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post #211 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
That's putting it nicely. Colin is clearly not a fan of the show, and I'm hoping to get reviews from people who actually appreciate this series and aren't stuck in "action only" mode (aka the Harrison Ford debacle).

Did you even read Colin's review start-to-finish? Bother to read the last line: "This is a quality series that deserves your attention." You call that negative?


Quote:
The greatest show television has ever seen deserves a better review than this.

You say that as if it's a fact. It's an opinion.


Quote:
To refer to "FATSO" as an after school special is ridiculous! It was an awesome episode, ripe with plenty of action, drama, and great acting.

Are you saying that there are no weak episodes of the Fugitive? C'mon, any series that runs 120 episodes is going to have the occasional dud episode, or weak moments.

Quote:
Gary "geesh, how can one not be moved by Kimble's plight in these first 15 episodes?!!!" O.

Andy "geesh, how can someone take this review so personally?!!!" M.
post #212 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Thank you Colin, for the review. It gives an interesting look into how the younger generations might view what has been billed as "the greatest drama TV ever had."

Obviously Gary, David, myself and others look on THE FUGITIVE as something that perhaps Colin and members of younger demographics might not quite see. So much has changed in the landscape of not only television, but life in general since this show was produced.

I hinted at this in an earlier post:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...&postcount=152

I found Colin's review to be fair and honest. Those first few episodes after the pilot were somewhat strange choices as early episodes, and I can understand exactly where he's coming from. As for the "babe of the week", well, I suppose that with a drama about police pursuing an innocent man, the trend back in the '60s was to give the women in the audience something to grab onto as well. I can tell you that this red-blooded American male never minded feasting his eyes on the lovely actresses of the day as they made their procession through the weekly episodes.

That's perhaps another point. These shows were meant to be played out in the large time-frame of a week-to-week series. Kimble drifts into a town, interacts with the population, and leaves. Then we don't see him for another whole week, when he turns up somewhere else.

With the series available for instant viewing in a "Play All" mode, sometimes the similarity of the format might become more repetitively annoying. "Geez, just twenty minutes ago he was madly in love with Vera Miles, now he's falling for Pat Crowley?" When, in fact, the idea is that weeks - months - have passed in between.

There have to be countless days and nights of Kimble's flight and pursuit that we don't get to see. The episodes themselves represent the unconnected highlights of his journey.

So, yeah, I'm happy that Colin seemed to enjoy the series as much as he did, and hope that he can continue to do so as the series progresses forward. Within the scope of the entire series, there are bound to be themes, situations, that ring familiar, mostly due to the constraints of the format - a man on the run interacting with different people every week.

Indeed, with the "stable" of guest stars that Quinn Martin liked to use, we many times get to see the same actors playing different roles. We'll see Robert Duvall and Bruce Dern again in later episodes, and as mentioned, we get to enjoy Suzanne Pleshette in two different roles - only a few episodes apart as one came at the end of one season and the other came near the beginning of the next.

(Correction to above: It's Lois Nettleton who appeared in two episodes very close together numerically. She was in episode #89 near the end of the third season (last episode filmed that year), and in episode #92, the second episode in the fourth season under the new production management.)

Richard Anderson, who plays Kimble's brother-in-law even gets to play a different character during the series.

Harry
...with 12 days to THE FUGITIVE on DVD...
post #213 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Well, I stand by my initial comments about this first "review." But I'm not going to get into an argument with others about it.

Bob, I'm so glad to hear about Paul Mavis getting a review ready. I agree with you that his review of the "OZZIE & HARRIET" set from Shout was the best I'd ever read. He clearly loves classic tv, so I'm looking forward to his review.

Gary "less than 2 weeks to go now!!" O.
post #214 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Also lets understand how many imitators there's been to the Fugitive, such as the Hulk, that the formula seems stretched out now, when it was fresh then
post #215 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Scarpa
Also lets understand how many imitators there's been to the Fugitive, such as the Hulk, that the formula seems stretched out now, when it was fresh then

The imitators started even while "The Fugitive" was still being aired in prime time. "Run for Your Life" with Ben Gazzara was a variation on "The Fugitive" and began broadcasts in 1965.
post #216 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Hug
The imitators started even while "The Fugitive" was still being aired in prime time. "Run for Your Life" with Ben Gazzara was a variation on "The Fugitive" and began broadcasts in 1965.

...and The Guns of Will Sonnett is essentially "The Fugitive Out West."
post #217 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

"Though I couldn’t call the music bold and dynamic"..Colin Jacobson's reference to Peter Rugolo's music left me somewhat flabbergasted...but I suppose I could use the same terminology in describing Colin's writing...
post #218 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Added a correction to my last post above.

