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post #31 of 280
2/14/07 at 9:32am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandL
Lets hope Fall of The Roman Empire is released with a aspect ratio of 2.76:1 to show the full frame of Ultra Panavsion. Ben-Hur, Mutiny on the Bounty, The Greatest Story Ever Told and Battle of The Bulge have been released properly with this aspect ratio. It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, Hallelujah Trail and Khartoum are around 2.35:1 on DVD. It was annouced in another thread that Raintree County will be released mid 2007.

Mad World is 2.55:1, which is correct for the general release 35mm scope prints (and the usually projected UP aspect ratio).
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post #32 of 280
2/14/07 at 1:26pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Regarding the Ultra Panavision format that FOTRE was shot in:

There is some discussion as to whether the not so favorable previews of Fall were the reason for this movie "only" to be released as a flat print, so this is one reason for asking whether the flat prints were intended from the beginning or if they indeed represented a change of plans later in the production/release chain.

Another point is that I do think that especially the outdoor scenes in the Roman forums are a bit cramped at times and the other question is of course why at all go from Technirama 70 to Ultra Panavision when flat 70 mm prints were planned from the beginning ?
After three previous Super Technirama 70 productions this doesn't make sense to me....

In any case I look forward to the Bronston Epics and Land of the Pharaohs and I hope very much that we will see them released both as SD and HD versions - these movies would gain a lot from a high definition presentation.
EMPIRE opened in London to rave reviews. The prints were spherical not anamorphic 70mm.A week later it opened in New YORK to very poor reviews and box office.Its reception would have had no effect on the type of print that would have been ordered and checked well before any opening.

My hunch as to why Ultra was chosen was that at one stage a "Cinerama" release was contemplated and when Empire went into production that was the way to go.There was a lot of buzz in the industry about the new single lens Cinerama.Also processing facilities in Europe for 65mm had only just started up-the 70 mm Lawrence prints had to come from L.A. Technirama was basically a 35mm process .This was a great advantage in the late '50's -early 60's but also one of the reasons its popularity started to fade from '63 onwards as "pure"65/70 became available.
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post #33 of 280
2/14/07 at 10:54pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by john a hunter
EMPIRE opened in London to rave reviews. The prints were spherical not anamorphic 70mm.A week later it opened in New YORK to very poor reviews and box office.Its reception would have had no effect on the type of print that would have been ordered and checked well before any opening.

I know that the movie was well received and more of a success in Europe but I was referring to PREviews and decisions that were made BEFORE the London premiere.

The funny thing is that apparently this was a rather successful movie outside of the US, but its box office failure in the US is the predomoniant impression that remains today with regard to its commercial success.
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post #34 of 280
2/15/07 at 6:31am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
The funny thing is that apparently this was a rather successful movie outside of the US, but its box office failure in the US is the predomoniant impression that remains today with regard to its commercial success.

It also got a lot of negative reviews in the U.S. A few critics saw it for the intelligent epic it is, but most panned it.
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post #35 of 280
2/15/07 at 6:47am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Anthony
Having watched both Ben Hur & B of the Bulge at 2.76:1 on my 82" screen I'm afraid I disagree that "The ultra-wide 2.76 aspect ratio, even when viewed on a large wide-screen monitor, results in a tiny image and diminishes a film's impact."

On the contrary, IMO the ultra-wide image makes it stand out from the crowd of normal 'scope production and makes it feel far more cinematic and gives it a sense of grandeur.
There's plenty of others with screen's far bigger than mine too, that i'm sure would agree.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Anthony
Cropping a 2.76:1 picture to 2.2 is, IMO, the same as panning & scaning any other format (how many people have complained about scope films P&S to 16:9 on widescreen TV broadcasts - the amount of picture lost is almsot the same as 2.7 to 2.2) or to use another favourite with purists akin to remixiing a mono track and not including the original...

Mark, let me second what you say here! My 38 inch widescreen HDTV is obviously much smaller than the 82" screen you mention in your post. Yet both "Ben-Hur" and "Mutiny On The Bounty" look spectacular on it.

