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post #181 of 242
10/30/07 at 8:17pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHarrison
Care to refresh my memory? I don't have the book sitting in front of me right now.

The mage ship (the ship almost everybody was fooled into believing the mages were on), the Ondavi, blowing up between B5 and the jumpgate, and lots of people on B5 seeing it (including Londo and Vir), and not even the tiniest hint of a ship blowing up in The Geometry of Shadows.

In Book II, the ship the mages (well 95% of them, those not on the Ondavi maintaining the illusions) were on, was the Crystal Cabin.


Jeanne Cavelos said on Monday, March 11, 2002, after I pointed this out:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanne Cavelos
I assumed a passage of time between the explosion of the Ondavi
and the Crystal Cabin's jump through the gate. In the book, all
you know is that, after the explosion, the Crystal Cabin is
maneuvering around the wreckage, and then we leave Elric's POV.
I assume that if a ship explodes, they're going to stop
everything for at least a few minutes before resuming normal
traffic and jumps. So the Crystal Cabin will have to wait before
jumping, giving Sheridan time to react to the explosion, along
with the rest of the C&C crew, Londo, Vir, etc. Then the Crystal
Cabin makes the jump and Sheridan goes into that speech at the
end of TGOS. Clearly, this is a passage of time that isn't shown
in the episode. Similarly, I inserted many things in the book
that weren't in the episode. If people aren't willing to allow
that things happened on B5 that weren't shown in the episode,
then they obviously aren't going to like my book, but I thought
that using that technique made the book a lot more interesting
than it would otherwise be (and also more true to the
techno-mages and their deceptive natures). Since I never show
Sheridan's speech in the book, it's never established how much
time passes between the explosion and the Crystal Cabin's
departure. Each reader can make it what he wants.

IMHO, that doesn't cut it, not at all. If something like that had happened during the episode, it would have been mentioned.
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post #182 of 242
10/30/07 at 8:19pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

I'm sure we'll get more "Lost Tales". Even if dvd distribution is weak in numbers there's always Sci-Fi Channel. That kind of move would give it the international network and, who knows, perhaps a new series for the B5. Wishful thinking, I know
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post #183 of 242
10/30/07 at 8:38pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
I'm sure we'll get more "Lost Tales". Even if dvd distribution is weak in numbers there's always Sci-Fi Channel. That kind of move would give it the international network and, who knows, perhaps a new series for the B5.

Nope, there isn't "always the Sci-Fi Channel." 1) WB already tried to find a TV distributor for the first Lost Tale and nobody bit. 2) Sci-Fi is now part of NBC Universal. They prefer to do shows that they own. A major reason that the passed on Legend of the Rangers and later went with Battlestar Galactica is that they didn't one the first property and did own the second.

TLT is budgeted, scheduled and designed to succeed or fail as a direct-to-dvd project. That's how it will be judged and that's how it will continue if it does.

Quote:
Joe, I'm pretty sure you were speaking in the context of First Ones vs. First Ones, but in case others thought you were speaking in the context of First Ones vs. the Younger Races, the Vorlons did unleash planet killers targeted at those who dared to side with the Shadows.


Yes, but that was after Kosh's action in "Interludes and Examinations" where he involved the Vorlon fleet in direct combat with the Shadows. The discussion was about how Kosh's decision constituted a violation of the previous rules of engagement, and what changed as a result of it. First One to First One combat and all-out attempts to exterminate Younger Races were apparently off the table for thousands of years until Kosh did what he did.

Regards,

Joe
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post #184 of 242
10/30/07 at 9:09pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Wow, Thanks Joe. I had no understanding of the behind the scenes on that level. Well, here's to hoping dvd market gets the numbers to keep making more. I'd be happy to get them on an annual basis, but, would hope they could extend the feature length a bit. One thing about B5 that's unlike other shows is it's written so well that when people are just standing around talking it's still engaging. So, if they extended it merely for dialog I'd be content.
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post #185 of 242
10/31/07 at 10:09am

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
Nope, there isn't "always the Sci-Fi Channel." 1) WB already tried to find a TV distributor for the first Lost Tale and nobody bit.

Hmmm.
From San Diego Comic-Con 2006, 7/22/2006

From that link (emphasis is mine):
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS on rastb5m
WB: “Do you want to do something else? Whatever you want to do, let’s do.”