Harry
post #219 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phil*
"Though I couldn’t call the music bold and dynamic"..Colin Jacobson's referance to Peter Rugolo's music left me somewhat flabbergasted...but I suppose I could use the same terminology in describing Colin's writing...

Geez, some people like to go on the attack! I'm starting to regret posting my review.

For the record, my reference to the music reflects the score's REPRODUCTION on the DVD. It has nothing to do with the score's inherent quality as a score. I made absolutely no comment on the score as music at any point - I just referred to whether it sounded good or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
Well, I stand by my initial comments about this first "review."

Hey, thanks a lot for that condescending remark! Nothing like having my work referred to as a "review" in ironic quotes to make me feel good!
post #220 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_ks
Well, the opening salvo to the "review" ("For folks of my generation, we best know The Fugitive as the 1993 Oscar-nominated Harrison Ford flick...") pretty much told me all I needed to know and I had to stop right then and there.


So those of us who weren't born until after the series aired have no right to review it? Our opinions are invalidated? That makes sense.

And for the record, I knew of the series before the movie - I'd simply never seen it. I don't think I'm unusual in that regard - I don't think this is a series that was big in syndication, so if you want to find people who know it well, you'll probably have to stick with those in the 50+ age range. Apparently only their opinions matter. Nice to know - I'll never review anything made before my 10th birthday ever again, since I'm not qualified!
post #221 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by David VP

But, quite obviously, Colin wasn't referring to Kimble merely talking to a third party about his backstory, or Conrad telling us some stuff in the opening narration. It's more satisfying to actually watch the backstory unfold on screen, and that indeed takes many episodes to occur (in "Little Egypt").

Which was my basic point that I may not have conveyed well. Of course, the show gives us a little origin prior to that flashback episode, but I thought it was weird that the series didn't offer a more complete examination of those events until more than 10 episodes into its run. Doesn't it seem logical that Episode One should've shown what happened? Not a biggie, but it seemed odd to me...


Quote:
Interesting review, Colin. Although I couldn't help but feel a distinctly negative vibe when reading through your show-by-show remarks....but your comment about Kimble's constant bevy of "babes" was quite humorous.

But just wait till you get to Suzanne Pleshette (twice yet!) and Angie Dickinson in future seasons. You'll change your tune then. Because nobody can resist those "babes" (no matter how much you hate the weekly "I've Fallen For Kimble And Must Help Him Escape" storylines).

I don't hate the romantic concept itself - I just got annoyed that the theme so pervaded the first handful of shows. It actually goes away - IIRC, after episode 5 or so, Kimble doesn't really fall in love again during the rest of the set. If they'd spread out the romantic shows across the first 15, they'd blend. Since they come right off the bat, they make the series look formulaic at the outset.

And I didn't think I was negative. As others have mentioned, I gave it a positive summary and recommended it. Of course I'll think some episodes are better than others, and I felt some of these 15 weren't very good. However, it's not like I panned all of them. I actually expect the series will get even better as it continues, since most TV shows tend to need a while to really get going...
post #222 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
That's putting it nicely. Colin is clearly not a fan of the show, and I'm hoping to get reviews from people who actually appreciate this series and aren't stuck in "action only" mode (aka the Harrison Ford debacle). The greatest show television has ever seen deserves a better review than this. To refer to "FATSO" as an after school special is ridiculous! It was an awesome episode, ripe with plenty of action, drama, and great acting.

Agree to disagree time, I guess. I thought "Fatso" was silly and dated, and Jack Weston's over the top performance didn't help.

Obviously it's telling you refer to the movie as "a debacle" - methinks you're not objective about Fugitive related subjects. I call it "a quality series that deserves your attention" and I'm "not a fan"?

I'm not stuck in "action-only" mode. I liked plenty of shows that weren't heavy on action. Of course, I want to see SOME action, or the series loses its purpose. Its whole premise is based on the tension of Kimble's escape from the law, so if all we do is see him stand up for fat morons, it doesn't work. I want a balance, and the series usually offers that. Sorry you can't accept anything other than total praise for it or any alternate viewpoints...
post #223 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Scarpa
Also lets understand how many imitators there's been to the Fugitive, such as the Hulk, that the formula seems stretched out now, when it was fresh then

Hey, I grew up with the Hulk TV show - you older guys should be happy I didn't call The Fugitive a Hulk ripoff!

Thanks to all who "stood up for me". I appreciate the passion of those who disagree with me, but I don't appreciate the venom. I'm glad some were able to see that I tried to be as fair and honest as possible - and that I actually DID like the damned show!
post #224 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Jacobson
Hey, I grew up with the Hulk TV show - you older guys should be happy I didn't call The Fugitive a Hulk ripoff!
I too grew up seeing The Incredible Hulk in first-run too, Colin. Then I discovered a much older and superior man-on-the-run series : The Fugitive in 1980s PBS station reruns.