As to the notion of cropping Ultra-Panavision down to Super Panavision size for home theatre release, to fill more of the widescreen TV, isn't that the same argument pan and scan lovers used as to why they wanted 2.40:1 films cropped down for standard shaped TV's? Personally, back before I owned a widescreen set, I was so happy to finally have ultra wide "Ben-Hur" in it's OAR that I didn't mind watching it even on my 27" standard TV.
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post #36 of 280
2/15/07 at 7:31am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Here's another vote for an Ultra Panavision release for Fall (and hopefully Raintree County).

I watched Ultra Panavision movies on 20, 100, and 122" wide screens and always prefer that to the option to crop it down to fill more screen real estate.

2.55 would still be acceptable though and was probably the AR of many theatrical releases.
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post #37 of 280
2/15/07 at 7:35pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

[quote=OliverK]I know that the movie was well received and more of a success in Europe but I was referring to PREviews and decisions that were made BEFORE the London premiere.

Paramount were talking 50 odd 70mm prints BEFORE the London Premiere for its US release which would have been underway if not ready by the time of its New York premiere.The theatres would have been booked and a release plan worked out. If it had been" Cinerama-ed", I expect the prints would have been anamorphic, but that was not the release strategy and as the theatres booked used standard 70mm, they would have and did, use spherical 70 prints. The poor reviews resulted in cutting back the release and prints, not suddenly scraping anamorphic prints and replacing them.
I just hope we get a HD DVD release in the next few months. If it's the full Ultra Pan ratio, at least we'll be seeing more than was ever seen before which is much better than seeing zero which is what we have had to put up with since the old laser disc for some 10 years .
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post #38 of 280
3/14/07 at 3:04pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Land of the Pharoahs is due June 26. Digital Bits say Warner Bros has announced a set titled "Cult Camp Classics: Historical Epics" comprisiong, Colossus of Rhodes, The Prodigal and Land of the Pharoahs.
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post #39 of 280
5/14/07 at 1:53am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Any more news about El Cid and the others? I'm watching it on LD and, man, Hi-Def has sure ruined up LD upconversion for me.
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post #40 of 280
5/27/07 at 1:53am
Thread Starter 

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Confirmation is here:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4595290&EDATE=
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post #41 of 280
5/27/07 at 2:05am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Mixed feelings about this. Great that these Bronston epics will finally see a DVD release but I have my doubts that the Weinstein brothers will give us the complete roadshow treatment (overture, intermission, entr'acte, exit music) that their laser disc counterparts did. Probably just the movie proper, in which case I'm hanging on to my laser discs.
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post #42 of 280
5/27/07 at 3:55am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Well I only have the Bronston epics on tape so I'm looking forward to them. Hopefully a 2007 release?
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post #43 of 280
5/27/07 at 10:36am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Posted by Thomas T: Mixed feelings about this. Great that these Bronston epics will finally see a DVD release but I have my doubts that the Weinstein brothers will give us the complete roadshow treatment (overture, intermission, entr'acte, exit music) that their laser disc counterparts did. Probably just the movie proper, in which case I'm hanging on to my laser discs.

If EL CID is released in anmorphic OAR with DD sound, I have no mixed feelings at all-it will rock! The laserdisc is probably something to hang onto in any case, because it is Criterion and has special features (Heston interview, Mann overview, Mann interviews, screenwriter interview, Miklos Rozsa interview and analysis, etc) that will likely never make it to DVD. FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE only included the overture, intermission, etc you alluded to. I will hang onto it as well in case they are not included on the DVDs.

However, for watching the films, the DVDs will almost certainly be the way to go. FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE in particular has a bad case of jagglies in any of the scenes in Rome, due to all the steps and columns, etc that figure in the City of Rome. It will be great to see a detailed anamorphic version.
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post #44 of 280
5/27/07 at 11:22am
Thread Starter 

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas T
Mixed feelings about this. Great that these Bronston epics will finally see a DVD release but I have my doubts that the Weinstein brothers will give us the complete roadshow treatment (overture, intermission, entr'acte, exit music) that their laser disc counterparts did. Probably just the movie proper, in which case I'm hanging on to my laser discs.