So I thought about it and I came back to them and said, “Here’s what I’m thinking. When we did Babylon 5, what I liked were the small little stories that we did as ‘B’ plots and as short stories. What if we did a whole bunch of short films? Little mini-movies, each one worked around established B5 characters, not somebody else. One that’s worked around Sheridan, one that’s worked around Delenn, one that’s worked around Lochley or Garibaldi or whoever it is, and put these things out on DVDs and sell them to networks, whatever you want to do, make them short stories. An anthology show set in the Babylon 5 universe. They said, “Okay.” We already have a network that wants to carry them, by the way. We’re negotiating with them now. In addition to the network who wants to broadcast them, put them on DVD, three per DVD and sell them and build up an inventory of these: Babylon 5: the Lost Tales, basing a lot of them on stories I had for the series but never had a chance to actually put into gear-a bunch of different stories I never had time to produce.

So, it doesn't look like "nobody bit" but rather that everybody's waiting for the "build up" of "an inventory", and that hinges on Warner Brothers making a decision to do more B5: The Lost Tales DVDs.


And as usual, we wait.....................



Oops, one more thing, about B5:TLT sales:


Date: 9/5/2007 2:52:58 AM

From that link:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS on rastb5m
However, despite this, they are most pleased as sales have been
several orders of magnitude beyond what they anticipated.

More on this when I know more about what this actually *means*.
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post #186 of 242
10/31/07 at 10:27am

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN
The mage ship (the ship almost everybody was fooled into believing the mages were on), the Ondavi, blowing up between B5 and the jumpgate, and lots of people on B5 seeing it (including Londo and Vir), and not even the tiniest hint of a ship blowing up in The Geometry of Shadows.

It's been a couple years since I've seen that episode. I'd have to watch it again to compare with the book. But nothing stood out to me when I read that passage.
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post #187 of 242
10/31/07 at 12:57pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui-Gon John
I still think the Legions Of Fire Centauri Trilogy would make a great mini-series. Of course, you'd have to have a new G'Kar and Franklin, difficult but doable, like they had to replace Dumbledore in HP.

Those roles will never be recast, and I give JMS a lot of credit for that. However, that said, this is the one story I most wanted to see filmed. I always felt it was the biggest loose thread from the series.
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post #188 of 242
10/31/07 at 1:51pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHarrison
It's been a couple years since I've seen that episode. I'd have to watch it again to compare with the book. But nothing stood out to me when I read that passage.

"The Passing of the Technomages" intersects intimately with three episodes of Babylon 5:

The Geometry of Shadows
Interludes and Examinations
and
Z'ha'dum.

It pays to refer to each of these episodes as you read the trilogy, especially if it's been a long time since you've seen those episodes. Luckily, watching episodes of B5 is no chore. Just compare pages 318-321 of Book 2, to the events of "The Geometry of Shadows":

1. Sheridan being notified, at Garibaldi's welcome back dinner, of the mage ship requesting departure authorization, and Sheridan excusing himself to go to C&C.

2. Sheridan, in C&C, saying "Permission granted."

and

3. The ship (had to be the Crystal Cabin, according to the books) enters the jumpgate, and leaves peacefully (no explosions).


The Ondavi (ship that exploded) was only a minute ahead of the Crystal Cabin on the way to the jumpgate (Book 2, pg. 319, top). They were in sight of each other approaching the jumpgate.

John Sheridan in C&C, and Londo and Vir (via monitor) saw the Ondavi explode (Book 2, pg. 320, top).

We never got a sense of any of that in the episode, and it would have happened between Sheridan saying "Permission granted." and the ship leaving peacefully through the jumpgate, and those scenes were only a second apart in the episode. If the Ondavi, the first ship had exploded on the way to the gate, with the Crystal Cabin only a minute behind, wouldn't we have seen something of the explosion in the episode?

If it had gone down:
1. "Permission granted." (to the Ondavi). Book 2, pg. 318 middle.
2. "Permission granted." (to the Crystal Cabin).
We see 1 or 2 in the episode.

3. Ondavi explodes. Book 2, pg. 319.
4. Sheridan, Londo and Vir react to the explosion. Book 2, pg. 320.
5. Crystal Cabin maneuvers around the wreckage. Book 2, pg. 321 top.
6. Crystal Cabin leaves peacefully through the jumpgate. ...which we see in the ep.

If we see 1 or 2, and 6 in the episode, wouldn't we have also seen 3, 4 & 5?

