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post #121 of 280
12/20/07 at 3:54am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
The picture quality is indeed horrible at times and there is no excuse for this except for the case that all film based material for this movie was lost which I find highly improbable.
Obviously the Camp Classics was a pretty budget line, so it seems they just used the same Inter-Positives that had been made for TV / VHS and/or LaserDisc transfers. It is pretty obvious to that the Land of the Pharaoh's element was poorly made, the quality of the DVD is unlike any other 1955 CinemaScope DVD I can think of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
So Warner has obviously decided to release this one the cheap and easy way, but it does not work with epic movies - too much fine detail in the original elements mercilessly expose weak transfers.
I agree, I guess the problem is that Land of the Pharaoh's just doesn't have the best reputation. Even though I think it is a much better film than many other more lauded epics such as The Robe. It is kind of the same deal with Warner's DVD of The Naked Spur.


DVD


LaserDisc


DVD stretched to 2.55:1

I have no idea if any of this is more conclusive! The LaserDisc is obviously very heavily cropped, but notice that the DVD only shows more on the left edge, the right edges show about the same.

The pyramid building sequence is one of the best of all sequences in any epic film. The 360 degree panning shot is just astonishing, they sure made movies back then :-P

I'm very much looking forward to El Cid. Here's hoping it is a King of Kings quality 2.21:1 transfer from a Technirama element.
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post #122 of 280
12/20/07 at 8:16am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Simon,

great screenshots and I also think they probably used the same master as for the LD now that I know there was one. Overall the LD almost looks nicer to me as it is less edgy and overblown looking although it is also softer.

Let's just say that I cannot comment on the pyramid building sequences yet as I refuse to suffer the picture of Land of the Artefacts as I shall call it from now on

I am not so sure what to expect from El Cid, not trying to get my hopes too high there. One thing is pretty sure though - the chance that any technirama elements where used to do the master for El Cid is close to zero. Hopefully they at least worked with the 35mm elements created for the 1994 rerelease.

If this release is really HD I might even consider to invest in a third HD format:
NME Store

Oliver
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post #123 of 280
12/20/07 at 2:17pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Rank always seemed to have good prints of the Bronston films. Their 70mm print of TFOTRE was the sharpest 70mm I have ever seen and I have seen a lot over the years.Given this and that it is a first release from Weinstein on their new label, I am keeping my hopes up for El Cid from a good source.

Yes, Land is pretty poor and Warners couldn't even give us 3 or 4 Track stereo.However, I don't know what player you are using but the new Reon processors in a lot of recent players including my Tosh HD DVD works wonders. My version of Robe was unwatchable looking as though filmed in a sea of grain the size of snowballs. All gone, much sharper and no wavy lines after the REon worked its magic.

Give one a try for Christmas, OliverK.
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post #124 of 280
12/20/07 at 5:54pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

John,

thanks for confirming again what I have previously heard from others who said that TFOTRE was among the best they'd ever seen - that must have been a sight to behold back when you saw it ! But for that to make it to the screen one would have to dig deeper than others have done as so far. I am pretty sure everything out there has been sourced from a Technicolor print as evidenced by the color registration errors in current DVD versions.

Regarding the Reon: I have seen what it can do in the Mitsubishi Full HD projectors - it is good but it cannot turn a sow's ear into a silk purse

Oliver
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post #125 of 280
1/7/08 at 12:35pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Savant mentions on his DVDTalk page that Weinstein has scheduled The Fall of the Roman Empire for April 29th...
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post #126 of 280
1/7/08 at 8:00pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinéKarine
Savant mentions on his DVDTalk page that Weinstein has scheduled The Fall of the Roman Empire for April 29th...

Excellent. Hopefully it is from an Ultra Panavision element, and I hope they do a Limited Edition box like they have done for El Cid.
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post #127 of 280
1/8/08 at 3:40am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
Excellent. Hopefully it is from an Ultra Panavision element, and I hope they do a Limited Edition box like they have done for El Cid.

