"The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works! - Page 9

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Exactly. And if you're going to use modern phrases like "babe of the week" and apply it to this show you've already dug yourself a hole at the onset because it was never the intent in "The Fugitive" or any other Quinn Martin production to purposefully introduce "eye candy" into every episode in case the story should happen to not grab the audience. Unlike what has been in vogue in television for the last 25 years.

Female actresses had to be attractive in the 50s and 60s, yes, more so than their male counterparts, a bias we carry to this day. But at least actresses were not the insipid drones we now have who sport cleavage and thigh in just about every shot in the crop of current shows. Quinn Martin was a keen observer of talent and insisted on getting the best his budget could afford, which is why exceptionally talented (and yes, pretty) actresses such as Suzanne Pleshette, Vera Miles and others were hired. But "The Fugitive", like so many other shows of its era also routinely showcased actresses who were far from the "cover girl" tv actresses that are ubiquitous today, women like Geraldine Brooks, Gail Kobe, Jacqueline Scott, etc.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I don't think he was referring so much to "eye candy", but to the ludicrous idea that Kimble would fall "in love" with such a quick succession of women week after week (in the early days). As he later said, if the "romantic interest" stories had been more spread out, it would've have seemed so silly, but then, it's quite possible (probable) that this is more the fault of the network, as the TV networks in those days wanted shows to be produced in such a way that they could be run in any order, so they often put what "they" thought were the best shows first, which wasn't always the case (NBC picking "The Man Trap" as the premiere for Star Trek being a prime example).



What shows have you been watching? I find that there are far more strong, realistic portrayals of women on TV now than during the '60s (or heck, even during the '70s and part of the '80s). The "strong female" is no longer confined to the older/homely/overweight/matronly (i.e. unattractive, or "character" actresses). Even the "pretty" ones can play strong, believable characters these days, and best I can recall, the women who were considered "strong" female types back in the '70s (think back to Charlie's Angels, Bionic Woman, Wonder Woman, etc.) were far less covered-up than the women on current TV dramas.

Now, if you are just talking about the women in Quinn Martin's shows, I'll give you that, but if you're implying that roles on TV for women were better in the '60s in general, you've got to be kidding! Even so-called "progressive" shows like Star Trek have some of the most chauvinistic portrayals of women of the time!

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Gary, why are you obsessed with the concept that you think I gave the show a negative review? I LIKED THE FRIGGING SHOW! I RECOMMENDED IT! What part of that don't you understand?

The snobbery and arrogance being bandied about here drives me up the wall. Basically Gary and some others think I can't review anything that came out before I was old enough to watch it first run or I can't "really appreciate it". That's absurd and insane.

My words have been twisted - such as the one that claims I didn't like the show's music - and some people here clearly have an agenda of some bizarre sort. Shouldn't you be HAPPY that folks of a younger generation can watch the show - and that one of us actually recommended it?

I appreciate that some folks really like the show - which is why I'm so puzzled that you're ANGRY I gave it a positive review! There's nothing "inherently wrong" with me reviewing this show - that's the worst kind of elitism. By that thought process, I can't review anything made before 1975 or so. That ain't gonna happen. My opinion is just as valid as anyone who just happens to be old enough to have seen the series first run...

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I "dug myself a hole" because I pointed out that the series used a similar theme in its first few episodes? "Babe of the week" had nothing to do with their looks, though obviously they weren't going to pair up Kimble with some hag. It had do to with the monotony of the theme - if every episode had Kimble fall in love with a new woman, the series would get old in a very rapid manner. It'd be preposterous as well as tiresome.

As I mentioned earlier, if they'd spread out those episodes across the whole season, they'd seem less ridiculous and distracting. The fact that they come in rapid succession makes them more noticeable and does harm to the show's impact.

Can even the rabid fanboys here argue it WASN'T silly to put all of those shows at the start? Yeah, I'm sure you will - any thought about the series that doesn't praise it to the hilt will be attacked here.

I'm REALLY REALLY sorry I ever bothered to post my review. I thought some folks would be happy to get an advance word about the set, but instead I've been attacked by people who can't see the forest for the trees. They're so damned proprietary about the show they don't want to let anyone else have access to it. This whole thread has become sad...

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Colin, why are you obsessed with my comments in particular? Between you and Andy, I'd think there's an agenda to jump down my throat. There have been numerous comments, by numerous posters, about your review and yet you continue to focus on me. I'm going to politely suggest you take a chill pill (as the old saying goes).

