*** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Re: The Prestige

Roeper and A.O. Scott gave it two thumbs up.

~T

Re: The Prestige

That's Bowie? Wow. I never would have recognised him. Even knowing its him, I'm having difficulty believing it.

Re: The Prestige

What sort of films do you like?

A friend of mine who does a LOT of reading told me that the novel The Prestige is really fantastic. He's very excited about the movie.

Re: The Prestige

The first paragraph of this review:

http://murphysmoviereviews.net/2006Films/prestige.html

has me very excited.

*** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Just came back from the theater and all I have to say is; brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. I haven't seen a better film this year since back on June 28th. Nolan is a genius.

Re: The Prestige Review

"Are you watching closely?" is the absolute right way to describe this film. About midway through, I had the film figured out and yet, the film made me disbelieve certain things about it, even though it's all right there...in front of you! And that's the trick of the film and the trick of magicians themselves.

But, the real story is about obsession and devotion to one's craft and how far you're willing to go.

Another great and entertaining film from Christopher Nolan. Three and a half stars....Easily one of the best films this year.

Re: The Prestige

Amazing film.

Spoiler below:

The way Fallon was always in shadow and his face was obscured tipped me off they they were twins but I second guessed myself when Olivia made a point that the fingers of the other man in the trick were also missing, not realizing the lengths the brothers were willing to go to keep up the illusion. I really need to see it again to focus on how Bale plays both sides of the same coin.

Re: The Prestige

9/10 for me..wife gave it a 4/10.

Re: The Prestige Discussion thread

My wife brought up a really interesting point on the way home from seeing this movie...early on, when Angier's wife dies, we are led to believe it's because of negligence on the part of Borden. However, my wife pointed out that it might have been Borden's twin who tied the knot, and perhaps he had never done it before, which led to the death of Angier's wife.

I thought that was an interesting theory...think there's any truth to it? The movie never really says either way, as far as I can remember.

Re: The Prestige Discussion thread

Chris,

For the entire day, I've been thinking about nothing else but this film and that theory is definitely in the realm of possibility...and it would just go to show the audience just how devoteed the Borden brothers where to their craft, even during a sad and tragic event one of them ended up causing...if said person did in fact screw up with the knots.

Still, that theory is sound.

Another example is the scene where Borden escorts Sarah home and she won't let him in and when she turns around, he's there in the apartment. Again, at first, it seems like magic but thinking back on it, it was the two brothers, devoteed totally to the art...and this is how far they took their devotion. Astounding, I say.

As for the ending Adam, you go it. The last shot was just to show how many times he did the act...how far he was willing to kill himself for the admiration and respect of the audience he so greatly desired. It's sad to see what both men lost in the end of this game....that's the most interesting aspect of the film....how far they took it.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Great film.

Nolan always presents you with a conflicted protagonist, and you're not sure if you should root for him or not. No matter what though, it's always an interesting journey.

During every trick, I always felt a sense of dread building, particularly when the dove trick is about to be performed and a few volunteers from the audience are called up...

The performances were awesome; I thought Bowie's Tesla was wonderfully restrained and underplayed. The look on his face as he's getting in the carriage after the building is set fire was very memorable.

I can't remember October being such a great month for movies, with this and The Departed already out.

Re: The Prestige Discussion thread

Chris, I pointed that out to my wife as well. He honestly doesn't know because he wasn't there But which one is Fallon and which one is Alfred?

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Chuck,

The answer to your question might have to do with Bale's left eye brow in the film. This is how my wife picked up on the fact that Borden was a twin. I figured it out a totally different way (Bale's mannerisms and one particular shot with him in the Fallon costume.).

Alfred's left eyebrow has a line throw it where hair is missing. Fallon's does not. Or is it vice versa? This is what my wife says. I'll find out later today when I go back.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Yes, there was the matter of the vertical line of missing hair in the left side of left eyebrow that kept coming and going for one of the Bordens.

So what did Angiers do with all those bodies? The "Xerox machine before its time" was a cheat that didn't quite sit well with me. It might get better if I see it again.

Where did Olivia go? Perhaps I lost track of who sent her away for whom.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

I accidently posted this thread in the review but meant it to be here. No one I didn't get any replies. No one saw it!

Saw it last night, I had not been looking forward to a movie this much since Pirates 2 and it was every bit as good as I had hoped. Fiancee loved it too. We loved the twist and turns.

I need someone to do a me a favor though, I am not 100% sure I got the very very end, like the literal last 2 seconds. Michael Caine is narrating again and he stops on a single word and it shows (If I remember right) another copy of Hugh Jackman dead in a tank right? So what was that last shot telling us the audience? We already knew he had been killing the copies so if there was another underlying point to that last narration and that final quick shot, I think we missed it.

