Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released? - Page 4

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

We wouldn't be crazy for failing to support a WKRP DVD release that does not preserve the integrity of the show (i.e. removing scenes to avoid music licensing costs, song substitutions that are integral to the storyline, voiceovers). Hopefully this will not be the case, but I think we would be crazy to support a bastardized version of the show. I will be happy to support a release that doesn't have these potential caveats.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I have to agree. This is as close to seeing the series released as we're ever going to get and I'll definately be buying this set, if "The Price is Right."

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

While I agree removing scenes would be a deal-breaker, I'm not sure if deciding to boycott a release is at all productive...

Has there ever been an instance where fans boycotted a release and the studio came back with a fixed release? If not, what's the point of boycotting, except to ruin people's chances for enjoying the second and third seasons... beyond enjoying, of course, WKRP is a culturally relevant show that more people ought to have the opportunity to discover, even if it is almost thirty years old.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

You're entitled to your opinion, but I refuse to accept the label. Frankly, I think it's the 'fans' who accept edited versions who are crazy. I realize that WKRP may never get released correctly. But, IMO, the only way that it ever will get released correctly is if edited versions don't sell well. The dvd producers aren't crazy, and if you told them that they didn't have to fork out for music rights, and it wouldn't hurt sales one bit, then they'd do so. I am extremely sad that this is coming out edited, cause I know that it means there's even less chance that it'll come out unedited at some point, but I'll be damned if I'm going to reward a company for putting out an edited version of a show I love, and I'm sure as hell not going to watch some edited version.

I've used this example before, but it's every bit as relevant now. If the only way you could get your favorite Shakespeare play was in a version where every 10th word had been replaced, would you buy it and say, "well that's the only way I'm going to get it", or would you refuse to buy it? Cause buying WKRP with music replacement is no different than buying Romeo & Juliet with word replacement, "Romeo, wherefive art you, Romeo?"

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

This has never, ever happened before... right? That's my question--when "fans" have boycotted a release and then the DVD company turned around and remastered and repressed a release? Because, financially, it makes a bunch of sense to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to make... a thousand?

DVDs are not archival presentations, they're commercial ones. Anyway, I just want one example of a company rereleasing a TV season with original music after doing it with some replacements.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Unfortunately in this case I can't see that working. I *love* WKRP, it's one of my top 5 comedies ever, but if the edited S1 doesn't sell, not only won't we see an unedited one, but we won't see any other seasons.

I work on DVDs for a living, and I've experienced music clearance issues. Not only would the cost to totally clear WKRP make the set impossibly expensive, but it probably isn't actually possible to clear all of it. There are certain artists who flat out refuse to allow their songs to be used in any commercial products that are not directly theirs. And you can't force them to allow it no matter how big your pile of money is.

Just to give a real-life example, we were presented a real cool program about an extrordinarily famous celeb who has been gone for many years. It was created by her first husband and was full of video of her that has never been seen by anyone, anywhere. It was a 2 hour program that was full of really great and appropriate music. The plan was a really nice 2 Disc DVD that was going to MSRP for 24.95 - putting it on most shelves for $15-20.00. Then we went to clear the music. It added 15.00 to our cost of goods per unit. 15.00!, and absolutely put the release into the catagory of "we'll never ever sell nearly enough at the new price to recoup the deal". The ex-husband refuses to change any of the music because it's all "sentimental and appropriate" so I guarentee this thing will never see the light of day from any company.

Back to WKRP. The sad thing is that if all the bands just let classic TV shows use their songs it could be HUGELY beneficial to the bands. Think about how many new fans could end up "discovering" bands they weren't previously aware of by watching shows like WKRP and The Wonder Years. I do it all the time. I hear a song I really dig on an old TV show, google a lyric to find the title and buy it on iTunes. If I really dig it, I might buy an album or 2.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I don't know if poor sales have ever forced a fixing of a first season, but poor sales of season 1 have certainly forced some companies to do later seasons correctly. For instance, both The Cosby Show and Kung Fu had season 1 come out incorrectly. Less than expected sales (I'm amongst those who didn't buy them) led to later seasons being released in tthe right way, which I gladly bought.

