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post #181 of 707
7/26/07 at 6:35pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Regarding the Bosom Buddies theme song, to the best of my memory, "My Life" was ALWAYS a cover version even during the original broadcast.
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post #182 of 707
7/26/07 at 6:39pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Even a cover version would have required payment to Billy Joel's publishing company; he wrote the song.
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post #183 of 707
7/26/07 at 6:47pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey3rd
The theme song was yanked.
Just out of curiosity, what theme song is used on the DVD set?
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post #184 of 707
7/26/07 at 8:55pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

The running times to an official, major DVD release of The Fugitive is irrelevant, because not all episodes of any series are going to run exactly the same length. Even if a piece of music heard in the show was changed (very minor in this case), I don't believe they would cut any dialog or action scenes at all.
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post #185 of 707
7/26/07 at 8:59pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA
There's a dispute about whether the Bosom Buddies theme used on the original run ("My Life") was the originally intended one or the one that has been heard since.

Okay, NOW I see the change for The Fugitive: Billy Joel now plays the theme song!
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post #186 of 707
7/26/07 at 9:06pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P
Regarding the Bosom Buddies theme song, to the best of my memory, "My Life" was ALWAYS a cover version even during the original broadcast.
To offer a serious response, you're correct. But there's a bit more to it than that. The original Billy Joel theme song to Bosom Buddies was always there, but the producers shortened it for the second / final season. ABC may have had something to do with that decision to allow for more commercial time.
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post #187 of 707
7/27/07 at 5:55am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff#
The running times to an official, major DVD release of The Fugitive is irrelevant, because not all episodes of any series are going to run exactly the same length. Even if a piece of music heard in the show was changed (very minor in this case), I don't believe they would cut any dialog or action scenes at all.


And you know this how?
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post #188 of 707
7/27/07 at 7:44am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn
And you know this how?
Please refer yourself to WKRP.

Also they clipped Fall Guy to remove two music numbers from Paul Williams and Don Ho.

If a scene features a lounge singer in a bar and they can't get the rights to "Feelings," they might just snip out any cutaways of the singer at the mic so that we don't realize there's supposed to be singing to the replacement music.
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post #189 of 707
7/27/07 at 9:36am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Paramount is getting worse and worse. They're not even trying to clear music, they're just cutting it automatically without inquiring as to exactly how much it would cost.

Exhibit A: "Put on a Happy Face". Buena Vista didn't mind clearing it for a Golden Girls episode ("Beauty and the Beast," season 7), but for Gomer Pyle it was apparently too great an expense.

Exhibit B: The first episode of Family Ties: contained a Phil Ochs song that was intact on the Columbia House VHS, but cuts the scene in question on the DVD.

Exhibit C: The second seasons of the Garry Marshall/Milwaukee trilogy (Happy Days, Laverne & Shirley, Mork and Mindy). Need I say more?
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post #190 of 707
7/27/07 at 9:51am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewA
they're just cutting it automatically without inquiring as to exactly how much it would cost.
Unless you work at Paramount, you're making quite an assumption.
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post #191 of 707
7/27/07 at 11:08am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
Unless you work at Paramount, you're making quite an assumption.

My dealings with trying to get publishing rights has shown that this market has gone out of control on its pricing structures. The music publishing industry has taken a major hit in the past years. People aren't buying CDs. They aren't getting their cut of the pre-recorded action anymore. They're trying to fill in these profit holes by charging outrageous prices to producers. A lot of time they're used to selling their songs for commericals. Madison Avenue doesn't mind writing a lot of zeros when they can nail down the "right" song. And the publishers don't want to consider a major studio a charity case. They want fat cash for their songs - no matter how many scant seconds of the song appeared in the show. They also don't like to work fast so while you're on a production deadline - they don't give a crap cause it's not like you can go somewhere else to get the rights to that song.

I have no proof of how hard Paramount works to clear these titles or what they're budget is for getting these rights, but it almost comes off as a self-defense mode to remove aspects of these shows that allow others to profit and block their releases.
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post #192 of 707
7/27/07 at 6:34pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
Unless you work at Paramount, you're making quite an assumption.