To avoid problems, the Ondavi should have exploded in hyperspace, far enough away from Babylon 5 for nobody on Babylon 5, except possibly Mr. Morden (through his Shadow connections), to know about it.



SPOILER for The Passing of the Technomages, Book 3, Page 249+:
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I've got no problem with Galen on Z'ha'dum (e.g. Book 3, pg. 296, lines 8 thru 12), because it doesn't get that close to contradicting what was seen on TV.
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post #189 of 242
10/31/07 at 2:19pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Favate
Those roles will never be recast, and I give JMS a lot of credit for that. However, that said, this is the one story I most wanted to see filmed. I always felt it was the biggest loose thread from the series.

I would so love to see this part of the story made into some kind of movie, (TV Movie, Mini-Series, Direct To DVD, what have you). This material is so great and bridges the gap so well, from Londo becoming Emperor and taking on the keeper, to the future events in War Without End, to Vir's ultimate succession to the throne. I can understand all the sentiment against recasting those roles, but IMHO, the story is so great, it could withstand this. Also, Franklin and G'Kar are not major players in that trilogy, (I'm taking screen time, not significance ... obviously G'Kar is very significant to Londo's story, but really not a lot of actual screen time needed ... not like Londo, Vir, Senna, Mariel, Durla, Rem Lanas, Renegar, the technomages, etc.)

And of course, I'd never consider recasting if the 2 actors were still alive. I just feel this is such a great story and so needs to be seen, that it could handle the recasting. Much as Dumbledore was recast out of necessity.
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post #190 of 242
11/9/07 at 5:19pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN
Just compare pages 318-321 of Book 2, to the events of "The Geometry of Shadows":

Ok. I've finished reading the books now. I've seen the show a minimum of a half dozen times now and I must say I consider this to be a technical glitch between the book and show. It doesn't match, but it really doesn't bother me.

This on the other hand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoshN
SPOILER for The Passing of the Technomages, Book 3, Page 249+:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I've got no problem with Galen on Z'ha'dum (e.g. Book 3, pg. 296, lines 8 thru 12), because it doesn't get that close to contradicting what was seen on TV.

There were two thing in the third book that bothered me considerably. They were:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Galen given Sheridan a hint about what the Shadows plan was re: driving the refugees to the center of one sector so they could wipe them out. The other was Galen stopping the eye from shooting the White Star out of the sky.


You're right that those events don't contradict the show at all. And yet they do. Sheridan was "The One". He was the Nexus. The show really played up how he was instrumental in ridding the galaxy of the Vorlons and the Shadows. And I felt those two scenes from the book really stole some of his thunder. Had it not been for Galen, Sheridan wouldn't have scored the Alliance's first major victory against the Shadows and the whole rest of the story would have changed (or so it's implied). And his plan to attack Z'ha'dum would have made him look foolish and naive and likely have gotten him killed or worse. That's not the same Sheridan from the show. The man with the guts, courage and intelligence to change the fate of the entire universe.

Those two scenes completely stole Sheridan's accomplishments from him in my mind.
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post #191 of 242
11/10/07 at 8:06am

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Excellent analysis on the whole novel-issue, Mark (wanted to re-read them myself lately, but not enough time in the day).

Although what we should also remember here is that, with those issues you mentioned (Galen's intervention with "The Eye," et al), there's a better-than-average chance that JMS himself came up with those plot-points in his outlines for the novels, and Jeanne Cavelos had to implement them.

That might be something interesting to e-mail her about, come to think...
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post #192 of 242
11/12/07 at 2:41pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshEH
Although what we should also remember here is that, with those issues you mentioned (Galen's intervention with "The Eye," et al), there's a better-than-average chance that JMS himself came up with those plot-points in his outlines for the novels, and Jeanne Cavelos had to implement them.

That is most certainly a possibility. And with all due respect to JMS, this is an idea that should have disappeared with the Zarg. Assuming of course that it actually was his idea.

Still, I enjoyed the books. Especially the third one.
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post #193 of 242
11/12/07 at 8:31pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

*tapping his hands impatiently on table* i'm waiting for joe to clear this up .
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post #194 of 242
11/12/07 at 9:07pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

I also disliked how Galen took center stage at those two points in the story. (The timing with the departing ship is one of those timing things like the discrepancy between how Zathras's appearance on B4 was described in "Babylon Squared" and how it was portrayed in "World Without End". So that didn't bother me at all.)