At least the feature film remake of The Fugitive was somewhat decent with a name star (although Harrison Ford is as bland an actor as always), but nobody expected it to match the original series in dramatic terms. It was an ACTION film, and Ford has long been primarily an action star.

The computer generated Hulk movie in this century totally ruined the concept of what made the original Hulk live-action series so great, and as Dr. David Banner....Eric Bana is no Bill Bixby. But The Hulk has that science-fiction aspect to it, and its mixing of two very different genres didn't always work.

I got a hold of the yet to air pilot to the new 2007 Bionic Woman series, and that remake / reworking is one of the worst pieces of crap I've ever seen! Its only saving grace is that Michelle Ryan as Jamie Summers gets to run 60 (?) mph in FAST-motion, as slo-mo was the only thing illogical about both of the original bionic series. Meanwhile The 6 Million Dollar Man, Lee Majors, was recently a no-show at a sci-fi fan convention where he was booked to appear....
post #225 of 707
Thread Starter 

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
I made absolutely no comment on the score as music at any point...

Well, to be truthful, that's probably the biggest omission in your review...you didn't mention that absolutely perfect, wonderful, moody, rich, and perfect (did I already say perfect?) Peter Rugolo music at all in your review.

And to not talk at all about the music in a review about the 1960s series "The Fugitive" is, in my opinion, akin to reviewing "Gone With The Wind" and not bothering to mention Clark Gable.*

* = Again, just my opinion on the matter. Everybody's mileage varies, of course, when reviewing particular movies and TV shows....and perhaps the music just didn't pack a wallop with Colin as much as it does with me every time I watch an episode of "The Fugitive".

For the record, I very much like the '93 movie version of "The Fugitive". I think the tension between Harrison Ford and Tommy Lee Jones works quite well. It's not nearly as terrific as the Janssen/Morse teaming, but I always enjoy re-watching the movie. (The incredible footage of the opening train wreck is worth the price of the DVD by itself.)

BTW, Colin, I'll bet you'll enjoy "Volume 2" of Season 1 of "The Fugitive" even more than Volume 1. I think the final 15 shows of the first season even outshine the initial fifteen. (Again, just IMO.)
post #226 of 707
Thread Starter 

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Here's a very interesting YouTube clip (linked below) I just now discovered, featuring the great actor Barry Morse (aka Lt. Philip Gerard).

Barry will be 90 next June. He still looks and sounds good. Incredibly, I don't think I've ever heard him speak in his native accent (he was born in London, England). (Did he speak with his British accent in the TV series "Space: 1999"? I wouldn't know since I've never seen a single episode of that series.)

As I recall, he feigns an American accent in the one "Twilight Zone" episode I have on DVD ("A Piano In The House"; a very good episode too).

Of course, Morse/Gerard is from my home state of Indiana in "The Fugitive", so he had to fake a U.S. accent in that entire series as well. And he did an outstanding job of it too. I never hear a trace of his British roots. It's truly a remarkable indication of Barry's acting abilities, IMO.

Anyway, I thought many of you Fuge fans might like to see and hear Barry Morse, circa 2007.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFHdzdnvdvQ
post #227 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by David VP
As I recall, he feigns an American accent in the one "Twilight Zone" episode I have on DVD ("A Piano In The House"; a very good episode too).
You recall correctly. He uses a haughty taughty rich guy accent.
post #228 of 707
Thread Starter 

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

A couple of "Fugitive" videos courtesy of the YouTube website......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiULdROb7pY&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY1qkygzcQE

"...He still found the time to pet a kitty."
post #229 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Barry Morse was also quite good in his episodes of NAKED CITY as well, and you can find those on DVD too.

Tommy Lee Jones gave an equally impressive performance in the feature remake. What I don't understand is why they changed Lt. Philip Gerard to U.S. Marshal Sam Gerard.

The second film "U.S. Marshals" co-starring Wesley Snipes as another fugitive whom Gerard pursues, is another example of a sequel of a sequel that never should have been made.
post #230 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Barry Morse is also excellent in the original "Outer Limits" episode:"Controlled Experiment" co-starring a pre-Archie Bunker Carrol O'Connor...
post #231 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Morse and O'Connor were just consummate professionals in my book, two men who took their craft very seriously, routinely giving 110 percent. These two got along famously on the set of "Controlled Experiment" and when not in front of the camera could often be seen held in rapt attention at a chess board. They would have been wonderful together in a detective series. Too bad Carroll O' Connors' talent was wasted portraying Archie Bunker in the 70s, a role far beneath his abilities, IMO.
post #232 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_ks
Morse and O'Connor were just consummate professionals in my book, two men who took their craft very seriously, routinely giving 110 percent. These two got along famously on the set of "Controlled Experiment" and when not in front of the camera could often be seen held in rapt attention at a chess board. They would have been wonderful together in a detective series. Too bad Carroll O' Connors' talent was wasted portraying Archie Bunker in the 70s, a role far beneath his abilities, IMO.

