Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info - Page 13

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Getting more interesting. When I got my replacement discs I was excited to watch using the DD2.0 mix but after about 20 to 30 minutes of the bleeding it got fatiguing and dissapointing so I switched to the DD5.1 mix.

BOT:
BTW, yep I was aware how the matrix decoding in DPL2/2x handles L+/R+ and phase (servos to match levels and using feedback logic design) differs from DPL's handling (non-feedback logic design) causing the soundtrack to sound different between them.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Well... I can't help but be disappointed. I think it's now fair to say that this re-mastered disc/set IS STILL botched. Not sure if I should pounce on the set when it's re-issued later this month or wait for the THIRD attempt by WB to get this right - say, roughly, Christmas?

I don't fancy relying on yet another recall after seeing the scuffed state of the last replacement disc I was sent by WB!

JR

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Hi, sorry I was offline due to PC issues - here's an up date. I've had several conversations with Michael Thau. He was finally able to check out the DVD for himself. He found it to be just as he states the sound stems were in the studio. He also stated that he DID NOT use the 70mm 6-track audio mix, but instead Left/Right Mix. This track pulled from the UK vaults were others elements were stored. I told him something is STILL wrong. It shouldn't sound the way does, and to my recollection the Laser release 2.0 was better. Although he doubts me he is now on a search in obtaining the laser disc and hope to rent a player. I am trying to find my copy which was packed away. I've spoked to the producer, Ilya Salkind, and he too is trying locate his laser copy. I haven't used my Laser player in such a long time I hope it still works if I find the disc! If I do and it all checks out I'm hoping to dupe scene onto a DVD and forward it to Mr. Thau. My suggestion to Mr. Thau is that I doubt back when the laserdisc was master WB went all the way to the UK for elements. I told him they probably used elements in the vault in LA where the mastering was done. It is possible that what was pulled from the UK is either not complete, or alternate mix -perhaps one done for TV telecast prior to 5.1 and broadcast Dolby Stereo where it wouldn't matter at the time if it were out of phase since back then most people didn't have decoders/home theater set-ups. Ilya Salkind tends to agree with this as well. Ilya also stated that the film had a center and did adhere to the Dolby Standard and went on stating the film made the front cover of a Dolby Labs trade publication in its day.
So that's where it stands for now. Michael Thau seem to want to hold to the way it sounds due to what he found. But at the same time at least he is open to not closing the door to the possibility that it may not be right. As things develop I will let you all know. Fingers crossed the Laserdisc will clear things up.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Okay, finally found my Laserdisc. I hooked up the ol'player and found that the 2.0 Dolby Surround on the Laserdisc is better than the new 2.0 on the replacement disc. It is as I remembered, a strong center channel.
This test was done via a Pioneer Laserdisc player and through a Sherbourn Decoder. I made the test in Dolby Pro-logic, PLII and PLII with matrix (where a rear is derived from the sides). The only echo, or reverb that are heard are ones made as effects. I tested the begining - the trail on Krypton and found Brando's voice stands out more in the center with a light echo in the surround. The more directness of the center channel allows the surround to stand out more when heard (the judges.) I also listened to Pa-Kent talk to Clark as they walk up the path. This is a very quiet scene prior to the music setting in and has only dialog which is a perfect test deleting any extra effects or possible reverb due to the setting.
I have no way of getting hold of Micahel Thau since he would not give me any contact number or email. Hopefully he will call soon so I can let him know. If I am able to burn scenes onto a DVD I will be willing to forward it to someone at WB as proof the replacement DVD still has a problem.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Great news. Maybe hopefully Ilya Salkind will notice the difference on his LD and make some contacts.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

So... is there a reason not to pick up the new improved tin?

And why on earth didn't they just give us the 70mm mix instead of the 2001 version since it is 5.1?

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Joel,
That's an interesting point. It seems with digging through the UK stored elements Michael Thau did indeed find the original 6-track 70mm sound mix - they also found unlike most 6-tracks of the day SUPERMAN had a split-surround (even in 6-track the rears were mono - basically a 4 track mix was used with two extra bass tracks) Why WB never considered using those elements I just don't know. Or even if Mr. Thau even pushed for them to be used? The point is whatever he did find and use for the DVD release is not the correct 2.0 mix. As I pointed out to him I really don't understand why he chose those when there must be a stored 2.0 mix in L.A. - which no doubt was used for the previous Laser and Beta/VHS releases. The obvious phase errors in his chosen mix can only suggest what he found may have been used, or meant for early stereo TV transmissions back in the 80's when stereo sound for TV was mostly made up of "fake" or cheaply rendered "expanded" mixes. It would explain why it's not decoding properly.
So, to answer your question about the "new and improved tin" - well, it's new alright. ...but improved, I think not. It's simply just another blunder.
Why is it that Mr. Thau seems to do less for anything associated with the original version of SUPERMAN? He even told me if he had his way he would have cut out the "Can you read my mind" segment complaining that it's too slow and the film is too long. Thankfully we were on the phone so he didn't see my expression.
BTW Joel - is your Dalek pic from the first Peter Cushing Dr. Who film, or the second?