Well, we do know for a fact that that's how Stephen Cannell does business. So why can't we make the assumption that any other studios might take his lead and do the same thing?
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post #193 of 707
7/27/07 at 8:48pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn
So why can't we make the assumption that any other studios might take his lead and do the same thing?
You can make any assumption that you want but an assumption isn't a fact.
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post #194 of 707
7/27/07 at 8:54pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Basically, the music industry is holding the TV-on-DVD industry hostage.
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post #195 of 707
7/27/07 at 10:36pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn
And you know this how?
That's easy. The Fugitive was made during an era of television during which no licensing was needed for popular music.....because there was none on fictional TV at the time. It just wasn't a budgetary option for the networks in early to mid 1960s drama series.

All of the incidentals heard on The Fugitive were generic and borrowed from older CBS series (mostly) and ABC series that came before it. There were some original themes from Pete Rugolo too, but even those became generic through their overuse during the 4 seasons. The use of Frontiere's Outer Limits music in the 4th season was frequent relief, because I never get tired of that.
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post #196 of 707
7/28/07 at 5:50am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff#
That's easy. The Fugitive was made during an era of television during which no licensing was needed for popular music.....because there was none on fictional TV at the time. It just wasn't a budgetary option for the networks in early to mid 1960s drama series.

All of the incidentals heard on The Fugitive were generic and borrowed from older CBS series (mostly) and ABC series that came before it. There were some original themes from Pete Rugolo too, but even those became generic through their overuse during the 4 seasons. The use of Frontiere's Outer Limits music in the 4th season was frequent relief, because I never get tired of that.

I'm in full agreement with these comments, although I admit to no factual knowledge on the subject. But it does seem true that the dramas of the 50's and early to mid 60's did NOT make use of pop music, therefore I still can't imagine where this "disclaimer" on the Fugitive set is coming from. Even the Vera Miles lounge act is very, very generic and it seems bizarre to me that it would need to be cut for financial reasons.

I know this series well, and unless there is a song playing in the background of some lounge, bar or on the radio that I've never picked up on - meaning it wasn't very loud and certainly wasn't used as a plot device - I'm still stuck trying to figure this one out.

My only thing is this - the incidentals MUST be kept intact. The music seems pretty generic at this point, but it was a powerful part of the show's success and I'd be very upset if it was changed in any way. That would stink, to put it lightly.

Gary "all the incidentals/mood music MUST remain intact" O.
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post #197 of 707
7/28/07 at 5:54am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
My only thing is this - the incidentals MUST be kept intact. The music seems pretty generic at this point, but it was a powerful part of the show's success and I'd be very upset if it was changed in any way. That would stink, to put it lightly.
That oesn't bother me....providing that the change(s) in incidentals (if any) are as minor and unremarkable as I believe they will be.

My only issue is that this is yet another half-season release, when there are only 30 shows a year.
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post #198 of 707
7/28/07 at 8:37am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I can't imagine what, music wise, could possibly be a rights problem. I've seen these episodes at least a half dozen times each, if not more, and I don't know what the hell Paramount could be talking about. However, if they are now in the mode of "when in doubt, take it out", then they may be removing music that they have no need to just because they refuse to put the time or effort into checking on something.
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post #199 of 707
7/28/07 at 9:02am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Dearborn
I can't imagine what, music wise, could possibly be a rights problem.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I know this show inside and out, and there's nothing I can think of that would be a music rights issue. Nothing at all.

Gary "this show really never made use of 'pop' music, so I'm very anxious to find out what might have been replaced - but it better not be the standard themes used throughout the series!" O.
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post #200 of 707
7/28/07 at 9:09am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

The more I think about it (and doing a bit of investigating), the more I think that David VP is probably right, about the music changes being incidental music within an episode.

I just pulled out the old tape I have for the premiere episode, "Fear In a Desert City", and the initial scene introducing Vera Miles' character has her playing the piano. I think the song is a known piece of music, though I can't put my finger on the title - but it could be THAT music that's been changed. It wouldn't matter to me, since it wasn't likely Vera Miles really playing anyway.

