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post #121 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

The UPS guy stuck his head through the door while I was in a project meeting with my boss and a buch of technicians and I signed for it. It is sitting on my desk as I type this. I'd normally race home right after work and watch this, but I'll have to put that off for a few hours because I have to stop at the hospital on my way home and visit with my mom, who is recovering (very well) from surgery to repair a broken ankle. Duty before pleasure.

Quote:
...I think for the humans we saw Sheridan, Garibaldi, Franklin and Lochley, but not Ivanova.

I wouldn't read too much into this. The original plan for this disc was to have three stories focusing on Humans - Sheridan, Lochley and - you guessed it - Garibaldi. The preliminary plan for disc 2 would be the aliens, with Londo and Vir being among the names bandied about. Add in the fact that JMS would want to highlight the characters played by Andreas Katsulas and Richard Biggs and the menus basically come down to depictions of the characters JMS intended to use on the first two discs plus the "tribute" portraits. I doubt that who is or is not shown has any deeper meaning. This is a DVD menu, not the top of Lenin's tomb in the bad old days of the Soviet Union.

Regards,

Joe
post #122 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
I wouldn't read too much into this. The original plan for this disc was to have three stories focusing on Humans - Sheridan, Lochley and - you guessed it - Garibaldi.
That sounds good. That reminds me of the other budget constraint impact on the production - the lack of other familiar faces. It would have definitely been strengthened if we saw some of the other supporting actors briefly appearing. Even an off-screen line from Delenn would have helped. I presume that if WB does give the go-ahead for more of these then we could have more supporting cast appearing in the discs and more interactions between the various major characters.

Neil
post #123 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

After I feed my baby lunch when she wakes up from her nap, we're going to run out to Best Buy and pick up a copy.
post #124 of 242
Thread Starter 

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Can someone set the exact time frame of these stories in the B5 Universe in terms of both end of Season 5 and Crusade?

I have read three different time frames in this thread about the Sheridan-Galen tale and I am getting confused.
post #125 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

10 years since Sheridan became president of the InterStellar Alliance.
post #126 of 242
Thread Starter 

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
10 years since Sheridan became president of the InterStellar Alliance.

Which is roughly the beginning of Season 5 which was 2261?

And Crusade started in ~2267?

And speaking of Crusade, was there a passing reference to the plague on Earth?

Thanks
post #127 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
I have read three different time frames in this thread about the Sheridan-Galen tale and I am getting confused.

??? I'm not entirely sure what "three different time frames" you're referring to.

Both the stories on the TLT disc take place within the same 72 hour period 10 years after the founding of the Interstellar Alliance. (The planned Garibaldi story would have taken place during the same three days.)

Now, I don't think the exact date of that founding has been established. Arguably it was late in 2261 (almost certainly the very end of December), when the original agreement was announced after the Earth Civil War. You can also make a case that the "official" birthday of the Alliance would be January 2262, when Sheridan was actually inaugurated and the IA became a going concern. (I lean towards the January date, myself.) Either way, we're talking about a difference of a couple of weeks.

The Telepath War begins in 2264, when Lyta and G'Kar return from their two year exile. It is over by 2265 (by which time G'Kar is once again serving on the IA advisory council, as seen in the Rangers pilot.)

So TLT takes place in either December 2271 or January 2272. A Call to Arms, the TV movie that introduced Galen to both Sheridan and the audience, took place in December 2266. Preparations were underway for the celebration of the Alliance's 5th anniversary, either later that month or early the next, but the event hadn't happened yet. The Crusade episode "War Zone" is set in the first week of January 2267, shortly after the Drakh attack on Earth.

So TLT basically takes place 10 years after the first episode of season 5 (give or take a couple of weeks), and 5 years after the first episode of Crusade (also give or take two weeks.)

To put this in further perspective, Londo and G'Kar die in 2278, established in "Midnight on the Firing Line", "War Without End, Part 2" and the framing sequence from In the Beginning, among other places. That's the same year David Sheridan is given the Urn that Londo gave the Sheridans to hold for his 16th birthday, and the year Sheridan and Delenn end up as Londo's prisoners on Centauri Prime. Those events all take place roughly 6 years after TLT.

The series finale, "Sleeping in Light", takes place early in 2281, a further 10 years or so after TLT a little more than 20 years after Sheridan's "death" on Z'ha'dum.

