properly, so I omitted it.

TITLES TOTALS number of votes # of #1 votes st dev
Departed, The 342.5 49 6 2.5
Children of Men 293 36 14 2.2
Pan's Labyrinth 209 27 6 2.5
United 93 204.5 32 4 2.7
Casino Royale 161 30 4 2.8
Prestige, The 151 24 1 2.1
Superman Returns 147 21 2 2.8
Little Miss Sunshine 138.5 27 3 2.7
Fountain, The 119.5 17 6 3.4
V for Vendetta 117.5 25 0 2.3
Letters From Iwo Jima 97.5 15 3 2.6
Borat 95 19 0 2.2
Rocky Balboa 60 14 0 2.3
Clerks II 56.5 13 0 1.9
Little Children 56 9 1 2.4
Thank You For Smoking 56 13 1 2.6
Babel 55 10 1 3.0
Blood Diamond 55 8 0 1.6
Miami Vice 53.5 10 0 1.9
Queen, The 49.5 12 0 2.0
Inconvenient Truth, An 49 9 0 2.5
Proposition, The 42 9 0 2.6
Brick 39 9 0 2.6
Stranger Than Fiction 38.5 10 1 2.8
Flags of Our Fathers 35 7 0 3.0
Kingdom of Heaven: Director's Cut 33 5 0 0.9
Tristram Shandy 32 5 0 3.1
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest 29.5 11 0 2.0
Apocalypto 26 7 1 3.3
Volver 26 5 0 3.1
Monster House 22.5 6 1 3.5
Akeelah and the Bee 22 4 0 3.5
Dreamgirls 22 6 0 2.7
Mission Impossible III 21 5 0 3.6
Cars 19 4 1 4.5
post #193 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

So, if I am reading Seth right, as we see films for that given year, we're not supposed to post the addition? I kind of like reading the latter posts since there are alot of films that are of high quality that have very short lives in theaters. Only a few months later, they get a second life on dvd. Then it's our chance to give these films a chance and have the opportunity make our list or perhaps even drop out of it. I think that adds to the thread and doesn't take away.
post #194 of 214
Thread Starter 

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

I'm not sure I understand you right, Tim. Of course you should continue to add to your list and adjust it as you see other 2006 movies on dvd, nothing wrong with that.
post #195 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Hmm, hadn't looked at the Top 10 List before. I'd say from that, Volver, United 93 and Little Children are most likely to appear on my list.

I have Last King of Scotland, Children of Men, A Scanner Darkly, American Dreamz at home right now so I'm getting closer to being able to put together my list. I think I have Dreamgirls coming soon, but several of the other biggies like Pan's Labyrinth, The Fountain and the Eastwood films are further down and several weeks away.

I've always cross-posted to both threads, I just can't find time to write reviews at all anymore. I've only been updating my sig when I write something, but it's still in January/early Feb. I do keep my full viewing list in the 2007 Movies thread rather than the "track the films you watch" thread.
post #196 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Ok, with only 2-3 2006 films left on my Netflix list (and Perfume the only one likely to impact this list), I think I can finally post a representative list. Looking back, I suppose I could have done so last year, when everyone else did, since only 3 films I caught up with in 2007 made the final list, as opposed to 7 that I saw in 2006.

Total 2006 Films Seen: 117

Top 10 Films of 2006

1. Shortbus (John Cameron Mitchell's 2nd film is as tender as it is audacious in its treatment of human sexuality and the gamut of emotions, hangups, contradictions, and joy that we attach to this integral part of our being.)
2. Little Children (Todd Field creates a technically marvelous Kubrickian landscape of adults too self-absorbed and confused to nurture the next generation)
3. Fateless (Just when you think nothing more can be said on film about The Holocaust, comes this starkly powerful story from Hungary of one boy's journey of survival and self-discovery after he is sent to a concentration camp.)
4. Manderlay (What Lars Von Trier's 2nd film in his America Trilogy loses in freshness and the acting performances of its leads, it makes up for in tension and thematic power in this complex story of racism, class conflict, and pride)
5. When The Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Chapters (Spike Lee's lengthy documentary on the Hurrican Katrina tragedy gives voice to the voiceless to lash out at a system they feel has failed them. It also provides a stark view that little, if anything, was learned from these events yet manages to reflect the spirit and resiliency of the people who were most affected.)
6. Sympathy for Lady Vengeance (Told with all the wit, superb visuals, whipcrack editing and visceral excitement of Park Chan-Wook's previous films, while adding a layer of moral complexity and questioning of motive that raises the film to new heights for this director.)
7. United 93 (A tremendous display of the power of film is taking a story where everyone knows the horrifying, tragic outcome, and making it into an edge-of-the-seat thriller where everything we see on screen is pulled toward an inexorable fate.)
8. Riding Alone for Thousands of Miles (Zhang Yimou returns to his humanitarian roots in this simple film that packs a great deal of emotional power in telling this story of a father's deep desire to do right by his son. He learns many things about himself and others on his journey, which also displays the great natural beauty of China.)
9. Bubble (Steven Soderbergh gets back to his indie roots with this film shot on HD video with a cast of nonactors about a murder that takes place among the denizens of a rural West Virginia town. A tonally odd, yet strangely hypnotic experience.)
10. Apocalypto (Mel Gibson's recreation of the world of the Maya is a stunning achievement in production design. He and his crew bring history to life with incredible detail that pulls one directly into this story of survival amid a civilization decaying before our eyes.)