It's entirely possible that this is the only case in this first fifteen episodes that would need a change in music for licensing purposes. I don't recall if one of the episodes might have a car radio with music playing on it.

Harry
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post #201 of 707
7/28/07 at 9:18am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry-N
The more I think about it (and doing a bit of investigating), the more I think that David VP is probably right, about the music changes being incidental music within an episode.

I just pulled out the old tape I have for the premiere episode, "Fear In a Desert City", and the initial scene introducing Vera Miles' character has her playing the piano. I think the song is a known piece of music, though I can't put my finger on the title - but it could be THAT music that's been changed. It wouldn't matter to me, since it wasn't likely Vera Miles really playing anyway.

It's entirely possible that this is the only case in this first fifteen episodes that would need a change in music for licensing purposes. I don't recall if one of the episodes might have a car radio with music playing on it.

Harry

There were a few instances where a radio might be playing in the background, but the music was never anything along the lines of 'pop culture' music. I watched the Vera Miles episode the other night and it seemed to me she was playing a very forgettable tune (and yea, I don't think she was even playing). If that's the type of stuff they need to change, I have no problem. All I'm concerned with is the actual theme music from the show. Not just the opening theme, but all the "mood" music played throughout. Those pieces are priceless and set the tone over and over in the series. If any of those are missing, it would alter the series somewhat in my mind. It might not bother a newbie at all, but it would disappoint me. Hopefully that's not anything to worry about.

Gary "we are so close to the release I don't want to go back through my copies just to see what 'might' be a candidate for replacement - I'd prefer to wait a bit longer and watch them on the new dvds" O.
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post #202 of 707
7/28/07 at 12:42pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
All I'm concerned with is the actual theme music from the show. Not just the opening theme, but all the "mood" music played throughout. Those pieces are priceless and set the tone over and over in the series. If any of those are missing, it would alter the series somewhat in my mind.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about the score or theme being changed. To the best of my knowledge there's never been a score that had to be replaced for a DVD and I can't see why this show would be an exception. I know some shows' theme music has been changed before but I'm fairly certain that's only been when it was a pop song that was used and not a piece created for the show.
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post #203 of 707
7/28/07 at 3:22pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry-N
It's entirely possible that this is the only case in this first fifteen episodes that would need a change in music for licensing purposes. I don't recall if one of the episodes might have a car radio with music playing on it.
There were several, and all featured generic 1950s and 60s music heard on countless earlier series. One of the early episodes to feature that lame music on a car radio was "See Hollywood and Die" with Brenda Vaccaro. As I recall the story, at least that broadcast was interrupted by a police report about the punks who terrorize Brenda's character while she's in the car listening to the news! I think they break the windshield too.
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post #204 of 707
7/31/07 at 6:35pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

THE
FUGITIVE
A QM PRODUCTION

Two weeks from today - the running starts.

Harry
...counting the days...
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post #205 of 707
8/1/07 at 7:33pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

I'm going to be monitoring the sales figures from Amazon on this FUGITIVE release very carefully beginning today (2 weeks from it's release). As I've mentioned previously, I think the PERRY MASON sets are a good gauge of what a "success" for the classic half-season Paramount sets are. Frankly, the MASON's have done incredibly well. Right now, 6 weeks after it's release, PERRY MASON, SEASON 2, V. 1 is still sitting in the top 400.

I'd love to see THE FUGITIVE, at this point, move up from it's current spot of 239 and work it's way into the top 100 before next Tuesday rolls around. Then I'd like to see it stay in the top 100 up through it's release date and out the other side for about 2 weeks afterward. That would send a strong message that the release is very strong! Only time will tell, but I'm keeping my eyes on it from here on out.

Gary "of course, I'm buying it no matter what - it's the best show of all time!" O.
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post #206 of 707
8/1/07 at 10:10pm

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Here's my review:

http://www.dvdmg.com/fugitives1v1.shtml
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post #207 of 707
8/2/07 at 12:52am
Thread Starter 

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

From Colin's review....

Quote:
14 shows into the series, we finally get Kimble’s “origin story” on screen. We actually see his wife and the One-Armed Man for the first time, and we follow the particulars of his escape. Though we probably should’ve gotten these in the series’ first episode, I suppose it’s better late than never.