Bottom line - you posted a public review and I'm posting my thoughts on that review. Sure, at the end of the day you gave the show a recommendation for viewing, but along the way you stated many things that can be, and obviously were, taken as being negative. A few different posters have mentioned some of those comments (music only so-so; too many love interests too quickly; "after school specials"; not enough action; etc). Frankly, I'm shocked that you are shocked that some of us didn't care all that much for your review.

Gary "as I said before, I'm not going to get into a p***ing match with you or Andy over this - let's just move on" O.

P.S. One point that needs clarification. You state that I believe anyone not old enough to have seen the series on it's first run isn't qualified to review it. That's beyond ridiculous and not true at all. I was born in 1965 so I certainly didn't have a chance to watch the show during it's initial run. Fact is, I didn't discover the show until the early 90's when it was aired on A&E. My point was that you emphasized early in your review that the film version [i.e. the "action" one] was what you knew about the show before you viewed the dvds. You then seemed to base much of your likes and dislikes around that film. For instance, you didn't seem to like the fact that we don't see the origin until episode 14, while the film gives it to us right away. Your review just gave me the impression that you were looking for something in the series that you had found in the movie - and I thought that was unfair and unrealistic. But I'm certainly not suggesting that because you were born after the show aired that you can't review it properly. Not at all.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I dunno know, Gary...I'm no slouch either when it comes to being sniped at by the two posters.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Yeah, I guess I'm not being singled out as much as I thought. It's nice to know I'm not the only jerk in the thread.

Gary "I vow not to respond to any more of this sniping - I'm only going forward from this point on in the thread" O.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Well as someone born in the late 70s, I'm really excited about The Fugitive coming to DVD this month. I first watched the series in the early 90s on a Detroit station and mostly on A&E (back when it actually played "arts and entertainment") and I loved David Janssen's performances as Kimble. I only saw the film version because of my exposure to the television series (the film did a good job of modernizing the premise, but I still prefer the TV series).

Though I'm not happy with the split season sets, I'm confident The Fugitive will sell well enough to have the entire series released--I just hope it doesn't take four years. I've long since thrown away my handful of tapes from A&E broadcasts, so seeing the series again after so long will be a treat!

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Sniping? I was merely pointing out what I felt was some people here going a bit overboard in their criticism of a fellow user who gave an overall positive review but (shock, horror) dared to post the tiniest bit of criticism.

Gary, I have no agenda against you, Michael or anyone else, nor do I have any specific agenda go "back up" Colin, necessarily.

I certainly have my own favourite shows and I don't always agree with what others say, however I do acknowledge their right to opinion, whether I agree or not. I don't bitch and complain when someone posts criticisms of old shows that I like. In fact, I can see flaws in practically every television show I've ever watched. Does that mean I don't enjoy them? No, of course not!

Colin raised some valid points, and what a few people here seem to misunderstand is his review was positive! Your immediate dismissal of his opinions, just because they don't agree with yours, is what I find objectionable. I don't understand how you think that's a "personal attack", unless you're very "think skinned."

I guess another reason I "rose to the defence" is that some of these reactions to Colin's review come across as snobbish, rude and a bit "threadcrappy" (if were were over at DVDTalk). Surely, we're all more mature than that.


Let's hope we can all put this to rest now.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Have there been any reviews yet from people already familiar with the show who will know what music has been altered, or if any edits have been made?

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

If I've "focused" on you - which I don't think I have - it's because you continue to ignore all the positive things I said about the series and refer to my review as a negative one. You seem unwilling or unable to actually understand that I LIKE the show and you prefer to continue to make negative comments about me.

And you seem to ignore that fact that I've responded to all the weirdly nasty comments, not just yours...


If someone disagrees with my statements, that's fine. I'm perfectly happy to hear other opinions - when they're offered in a reasonable manner. Questioning my "right" to review the set, making snippy remarks and warping my words isn't reasonable. Most of the comments haven't just indicated disagreement - they've treated me like some sort of Internet idiot due to the disagreement. Geez, you're even trotting out my alleged dislike of the score as a reason to criticize me even though - as I've pointed out numerous times - I made NO COMMENTS about the quality of the music. I noted its FIDELITY.

My essential point: you and a couple of others have attacked a POSITIVE review of your beloved show for reasons I don't understand. I'm A-OK with constructive criticism - that's not what you and some others have offered. It's a "can't see the forest because you're too busy bulldozing the trees" situation.