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Niether, its from the original 1963 BBC version of The Daleks.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

It'll be interesting to see just how much WB cares about this now. To make a double blunder on a DVD is not unprecidented. Universal's first "fix" of Back To The Future III wasn't perfect. Mine froze about 40 mins before the end. So did many others. Universal did ANOTHER pressing, replaced my disc AGAIN and the 3rd disc was perfect. PLUS they sent out the replacements in sealed jewel cases so they were in perfect condition.

So far WB has sent one flawed disc in a crappy paper wallet causing the disc to be scuffed and marked. It'll be interesting to see what they do next.

John

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Universal has been producing a lot of defective discs, or ones that are hard to read on different machines for a while. In reviewing discs I've found problems with THE HAMMER HORROR COLLECTION, THE MUNSTERS 1st & 2nd SEASONS, and even THE NIGHT STALKER. These discs are very picky so far I've found the most even of ground with an OPPO - still there is one film, THE EVIL OF FRANKENSTEIN in the HAMMER set which still won't play thought without problems.

BTW - I forwarded my findings on SUPERMAN to my contact who first got me in touch with Mr. Thau but as of this writing have not heard from him. When I spoke to the film producer, Ilya Salkind, he wasn't surprised and stated he knew what I wrote was correct all a long. He remembers the film NOT sounding the way it does now on DVD. Monday I will be contacting persons at WB and see if this makes any headway. I still find it amazing that one person I was told to speak with still has not contacted me in over a month. In the past with my dealings with WB there were much more respectable people who were honest, and professional about their work. I've very disappointed by what is there now. I can only hope there are some bad apples who are slouching in their duties and I can get a professional who cares to listen.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

I think it would be in WB's best interests to POSTPONE and FIX the forthcoming re-issued set because another egg gets slapped in their face. I mean to put one flawed set out there (knowing there was a goof in advance) could be considered a misfortune, to put two out seems like carelessness.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Thank you, Hugo.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

so any idea to how "limited" this set is?

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Did anyone by chance pick up the new set that was released today? Out of curiousity, I was wondering if they changed the Look Up In the Sky disc art to match the one on the back for the corrected set.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Being away from this thread for a while (I stopped after reuqetsing the replacement discs), I felt some things should be clarified. THe split surround nature of Superman the Movie was never utilized in theatres at the time of the original release, nor was it really intended to. It was done to test the ability of a compatable 70mm print that could be used in both split and mono surround set-ups for the still to be released Apocalypse Now, the first film to use the Dolby split-surround format in actual public exhibition.

Also, at least in the 70mm mix of Superman (I can't verify the 35mm Dolby version), the entire first reel utilized completely directionalized dialog, a practice that had been dying out (Star Wars only used mono dialog). I seem to remember none of other reels doing this, though. (I saw this opening day at the Chinese in Hollywood). If the directional dialog is not there, than they aren't using the original mix.


Also, the sound quality of both the 35mm and 70mm prints of Superman II were pretty much muffled, like Dolby in reverse. So much for a specific standard as to how a Dolby film should sound (the prints, especially the 70mm ones, looked like crap as well).

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

I just bought the corrected set and the artwork for Look Up In the Sky doesn't match the others, so it doesn't look like they changed it.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Hadn't checked this thread in ages. I had called every day to get a replacement disc for the longest time and had given up because of busy lines and poor service. Because I wasn't sure that I would need the UPC code for the disc exchange, I never cut it out and sent for the posters, either. I just put in Superman: The Movie again and remembered about the disc replacements. Fortunately, I only need the theatrical S:TM replaced. My Superman III disc is the new one. I have a few questions.

Is there anyway to get the discs replaced by e-mail or a way other than calling the number? I know of several friends that had nightmares getting their discs replaced. Their information was taken down incorrectly, discs were sent to the wrong address, etc. I'd like to deal with this in a manner where my name and address are taken down without error.

Also, is the poster offer still good? I forgot to check the slip when I watched S:TM recently.

Lastly, would you recommend that I wait up on an exchange since it seems that there are also audio problems on the replacement copy?

Thanks,
Random

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

iam not sure whether i should go ahead and buy the superman set in the current 20% DDD sale or wait for the next sale.

i can wait on this set but then again it might go OOP before the end of the year since it's advertised as "limited"..so it would be really helpful if someone can confirm how "limited" it's.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

To me, it was a must buy.

Sometimes, money is irrelevant

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Just to chime in on the LaserDisc here -- it has possibly the worst sound in terms of quality and range of any disc in my collection. It is not some kind of holy grail.

edit:

I was just thinking, I can hook up the digital audio out from my LD player to my Mac and make a nice, accurate recording of a section of the film's audio and stick it somewhere on the internet, if people are really curious or if that would help.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

You missed the point as to why the Laserdisc was brought into this...
2.0 Dolby Surround is basic in the way it work. The fact remains the current DVD is not was it would be, in terms of the 2.0 mix.

