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Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released? - Page 9

post #241 of 650
4/2/07 at 8:30am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Martin
And just to clarify one point, according to that one review, only 2 episodes are the syndicated cuts.

Right, but unfortunately it looks like most of the other episodes have new cuts...
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post #242 of 650
4/2/07 at 8:43am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Martin
Who says it won't?

What alternative do the fans have? It isn't like they can just watch reruns on TV every day. I haven't seen it aired in a decade, at least.

Hardcore fans would buy it in any form. A hardcore fan will buy a title even if there is just an artwork change.

And just to clarify one point, according to that one review, only 2 episodes are the syndicated cuts. That is 2 too many, but still, it isn't the complete series.

The alternative for this fan of the show is a simple one... go without. While I would love to see the show that I enjoyed so much during its initial run, this is not that show. My life will go on just fine if I do not buy this release.
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post #243 of 650
4/2/07 at 8:44am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff*H
I completely disagree. Just look at the posts from the hardcore fans in this thread, the overwhelming majority of whom are not going to buy it and support a lousy product.

The problem with reading a larger picture from boards like this is that the audience of people who read these kinds of forums is a tiny percentage of the consumer audience. I would be very careful about trying to decide what "hardcore" fans are and aren't going to do.
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post #244 of 650
4/2/07 at 8:46am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katherine_K
The problem with reading a larger picture from boards like this is that the audience of people who read these kinds of forums is a tiny percentage of the consumer audience. I would be very careful about trying to decide what "hardcore" fans are and aren't going to do.
Normally, I would agree with you but I do think that the number of people who are refusing to buy this due to the music substitutions is more substantial in this case because the audience is very small (compared to a current show) for this release to begin with.
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post #245 of 650
4/2/07 at 8:51am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

In thinking about this news, I hate to admit that when I first saw WKRP on the first CBS network broadcasts, I didn't know most of the songs used on the show, but I still got the jokes and found it one of the funniest and refreshing sitcoms at the time. I was a senior in high school, and I didn't listen to a lot of contemporary rock then. So I didn't know Pink Floyd, Foreigner and even Fly Me to the Moon. But the jokes worked.

It's too bad these episodes are so badly altered. I am curious to hear more reviews and learn of the cuts and even see how the alterations play. But knowing the original jokes, like the Hot Blooded scene, there's going to be a sense of lose on these. And I never had the opportunity to see the syndicated broadcasts, only a few.

It would interesting to see poll results of a random group of people to ask how they feel about the music alterations. This would take the hardcore fans out of the equation.
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post #246 of 650
4/2/07 at 8:55am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield
The alternative for this fan of the show is a simple one... go without. While I would love to see the show that I enjoyed so much during its initial run, this is not that show. My life will go on just fine if I do not buy this release.

Then I don't think you would be considered a "hardcore fan".

For me, I loved the show. Watched it every week in the original airings, and in syndication in the 80's. And, even though it will be cut, I will still be getting it.

For people who truly love the show, edited copies, with replaced music, is better than not seeing it at all.

Why deprive yourself of a show you love because it isn't perfect?
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post #247 of 650
4/2/07 at 9:04am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_Cre
It seems to me that there must have been a point where it would seem logical at Fox to recognize how failed the project was pull the plug, and issue a well-polished statement regretting that they wouldn't be releasing WKRP. I think that would have been a both money- and face-saving move for the company.
Not to be overly cynical, but don't forget we are talking about the same parent company who came within minutes of publishing "If I Dit It" and airing a prime-time TV special in support of it. If it wasn't for a huge public outcry at the last moment (including their own network affiliates), they would have. It's all about the $$ and if there is a reasonably good chance of making a buck on it, someone at the top will invariably green-light a project like this... Especially when it can be done on the cheap, as appears to be the case here.
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post #248 of 650
4/2/07 at 9:05am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I think the bulk of purchasers will be the casual Wal-Mart-type shopper who enjoyed the show and aren't aware of the bloodletting that occurred with the DVD. However, I think that they alone will not be able to support the sales that Fox will require to justify a second season, given the age of the show and the lack of hardcore fan support (those being the fans who are aware of the changes).
Who knows for sure though? Hawaii Five-0 season 1 recently came out and the sales exploded (sell-outs online and in-stores, top 10 Amazon rankings), meaning LOTS of casual fans picked this set up. And that's a 40 year-old show. It was in the top 100 on Amazon weeks before it came out (however, WKRP is not).
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post #249 of 650
4/2/07 at 9:22am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDuBrow
I've always been in the 'music is less important' camp, still am. The fantastic characters are still the same, the great jokes are intact for the most part, this is such a wonderfully written show and most of the dialog is preserved. I want to see (and hear) this set, if it's really such a hack job...here's Fever doing a bit of music splicing himself...