Do we have a date yet for 'El Cid'?
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post #128 of 280
1/8/08 at 5:08am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptb2007
Do we have a date yet for 'El Cid'?

Yes, both special editions of El Cid are coming January 29th
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post #129 of 280
1/8/08 at 8:01am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
Excellent. Hopefully it is from an Ultra Panavision element, and I hope they do a Limited Edition box like they have done for El Cid.

As of last year it looked like Weinstein did not take these movies too seriously but it has taken some time for Weinstein to put them out there and I take this as a good sign. Hopefully they changed their minds about the elements they used, at least all transfers should be derived from 35mm elements and not from digibeta masters.
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post #130 of 280
1/8/08 at 10:37am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

What makes you say the Weinstein's wouldn't have taken these movies seriously, at any point?

Given that there hasn't been an anamorphic OAR, multichannel surround release of decent quality anywhere in the world for any of the 4 Epic's, they're wouldn't have been a suitable digibeta master to use...

...especially if they are planning on releasing on high-def too at some point, which would be a no-brainer given the small size of their catalogue and how much of showcase these titles could be

M
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post #131 of 280
1/8/08 at 1:31pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

[quote=Mark Anthony]What makes you say the Weinstein's wouldn't have taken these movies seriously, at any point?

Given that there hasn't been an anamorphic OAR, multichannel surround release of decent quality anywhere in the world for any of the 4 Epic's, they're wouldn't have been a suitable digibeta master to use...

...especially if they are planning on releasing on high-def too at some point, which would be a no-brainer given the small size of their catalogue and how much of showcase these titles could be


Now that the HD format war has just about ended, with any luck, the Weinstein's will see fit to provide us with a Blu-ray version of the Bronston spectaculars. I fondly remember seeing beautifully projected 70mm prints of FOTRE & El Cid when they were first released. I also saw El Cid presented in 35mm on a smaller screen and was amazed at how much of the visual impact was lost in translation.
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post #132 of 280
1/8/08 at 2:11pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Anthony
What makes you say the Weinstein's wouldn't have taken these movies seriously, at any point?

Given that there hasn't been an anamorphic OAR, multichannel surround release of decent quality anywhere in the world for any of the 4 Epic's, they're wouldn't have been a suitable digibeta master to use...

Let's just say that I know there are some digibeta masters and that somebody asked for them, suitable or not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Anthony

...especially if they are planning on releasing on high-def too at some point, which would be a no-brainer given the small size of their catalogue and how much of showcase these titles could be

M

I hope for this as much as you do, but for now will wait for how the SD version of El Cid looks before I get my hopes too high.
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post #133 of 280
1/8/08 at 9:41pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

I'm probably the contrarian, but I'm can't wait for Circus World to be released. I love John Wayne and I don't think it is as bad of a movie as everyone seems to think. However I have a feeling that it will likely be the last one released if at all since it does not have a great reputation.
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post #134 of 280
1/8/08 at 10:30pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Let's just say that I know there are some digibeta masters and that somebody asked for them, suitable or not

Ouch, I really hope I didn't pay AUD$30 for something that isn't a new film transfer.
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post #135 of 280
1/8/08 at 11:18pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancisP
I'm probably the contrarian, but I'm can't wait for Circus World to be released. I love John Wayne and I don't think it is as bad of a movie as everyone seems to think. However I have a feeling that it will likely be the last one released if at all since it does not have a great reputation.

From what I know Circus World was the least commercially and critically successful movie of the 4 and it finally sealed the demise of the Bronston Empire so there you have 4 reasons for it coming last
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post #136 of 280
1/8/08 at 11:24pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
Ouch, I really hope I didn't pay AUD$30 for something that isn't a new film transfer.