The Press Release says these will be deluxe releases so I think (and hope) that these will be complete Roadshow versions with extras.
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post #45 of 280
6/11/07 at 6:02am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas R
Land of the Pharoahs is due June 26. Digital Bits say Warner Bros has announced a set titled "Cult Camp Classics: Historical Epics" comprisiong, Colossus of Rhodes, The Prodigal and Land of the Pharoahs.


4 years ago Channel 4 tv in the UK showed a 2.35:1 print of Land of the Pharoahs. I only have it on video unfortunately as I had no dvd recorder then, and subsequent showings have been cropped down to 1.85:1. Hope the dvd isn't vanilla and has some extras on. I've always had a soft spot for this movie too, like Scorcese.
I've also always loved "Helen of Troy", directed by future Sound of Music man Robert Wise. And only Cedric Hardwicke could have got away with saying the line "The face that launched a thosand ships" and make it sound as if nobody had ever said it before! Of course this has already had a great dvd release!
And I cannot wait for El Cid and FOTRE in full wide screen!
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post #46 of 280
6/11/07 at 3:44pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Christou
Well I only have the Bronston epics on tape so I'm looking forward to them. Hopefully a 2007 release?

Yes, hopefully.
Any plans for a HTF Q&A with somebody from the Weinstein company ?

I would also like to know if there are plans for these on high-def. They surely would look spectacular enough !
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post #47 of 280
6/11/07 at 4:35pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

When I watched LAND OF THE PHAROAHS on TCM recently, it seemed that half the time Joan Collin's voice was dubbed by someone else. If I'm not hallucinating, why would this have been?
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post #48 of 280
6/12/07 at 2:58am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Linfesty
When I watched LAND OF THE PHAROAHS on TCM recently, it seemed that half the time Joan Collin's voice was dubbed by someone else. If I'm not hallucinating, why would this have been?

It's definitely been Joan's voice when I've seen the film. No idea why they would do it as a seperate edition.
Perhaps you forget, like Joan herself, :-) that the film dates from the 50s!
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post #49 of 280
6/15/07 at 8:52am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

I can't wait for El Cid - it is number one on my "wanted" list. I will definitely enjoy throwing out my VHS copy.
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post #50 of 280
6/15/07 at 9:21am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
If I'm not hallucinating, why would this have been?

It may be that they post-dubbed some scenes (with JC's voice), and they may not have matched the timbre well or synched it properly.

Quote:
I can't wait for El Cid - it is number one on my "wanted" list.

It's at the top of mine, too. There are still titles I am waiting for, and some may be better films, but EL CID Still leads my list.
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post #51 of 280
6/15/07 at 9:46am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B_K
It may be that they post-dubbed some scenes (with JC's voice), and they may not have matched the timbre well or synched it properly.

Very true, technology has moved on a lot since then. Even in the late 80s I did ADR for a movie I edited and the sound mixer in the later dub did such a good job nobody realised it wasn't the original.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B_K
It's at the top of mine, too. There are still titles I am waiting for, and some may be better films, but EL CID Still leads my list.


A magazine in the UK "DVD Review" has just dropped through my letter box containing a piece about the Weinsteins releasing 'El Cid' as one of a raft of titles starting off their new venture. Unforunately there is a rumour that they will slice the movie in two and issue it as 2 dvds! I trust this is just someone's idea of a bad joke!!!
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post #52 of 280
6/15/07 at 9:56am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Just watched The Fall of the Roman Empire----absolutely hideous on a 53" Sony so didn't watch it projected at 92". Great enjoyment anyway. I love epics. Have El Cid non--anamorphic and it is not as bad in terms of artifacts. Saw it in the theater when it came out and remember it vividly as an extremely impressive cinema experience.
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post #53 of 280
6/15/07 at 11:28am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