Still an excellent movie, and it needs another viewing!

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

See post #12

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

They trade off constantly. He says as much when he 'confesses' to Angier. So, both play Fallon at any given time. They also both play each other, which is why he honestly couldn't remember what knot he tied...his brother tied it.

I mostly didn't care for the film. Well done, well acted...but, nothing worth anything. Both main characters are pricks. Neither of them is essentially worth spending time with, and neither becomes better. The 'trick' is ok...but, nothing mind blowing. Add to that, the Tesla thing is both annoying and, apparently real. No trick at all, and never explained. Sort of a cop out if you ask me.

As for supporting characters - they are all cardboard cut outs. No depth, no nothing. And Johannsen just goes away near the end! Too funny...and, you know what? I couldn't have cared less.

I guess despite the cleverness, I didn't care for the film because I didn't care for anything or anyone in it.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

I hope noone ,who has yet to watch the flick, read this discussion AOY...

(Admin note - in the official discussion threads, no spoilers are required for discussing the film in question. It's assumed that the reader has seen the movie, or isn't bothered by spoilers.)

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Saw it earlier. Great movie.

One thing that got to me was Alfred's relationship with his wife and child. The sacrifice of it. On one hand, he loves his wife, but he can't really express it to her, even when he's in the next room. I'm assuming it was Alfred who loved Sarah, get her pregnant, etc. But why the constant trade off? There's the crucial scene in their marriage (their last scene together). Presumably, it's Fallon telling her he doesn't love her. Meanwhile, Alfred's in the next room with his daughter. Did Sarah know they were brothers? She knew something, but when I viewed the scenes, I did so thinking she was actually speaking to Alfred and addressing him as such, so it'll be an interesting thing to pick up on next time.

Did Christian Bale actually play the brother in the makeup? I never really guessed it in the end, but I did notice some of the clues but failed to put two and two together. Alfred loved Fallon much more than I assumed he would considering the character is in the shadows most of the time. Not to mention Fallon's love for Alfred's daughter (though, of course this is actually Alfred, but I'm going by what I knew at the time). I also noticed Bale's eyebrow, but I spent most of the time wondering whether or not he had that in Batman Begins! I noticed it was gone in other shots when I remembered about it, but I figured the angle just hid it. But in the end, what fooled me is that last closeup shot of Fallon/Alfred/whoever - just the guy in the makeup. Prior to that, I never really got a good look at the character, but that shot seemed to cement it, because I didn't think the two looked alike. Actually, there was something in the back of mind that there was something definitely up with the character's appearance, but I disregarded it. I guess for most of the film, he did look like a guy in a bad wig and fake beard, but that shot actually made him look real.

So Fallon took the drop and let his brother live? That's sacrifice! And also, it was Fallon behind bars the whole time? That's fairly confusing. I realize when I think of the Alfred character, I automatically assume it's the one that made it out but is it really the one we got to know? It's all pretty mind warping.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Thought it was awesome. Nice twists and left you with a lot to talk about.

One thing though, since Cane's character was seen at thd with Alfred, did he know all the time they were brothers? If so, that means he was telling Jackman the truth the whole time, he was using a double lol.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Just saw it this afternoon, and after reading the remarks here, I'm anxious to see it again, though I will likely wait until it's out on DVD.

Dumb question: was it established for sure that Fallon was a twin? I thought that Borden had gotten a Tesla machine for himself and made a double. Now I'm feeling pretty stupid, and wondering how I missed the movie establishing it was a twin, not a Tesla clone.

Thought the film does a great job making you flip flop your loyalties, and even has you thinking that Borden is cheating on his wife and blowing off his daughter. He sort of is, but it makes more sense for him to send Fallon to the zoo if he's a clone or twin and the child doesn't know.

In the scene where Fallon was buried alive, I guessed that Borden was somehow still alive and pulling the strings to get Borden convicted and executed. I wasn't disappointed that I guessed, as the movie still had plenty of surprises to give and, indeed, the movie really isn't about surprises. As others have remarked, it's about obssession.

I don't know that I'll own it, but I will certainly be giving it a second viewing.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Caught the film a second time this afternoon and it's even more ingenious than it already was.

First off, Fallon not Alfred, was the one who married and loved Sarah and had the child with, not Alfred. At the end of the film, it's Fallon coming to get his daughter, not Alfred. I made that mix up the first time I saw it but seeing it a second time, you appreciate the nuance of Bale's performance. Fallon is the one who exacts revenge on Angier at the end, eventhough he wasn't the one playing the game with Angier.