Me too, but I ordered the version with the lobby cards and the nice box so at least it will look great on the shelf if not on the screen
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post #137 of 280
1/9/08 at 2:25am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

I hope that worst case scenario is that the master from the Criterion laserdisc is used. But that must be at least 12 years old; one would hope that they have searched out the best elements available and made a fresh restoration from them.g
Still, just over a couple of weeks and all will be revealed
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post #138 of 280
1/9/08 at 2:26am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
From what I know Circus World was the least commercially and critically successful movie of the 4 and it finally sealed the demise of the Bronston Empire so there you have 4 reasons for it coming last


It also had a lot to do with the fortune Bronston had already spent on his "Isabella of Spain" and "The French Revolution" projects when his backers pulled out.
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post #139 of 280
1/9/08 at 3:11am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptb2007
It also had a lot to do with the fortune Bronston had already spent on his "Isabella of Spain" and "The French Revolution" projects when his backers pulled out.

I did not know he already sank so much money into those, I was under the impression Isabella of Spain was planned for production when Bronston tried to stage a comeback in the early 70ies.

We need a book on the Bronston Empire and/or a documentary - that would surely be fascinating.
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post #140 of 280
1/9/08 at 3:14am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

[quote=Jon Lidolt]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Anthony
I fondly remember seeing beautifully projected 70mm prints of FOTRE & El Cid when they were first released. I also saw El Cid presented in 35mm on a smaller screen and was amazed at how much of the visual impact was lost in translation.

Oh yes, me too! Giant screen, fantastic sound (remember when the seige tower goes over the camera and you felt as if you really were under it?) sharp focus? You only get that in the cinemas these days from a digital projection.
I wouldn't go to see the 35mm general release in London as they used to butcher the films to get 3 performances a day in at my local. Cleopatra had an hour missing! Oh, and that is a much better movie than a lot of people seem to think. The 3 disc special edition is one of my treasures. Admittedly Elizabeth can be annoying at times, but she can also be very moving ('Anthony, wait" near the end). I'd love to see the missing three hours that was in the first cut, including a battle apparently!
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post #141 of 280
1/9/08 at 3:22am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Sharp
I hope that worst case scenario is that the master from the Criterion laserdisc is used. But that must be at least 12 years old; one would hope that they have searched out the best elements available and made a fresh restoration from them.g
Still, just over a couple of weeks and all will be revealed

Fo future comparison purposes here is a screenshot from the best current version that is available a a PAL DVD. It is already vastly superior to the LD version which is only so-so with regard to PQ but it has noticable registration problems, the same goes for Fall of the Roman Empire
.
So better than the LD it has to be but obviously I want it to be better than this, too - I already have that quality as it is

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post #142 of 280
1/9/08 at 3:54am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
I did not know he already sank so much money into those, I was under the impression Isabella of Spain was planned for production when Bronston tried to stage a comeback in the early 70ies.

We need a book on the Bronston Empire and/or a documentary - that would surely be fascinating.

I noticed this book on Bronston on Amazon.com when looking for a books on Anthony Mann. I didn't buy it though, so no idea if it is any good.
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post #143 of 280
1/9/08 at 3:57am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Fo future comparison purposes here is a screenshot from the best current version that is available a a PAL DVD. It is already vastly superior to the LD version which is only so-so with regard to PQ but it has noticable registration problems, the same goes for Fall of the Roman Empire
.
So better than the LD it has to be but obviously I want it to be better than this, too - I already have that quality as it is


Which version is this from as it's the first time I've seen the 70mm frame more or less accurately reproduced!
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post #144 of 280
1/9/08 at 4:48am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
I noticed this book on Bronston on Amazon.com when looking for a books on Anthony Mann. I didn't buy it though, so no idea if it is any good.

Simon,

thanks for the link, what a nice surprise ! I looked a few months ago and nothing about Samuel was released as of then.

And as I have not looked it up for about the same time I was even happier to see that the book by Basinger on Mann has finally made it to paperback - wow and wow again !

Oliver (who is busy now ordering books)
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post #145 of 280
1/9/08 at 5:05am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptb2007
Which version is this from as it's the first time I've seen the 70mm frame more or less accurately reproduced!