JMS has said that his plan for The Lost Tales is to jump back and forth in the timeline of the B5 universe, sometimes by hundreds or thousands of years, through flashbacks and flashforwards and stories-within-stories, though most segments would focus primarily on one or two established characters. (Including recurring roles for new characters "established" by appearances in the Lost Tales themselves.)

Quote:
That reminds me of the other budget constraint impact on the production - the lack of other familiar faces.

This is only indirectly a budget issue. Since the plan is for 3 episodes per disc, each of about 30 minutes, there is time to tell each story and less room for extraneous cast members. As JMS said about "WWE" and "SiL" you have to decide what the story is about. Sure it would have been nice, for the fans and the actors, to have Sinclair visit with G'Kar, Londo, Garibaldi, etc. - but it wouldn't have advanced the plot. The same with having more characters mentioned in the toasts around the table. It would have extended the scene for no particular purpose and also undercut the idea that each character named someone personally important to him or her. No one would have mentioned Lyta, for instance, because no one at the dinner had that kind of relationship with her. (The only people might have were G'Kar, who was dead, and Zack Allen, who missed the party.)

Garibaldi was a casualty of the budget, but not because Jerry Doyle would have cost too much. The additional SFX shots, specialized costumes and set pieces that a story set on Mars would have required were just too much for the available dollars. (This is also why the "alien trilogy" was always planned for disc 2 at the earliest. Prosthetics and costumes are pricey, and obviously more affordable when done in combination with station fly-bys and green-screen "sets" and backgrounds already produced for disc 1.)

Don't forget, Warner Bros. would have budgeted this thing to return a profit on the most conservative domestic DVD sales estimates, since a TV sale is by no means assured and international sales are always iffy given exchange rates and other factors. Once they see the actual sales numbers they'll be able to decide (a) whether or not there will be any more of these things and (b) how much they can spend on each.

I'm confident that sales will be more than sufficient to get us disc 2 and beyond, and that the production will gradually build up a "bank" of material from the early stories that can be applied to the later ones at little cost and thus improve the over-all "look" of the project as it moves forward.

(And while pre-orders have been strong, TLT has not been in the Amazon Top 10 sales rank since the disc went up on the site. It dropped well down the list after the first few weeks, then climbed again as the release date approached. We may not have access to actual figures, but I'm sure JMS will let us know whether or not sales exceed Warner Bros.'s expectations - as they have every single other time they've released a B5 project on home video - and what that means in terms of future releases.

But it will probably be a few weeks as he is on deadline for his screenplay for the Silver Surfer feature film, and Clint Eastwood and Angela Jolie are hot to start shooting his original screenplay The Changeling and he has a few other irons in the fire. With a writer's strike looming, the studios are trying to stockpile as many scripts as they can, so every scribe in Hollywood is pounding his little fingers bloody at this point.

Regards,

Joe
post #128 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
And speaking of Crusade, was there a passing reference to the plague on Earth?

"Passing reference"? The first season of Crusade was mostly going to be about the Excalibur searching the abandoned worlds of the First Ones and other out-of-the-way places for a cure for that plague. (By early in the 2nd season an apparent cure would have been found, and the focus of the series would have shifted - much as Babylon 5 was all about the mystery of the Vorlons, the Minbari surrender and Sinclair's missing 24 hours for the first 22 episodes before it radically shifted emphasis starting early in S2.)

Regards,

Joe
post #129 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Made it to Best Buy and got the last copy they had. Unfortunately, it didn't have the mini-comic. Oh, well. I would have liked to have gotten it, but I'll live.

Now to watch the disc before bed.
post #130 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

watched it. Enjoyed it. Need more.
post #131 of 242
Thread Starter 

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
"Passing reference"? The first season of Crusade was mostly going to be about the Excalibur searching the abandoned worlds of the First Ones and other out-of-the-way places for a cure for that plague. (By early in the 2nd season an apparent cure would have been found, and the focus of the series would have shifted - much as Babylon 5 was all about the mystery of the Vorlons, the Minbari surrender and Sinclair's missing 24 hours for the first 22 episodes before it radically shifted emphasis starting early in S2.)

Regards,

Joe


umm ok, but I have no idea what this has to do with my question.

Was there any reference to the plague in TLT disc that was just released?
post #132 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
umm ok, but I have no idea what this has to do with my question.

Quote:
"And speaking of Crusade, was there a passing reference to the plague on Earth?"