JMS provided an outline of major events for all three trilogies - about 30 pages for each of them. He didn't go into sufficient detail to cover things like Galen's actions on Babylon 5 and in the Eye as far as I can recall. I think that was Cavelos was writing a novel mostly about Galen and trying to sync up with the main story and she went overboard. (She did a much better job in The Shadow Within.) JMS approved the final manuscripts before they went to press, so he at least acquiesed in this telling of the story. (Maybe he realized it would take too much rewriting to undo it, given the publication deadlines.)

In any event he as said that the trilogies are "mostly canon" in that the broad outline of events is correct, but that he doesn't feel himself bound by every detail the writers invented. He's also said the stuff in all the "approved" books (the Del Rey trilogies, The Shadow Within and To Dream in the City of Sorrows) can be treated as being "canon" until they are contradicted by something that happens on screen. What's on film always trumps what's published. So the in the apparent discrepancies between "Voices in the Dark" and the Centauri novels, "Voices" is the "real" version.

Personally I just ignore Galen telling Sheridan about the Shadow strategy and intervening in the Eye. That never happened, as far as I'm concerned. Similarly there was never an episode of Crusade called "War Zone" and no theatrical sequels to Highlander.

Regards,

Joe
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post #195 of 242
11/15/07 at 7:24pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHarrison
Ok. I've finished reading the books now. I've seen the show a minimum of a half dozen times now and I must say I consider this to be a technical glitch between the book and show. It doesn't match, but it really doesn't bother me.

I have a much harder time with things in the novels that blatantly contradict what was seen in the episodes. We were looking right at the scene in "The Geometry of Shadows" where the explosion would have taken place, and it wasn't there. That's far more than a technical glitch or a timing issue. It's a big, in-your-face, mistake. Things like that, and for another example, unrelated to B5, we have the mistake in "Lethal Weapon" where Riggs (Mel Gibson) shows Murtaugh (Danny Glover) the special bullet he (Riggs) has to kill himself with, "one with a hollow point", and they show an extreme closeup of a ball ammo cartridge (roundnose, full metal jacket). They draw attention to it and show the screwup "huge" on the movie screen. That and the final fight scene were just plain embarrassing.


With things that happened in times and places not covered by the episodes, I am much more forgiving. Regarding Galen giving Sheridan a hint about what the Shadows plan was re: driving the refugees to the center of one sector so they could wipe them out, that was ham-handed, contrived storytelling, and not even necessary, but it's minor.

Regarding Galen stopping the Eye from shooting the White Star out of the sky, well something had to stop the Eye from defending the planet. Sheridan doesn't always think things through. Look at "A Call to Arms" where he fired the Excalibur's main guns at the null field while the ship was moving toward the null field. That was a pure numbnut maneuver. JMS sometimes has his Captains pull stuff like that. Sometimes, the captain has to pay for it, like Sheridan in this case, when inertia takes the ship through the null field and it emerged on the other side and is surrounded by hundreds of Drakh shops, and sometimes the captain doesn't pay for it like when Capt. Gideon fires the main guns at the planet (Racing the Night) while in the grip of the enhanced gravitational field, and the Captain gets to defy the laws of physics, Wyle E. Coyote-style.
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post #196 of 242
11/16/07 at 12:04pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Well, I don't deny the points you bring up aren't a problem. But they don't bother me. Whereas the things that don't bother you, really bothered me.

Regardless, it was still a good trilogy of books. I also just finished The Shadow Within yesterday and really enjoyed it as well.
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post #197 of 242
11/17/07 at 5:30pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHarrison
Well, I don't deny the points you bring up aren't a problem. But they don't bother me. Whereas the things that don't bother you, really bothered me.

Regardless, it was still a good trilogy of books.

Oh, it's definitely a good trilogy of books, as are the other two Del Rey B5 trilogies (Psi Corps & Legions of Fire). The Passing of the Technomages and Legions of Fire are my favorites, with Psi Corps lagging the other two a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHarrison
I also just finished The Shadow Within yesterday and really enjoyed it as well.
You read The Shadow Within after The Passing of the Technomages? Works better as a prequel to the Mage trilogy.

BTW, I watched Voices in the Dark again a couple of days ago, and while I appreciate the better look of the CGI (except for the docking bay stuff, e.g. Lochley first meeting the priest in the docking bay, which looked fake*, and the beams hitting New York, which didn't look like they were actually doing much), both stories made me feel like I was on a short trip from Point A to Point B (one thread), and wasn't allowed to look off toward the sides (had to look straight ahead, because the stuff to the sides wasn't finished) while I was pulled through both stories, and before I knew it the trip was over.

