Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released? - Page 8

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I think it's really strange that shows that were less popular and would probably make less money on dvd like Crime Story (Anchor Bay) or SCTV (Shout Factory) have a almost 95% correct music ratio. These shows had as much music (or more) to clear then WKRP and were released by smaller studios that you would assume had less money to clear the music. You have to wonder why they waited so long to release these dvd's when there was clearly no attempt clear the music rights to begin with. It's not like it took them 10 years to clear nothing.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Music rights are not simply a matter of volume. The problem with clearing music in the current system is that it is done by song and it's impossible for us to know how much the particular songs in WKRP were, or if they were even available at any price.

I have a lot of sympathy for studeos on music rights, but I think there is a line at which point I wouldn't buy a set. I admittedly was never going to buy this set, but I think the combination of music replacement, double sided discs, and edited episodes would have been a killer for me.

The key words in that statement though is... for me. I'm not about to demonize Fox when I don't know the details of the music clearance in this case. And I dare say, neither do most of you. The fact that X other show from X other studeo got a lot of music cleared is irrelevent unless it was the exact same songs.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I'm disappointed, but not surprised, by this news. Fox just saved me some money, since there is no way I will purchase this abomination.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

An excellent post that really expresses my thoughts on this issue. However, I won't purchase this release moreso because of the edited cuts than the music substitution issue.




Crawdaddy

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I agree completely, Robert. I was perfectly willing to accept (and expecting) WKRP to contain music substitutions if they were tastefully done. Since it was rumored that Hugh Wilson was involved in the process, I naively hoped it would turn out okay. But when you start by sourcing from syndicated versions of the program, then making further cuts before mastering to DVD, and you have have the audacity to label the whole thing as "The COMPLETE First Season," you are simply asking for trouble!

People here are suggesting that we contact Fox about our disappointment with the set. In all honesty, I can't imagine it doing any good. This decision was made a long time ago. It is NOT a little production error on their part. It is a calculated business ploy and one that I hope backfires spectacularly.

Lastly, where is Hugh Wilson in all of this?? He was so passionate about WKRP during its network run, I can't imagine him being happy with his creation getting such shoddy treatment.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Wow, thank you Katherine K. for clearing that up. I now know it is not a matter of volume when it comes to clearing music rights and that they worked just as hard to clear nothing on WKRP as they did to clear hundreds of songs for SCTV and Crime Story. I'm guessing they worked so hard to clear nothing that they released some 22 min syndicated WKRP episodes by mistake. I now know that the people who put WKRP together did there best and weren't simply hacks who didn't give a damn about the show. This amazing set was 10 years in the making and I think we should really just step back in awe at what they accomplished.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I think given how little music is left in this set, it's fair to assume that Fox wasn't going on a song-by-song basis, trying to license the songs they could -- it was just wholesale slash n' burn. Or, to put this another way, it's a case of trying to produce a WKRP DVD set on a very small budget (which is, unfortunately, the only kind of budget the company will probably approve for a 1978 show). I can think of some shows where certain songs just weren't available or were too expensive. This isn't like that. After all, "Hot Blooded" has already appeared in two Fox TV DVDs (King of the Hill and The Simpsons have both used it).

I remember when I heard the rumor that Pink Floyd wasn't in this set, I was disappointed but assumed that this was a particular case where Fox had tried to get the song and found it was unavailable or too expensive. But given the state of the music in the set, I now have to assume that they just didn't have the budget to pay for almost any music at all -- and if that was the case, I don't think they should have been doing this set. I don't think any of us fans understood how cheaply this was being done.

As for cutting dialogue, the reason this is done is that the original elements are lost or unavailable, so they can't separate the dialogue track from the music. If the music is changed, the dialogue can't be included. But again, this is evidence of why they shouldn't have done the set if they couldn't pay for these songs.

Also, as I said earlier, even without the original elements, the original songs could still be put back because the original soundtracks are all over the place -- master tapes of the '80s syndication version, which kept most of the music, are very easy to find. (They're the basis for all those bootlegs with the original music but syndication cuts.) So either Fox didn't know where to find the original soundtracks or, much more likely, they weren't interested in putting back any of the original music. Again, if fans had known about this stuff we'd have been pretty clear that this would not be a good way to release the show.


Turns out the discs are single-sided, though. That makes everything OK.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Another thing that upsets me about this $hitty release is that, in addition to not giving a crap what the die-hard fans think and not spending a dime to make this set worthwhile, Fox is counting on the mom-and-pop Wal-mart shoppers who watched the show way back when to see this on shelves and think "We used to love that show, let's get it". They will bring it home, pop it in and as they watch the episodes it will become very clear that there is no real music in the thing like they remembered. Fox gets away with this by their crappy little disclaimer on the set, when in fact it is misleading. It says "SOME musical content has been changed..." when in fact it should say "All the music you loved in this show has been changed, enjoy!"

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

with what i've heard about certain songs being replaced I will not be adding
WKRP to my collection

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

It's sad that music cost so much, when these WKRP songs are not even played in full but in very short bits only. Instead of catering to the 'moms & pops' casuals, Fox should've realized the incredible cult following this show has, if you consider yourself a hardcore WKRP fan you wouldn't mind paying what it would've cost to do it right. I wonder if they will release sets beyond the first season now, what do you think?

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Either you're very naive or this is an amusing April Fool's Day joke.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

That is my feeling. I loved the show, one of my favorites, but haven't seen it since the 80's.