Would lesser sales on season 1 lead them to redo season 1? Perhaps not. But it might lead to us getting later seasons with music intact. Yeah, you can say that poor sales would lead to the later seasons not being released at all, but tell that to Cosby and Kung Fu.

No one can say for certain what will or will not happen based on sales of season 1. All I can say with absolute certainty, is that any season of WKRP that comes out with music replacement is one I won't buy, and any that comes out complete is one I will buy.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

GK is quite correct. Since these studios have already pressed and produced copies of previously released seasons, they aren't going to repress it because it just raises their production costs and isn't cost effective but does lead to better released future seasons.

Since this news is available only to those who have online access I doubt that non internet users are going to complain too much as studios will still rake in some money fropm the sets ...

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

A couple of other examples that come to mind, if I remember correctly, are Northern Exposure and Quantum Leap. The first season or 2 of these had music replacement of critical songs that were important to the show. The fans complained loudly, and the later and final seasons featured the licensed music.

The studios sometimes do listen to the fans if they have a loud, legitimate complaint.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Sorry, but it is being anal. By refusing to buy a release, you're only hurting other fans who want it, and jeopardising futher DVDs. I agree, it depends on what the edits are, there's no way I'll accept cut scenes or missing scenes (ala syndication), but fans like me can live with changed/dubbed music, if it means this is the only way it's coming out relatively untattered. Refusing to buy for other reasons than cut scenes, is a rather selfish attitude.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Unfortunately, as I think someone else pointed out earlier, a shoddy Fox release of WKRP with missing scenes, key song replacement and dubbed voices will drive many fans to purchasing bootleg sets with the music intact.

I really hope Fox has the wisdom to keep the important songs and not remove scenes. If they do, I'm in for the entire series.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Absolutely. I wish all the songs could stay, but deep down I think we all know it's highly unlikely.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Cmon Henry, give me a break. You sound like Carlson's mother chastizing Johnny Fever. You're entitled to your opinion about what kind of edits you'd find acceptable, but it's bogus for you to accuse those of us with a different opinion as being selfish and trying to deny you future seasons. That kind of reasoning could easily be flipped around to say you're the one being selfish and denying me uncut future seasons. But in the end, everyone has to decide for themselves. I certainly disagree with anyone who thinks it's a good idea to buy WKRP with music replacement, and will certainly argue the logic that WKRP with music replacement does not equal WKRP, but rather a cheap shoddy impersonation of WKRP, but in the end, those who decide to buy it anyway are within their rights, and I might call them mistaken or misguided, but not selfish or false fans.

"Disco Sucks" - Dr. Johnny Fever, 1981
"Music Replacement sucks worse than disco" - Dr. Johnny Fever, 2006
"Disco's cool" - Rip Tide, 1981
"Anyone who doesn't buy WKRP on dvd cause of music replacement is a loser" - Rip Tide, 2006

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Okay, so just to clarify, you would not buy it with musical changes? I'd hate it too but I'd do it, and it appears to be the deal we're getting. But I want Fox to know this, I would NOT buy it with scenes missing.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I can see it now...Instead of Pink Floyd's "Dogs" playing throughout the scene, they can play Baha Men's "Who Let the Dogs Out". The scene can now look like this:

Johnny: Gripping music, huh?
Mr. Carlson: Yeah, that's good all right. What's the name of that orchestra?
Johnny (dubbed in): Baha Men.
Mr. Carlson (dubbed in): Oooh, is that Baha Men? Do I hear dogs barking on that thing?
Johnny: I do.

Yeah, this new release sounds like it may be quite an adventure. LOL!