In B5 and Crusade, there was always a feeling of being in a real, populated place, with stuff happening all around us. This B5-TLT disc was more like an amusement park ride that took you through a pre-planned route, and it felt much more one dimensional.

* The lighting on Lochley and the priest looked like it was soft and warm, like the room lighting in her quarters, and didn't match the lighting in the rest of the bay, which was from a greater distance, and was harsher and colder. That caused them to look like they were superimposed on the background and not *in* that environment.
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post #198 of 242
6/11/08 at 10:11am

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

any1 know when the next one will come out? anyone? i'm waiting here (fingers tapping on table =P
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post #199 of 242
6/11/08 at 10:41am

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

I'm pretty sure the first disc sold well enough to interest WB, but at the moment B5 is a victim of JMS's success.

He's just returned from the Cannes Film Festival, where the film Clint Eastwood made from his script Changeling was well received. (That it stars Angelina Jolie and John Malkovich, in addition to be directed by Eastwood probably didn't hurt. ) Ever since selling the script to Universal and Imagine Entertainment (originally for Ron Howard to direct, but he got jammed up on another project and sent the script to Eastwood) JMS has been overwhelmed with job offers - for adaptations, originals, re-writes of other writer's stalled scripts (Ninja Assassins, mentioned below, is a script he was called in to fix), comic books and TV pilots.

Quote:
...after more days of interviews and press and screenings and stunningly positive, glowing reviews [for Changeling - j.d.], on to Berlin, where my script for Ninja Assassin was being filmed. Brilliant stunt work. Dinners in the cool German evening. Then off again to London for meetings with several production companies regarding TV projects, and a meeting with director Paul Greengrass on They Marched Into Sunlight, for Tom Hanks' company, before flying back to LA for four days of massive jetlag.


You can read the full post here.


It may be some time before he can even think about any more Lost Tales.


Regards,


Joe
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post #200 of 242
6/11/08 at 11:57am

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Didn't he work with a group of writers for the show? Couldn't he let one of them do the movie and have him be an advisor? The actors are not getting any younger.
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post #201 of 242
6/11/08 at 1:15pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Didn't he work with a group of writers for the show?

Not after the middle of the 2nd season. Except for one S5 script ("Day of the Dead" by Neil Gaiman) JMS wrote every episode of the 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons.

In any case, he's going to want to oversee any future LTs, at least as Executive Producer, and probably as de facto story editor, and that's hard to do when you're in London shooting a TV pilot and WB is prepping the next LT segment in Toronto. Even he turns the writing on LT over to someone else his existing writing commitments are going to leave him no time to wear any of his other hats on the project - and he's not going to let anything go out under the B5 name that he doesn't control. (Why should he at this point? He's an "A" list writer now. )

BTW, the list of projects mentioned above doesn't even include his comic book work, and several other movie and TV things only hinted at thus far. (Including a "near-legendary" SF property being prepped for the big screen.) Also he said to keep an eye out for some kind of announcement in the June 19th edition of Daily Variety.

Regards,

Joe
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post #202 of 242
6/11/08 at 3:01pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Sounds like we're never going to get that B5 feature movie. It's been 10 years since the show ended, and two cast members are already gone. It's a damn shame - it could have been a great movie series.
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post #203 of 242
6/11/08 at 5:00pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino

BTW, the list of projects mentioned above doesn't even include his comic book work, and several other movie and TV things only hinted at thus far. (Including a "near-legendary" SF property being prepped for the big screen.) Also he said to keep an eye out for some kind of announcement in the June 19th edition of Daily Variety.

Regards,

Joe

Joe, What are the rumors as to what the SF property is?
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post #204 of 242
6/11/08 at 5:32pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Favate
Sounds like we're never going to get that B5 feature movie. It's been 10 years since the show ended, and two cast members are already gone. It's a damn shame - it could have been a great movie series.

Maybe - maybe not. It is obviously true that the range of possible stories is now more limited than it was, as is the time frame in which a new story can take place (at least with the original cast & characters.) OTOH, JMS still owns the feature film rights to the property, his standing and his profile in the industry is way up, and his chances of getting the feature film he wants to do funded and produced have never been higher.