Cripes, you referred to my work as "review", for God's sake, like it's some lower form of life pretending to be a review! How am I not supposed to be offended by that? :thumbsdown:


In no way, shape or form did I expect the series to be just like the movie. The film is the only version of The Fugitive I'd ever seen prior to this DVD, but it's not like I'd never heard of the show and knew nothing of it before 1993.

You seem to think I watched the series and constantly thought "that's not like the movie". The movie came to mind only when logical - such as during "Never Wave Goodbye" when Gerard and Kimble cross paths at the police station. Do I say "the movie did I better"? No - I indicate that the movie clearly "borrowed" that scene from the series, which it did.

I make very little mention of the movie after the first couple of paragraphs. You seem a lot more obsessed with it than I am. I fully understand that the two are different entities and will work in different ways. Do I like the action scenes? Sure, they're fun, but I don't expect every episode to be as action-packed as the movie. It's a TV show from 45 years ago - that's apples and oranges, and I don't favor one's approach over the other's.

I'm sure this comment offended you: "Those who enter The Fugitive the TV series and expect the action of The Fugitive the movie will leave disappointed. I don’t know how much excitement to expect in future episodes, but I anticipate that much of the show will follow the same lines as this one: more of a character drama with romantic overtones." I figure you think that's a slam on the TV show and praise for the movie.

It's neither. It's simply a statement to indicate to those who MIGHT expect the series to duplicate the movie that it won't. I don't criticize the show for its lack of action - I just mention that they're separate beasts so readers will understand that. Maybe all of them already do, but I think it's responsible for me to set the stage in that way.

Yeah, I prefer the episodes that further the "fugitive" plot. That's the series' reason to exist, so I like it when there's drama related to Gerard's chase of Kimble. I appreciate the changes of pace, though. While I do like action, the series would get tedious if it just offered action action action all the time.

If various folks continue to think I hate the show or I'm picking on them, so be it. I don't know what else to say - some people just like to be disagreeable, I guess. If someone has constructive criticism of my review, that's great - I appreciate that kind of comment. I DON'T like being insulted and having my words twisted to fit some form of agenda, though, and I'll fight back when that happens...

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I've not seen any others. Guess you're stuck with my "review" for now!

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

"Sniped at"?

Let me see: I post my review and get attacked for a series of strange reasons. I'm told I didn't like a show that I recommended, and I'm told that I shouldn't have reviewed it in the first place due to a variety of reasons. I respond to these nasty remarks with clarifications and just get MORE misplaced bile.

And yet YOU feel like the aggrieved party?

As I mentioned, I'm totally cool with constructive criticism. When I get a reader e-mail that takes issue with my opinions, I'm happy to discuss things - as long as the person behaves in a civil manner. When I get the "u r a idiot" e-mails, those don't fly. These posts have come a little too close to "u r a idiot" territory for my liking - they're more literate, but they're not much more open-minded or fair.

Some people have posted different opinions in a positive way. Some haven't. If the fact I want to respond to the latter folks means I'm "sniping" at them, so be it. I think that's a bizarre way to interpret things, though...

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I think you just sniped at me when I asked if anyone had seen a review written by someone who knows the old series and can tell us if there were any edits or alterations made. You came back with:


--- but I didn't mean anything against yours. I was just asking so that I could find out what alterations may exist.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Let's see here...what was it that was posted yesterday afternoon? OK, I have it:


Did I say sniping?--sorry, I meant grenade launching.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

This has gotten to be absurd. If folks who weren't around when a show or film was originally released/broadcast are not qualified to review it, do we now have to abandon all criticism of early silent films? Is no one qualified to review/criticize classic English literature?

If people want to continue to see golden era TV released, such people should welcome positive reviews from younger reviewers that fuels interests from a new generation of fans. Indeed, one suspects that some degree of cross-generational appeal is essential to the continued success of older shows on DVD. And Colin's review was overwhelmingly positive on the whole.

I say all of this as someone born in the '70s who loves the classics and who is looking forward to the release of The Fugitive with baited breath. I only wish that it weren't being split up into half seasons!

Jay

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I'm only 39, and I feel more than qualified to review this or any TV series that I've seen every episode of....but it would not be a professionally written review and I would have to watch certain episodes again, because it's been so many years since I've seen The Fugitive.