We actually do get the backstory (or "origin" story, if you prefer) in the series' first episode, as Kimble tells Vera Miles the whole story.

I might also add here that the "backstory" scene which is told by Kimble to Miles in Ep. #1 was possibly the most emotional piece of acting that David Janssen had to give during the entire 120 episodes of "The Fugitive". He's moved almost to tears during the story of his plight during that scene.

The "backstory" is also fleshed out a little bit even before Janssen's emotional scene with Vera Miles....as Barry Morse (Gerard) tells the audience the basic "backstory" tale as he's talking to Captain Carpenter about Kimble and his escape.

There's some good subtle writing in that Gerard scene too, IMO, as it doesn't seem as though the characters are necessarily re-hashing the details of the backstory just for the TV audience. But, of course, that's exactly what that "fill in the blanks" scene did intend to do.

And this all, of course, is also after the TV audience is told a recap of "Kimble Particulars" during the opening credits for the pilot episode, with narrator William Conrad succinctly relaying the details of Kimble's predicament (including a brief look at the slain Helen Kimble and the slippery one-armed man).

But, quite obviously, Colin wasn't referring to Kimble merely talking to a third party about his backstory, or Conrad telling us some stuff in the opening narration. It's more satisfying to actually watch the backstory unfold on screen, and that indeed takes many episodes to occur (in "Little Egypt").

Interesting review, Colin. Although I couldn't help but feel a distinctly negative vibe when reading through your show-by-show remarks....but your comment about Kimble's constant bevy of "babes" was quite humorous.

But just wait till you get to Suzanne Pleshette (twice yet!) and Angie Dickinson in future seasons. You'll change your tune then. Because nobody can resist those "babes" (no matter how much you hate the weekly "I've Fallen For Kimble And Must Help Him Escape" storylines).
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post #208 of 707
8/2/07 at 5:35am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Quote:
Originally Posted by David VP
Interesting review, Colin. Although I couldn't help but feel a distinctly negative vibe when reading through your show-by-show remarks....

That's putting it nicely. Colin is clearly not a fan of the show, and I'm hoping to get reviews from people who actually appreciate this series and aren't stuck in "action only" mode (aka the Harrison Ford debacle). The greatest show television has ever seen deserves a better review than this. To refer to "FATSO" as an after school special is ridiculous! It was an awesome episode, ripe with plenty of action, drama, and great acting.

Gary "geesh, how can one not be moved by Kimble's plight in these first 15 episodes?!!!" O.
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post #209 of 707
8/2/07 at 6:08am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Gary, you will be happy to hear that Paul Mavis, who has a deep appreciation and knowledge base of vintage/classic television, will being reviewing "The Fugitive," season 1, volume 1 for DVD Talk. Paul is one of the very few reviewers that I read on a regular basis, even if I have little or no interest in the show that he is reviewing . . . . . simply because of the depth of his knowledge and skills as a writer. His review of Shout! Factory's "The Adventures of Ozzie & Harriet" is, singularly, the best TV-on-DVD review that I've ever read, bar none. He may not go into the technical depth as other reviewers do, including Colin, but his knowledge and appreciation of older shows is second to none.

Paul's profile: http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/bio.p...reviewID=29458
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post #210 of 707
8/2/07 at 6:10am

Re: "The Fugitive" (1963): Season 1; Volume 1 Rumored To Be In The Works!

Well, the opening salvo to the "review" ("For folks of my generation, we best know The Fugitive as the 1993 Oscar-nominated Harrison Ford flick...") pretty much told me all I needed to know and I had to stop right then and there.

Too bad this was the first review I had to come across for a series that set the bar for incisive tv drama but at least we'll be treated to a first class write-up when Paul Mavis at DVDtalk.com gives us his take on "The Fugitive" S1 vol. 1 in the coming weeks.

P.S. Well, I see Bob just beat me to it, regarding Mr. Mavis. He informed me initially, in fact that Paul was to review this set and I can think of none better for the job. If ever a reviewer was able to get into the very subtext of what a vintage series has to offer the reviewer, this is the man to do it.
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