Don't forget, even before JMS's deal with Ron Howard and Brian Grazer for Changeling went through, Warner Bros. had approached JMS about doing a B5 feature. The Lost Tales came about because he wasn't emotionally able to tackle a big story with most or all of the full cast in the wake of the loss of Richard Biggs and Andreas Katsulas. The passage of time and his knew-found clout in the Biz may make it possible for him to return to the idea - when he gets a few minutes to breathe.

I think the ideal situation for him would be to take about 1/3rd of the budget any comparable film would get, give one of the B5 TV directors like Jose Trevino a shot at the big screen (which would give JMS more control as a producer vis a vis the director than would normally be the case), put Doug Netter in charge of the logistics and show what can happen when you apply the B5 production model to the big screen.

Quote:
Joe, What are the rumors as to what the SF property is?

Less rumor than speculation - various people have attempted to do a remake of Forbidden Planet over the years, and supposedly there is another underway now. JMS would certainly be a logical candidate for that - and it matches his description of "near legendary".

Two other adaptations that would qualify - although I don't know if anyone is actually working on them - would be The Foundation Trilogy and Stranger in a Strange Land, both classics that have been optioned over and over again without anyone ever having found a way to make them work. (Not that this always stops Hollywood from making the movies - witness the recent Will Smith misfires I, Robot and I am Legend.)

Most intriguing is the report that JMS's new pal Ron Howard has acquired the rights to "Doc" Smith's Lensmen novels. Given that Smith's space opera epic was one of the inspirations for B5, and that he is one of the few writers who could bring the story to the screen with the scope and energy of the original - but without the campy excess - this sounds pretty cool to me. I'm looking forward to the 19th.

Regards,

Joe
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post #205 of 242
6/11/08 at 11:44pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

the nature of SF is that it is vast and virtually unlimited in scope in what u can tell. even B5 itself had significant changes of the main casts during its 5 year run =P. so i don't think a feature has to have EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. u can even have a B5 without any of them, make the story take place in the universe.
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post #206 of 242
6/12/08 at 3:40am

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger
the nature of SF is that it is vast and virtually unlimited in scope in what u can tell. even B5 itself had significant changes of the main casts during its 5 year run =P. so i don't think a feature has to have EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. u can even have a B5 without any of them, make the story take place in the universe.

All of which is true, but JMS wants as many of the original actors as possible.. He's always said that the main reason he wanted to do a feature film is to reward the actors with the big payday and recognition that only a feature film can bring. It is true that they don't all have to be in it. The abortive indie film, Babylon 5: The Memory of Shadows was going to focus largely on some new characters and feature only a few of the characters from the original series and Crusade. Because some brand-new indie producers had optioned the rights from JMS he saw the film as a kind of "toe in the water" way of bringing B5 to the big screen and therefore wrote a smaller, "disposable" story for them. Presumably if the film were made and did well they'd do a sequel that was more along the lines of what he'd always intended.

The film, of course, didn't get made, because the producers couldn't raise enough money and JMS declined to given them a second free extension on their option. Here's the interesting part: Just before the project was dropped, JMS and the producers approached Warner Bros. about a co-financing/distribution deal. WB was interested, but they had a condition: They wanted to replace the TV actors with "name" film actors in all the B5 and Crusade roles. Rather than do this, JMS let the project quietly die. That should give you an idea of how seriously he takes the idea of getting the original actors into any feature film.

Look, it has always been the case, and is especially the case now, that JMS doesn't need a B5 movie. He has plenty to keep him busy and he's making lots of money - more these days than he ever dreamt about, I'm sure. The main B5 story was told on TV, the DVDs are on the shelf and that project is over. If he wants to play in the B5 universe, there's always The Lost Tales. So the only way he'd take the better part of three years out of his life to write and produce (and (maybe direct) a B5 feature is if it is the feature he's been making in his head for the past 20 years.

Regards,

Joe
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post #207 of 242
6/12/08 at 5:07am

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
Look, it has always been the case, and is especially the case now, that JMS doesn't need a B5 movie. He has plenty to keep him busy and he's making lots of money - more these days than he ever dreamt about, I'm sure. The main B5 story was told on TV, the DVDs are on the shelf and that project is over. If he wants to play in the B5 universe, there's always The Lost Tales. So the only way he'd take the better part of three years out of his life to write and produce (and (maybe direct) a B5 feature is if it is the feature he's been making in his head for the past 20 years.

And that's exactly the feature that fans want to see. I hope he gets to make it.