For a show where their jobs were playing music, it is hard to separate the story and the music. Of course, the announcement of the music substitutions didn't surprise me at all. I thinkthat this set will be received with very little enthusiasm. I predict this will be the only season that will be produced to DVD.
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post #250 of 650
4/2/07 at 9:51am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
For people who truly love the show, edited copies, with replaced music, is better than not seeing it at all.
No offense at all Jon, but do speak for yourself here...I loved the show during its initial run and I'm not buyng this in the form reviewed.

Let me know how you feel once you've seen the Russian defector episode without Elton John's "Tiny Dancer" and they overdub him saying (as referenced previously) "Hold me closer terrible dresser". It ruins the joke, makes little to no sense and shows little respect to the original.

This has been hashed out before though, so it's a matter of opinion. I truly hope you get hours of enjoyment from the set. Just don't claim to be a bigger fan than those of us who don't want to support this release (and in return I won't claim to be a bigger fan than you).
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post #251 of 650
4/2/07 at 10:26am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Well...after reading that review...I'm not sure how I feel about this release. I was going to get it, if it looked like there was some kind of care and effort put into replacing the music so that it at least fit the scene. From what I read, it doesn't appear that this is the case. This is really, really sad. I hate to mark this one off my list, but it looks like I may have to. I think perhaps that Fox has really butchered this show up.
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post #252 of 650
4/2/07 at 10:31am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I HAD preordered this but I may just cancel it. I dont so much mind the music replacements, but them being edited syndicated cuts, I just dont know.
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post #253 of 650
4/2/07 at 11:32am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

It may not be a "Simpsons" seller, but it's still a show millions of people remember, so who's to say how much it'll sell. It may be just enough to justify more releases, I for one hope so, even in an unfortunate altered state, mostly because I love the show and desperately want it to be successful. I'd just hate to see WKRP fail (in any shape or form), and in any case it's bound to reach viewers new and unfamiliar with it. They won't have the same experiences with it that we did, but they may just like it the way it is now, as painful as that may sound... ;(
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post #254 of 650
4/2/07 at 11:46am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Martin
Then I don't think you would be considered a "hardcore fan".

For me, I loved the show. Watched it every week in the original airings, and in syndication in the 80's. And, even though it will be cut, I will still be getting it.

For people who truly love the show, edited copies, with replaced music, is better than not seeing it at all.

Why deprive yourself of a show you love because it isn't perfect?

I guess our definitions of hardcore fans are much different. This was one of my all-time favorite shows, and I would have gladly paid twice the price it's selling for... but not in this form.

To me, this is not the same show I loved during its initial run. The replaced music ruins many of the original jokes, so I'd rather not see the show at all than watch this bastardized version.

Each consumer will make his/her own decision and vote with his/her wallet. I'm voting NO with mine.
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post #255 of 650
4/2/07 at 4:12pm

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Then I don't think you would be considered a "hardcore fan".

For me, I loved the show. Watched it every week in the original airings, and in syndication in the 80's. And, even though it will be cut, I will still be getting it.

For people who truly love the show, edited copies, with replaced music, is better than not seeing it at all.

Why deprive yourself of a show you love because it isn't perfect?
I think you have a very warped idea of what a hardcore fan is. No one loves this show more than me, and I'm hardcore enough that, if it were done right, complete and uncut, I wouldn't think twice about shelling out $500 for season 1. I'm a hardcore fan. But that also means that I want to see WKRP in Cincinnati, and not KRAP in Detroit. The edited, music-replaced show you are going to buy is not WKRP in Cincinnati, but a cheap alternative that kind of looks like it, but isn't. A hardcore fan wouldn't touch it.