This is a transfer that has been used for both the second German edition of El Cid and the French coffret Anthony Mann. The French version comes together with Fall and a third DVD that has some mostly french extras about both movies. So far it was the best package in which to get these two movies, both have stereo sound and an AR of roughly 2.35. I suspect the master to be derived from separates and/or Technicolor elements as there are color fringing issues with both movies. The AR is close to 2.35 as the master is from standard 35mm elements and not the horizontal Technirama elements, the same goes for Fall that clearly is not from the UP70 elements.

There are at least two more versions of El Cid and Fall out there that are in 2.35 AR and probably go back to the same master but both are inferior to these in PQ.

As you can see this is not really a bad DVD and would be considered pretty good if not for the alignment issues that plague it in other scenes. Most people might actually be happy to get this quality in an NTSC version and with R1 region code, after all most reviewers were pretty happy even with Land of the Pharaos
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post #146 of 280
1/9/08 at 4:47pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
And as I have not looked it up for about the same time I was even happier to see that the book by Basinger on Mann has finally made it to paperback - wow and wow again !
Yes that's the one I ordered, along with Foster Hirsch's book on Otto Preminger.

The good news is... (drum roll)

My copy of El Cid: Limited Edition shipped over night from DVDPacific.com!

So for anyone dying to get it, it seems that DVDPacific have some copies, even though their webpage still says pre-order.
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post #147 of 280
1/9/08 at 6:42pm

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

For those of you in the Washington DC area: The AFI Silver is having a special HD digital screening of the restored EL CID on Monday January 28th in conjunction with the release of the dvd. I have no idea what the quality will be like, but may be a rare chance of see it on a large screen. I notice there is also a screening, not sure of the date, at the Cinerama Dome in LA. Check the AFI site for details.

Also---not sure if anyone has noted it in here, but FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE is coming from Weinstein dvd in late April.
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post #148 of 280
1/10/08 at 12:02am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Howson
Yes that's the one I ordered, along with Foster Hirsch's book on Otto Preminger.

The good news is... (drum roll)

My copy of El Cid: Limited Edition shipped over night from DVDPacific.com!

So for anyone dying to get it, it seems that DVDPacific have some copies, even though their webpage still says pre-order.

Wow Wow WOW ! Man, am I excited

Living abroad it will take me some time to get this so I would be VERY pleased if you could post some screenshots once you get it.

The AFI screening is of course a good indicator that this is a substantial effort on behalf of Weinstein, I hope somebody will be able to attend the screening of the new HD version and report back to us.

Regarding the Preminger book: Saw it but could not bring myself to order it just yet, probably the same as with you and the Bronston book
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post #149 of 280
1/10/08 at 12:17am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim*Tod
For those of you in the Washington DC area: The AFI Silver is having a special HD digital screening of the restored EL CID on Monday January 28th in conjunction with the release of the dvd. I have no idea what the quality will be like, but may be a rare chance of see it on a large screen. I notice there is also a screening, not sure of the date, at the Cinerama Dome in LA. Check the AFI site for details.

They also show it at the Arclight in Hollywood on the same day. But from the AFI site it is not clear whether it will be the HD version or a 35mm print (I am not so bold to dream of a Super Technirama 70 print). It will be interesting to see if the efforts for the new HD master also will also bring us a new film print of El Cid.

Great find and hopefully the HD version will find its way to Blu-Ray soon, the movie deserves nothing less.
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post #150 of 280
1/10/08 at 12:34am

Re: Bronston epics and Land of the Pharaohs coming at last!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Wow Wow WOW ! Man, am I excited

Living abroad it will take me some time to get this so I would be VERY pleased if you could post some screenshots once you get it.
I usually get my parcels from DVDPacific 7 days after I receive the shipment confirmation. So hopefully by this time next week I'll have it.

I'll certainly put up some screen captures, especially a comparison with the capture already in this thread.
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