I watched the first episode of Season 2 last night. My wife and I are watching the show from start to finish, and she's never seen it before. She's been a big fan of Lost for several years and is impressed by how B5 pioneered a lot of that storytelling for TV (the serialized story, the flashbacks, major characters moving on, coming in, etc.). So B5 has been very much on my mind lately.

I'm glad to see JMS so busy. But with every new project of his that I read about, I think "Oh no! Another obstacle to a B5 movie!" Nonetheless, I am interested to see his new films, and glad he's having such mainstream success. I can think of few who deserve it more.
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post #208 of 242
6/12/08 at 9:02am

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

i wish there was a current popular film director that has cloud and power, like say a spielberg or even a jon favreau who has had a recent success and is a huge fan of B5. then they sign on to direct . that ought to make that film possible . *sigh* fantasies of a B5 fan i guess =P.

before B5 and Twin Peaks, were there other TV series that were written like this?
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post #209 of 242
6/12/08 at 9:35am

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger
i wish there was a current popular film director that has cloud and power, like say a spielberg ... is a huge fan of B5. then they sign on to direct .

You never know. I can't find a message on JMSNews to confirm this, but I could swear that I heard somewhere along the line that Speilberg was actually the first "name" director to look at the Changeling script. Supposedly he really liked it, but didn't want to do another period piece so soon after Schindler, Ryan and Indy 4, and was too busy with the latter anyway to have time for it in 2007 or 2008. So he passed it along to his friend Ron Howard. Which means Spielberg may at least be a fan of JMS the screenwriter, and his buddy Ron might turn him on to B5. (When JMS first met Howard he called him, "Mr. Howard", which lasted about 10 seconds. "You gave my dad a job," the director said, "You call me Ron." Rance Howard played John Sheridan's father in several episodes of B5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger
before B5 and Twin Peaks, were there other TV series that were written like this?

Well, it kinda depends on what you mean by "TV series". The Brits tend to do short form series, anywhere from 6 to 18 episodes, often adapations of literature, that have clear story arcs and definite endings. Many of them turned up on PBS as Masterpiece Theater selections, and the best of them generated sequels. Soap operas, of course, employ continuing storylines, but they tend to be more open-ended with a single story spanning several seasons, while subsidiary stories may last only a season or a portion of a season.

In American primetime there hasn't been much in the way of serialized story telling, and nothing comparable to the five-year epic of B5. There were shows with premises that had built-in endpoints, like The Fugitive or The Guns of Will Sonnett, but week-by-week they were told in self-contained episodes that rarely built on one another. Only the finale (in the case of The Fugitive, Will Sonnett was cancelled before it got that far) actually advanced the "main" story.

Twin Peaks is a different case, because it lacked two things that B5 had - a firm conclusion that it was moving toward and a firm end date. I think some of the early story threads were planned out, but at a certain point they just started winging it and it showed. Closet in spirit to what B5 did was Wiseguy. There the lead character took different undercover assignments, each of which was an arc unto itself, and which would run for varying lengths, each with a definite beginning, middle and end that were planned from the start. None of those arcs went as long as a full season, IIRC.

X-Files was, of course, another show with a continuing narrative, but no true "arc" that was planned out in advance. The "make it up as you go" approach eventually produced a mythology so dense and even self-contradictory that even hardcore fans got tired of the series and it limped along like many shows, staying on the air just that year or two longer than it should have, when the ratings caught up with it. Better by far to go out on top with the audience wanting more than over-staying your welcome. One of these days the industry may figure that out.

But B5 was really the first (and so far really only) show to be designed like a series of book, with each season correpsonding to a volume in the series and everything outlined to make the overall narrative work. (While still leaving room for adapatation to real world changes.) It is notable that what is literally the central crisis of the series - B5's break from Earth and declaration of independence - takes place over three episodes in the middle of season 3 - virtually the exact mid-point of the entire series. Even Lost wasn't able to do anything that precise, because the network initially balked at establishing a fixed end-point for the show, wanting the option to stretch things out for as long as the ratings held-up - which put the writers in an impossible situation.

Regards,

Joe
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post #210 of 242
6/16/08 at 12:16pm

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

B5=very unique, but still under-watched. i think if u randomly ask anyone on the streets today, they will have heard of lost (at the very least) but won't have a clue about B5.

the prisoner (british i know) did that in the 60s didn't they? but it was pretty much a one-off like many of the things they did.

how about 24?
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