It's kind of like the story of Solomon and the baby. True hardcore fans are like the real mother who would rather give up the baby than get half of it. I'm not losing anything by passing on this, cause if I bought it, I still wouldn't be seeing WKRP.
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post #256 of 650
4/2/07 at 4:26pm

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

you're right george.
no one needs to defend anything to jon martin anyway.
if you want to by it jon have a ball.
but us fans who saw it as it was in the begining know what it was and this is not what it was.

i'm not buying it and dont judge me or anyone else or even label me if i dont buy it.

this is not wkrp in Cincinnati, it isnt even a reasonable facsimile
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post #257 of 650
4/2/07 at 4:29pm

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I don't know if this would make any kind of difference or not, and it's just an idea. What if we all went out and bought it, let it sit on our shelves for a couple of days so that it sells well, and then we return them stating our dissatisfaction. Am I naive, or does anyone else think that would be noticed?
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post #258 of 650
4/2/07 at 4:45pm

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis F
...does anyone else think that would be noticed?
In the extremely unlikely event that could be coordinated, they might notice but they won't care. Fox knows that there's a certain segment of the fans that will refuse to buy it because of the music replacement. Whether you buy it and return it or never even look at the box on the shelf, they'll be in the exact same spot of not getting your money.
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post #259 of 650
4/2/07 at 4:50pm

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis F
I don't know if this would make any kind of difference or not, and it's just an idea. What if we all went out and bought it, let it sit on our shelves for a couple of days so that it sells well, and then we return them stating our dissatisfaction. Am I naive, or does anyone else think that would be noticed?

I don't want to waste any more time or typing space about this slap-in-the-face-to-the-hardcore-fans, much less the time, gasoline, and oxygen involved in buying and returning this thing. I am a pissed-off hardcore fan who would rather steal all the copies off the shelves and take them to a landfill where they will never see the light of day. That's what you do with garbage.

BTW, here's something I found on another forum for those who wish to register their displeasure:
Fox Home Entertainment Hours of Operation (PST): M-F 8AM-5PM
1-888-223-2FOX
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post #260 of 650
4/2/07 at 5:40pm

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by george kaplan
I think you have a very warped idea of what a hardcore fan is.

I once had the complete set of a TV series on VHS that was released before DVD. When it was released on DVD, I sold the VHS on Ebay. I had someone buy it, who WAS what I consider a hardcore fan, who said that he had the DVD and, even though the episodes were identical, he wanted every version.

There are Criterion fans who buy up all of their DVDs, even films they don't like, just for the spine numbers. Those are hardcore fans.

There are music fans who buy EPs of songs that are already on CD, just for the artwork. Those are hardcore fans.

There are people who collect authors, buying up multiple versions of books, in different covers, from different countries.

For WKRP fans, who buy old TV Guides with the cast on the cover, lunch boxes, have the old VHS, why would they NOT buy this? It is, at the very least, a piece of memorablilia of the show. And, the first time that you can watch the "Turkey Drop" scene on DVD.

It is all a matter of opinion, and I'm not trying to change anyones, except to try and show why many of the fans of the show will still buy it.
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post #261 of 650
4/2/07 at 5:59pm

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

It's stupid to debate who is a "hardcore fan" and who isn't ... and it's stupid to debate "what a hardcore fan is". Who cares.

Guess what? I'm know I'm NOT even remotely a hardcore fan, but I would have bought this. Absolutely day and date.

However, as a consumer I absolutely will not support half-hearted product.

If I go to a restaurant and they only burn half my dinner, but the other half is edible, I don't think I should feel fortunate to have half of it. It sucks and I won't pay for it.
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post #262 of 650
4/2/07 at 6:01pm

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I think it's fair to say that george, Jon and many, many others posting here are hardcore fans who all seriously love WKRP in Cincinnati. Like all dysfunctional families, we show our love in many ways. Many of us are choosing to have nothing to do with this piece of shit that those chowderhead Fox yokels are foisting on us, and many others are choosing to support it which is fine, although I personally feel like you would be better off putting your money in a burlap bag and tossing it over a cliff.

Hopefully those of you who buy it can entertain those of us who don't with amusing tales of what those Fox pinheads did to these episodes that we all love.
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post #263 of 650
4/2/07 at 9:10pm

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

If someone wants to buy this set that is certainly their right.