Your question was ambiguous. I thought that maybe you hadn't seen Crusade, but knew about the plague from A Call to Arms, and were asking about that show. The post I pulled the quote from says nothing about TLT, it just asks questions about the B5 universe.

To answer your actual question, no, there is no reference to the plauge that I recall, unless you want to count the fact that New York is still a thriving city in 2100 or so a reference. (I wouldn't since we knew from "Sleeping in Light" and "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" that the plague did not wipe out all life on Earth long before ACtA or Crusade were produced.)

Regards,

Joe
post #133 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Bu
umm ok, but I have no idea what this has to do with my question.

Was there any reference to the plague in TLT disc that was just released?

No it would seem that was resolved in events we have yet to see. But it's apparent by Sheridan's tone that he and Galen have been on many an adventure together. I like that whatever change that Sheridan undergone when he was revived, has now made him atune to the technomage agenda.
post #134 of 242
Thread Starter 

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Scarpa
No it would seem that was resolved in events we have yet to see. But it's apparent by Sheridan's tone that he and Galen have been on many an adventure together. I like that whatever change that Sheridan undergone when he was revived, has now made him atune to the technomage agenda.

Thanks Dave
post #135 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Please forgive me if I am interrupting the thread, but with the purchase of this DVD, I now own all of the Babylon 5 material, and was wondering the best order for viewing the series, the movies, and The Lost Tales. It has been a long time since I viewed the series, and I know this is somewhere out on the web, but can someone put up a list? Thanks.
post #136 of 242
Thread Starter 

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Brooks
Please forgive me if I am interrupting the thread, but with the purchase of this DVD, I now own all of the Babylon 5 material, and was wondering the best order for viewing the series, the movies, and The Lost Tales. It has been a long time since I viewed the series, and I know this is somewhere out on the web, but can someone put up a list? Thanks.

This is how I would watch them if I were a first time viewer or if you haven't watched in a long time.


Babylon 5

1) The Gathering - Pilot

2) Season 1

3) Season 2

4) Season 3

5) Season 4 Episodes 1-8

6) Third Space - Movie

7) Season 4 Episodes 9-22

8) In the Beginning - Movie

9) Season 5 Episodes 1-21

10) A River of Souls - Movie

11) Legend of the Rangers - Movie

12) Season 5 Episode 22


Crusade

1) A Call to Arms - Movie
2) Season 1


The Lost Tales
1) Voices in the Dark
post #137 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Bu
This is how I would watch them if I were a first time viewer or if you haven't watched in a long time.


Babylon 5

1) The Gathering - Pilot

2) Season 1

3) Season 2

4) Season 3

5) Season 4 Episodes 1-8

6) Third Space - Movie

7) Season 4 Episodes 9-22

8) In the Beginning - Movie

9) Season 5 Episodes 1-21

10) A River of Souls - Movie

11) Legend of the Rangers - Movie

12) Season 5 Episode 22


Crusade

1) A Call to Arms - Movie
2) Season 1


The Lost Tales
1) Voices in the Dark
I would agree,with one small change,Watch "In the Beginning" then "The Gathering" everything else looks timeline correct. I feel that "In the Beginning" is what the pilot should have been.Hindsight and all I guess.
post #138 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy evans
I would agree,with one small change,Watch "In the Beginning" then "The Gathering" everything else looks timeline correct. I feel that "In the Beginning" is what the pilot should have been.Hindsight and all I guess.
Ugh. Please NO! In The Beginning has some MAJOR SPOILERS and should not be watched till sometime in S4. I dunno why folks keep suggesting this.

--
H
post #139 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Ugh. Please NO! In The Beginning has some MAJOR SPOILERS and should not be watched till sometime in S4.
Absolutely agree. In The Beginning is easily the best of the movies, but it spoils so many mysteries and plot developments from the first couple of seasons that it should never be viewed first. End of season 4, which is the point when the film was made, is the only place to watch it.

Quote:
I dunno why folks keep suggesting this.
The only reason I can think is that people think that The Gathering is a weak entry point (and, admittedly, it is), and that In The Beginning is a stronger point to start at (which it would be, if it weren't for those pesky spoilers).
post #140 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

But what about the sock puppets?
Think about what could have been!
post #141 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewLouwrens
Absolutely agree. In The Beginning is easily the best of the movies, but it spoils so many mysteries and plot developments from the first couple of seasons that it should never be viewed first. End of season 4, which is the point when the film was made, is the only place to watch it.