I've heard again from Michael Thau who was able to locate a Laserdisc version of the film but he hasn't a player to test it with. He is sticking to his guns about the source materials he used/found, but is remaining open as to how the Laser would sound different, and more correct in terms of the Dolby System.

At this point it doesn't really matter since not many people care on this form, and ofr that matter niether doe WB. I've left several calls to persons I was told should know more about this but I suppose they don't care either. This is typical really from a studio how put more effort in SUPERMAN'S RETURNS, a film with a less than 50% rating of being liked upon release - than doing an Anniversary Edition of SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE which is considered a classic.
Contray to what some have stated here, the film's producer says the "corrected" 2.0 mix is wrong.
If I should hear anything more I will post but I rather doubt it since no one is moving forward is this.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

But realize that the LaserDisc sound is terrible because it's transferred from a poor source when that was not at all the norm for LaserDisc, a premium format. It sounds like it has come from an old theatrical print.

I guess what I'm saying is that they couldn't find good source material 15 years ago for the LaserDisc, so should we be surprised that after another decade and a half have passed that it wasn't any easier to find a good source?

Anyways -- would it help you (or anyone else who wants to hear it) if I put up a copy of an audio sequence from the LaserDisc, copied directly from the digital tracks?

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

I wish I had contacts at WB! There were a few mistakes with a dvd that I would like to let someone know about.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Has anyone here bought this set to find one of the DVD's are missing??? A buddy of mine just gave the set for an early Father's Day gift and one DVD is missing. It was shrinkwrapped, had the warner Bros. stickers on it...brand new! Just wonder who Warner Bros is using for packaging there releases?

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

I finally got it! HOOOOOOOOOOOOORAH!
No but my copy had its discs all out of order, which gave me some small cause for alarm since I remembered reading this post the other day.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Amazon has the Christopher Reeve Superman Collection for about $38 so I ordered it. Fortunately, it contains the correct SMIII disc (as expected), but it also contains the correct SM:TM (theatrical version) disc with the original '78 soundtrack.

I prefer the extended cut, but out of curiosity, I just thought I'd check, and there is no "whoosh" when Chris Reeve first takes flight right before the interior cab shot (I understand that means it's the correct sdtk).

So, it seems the defective discs have been (hopefully) flushed out of Amazon's stock. Quite franky, I'm a bit surprised- I thought it would take much longer.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

If the film is in mono up to the appearance of "Alexander Salkind Presents" its the right soundtrack.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

I was contacted by Michael Thau the other day.... Although he was able to get a copy of the laser he can't find access to player to make comparisions. However, he now feels it does not matter since he is only sticking to the sound elements he found in the UK. I told him he may have found them but there may be more than one mix. He stated this was the original 2.0 mix. I am still sticking to how Dolby Surround (2.0) should sound. I told him that the dialog leakage in the rears is annoying and would sound even worse in a large theatre - and that Dolby, at the time, wouldn't let something like that out. I also told him how Producer Ilya Salkind told me it shouldn't sound like that but when even I mention Ilya he get strangely quiet. It seems that the old Donner vs. Salkind thing still rears its ugly head. So I asked if Richard Donner remembered - the response was "No". Truthfully I don't think Mr. Donner cares. He has he newer mix and that's all he wants. With Mr. Thau working so tigtly with Donner I don't think he was the wisest of choices to work on anything but what Donner wants. He moments of silence and refusal to even approach Ilya Salkind wreaks of unprofessionalism. I've worked within the industry as a special products consultant and that's not the way to do it. I job is a a job and requires open minded attention. I think sometimes there are those who work on these things who carry baggage with them and forget that people are going to be using hard earned money to make a purchase. There is no room for petty and old grudges.
I offered again to burn a dvd from the laser just so he could hear the difference, now he is turning it down. He also wanted me to drop what I'm saying and no longer state that WB made a mistake. ...that's not going to happen. Even with the limited range of the laserdisc it still is decoding the proper way. I told him with laser being such a limited section of the then market WB wouldn't have gone to the UK for mastering elements. Which means they got it from the L.A. vaults. So if they got it from a theatrical print then that's the way it sounded in the theatre - which means he may have found an alternate mix, or an early mix. I know several differently mixed scenes for THE TEN COMMANDMENTS were found when that film was being restored. It's just the nature of the beast. He doesn't want to see that. He only is going by what he found. That's not the way a consultant should work. He needs to me more of a historian and decective in order to uncover the right materials. But I feel his connection with Donner is limiting his judgment.

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Hi

I'm in the UK and bought the defective set on release.

I have rung WHV three times now and they just give me a hotmail address to e-mail my details to which I have done several times, the third time I rang the woman said it wasn't Warners and put the phone down on me!

All I want is replacements! Has anybody else managed to get replacements in the UK or know of an alternative contact method that may actually get me a response?

Help!

Thanks
Jim

Re: Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition, etc. Exchange Number and info

Did you buy the set from a US or UK retailer?