Next 10
11. Requiem
12. Marie Antoinette
13. Volver
14. The Last King of Scotland
15. Children of Men
16. Letters From Iwo Jima
17. Tristram Shandy: A Cock and Bull Story
18. Curse of the Golden Flower
19. Dreamgirls
20. Calvaire


Honorable Mention: Tickets, Inside Man, Nanny McPhee, Time to Leave, Blood Diamond

Of the list Adam posted above, there are 3 films I haven't seen: Casino Royale, Miami Vice, Kingdom of Heaven: Director's Cut (I've seen whatever cut was on the original DVD)
post #197 of 214
Thread Starter 

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

I updated my list to include When the Levees Broke and Joyeux Noel, about the only movie left that might affect my list is Sweetland

I've added Brooks numbers in and updated the list, the only change is that When the Levees broke knocked Cars off the list to take it's spot at number 35 on the list.


Rank TITLES TOTALS number of votes # of #1 votes st dev
1 Departed, The 343.5 49 6 2.5
2 Children of Men 291 36 14 2.3
3 Pan's Labyrinth 209 27 6 2.5
4 United 93 208.5 33 4 2.7
5 Casino Royale 161 30 4 2.8
6 Prestige, The 151 24 1 2.1
7 Superman Returns 147 21 2 2.8
8 Little Miss Sunshine 138.5 27 3 2.7
9 Fountain, The 119.5 17 6 3.4
10 V for Vendetta 117.5 25 0 2.3
11 Letters From Iwo Jima 97.5 15 3 2.6
12 Borat 92 19 0 2.0
13 Little Children 65 10 1 2.4
14 Rocky Balboa 60 14 0 2.3
15 Clerks II 56.5 13 0 1.9
16 Thank You For Smoking 56 13 1 2.6
17 Babel 55 10 1 3.0
18 Blood Diamond 55 8 0 1.6
19 Miami Vice 53.5 10 0 1.9
20 Inconvenient Truth, An 49 9 0 2.5
21 Queen, The 48.5 11 0 1.9
22 Proposition, The 42 9 0 2.6
23 Stranger Than Fiction 38.5 10 1 2.8
24 Brick 36 8 0 2.7
25 Flags of Our Fathers 35 7 0 3.0
26 Kingdom of Heaven: Director's Cut 33 5 0 0.9
27 Tristram Shandy 32 5 0 3.1
28 Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest 29.5 11 0 2.0
29 Apocalypto 27 8 1 3.2
30 Volver 26 5 0 3.1
31 Akeelah and the Bee 22 4 0 3.5
32 Mission Impossible III 21 5 0 3.6
33 Monster House 20.5 6 1 3.6
34 Dreamgirls 20 6 0 2.6
35 When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts 19.5 4 0 3.2
post #198 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

John Bryant's 2006 Top 10 List
Rankings as of 01/13/2008 (31 2006 Releases Seen)

01.

02.

03.

04.

05.

06.

07.

08.

09.

10.
post #199 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Nice to see When The Levees Broke creep into to the top mix.