The only reason I can think is that people think that The Gathering is a weak entry point (and, admittedly, it is), and that In The Beginning is a stronger point to start at (which it would be, if it weren't for those pesky spoilers).
Hey Guys, Mabey I misread Jeff's post. I thought He said He has seen the series but It's been a few years. So I didn't think spoilers would be an issue.Wasn't trying to ruffle feathers and all.Also, Yes I do think "In the Beginning" is much stronger than "The Gathering".I thought "The Gathering" had more flash than substance.I guess J. Micheal thought He had to sell it. He was more than likely right in that thinking or We wouldn't be Here with "The Lost Tales" Now.
post #142 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

I finally got around to watching TLTs last night. I am a huge fan of this "universe" and was looking forward to new stories.

I was hoping to be able to come in here and heap on the praise. Unfortunately I was left a little disappointed. It really kills me to have to say that.

I will certainly be buying the next disc, but I hope that as they move on, they get a bigger budget.

My biggest beef was the obvious budget issues. The whole first story felt like it was shot in 2 rooms and a hallway. There was virtually nothing to suggest this was even on B5. I know that there was only so much they could do, but I was hoping for more I guess.

The second episode was better. I think they spent much more on this one.

I truly hope this direct to dvd model works. Even a low budget episode is better than nothing. I just am really hoping that the sales are good enough to make the suits pony up a little more for the next one.

On the plus side. I agree with the previous posters about the subtle tribute to Andreas and Richard. They are really missed.
post #143 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S
I will certainly be buying the next disc, but I hope that as they move on, they get a bigger budget.

My biggest beef was the obvious budget issues. The whole first story felt like it was shot in 2 rooms and a hallway. There was virtually nothing to suggest this was even on B5. I know that there was only so much they could do, but I was hoping for more I guess.

On the one hand with the budget, I thought JMS said that this disc was the prototype to show that they could do it on such a budget. Of course, sales on this disc might give WB the confidence to provide a bigger budget. In addition, they were basically starting from scratch here, so any of the computer models, virtual and physical sets they created for this disc are a starting point for future episodes, so with even the same budget they should be able to do more.

Neil
post #144 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

One other idea about the budget limitations. If sales on this disc gives WB the confidence to proceed, maybe they'll have an "order" for a series of releases. Then they can film and produce more than one DVD at a time. Spreading the costs over a series of releases would save costs and allow them to get more bang for the buck.

Neil
post #145 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilO
If sales on this disc gives WB the confidence to proceed, maybe they'll have an "order" for a series of releases. Then they can film and produce more than one DVD at a time.

This would probably be the best solution.

I wonder how the sales are going? I wonder if we will ever really know?
post #146 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
Mabey I misread Jeff's post. I thought He said He has seen the series but It's been a few years.
I just went back and rechecked, and you're right, he did say that he had seen the show a long time ago. In that case, screening In The Beginning first would be a reasonable way to start.
post #147 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Well Joseph, it has been released a week now..... How are the sales numbers? LOL

Seriously though, has anyone heard anything yet from the "power that be" on if the sales are as expected or better than expected?

Even after a week, it is still in the Amazon top ten. Surely that has to be better than expected?
post #148 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Well my initial impression:

I liked it. I think it suffered from the tight budget (WB clearly wanted to be sure of breaking even with even modest DVD sales, and nearly everything had to be created from scratch), but it was a good start-up vehicle. (It is easy to forget how much of an experiment this disc is. Nobody has ever done a direct-to-disc spin-off or sequel to a TV series, much less one that has been out of production for nearly a decade and not even available in reruns for about five years.)

The biggest problem I saw was that, with the Garibaldi segment dropped, the remaining two stories had to be stretched a bit to make it "feel" more like a movie (at 75 minutes), instead of remaining at 30 minutes each and leaving the disc feeling like 1 episode that cost $15. There's also the fact that the Garibaldi segment was supposed to tie-in to the other two thematically, as well as overlapping in time (it would have explained why he was a question mark for the anniversary celebration), so we don't really know what the "whole" was supposed to look like. The other problem the budget cause was the lack of background extras in the corridors and the wide-shots, even computer generated ones. The bits of the station we saw seemed oddly empty.

That said, I enjoyed both stories. The Lochley segment was too talky, and given the nature of the story there wasn't much JMS could do to "pad" it besides pile on more philosophical and theological dialogue. Unlike some people I don't think the story establishes that the guy was "really" possessed, or that a demonic entity was "really" imprisoned on Earth. It could all still be alien hocus pocus. That the guy spoke in those terms and the priest and Lochley accepted the event that way only tells us what they may have believed.