I think the issue is is that the reviewer Colin may have been opinionated in his comments (something I can relate to), and those who objected to his review disagree with his opinions. This forum works best when we can agree to disagree and be as civil as possible in expressing our different points of view.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

That was never the issue. Rather it has to do with modern biases toward trite and superfluous elements to a TV series when they are clearly a product of their time. We know “The Fugitive” is not perfect. But some of us also realize that it’s rather pointless to discuss superficial nuances of a series in a “what were we thinking back then?” sanctimonius vein which are patently obvious to the majority of fans of the series. Look, I know that Kirk is a lecher at heart who sleeps with every alien he can get his mitts on, giving “Star Trek” a sort of dated, smarmy gloss to it—but that’s part of its enduring charm. Should I put that in a review? What's the point?

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Very well said. There are many things that are different about the way television was done in the 60s compared to now. Continuity for one. It didn't really exist back in those days. Every episode was pretty much considered as a separate entity. The number of mistakes in The Judgment alone could fill several paragraphs (which as a matter of fact it did. You can see them all in volume 15 of the TV Collector, available as a back issue here: http://www.angelfire.com/ma/tvcollector/tvcbhtm.html) But that did not stop me from enjoying it and still enjoying it to this day. It is still the most requested thing to watch in my library. But the point is, if someone reviews it with modern eyes, they could pick it apart horribly for all of the mistakes and flaws. But back then, continuity rarely existed in any show and that is looking at it with modern eyes. As for him falling for "the babe of the week", well just because the set is presently in air order does not mean it was shot in that order. Again, modern TV vs 60s TV. Many shows had the episodes air in a completely different order from how they were filmed. The shows that appear on the set as episodes 1-15 may very well have been shot as 1,15,23,30,4,9 whatever. So to then review them as if they were a continuing arc is silly.
It reminds me of the time I read a music review in the paper about a Barry Manilow concert. The reviewer obviously didn't like him or his music and it came through clearly in his write-up. Should every review be glowing - no. But they should be done by folks who are least familiar with the subject.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

We're so used to modern tv series being broadcast as one L O N G continuous episode in "soap opera" fashion that we expect no less of this "perfected formula" for the shows of yesteryear.

Good point about the aired order of episodes to a 60s show being like a "shotgun pattern" compared with the production order--something I forgot to illustrate.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I just wanted to "amen" Michael and Hank's comments. They reflect my thoughts very well. And the issue about continuity and larger "arcs" are very well said and definitely apply to this show.

Gary "one week to go" O.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Sorry if you took offense at that - I meant that as a snarky comment toward the other guys. I know you weren't being antagonistic toward me - just trying to make a little joke...

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Thank you. That's the part of the attacks I've not understood - why some continue to believe I didn't like the show.

And thanks as well for calling me "younger" - now that I'm 40, I need all the comments of that sort I can get!

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Um... okay. I never saw the series, but I WAS "familiar with the subject matter". It's not like I'd never heard of it and didn't know anything about it. And it's also not like I'd never seen drama from the era, so I didn't step into things stuck with all those awful "modern biases" of which I've been accused.

You have a very good point about shows being shot out of order, and the aired order may be totally different than the shot order. However, I don't think it's silly to expect a continuing arc from The Fugitive due to the nature of the series. One can say "that's the way it was in the olden days!" but I think a show like this needs to be held to a higher standard. Star Trek could futz around all it wanted, as it didn't pursue a consistent thread.

The Fugitive, on the other hand, needed to be more concerned with the path of its story. DID they worry about that? I guess not, but I'm just not willing to totally let that slide as a "product of its era" thing. Part of what made the series unusual was its continuing story concept. Without the titular idea, it's just a show about some guy who wanders around the country and meets various people. There needed to be some continuity to Kimble's run, and if there wasn't, it hurt the series.

I can happily excuse continuity gaffes for most shows. I love The Flintstones even though one could write books about that series' lack of continuity, and the same goes for the original Trek. Again, I think The Fugitive is something different and should be held to a higher standard. And since some of you guys think it's the greatest series ever, I'm surprised you don't agree.

BTW, I'm not sure what point the comment about the Manilow critic serves. If I went into The Fugitive with a negative mindset, you'd have a point, though not one with which I'd agree. But even if I did agree, I took on The Fugitive eagerly. I pick and choose what I review, and this was one I definitely wanted to see. I also hoped to like it - and I did. So it's not like I entered the process thinking ill of the series and wanted to do a hatchet job. Apparently I wasn't as familiar with the subject as some think I should've been - nothing I can do about that - but I looked forward to the series, enjoyed it, and will be eager to check out Volume 2.