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

One thing I should say about this issue -- and this is true every time it comes up -- "george kaplan" can buy and not buy whatever he wants. If he doesn't want a set with altered music, he shouldn't be expected to buy it just to support the release of future seasons. We all have our own standards for what we will or won't buy and there's nothing wrong with refusing to buy a set that has altered music.

For myself, I said years ago (see my old post in this forum, "How about WKRP without the music?") that what I would like to see is for the producers to identify songs that were absolutely essential to the scene, concentrate on clearing those songs that are "essential," and then see what's left over in the music budget. I hope Fox has done something like that.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Nope. Nor any other changes. Not cut scenes, not syndicated versions, not faux widescreen. Complete and unedited, including all music, or no sale.

I don't want to rehash the same old debate as in other such threads, but just to further clarify:

- the only time that edits of any sort are acceptable to me, and that I would buy a dvd with edits, is if they were truly impossible (not difficult - impossible) to obtain. For example, if a certain scene in a certain episode of WKRP were truly lost. With music replacement the corresponding bar would be set very, very high. There would have to be documented evidence that a song was truly unavailable (e.g., the artist said publicly that it was not available at any price). But I'll be damned if I'm going to give some greedy Hollywood producer (and let's face facts, the dvd makers are every bit as greedy as any music copyright holder) the benefit of the doubt. If the music is missing, and there's no evidence to the contrary, I'm going to assume that they were too cheap to pay for it and they simply were lazy and greedy (e.g., there's good evidence that such was the case in the horrendous music replacement at the end of the first arc of Wiseguy). Again, I understand that providing such evidence is not something that these guys are going to do, but without that, music replacement = no sale.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I'm with you except there are instances (like with any Ray Charles song) where the artist won't license it, no matter what. What is the studio supposed to do then?

Just out of curiosity, did they ever do a poll to see if people would buy at a higher price point to maintain the music. I know I would, especially for a great show like this. I wouldn't mind paying more if it meant the show would be intact.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

The R2 Quantum Leap S2 features Georgia On My Mind, and the R1 Quantum Leap S5 features the same.


That's a bit much. george isn't talking about organizing a boycott. He's simply refusing to buy something that he wouldn't enjoy, which is perfectly understandable. I'd love to have R1 Quantum Leaps 2 through 4, but I won't. And, you can't even get an intact fourth season in R2.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Well, note Greg's response to this particular example. However, in general, as I said earlier

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Then it's a no sale for you GK, which I think is being completely me-myself-I anal. 'My memory of this show is what counts, to Hell with other fans'. I really don't see the problem with a few music dubs, surely it's the least important part of the show, story, jokes, acting comes way before that. -Way before the Pink Floyd joke. Replace the music, keep or replace the band name; joke kept.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Henry,

Again, and again, you have the temerity to be the edit-police for what cuts should and shouldn't bother other people, and those who don't come to the same conclusion as you are either not true fans ("how could they buy something with syndicated versions?") or are too anal ("how you could they not buy something just because of these cuts which I, Henry the all-knowing, have dubbed minor?").

Well I do not bow to your judgment, nor will I accept your accusations that I am being anal or selfish for not buying an edited version just because you have proclaimed the edits minor. Buy or not as you wish, but please do not try to pronounce judgment on those who do not subscribe to your opinion.

Your opinion is just that - your opinion - not some subjective truth.

Let me see if I can save us some time here. I'll write out our next bunch of posts, and see if we can then avoid actually having to go through it.

Henry: "George Kaplan is just selfish and anal cause he won't buy WKRP even though I deem the cuts unimportant and minor"

George: "Henry, I do not accept your judgment of what is minor or unimportant. I will not buy these edited, and I do not accept your name-calling".

Henry: "George Kaplan is just selfish and anal cause he won't buy WKRP even though I deem the cuts unimportant and minor"

George: "Henry, I do not accept your judgment of what is minor or unimportant. I will not buy these edited, and I do not accept your name-calling".