Anyway, I'll bet Tracy had fun with it. I seem to recall reading somewhere that she's Catholic, so she should have been on familiar ground. The HD cameras were not especially kind to her, but she's still a striking woman. (OTOH I saw Michelle Pfeiffer on Letterman in HD last night and she still looks incredible, little lines around the eyes and all. She must have a painting of herself in her attic that looks like Hell. )

The second segment was better in every way, even to Boxleitner have aged better. I liked the new Centauri character, I liked Sheridan's moral dilemma and the fact that he really wrestled with it, and I liked the fact that Galen probably didn't much care which solution ended the threat as long as one of them did. By the end of the second story I felt very much that I was back in the B5 universe.

Have no idea what sales are like beyond the purely anecdotal evidence of Amazon.com sales rankings and top 10 lists at other sites. Of course it was precisely the Amazon pre-order numbers for the first TV movie "test disc" the goaded WB into approving the release of the season one set, and the very strong sales of season one that got them to accelerate the release of the later seasons and start producing the extras for one season before the previous season had even been released. Video Business Magazine should have sales charts up to cover this period in a couple of weeks and I'll try to see if it shows up in the Top 50 or Top 25 titles list.

(They don't give actual numbers, just relative position based on sales reports from a mix of major brick & mortar and on-line stores.)

My gut feeling is that sales were more than enough to justify a 2nd disc, but that JMS is too busy with other projects right now to give the whole thing much thought. (He's on deadline for the next draft of his Silver Surfer this week - I'm writing on August 9th - and Clint Eastwood is supposed to start directing Angelina Jolie in his original screenplay, The Changeling, sometime next month. So he'll have to keep himself available for that.)

WB is probably also going to use both the finished disc and the sales numbers to try to sell The Lost Tales as an on-going project, perhaps a series of TV movies like Columbo or Jesse Stone, to a TV or cable network. If that happens JMS will want to set up a schedule that will work with his other projects and allow for production to take place with the accustomed Babylonian efficiency. If we're lucky that might mean shooting something next spring or summer, but if we're really lucky it might mean 6 stories and two discs/movies produced in 2008, and maybe the same in 2009. (And if whatever it is does well on TV it is not inconceivable that some network might be interested in reboot of Crusade and/or that the idea of a theatrical film might be revived.)

Don't forget, the whole TLT project started with WB coming to him and offering to finance and distribute a theatrical film (JMS owns the theatrical rights to the property, not WB) after reviewing the aggregate sales figures for the DVDs. JMS turned them down, because he wasn't emotionally ready to write a major, full-cast project like that so soon after the deaths of Richard Biggs and - especially - Andreas Katsulas. He suggested The Lost Tales as an alternative that he felt like he could tackle now.

Regards,

Joe
post #149 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

I still don't see how B5 could ever work as a feature film, there's too much backhistory that would confuse the mainstream public, I think this anthology series is the best possible alternative
post #150 of 242

Re: Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

Quote:
I still don't see how B5 could ever work as a feature film, there's too much backhistory that would confuse the mainstream public

People keep saying this, and I just don't see the problem. The only backstory anyone needs to enjoy a film is the backstory that applies to the particular tale that film is telling. You didn't need to know 20 years of comicbook history to watch X-Men or 5 years of TV series history to watch X-Files or (to use another letter of the alphabet) 30 years of episodes, novels and fan culture to enjoy the Trek films, particularly the 2nd and 4th ones. None of these films could have succeeded at the box office without attracting non-fans who would know none of the backstory.

(For that matter you don't need to know the entire history of England - or even the previous Henry plays - to enjoy Henry V or every incident in the Trojan War from the Judgment of Paris on to enjoy The Odyssey. )

Don't believe me? Everything you needed to know to follow the story of Terminator 2 and enjoy the film was conveyed in a voice-over and a few images in under five minutes before the main titles. Nobody said, "This sequel will never work because there's too much backstory from the first film we'll have to cover."

You don't need to go into a million years of history explaining the Vorlon-Shadow conflict to tell the story of the Telepath War, for instance. The necessary information could be conveyed to an audience in five minutes of the screen time - ten at the outside, because only the parts of that history that impinge on the current storyline need to be related. And the teeps=mutants=oppressed minority story could be established in less time than that.

Regards,

Joe
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