Ain't posting the review HERE, though...

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

There was indeed a general "overall" continuity. The theme was Kimble chasing the one-armed man while Gerard chased him. Writers were apparently given those parameters - the rest was made up by them as they went along. Kimble's family, for instance. Until "Home Is The Hunted", we knew really nothing about his family back in Stafford. That episode established a few things, like his sister and her family. Those characters remained relatively constant.


I do agree, but even this series had its share of continuity lapses. Take Kimble's family again as an example. In "Home Is The Hunted" we meet his father and brother Ray. While we do hear of his father passing away later on, we never hear about Ray again. He just drops off the face of the Earth. OK, it's possible that a person can exist and not be referred to. Still, you'd think they would have at least mentioned him again somewhere. Then there's Kimble's fathers wife. She's not mentioned at all in "Home Is The Hunted", yet in the finale, Kimble's brother-in-law mentions something about sister Donna dropping the kids off with her "mother". Divorce is certainly a possibility, still it seems just a little like a continuity lapse - one writer not knowing what another had established.

Even the home state was questionable early on. The show's creator originally established Kimble's home state as Wisconsin - and in "Home Is The Hunted" we see Kimble arriving on a bus that clearly states Madison as its destination. Yet it was learned early on that Wisconsin didn't have a death penalty in effect, so they had to move the setting to Indiana, which did. The shot of Kimble exiting the bus was probably part of a large second-unit bunch of shots with him going and coming in various ways, and whoever inserted it into "Home Is The Hunted" didn't realize that the bus's destination was clearly visible - or they just figured no-one would notice or care about such things - especially forty-odd years later!


Yeah, but we know where to find it!

Harry

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I'm pretty sure I've seen all 120 at one time or another. I wasn't an early watcher of seasons 1 through 3, but I did watch the ABC prime time showings of season 4, and caught up with the rest via the daytime reruns that ABC aired on weekdays.

The show then sort of disappeared or ran in odd syndication times. I'm sure I caught a few reruns during that '70's/'80's time frame. I caught a few on the A&E network, but didn't see that many. I seem to recall that they aired them on Saturday mornings - a difficult time for me.

When cable regulations forced WOR New York to not show duplicated local programming, they set up a bunch of syndicated reruns, and THE FUGITIVE ran weeknights at 9 PM. These were the time-compressed shows, but at least nothing was edited. During that run, I taped the great bulk of the episodes. When I checked to see what I had versus what was filmed, I think I missed about seven episodes total. But I'm sure that I've at least seen those episodes. I also grabbed the Nu Ventures videos - all 20 of them - that came out.

Harry
...with a week to go, online...

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I had seen a few episodes during the 70's, but I was a bit young to appreciate them. It was during the A&E run in the early 90's when I was really hooked. My wife and I had been married only a few years and we both started following the show seriously. Then WOR picked it up, and as Harry said, they started airing them every night at 9 PM. We watched it pretty much every night, and by the mid 90's we had probably seen every episode a couple of times each. It was such fun watching them for the first time, not knowing the outcome of the series (which I and my wife had somehow avoided in our lives up to that point).

"Home is the Hunted" might just barely beat out "Nightmare at Northoak" as my favorite in this first set - but tomorrow I might flip flop that pick. I guess the two-parter "Never Wave Goodbye" would come next, followed by "Fear in a Desert City" and then "Girl From Little Egypt." Even the episodes that others may not like as much I found very solid. "Fatso", "Ticket to Alaska", "Terror at Highpoint" and "See Hollywood and Die" are all solid stories in my book.

Gary "Janssen just nailed the part of Richard Kimble" O.

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Do any of the well connected "Fuge" fans know what CBS's plans are for releasing this series? I'd hate to think it's going to be done "PERRY MASON" style, which is essentially one season per year which means that it will be 2011 or 2012 before it wraps up (assuming it gets that far). For those of us who've never seen much of the show, that's a long time to wait.

I'd still like to know what some hour long shows like HAWAII Five -0 and Diagnosis Murder get full season releases and others get split. Makes no sense unless those shows sell that much better.

Steve "looking forward to David VP's Personal Review" O

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

That's when I first saw the show. I think I might have seen episodes run an independent channel in my area in the mid 90's too.