But, the real tragedy in this whole fiasco is that for every dollar spent on their bastardized version of WKRP, Fox wins. Not only that, it further reinforces that they made the correct business decision to not secure ANY music licenses for the release and it will only be a matter of time before the same practice spreads to other Fox titles. Last but not least, if people buy this set in its current form you can rest assured that if Fox decides to release additional seasons of WKRP, they will be done in exactly the same way.
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post #264 of 650
4/2/07 at 9:55pm

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

One attribute I read about the possible future of downloadable material is that material can be tailored to a specific market, or very narrow niche market.

A publisher can create that special version for the small group that wants that specific version of product. So perhaps someday, where the ghost of Christmas Future shows the Big Guy a very old Herb Tarlek in that futuristic WKRP station, we could pay for a properly mastered version of WKRP in Cincinnati episodes for download.
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post #265 of 650
4/3/07 at 3:02am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

There are music fans who buy EPs of songs that are already on CD, just for the artwork. Those are hardcore fans.
Yes, but you miss the point. I'm a hardcore Beatle fan and have many rare memorabilia, including a Butcher cover, [shh]bootlegs[/shh], Russian 45s, etc.

But, I have never bought, nor would I, some version of the White Album in which half the songs are done by Lawrence Welk. I don't really expect you to understand this, but there are products that might be Beatle related that a hardcore Beatle fan would scoff at, not buy.
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post #266 of 650
4/3/07 at 7:06am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Martin
I once had the complete set of a TV series on VHS that was released before DVD. When it was released on DVD, I sold the VHS on Ebay. I had someone buy it, who WAS what I consider a hardcore fan, who said that he had the DVD and, even though the episodes were identical, he wanted every version.

There are Criterion fans who buy up all of their DVDs, even films they don't like, just for the spine numbers. Those are hardcore fans.

There are music fans who buy EPs of songs that are already on CD, just for the artwork. Those are hardcore fans.

There are people who collect authors, buying up multiple versions of books, in different covers, from different countries.

For WKRP fans, who buy old TV Guides with the cast on the cover, lunch boxes, have the old VHS, why would they NOT buy this? It is, at the very least, a piece of memorablilia of the show. And, the first time that you can watch the "Turkey Drop" scene on DVD.

It is all a matter of opinion, and I'm not trying to change anyones, except to try and show why many of the fans of the show will still buy it.


yes but in spite of the artwork, the interior is still intact as it was origionally produced.

that is a bad argument and does not apply to this wkrp thing.

'krp is not intact and there was no origional artwork.
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post #267 of 650
4/3/07 at 7:31am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Anyone remember the group that removed curse words & "adult" material from popular Hollywood films to make them "family friendly"?

They bought a legitimate DVD for each altered one they offered for rental. They weren't trying to make money off of the studio's content, just providing a "clean alternative".

The studios (including probably FOX) cried fowl. They said this group couldn't alter their artistic vision.

I understand the group had good intentions, but they can't mess with someone else's artistic work & the studios had a point.

But it would be nice if the studios were consistent with their own hot air. They would rather defend their right to curse, but they don't feel any integrity when it comes to releasing their own product correctly because it costs them a little bit of money.

Oh how hypocritical they are.
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post #268 of 650
4/3/07 at 7:51am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Anyone considering getting it for the extras only? You can always throw out the rest, and keep the featurettes...
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post #269 of 650
4/3/07 at 8:01am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

If I was one of the people who chose to participate in the extras featured in this travesty, the only thing I would be able to talk about in the commentary is how Fox completely f*cked my life's work and ruined a great show.
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post #270 of 650
4/3/07 at 8:23am

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

What I find frustrating about this (beyond the obvious) is that this was an opportunity for Fox to take a leadership role among the studios and find a creative solution to the problem of music clearances. Why not split the release into volumes as they had done with Lost In Space, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, etc. and keep the MSRP the same as per volume as what they're charging for the "complete" first season set? Fans already said they'd pay more for this set with original music and Joe Sixpack could shell out the $30.00 for 1 volume at a time.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, direct response via the internet at a higher price point similar to Rhino Handmade?

Hell, I'd rather sit through forced advertisements on the DVD if it kept the content intact.

My point is that we all know the cost of music clearances is a fact of life. Why not start seeking alternatives to offset the cost of this?
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