I'm quite certain another woman's voice was used for Joan in several scenes, as the second woman's voice is downright bassy like Marlene Dietrich or Lauren Bacall. In one scene you here Joan's natural clipped British tones one minute, and the next it's a deep American accent. I think what happened was probably had to do with studio politics. Joan Collins did Land of the Pharoahs while on loanout to Warners from her home studio of 20th Century-Fox. Perhaps during post-production she was no longer available for looping some scenes as she was back working at Fox. Well, that's my theory.
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post #54 of 280
6/15/07 at 1:35pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Marsh
Just watched The Fall of the Roman Empire----absolutely hideous on a 53" Sony so didn't watch it projected at 92". Great enjoyment anyway. I love epics. Have El Cid non--anamorphic and it is not as bad in terms of artifacts. Saw it in the theater when it came out and remember it vividly as an extremely impressive cinema experience.


Oh yes, El Cid in the cinema! Remember the seige tower going over the camera and the stereo sound that went with it? Wonderful stuff.
FOTRE always got bogged down for me in the religious sub plot involving James Mason and those Germans, and was glad Gladiator left that out. Odd isn't it, how so few critics picked up on the storyline similarity? Marcus Aurelius in a tent, or sitting on a throne watching thousands of governors and princes and kings galloping up to do him homage? No contest really as in FOTRE you get the battle against the Germans as well!
I'd love to see both FOTRE and El Cid restored and shown digitally on an Imax screen! Now that would be fantastic! I took a friend to see the restored Spartacus at London's biggest screen. He'd only ever seen it on tv and was so grateful I'd forced him to go as he admitted it is an amazing film and he'd never really seen it before!

Oh, and may I ask - a 92" what, Bill?
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post #55 of 280
6/15/07 at 6:17pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
FOTRE always got bogged down for me in the religious sub plot involving James Mason and those Germans, and was glad Gladiator left that out.


I liked the stuff with Mason and the Germans. Partly because Mason was so good in the film. One reason (maybe) why this sort of stuff was left out of GLADIATOR was because GLADIATOR had a more interesting hero than FOTRE. Stephen Boyd was a good enough actor, but his part is rather underwritten, and there is little for him to do, other than act noble.

In GLADIATOR, the hero is terribly wronged, and the movie is basically about his attempt to revenge himself on Commodus. In FOTRE, Boyd is so noble that Commodus has no need to wrong him-Boyd declares him undoubted Caesar!

But then, FOTRE was attempting to show the rot that led to the Fall of the empire. GLADIATOR was simply attempting to tell a rattling good revenge/war/gladiator story. Both are good in different ways. I think Anthony Mann's mastery of widescreen composition is more evident in FOTRE than in any other of his films.
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post #56 of 280
6/19/07 at 2:07pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Anyone notice in any of the news articles when they plan on starting to release these movies, specifically El Cid?

Thanks
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post #57 of 280
6/20/07 at 6:30am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

one review on the net says that both Land of the Pharoahs and the Prodigal are 2.0 stereo.

Why did warners NOT give us the original 4.0 stereo?
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post #58 of 280
6/20/07 at 6:45am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Just taken delivery of a French dvd release of Fall of The Roman Empire. Gorgeous colour, clean print, great sound. Full 2.35:1 so for the first time since I saw it in the theatre I can see the whole forum and all the crowd. A treat until the new one arrives with loads of extras ( one hopes!).
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post #59 of 280
6/20/07 at 6:57am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

ptb2007----92" projector screen driven with a Panasonic AE700 projector

My copy of FOTRE is terrible so would look worse at 92"

If your new copy is good and anamorphic let me know---my OPPO is setup to be region-free so can play any regions disc
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post #60 of 280
6/20/07 at 7:27am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Just taken delivery of a French dvd release of Fall of The Roman Empire.

I bought a region 2 French version of EL CID (or rather LE CID) a couple of years ago. It was anamorphic, and decent looking, but it did not have an option to turn off the French subtitles, and my all-region player could not turn them off. The only way to get rid of them was to burn a copy and leave off the subtitles. Is your FOTRE simillarly afflicted?
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