The Fact that anyone could say that O' Conner Wasted his talents Playing Archie Bunker is mind Boggling to me.. O' Conner Created a Deeply Flawed, Complex character, that thou Ignorant and Bigoted could still be liked, thou you could say he treated his family badly i.e. Dingbat and Meathead, you could see he cared for them deeply, and his sense of comedic timing for an actor generally not in comedic roles was fantastic. Carrol O' Conner Earned each and every Emmy He Won.
post #233 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

The late, great Carroll O' Connor was wonderful as Archie Bunker, and he played that role for 13 years. Even after Jean Stapleton quit "Archie Bunker's Place" early in 1980 and the writers had Edith die (offscreen) months later, Carroll admirably continued on for a few more years.

But on The Outer Limits, his and Morse's appearances -- though well acted, turned out to be one of the very few OL comedies, and it was a disaster.

Carroll as a dramatic actor in the 1960s fared much better in his guest appearances on such shows
as Naked City, The Defenders, I SPY, and The Man from U.N.C.L.E.
post #234 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Mr. O'Connor did a dual role on an early TIME TUNNEL episode ("The Last Patrol") where he played a historical military leader as well as his present-day relative, who travels through time to meet and confront his famous ancestor.

He also appeared in the "Christmas" episode of VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA ("Long Live The King") in its first season.

And since this is a thread about THE FUGITIVE, I'll get it back on track by noting Carroll O'Connor's turn as a local sheriff who pursues Dr. Kimble in the first season episode called "Flight From the Final Demon".

Harry
post #235 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

You read my mind with your last post, Harry. I was thinking about the same two IA episodes that Carroll O'Connor starred in. Since I'm a fan of Christmas-themed TV episodes, it's no shock that I loved his performance in "Long Live the King." But at the same time, this is the FUGITIVE thread and I don't want to see us get derailed, so a mention of him in the first season episode, "Flight from the Final Demon" is very appropriate here. A nice little story that we will see on the second half set.

Gary "I also agree with David that the second set contains even better episodes overall than the first - although I think the entire 1st Season is solid" O.
post #236 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Yeah, I forgot Carroll was in "Flight of the Final Demon"!

It was an average episode as far The Fugitive goes, but a good showcase for Carroll O' Connor and Ed Nelson. Although his guest work on Irwin Allen's series is nothing worth revisiting.
post #237 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I don't know that someone who has never seen a show is the proper reviewer for it. Okay, maybe they can be objective but it's hard, especially taking the show out of the context of it's time. I'm 50 and it would be like me reviewing a rap CD. Considering the completely different pacing and production of television from 45 years ago to know, someone raised on modern shows may not really get an older show. As for it being the best drama in TV history, yes it's an opinion, but it's most people's opinions who know anything about television.
post #238 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn
I don't know that someone who has never seen a show is the proper reviewer for it. Okay, maybe they can be objective but it's hard, especially taking the show out of the context of it's time. I'm 50 and it would be like me reviewing a rap CD. Considering the completely different pacing and production of television from 45 years ago to know, someone raised on modern shows may not really get an older show. As for it being the best drama in TV history, yes it's an opinion, but it's most people's opinions who know anything about television.

Bravo, Hank. That was very well said, and I "amen" every bit of it. There's just something inherently wrong with a person reviewing a dvd of the FUGITIVE television series whose only reference point was the film. It sets the person on the wrong track to begin with. Then when you add in the major difference in television written nearly 50 years ago with television and how it's written today, you have a recipe for a negative review. And that's clearly what happened.

And Hank is also correct in that the FUGITIVE is seen, by most people that have any clue about dramatic television in the 60's, as the best ever done.

Gary "we are only 8 days away at this point!" O.
post #239 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn
Considering the completely different pacing and production of television from 45 years ago to know, someone raised on modern shows may not really get an older show.
As someone who appreciates TV shows from all eras, I have to disagree with that statement. There are some quality dramatic TV series from the modern era that are methodically slow-paced and strong on character development. One is the 5 season run of HBO's "Six Feet Under", a show that was well acted and written and worthy of the numerous awards and nominations it received from 2001 to 2005.
post #240 of 707

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

There may be a few exceptions ("modern" era vs 50's-60's era) but IMO, they're few and far-between. I can't vote (yet) on the Fugitive being considered the best show but I can say that I'm counting down the days till "Dr Kimble" starts running The gang here has me more than ready for this one I'll be watching this one for the first time.

Hank, add me to that list of "ditto"'s Your comparison got me thinking how a review of a current/recent show by me would come across.
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