Yes, it isn't ideal. But it was the characters I remembered, not the music. Yes, I remembered some of that music changed, but I remember Les and Herb a lot more.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Goes double here. However, I know that Fox isn't 100% to blame, but they could've done a better job at it. Mostly I blame the recording industry though...

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I thought of one extra Fox should include for the fans: a videotaped apology from creator Hugh Wilson. He obviously went along with this.

If I were to bet, I would say there won't be any further seasons of WKRP put on DVD based on simple economics. The first season is typically the best-selling season of a show. Fox spent very little on season 1 other than the typical production costs, although they did inexplicably splurge on single-sided discs (???). Since Season 1 will not sell to the hardcore fans, they have effectively eliminated up to 1/2 or 1/3 of their target market. If they were counting on this portion of the target market to buy it, then their actual sales figures will come up short against their projected sales. Therefore, the economics will not justify them spending further money on a cut-up second season, which will only sell fewer units than the first season.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

So you work for Fox and have inside knowledge of what's happening with this set?

It's just as possible that Hugh Wilson is seething with rage over the music replacements and Fox said "Tough shit. Live with it" and he had absolutely no recourse.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

As noted elsewhere (http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=6708), Hugh Wilson supposedly had input with the studio and thought Fox did a good job with the music replacement. He contributed commentary on several cut-up episodes and was presumably paid for it. I'm not sure why he would want to put his name on a product like this, as it strikes me as something of an endorsement.
And no, I don't work for Fox but I do work with studio execs, unfortunately I have no special inside knowledge of the DVD release.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Comes down to greed. Not unusual. Music companies shoot themselves in the foot by overcharging for licensing and for music sales in general. And it's not as if the artists are going to gain a great deal more if a studio pays for re-use of popular songs. The music companies and publishers collect the lion's share. All bullshit.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

This is one of the few sitcoms I would have considered buying on DVD. What a shame.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Reading a lot of the comments, especially those wishing Fox wouldn't have put out the release and the wish that another company would have been licensed to put out WKRP.

I do wonder how Fox really thought this release was going fly, and make the type of return that would have made it a profitable allocation of its resources.

I know there has been a significant amount of abivalence towards music replacements/music editing on this forum, even a small degree of contempt toward the notion of keeping original music at any cost.

But given the wholesale music replacements, necessitated redubbing of dialog by different actors (given the amount of replaced music, some episodes will surely contain almost as much dialog read by non-WKRP actors as the actual actors), scenes edited out, and use of cut syndication versions, I am somewhat puzzled that Fox chose to go forward with this set, under the presumption that it would be a successful (read: profitable) project.

It seems to me that there must have been a point where it would seem logical at Fox to recognize how failed the project was pull the plug, and issue a well-polished statement regretting that they wouldn't be releasing WKRP. I think that would have been a both money- and face-saving move for the company.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

They should have just sold the rights to Shout Factory or another interested company. They probably would have made more money in the long run and wouldn't have got so much bad press from the fans.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

A portion of the link you gave reads "Hugh Wilson, creator of the series, has heard some* of the replaced music and thought Fox did a good job". So it would appear that he didn't hear all the changes and just becase he had input doesn't mean that they agreed on anything. In other words, saying that he should apologize for the release based on what you know is completely unfair.

*emphasis mine

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I would have bought this on opening day as it was a very funny show, but not now.

However, I've gotten just about as many laughs reading through this thread. Way to go you bunch of FOX imbeciles!!!

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I understand your point, that Wilson may not have been aware of the extent of the music replacement that Fox was undertaking. Nonetheless, it's his baby, and to willingly participate in a mutilated version of his own creation (via commentaries on butchered episodes, approval of some of the new music) rather than fighting Fox on it by refusing to participate suggests a form of endorsement on his part. I doubt Fox is sharing the DVD profits with him, since they own the show. Maybe he needed a paycheck, or was lied to by the studio, but to me it casts him in a bad light as well. I would love to see an interview with him to hear his thoughts on how this project turned out and to set the record straight.

On a side note, this release does not bode well for those 3 or 4 fans waiting for "The NEW WKRP in Cincinnati" season one release. However, in that case, cutting out scenes would only make it better.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Hey ,why not just buy it for the extras? There seem to be some cool featurettes, so the price of admission isn't totally wasted. Did I miss something, or is it only one episode being a 22 mins. syndicated version ("Hoodlum Rock")?

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I was going to buy this set but changed my mind because of the deliberate cuts and syndicated episodes used. I could have lived with sme of the music changes, I understand that some songs can't be licesnsed, but the complete non-use of original songs and cut/changed scenes in the Song Contest episode could ruin the episode. I love the characters too but the songs were too integral to the humour in that episode. This set is turning into a huge disappointment.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I've always been in the 'music is less important' camp, still am. The fantastic characters are still the same, the great jokes are intact for the most part, this is such a wonderfully written show and most of the dialog is preserved. I want to see (and hear) this set, if it's really such a hack job...here's Fever doing a bit of music splicing himself...

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

I read this as sarcasm.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Who says it won't?

What alternative do the fans have? It isn't like they can just watch reruns on TV every day. I haven't seen it aired in a decade, at least.

Hardcore fans would buy it in any form. A hardcore fan will buy a title even if there is just an artwork change.

And just to clarify one point, according to that one review, only 2 episodes are the syndicated cuts. That is 2 too many, but still, it isn't the complete series.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Sad to hear that the CBS broadcasts will never see the light of day ever again.

Re: Enough already Fox. Are we EVER going to see WKRP released?

Bootlegs with original music

I completely disagree. Just look at the posts from the hardcore fans in this thread, the overwhelming majority of whom are not going to buy it and support a lousy product.