It was one of my must-sees of '06.
post #200 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

After seeing Little Children I put it at #5 for 2006. Still have Lives of Others and Science of Sleep to view, but currently my top 10 is now like this after some other adjustments and rescreenings:

Children of Men
Volver
The Departed
Miami Vice
Little Children

Pan's Labyrinth
Little Miss Sunshine
Flushed Away
Stranger than Fiction
The Queen
post #201 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Seth, I had considered The Lives of Others as a 2007 film for these list purposes. Looking at IMDB, it looks like it was played in a few US festivals in 2006, but was not released in general theaters in 2007. Pretty trivial, I know, but for these top ten list purposes, it could matter for the list this coming year end. It's my favorite of "2007."
post #202 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Tsai
Seth, I had considered The Lives of Others as a 2007 film for these list purposes. Looking at IMDB, it looks like it was played in a few US festivals in 2006, but was not released in general theaters in 2007. Pretty trivial, I know, but for these top ten list purposes, it could matter for the list this coming year end. It's my favorite of "2007."

Kirk,

It was scheduled to play in Washington D.C. in December. I remember being disappointed missing it by a couple weeks as my assignment in D.C. had ended. Just because it was scheduled doesn't mean it played though. Perhaps someone from NYC or L.A. can confirm whether it played there in 2006.

If so, I think we need to call it a 2006 film. Certainly as this forum has people from around the world, perhaps we should adopt a world-centric versus a U.S. centric view of things.

But I truly understand your intent and totally agree that the U.S. distribution of this film was a real miss last year. Damn fine film.
post #203 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Gee I never posted a top 10. OK without over thinking it, my favs of last year would go like so (5-10 in no particular order):

1- The Departed
2- United 93
3- Apocalypto
4- The Lives of Others
5- The Queen
The Prestige
Blood Diamond
Letters from Iwo Jima
PotC: DMC
Little Children

--
H
post #204 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

I don't think there's any doubt that The Lives of Others was a 2006 release considering it was originally released on 3/23/2006. It doesn't particularly matter how many theaters it was playing in in the U.S. at the end of the year.
post #205 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

I go by AA qualification. In that regard, it was obviously an '06 release.

--
H
post #206 of 214
Thread Starter 

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

march 23rd 2006 was it's release in germany, it premiered at the Telluride film festival in september 2006 but didn't get a US theatrical release until February. Due to the wacky rules surrounding films qualifying for foreign film category, the festivals qualifiied it, had it not made the final five of the nominations, it would be eligable for additional nominations this year, in the manner that City of God was (didn't make the foreign cut it's first year, but earned four nominations it's second year). Since it was nominated it's no longer eligible, though it is, essentially a 2007 film based on standard academy rules for all categories but foreign film.
post #207 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Yes, I too thought of City of God when I made my previous post. Will Sony Picture Classics remember this when the award season comes by?

Rich, I understand your point about being US centric (coincidentally, I'm not even in the US for the next few months!). I remember seeing Spirited Away in Asia, and putting an asterisk to the title when I listed it in my 2001 year end list as a title not qualifying for the American awards that year. It's rather silly to follow these arbitrary Academy rules, but then again, it's rather silly to make these lists to begin with. I still follow them just to make our year end lists easier to keep track of.
post #208 of 214
Thread Starter 

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Actually the reason City of God was able to earn it's nominations was because it was not nominated for best foreign language film the previous year, so the film's eligibility defaulted to standard eligibility rules for all films--and since it's theatrical run was in 2003 (but it qualified as Brazil's 2002 entry and had festival playdates in 2002), it had the same eligibility as all other films with a theatrical run in 2003. Because Lives of Others WAS nominated for best foreign language film in 2006 it is disqualified from being eligible for the 2007 academy awards. had it not been nominated it would be eligible. Films like Volver, that had a theatrical run in 2006, were only eligible in 2006, for the country submitting them in foreign language for 2006, and in all other categories.
post #209 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Nice list Holadem. Looks like we agree on several on your list.
post #210 of 214

Re: 2006 Top Ten Lists - Time to Throw Down!

Better late than never. Here's my best attempt at a list. I can't make an ordered list, so I am listing a Top 3, which are above the others to me, then the remaining 7. Adam can score them however he wants.

The Top 3
The Dead Girl
The Fountain
Pan's Labyrinth


The Other 7
The Proposition
Volver
Children of Men
Perfume: The Story of a Murderer
Little Children
The Bridge
Sweet Land


I know at least three of these (The Proposition, The Bridge and Sweet Land) can be considered previous years. I am going by their first non-festival presentation in the US. I'm extremely disappointed I don't see The Dead Girl on anyone else's list, but maybe I missed someone.

The Single Worst movie of the year
Pirates of the Caribbean: BrainDead Man's Chest - This is actually the only movie I gave up on. Funny it is on so many Top 10s.
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