Henry: "George Kaplan is just selfish and anal cause he won't buy WKRP even though I deem the cuts unimportant and minor"

George: "Henry, I do not accept your judgment of what is minor or unimportant. I will not buy these edited, and I do not accept your name-calling".

Henry: "George Kaplan is just selfish and anal cause he won't buy WKRP even though I deem the cuts unimportant and minor"

George: "Henry, I do not accept your judgment of what is minor or unimportant. I will not buy these edited, and I do not accept your name-calling".

Henry: "George Kaplan is just selfish and anal cause he won't buy WKRP even though I deem the cuts unimportant and minor"

George: "Henry, I do not accept your judgment of what is minor or unimportant. I will not buy these edited, and I do not accept your name-calling".

Henry: "George Kaplan is just selfish and anal cause he won't buy WKRP even though I deem the cuts unimportant and minor"

George: "Henry, I do not accept your judgment of what is minor or unimportant. I will not buy these edited, and I do not accept your name-calling".

Henry: "George Kaplan is just selfish and anal cause he won't buy WKRP even though I deem the cuts unimportant and minor"

George: "Henry, I do not accept your judgment of what is minor or unimportant. I will not buy these edited, and I do not accept your name-calling".

Henry: "George Kaplan is just selfish and anal cause he won't buy WKRP even though I deem the cuts unimportant and minor"

George: "Henry, I do not accept your judgment of what is minor or unimportant. I will not buy these edited, and I do not accept your name-calling".

[repeat ad infinitum, or until one of us puts the other on the ignore list]

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I'm merely being curious here, nothing wrong with that IMHO. Just super curious why song snippets can possibly be more important than the big picture, of a show genius both with and without them...

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

If you honestly don't understand why the gestalt of the show is more than just the sum of the various parts, which in and of themselves might seem dispensible, then I give up.

I could take almost any 15 second bit out of any episode of WKRP, and claim that what was left was still great. And you could snip another 10 seconds here, and another 30 seconds there. Pretty soon, what do you have? Syndicated cuts.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I thought you WEREN'T trying to convince others not to buy it (just stating your preference), because it sounds there like you are.

Also--a general question--these aren't going to be syndication edits, are they? Does Fox release syndication edits on DVD?

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Well, I guess I give up too George, if you think 'soundbites' and music bits is more important in WKRP, than Herb, Big Guy, Les and Johnny's legendary lines. I don't think it's half as important as dialogue. Me, I'm buying, provided no scenes are cut out or shortened.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

So what if he was? This isn't the "music replacement appreciation" thread. He has as much a right to try to convince people not to buy this as people in the Star Wars threads had a right to try to convince people not to buy the altered versions of those movies. I don't think the quote you chose is an example of this, but it wouldn't be a problem if it was.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I will not speak for George, but personally, my purchase decisions are not made based on what's best "for other fans", but on whether I think I'll enjoy the product -- after all, it's my money and my time. In the case of WKRP with significant music replaced, I do not believe I would enjoy the end result. Therefore, if significant music replacements do occur for this release, then this WKRP fan will pass on the DVD release.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

He never said that Henry...He never said it was more important. Just that any edit whatsoever is unacceptable to him. Your threshold is lower. Simple as that. There may be others whose threshold is lower than yours and believe you to be "selfish" because you wouldn't buy a set with a few simple scene edits.

That's it. Nothing more.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I get that, I have no problem with GK or his opinion, just don't agree that's all. HTF is an open debate forum, just putting forward my preferences on my fave sitcom, right. Still, we're not talking about G. Lucas changing SW because he egoistically thinks it's better that way, but a 30 year-old videotaped sitcom with music rights that sometimes can't be worked out, it may never be worked out. If something like this can make it through relatively untattered, it's a small miracle. IMO the song edits in the syndicated versions weren't all that bad, could've been worse. The Van Halen bit at Dale's radio shop was changed to some guitar doodling, scene did't lose anything 'jokey' from that, IMHO. But hey, fingers crossed and to each his own, as they say.