The more aggitated of the Borden brothers in the film is Alfred. And the visual key is the left eyebrow.

Originally, I thought Cutter knew very early on that Alfred had a brother but seeing it today made it clearer. He had his suspicions because of the "Transported Man" trick but it wasn't until Angier took possession of Fallon's daughter that he went out and found out that Alfred had a twin.

Another thing about the film I love is the Tesla. After researching, it's fact that Tesla was in Colorado Springs in 1899 and that Edison and he were actual adversaries during that time. Also, Tesla's machine is based very closely on an actual diagram of Tesla's work. Plus, he did have theories that dealt with space and time. The film just took it further, since Tesla himself didn't know what his machine was, with the idea of duplicating or "cloning." Still, if you understand the film, Tesla's essentially searching for transportation.

Again, alot of that stuff is obvious but still, great piece of work by Nolan.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Seeing it put me in the mood to watch Batman Begins again. After seeing what the Nolans do with Bale and Caine here, I am all that more excited for The Dark Knight.

Thanks to those letting others know about Alfred's eyebrow. I'll be looking for it next time I watch.

My impression, from this first viewing, is that Cutter switched allegiences once he understood what Angiers was doing (commiting murder for the act, in that he was killing a duplicate with each show). It's entirely possible Cutter was never loyal to Angiers, but, again, a second viewing will help gain some insight.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

Guys, I'm sorry, but I thought this script was terrible. They go looking for a double for Hugh, and...what do you know, they find one, and he's also played by Hugh? Geez. And there's Bale sending Jackman off to America on false pretenses, where the real Tesla, not a fictional character, actually happens to have invented a carbon copy cloning machine? Come on. And then the he-had-an-identical-twin-along ploy...give me a break. That plot device shouldn't get past a Screenwriting 101 class. Not to mention the unmotivated source of the hatred between the two main characters--whether it was one twin or the other who tied the wrong knot, why didn't he just own up to the mistake? Or was it intentional? I couldn't even tell.

In the review thread, Chuck said "it's a film Hitchcock would have been proud of"...sorry, my friend, but I think you need to see a lot more Hitchcock! Seriously, this kind of surprise-gotcha tactic and reliance on supernatural plot devices was not something Hitchcock was ever interested in (on the latter point, The Birds is really the only exception, where their sudden attacking is never explained). He relied on some admittedly outlandish plots to achieve suspense, but he wasn't just focusing on trying to trick the audience.

I like all the lead actors in The Prestige, and the production values are top-notch, so I can't totally write this one off. But, the only plot element that worked for me--the intrigue that accompanied the dueling loyalties of Scarlett's character--was barely developed. In a general sense, the plot reminded me quite a bit of Sleuth, from the early '70s, which starred Laurence Olivier and (coincidentally) Michael Caine. In that one, it's just two guys trying to outdo each other with various cons and trickery--no twins, no cloning machines--in what eventually escalates to a duel to the death. That's more or less the premise of The Prestige as well, and with the added presence of Scarlett as a potential center for a love triangle, that could have made for a more focused story. Instead, we get identical twins and a cloning device. Sorry to harsh everyone's buzz, but I expected FAR better from Nolan than this.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

While I think your other criticisms are valid (especially Jackman playing his own double), I don't agree with this one because I don't think it's a coincidence at all. I'm sure Bale's character, given his obsession with transportation, would know that Tesla was building a machine designed to do just that. In turn, he knew that Jackman's character would also learn his, leading him to the false conclusion that Bale's character used such a machine to accomplish the trick. It was just to throw him off the scent, and it worked. Also, is it possible that Bale's twin isn't a twin, but a clone created by Tesla's machine, meaning he was telling Jackman the truth the whole time? I really need to see it again.

Also, I'm with Chuck (in the review thread) when he says that the real Angier (Jackman's character) was killed by his double upon his first use of the machine. However, at the end, doesn't "Angier" say something about having courage to step into the machine because he doesn't know if he'll end up being the man in the box or the prestige? Like I said, I really need to see this again. I absolutely loved this movie, and only have a few minor quibbles, with the aforementioned Jackman playing his own double thing being one. That felt a bit contrived, but it doesn't ruin the movie at all. I also didn't mind the science-fiction element of the cloning machine coming into the story either. It worked for me.

Re: *** Official The Prestige Discussion Thread

I'd suggest reading about Tesla..The man was developing crazy theories on the space-time continuum. The movie just takes it one step further, which I had no problem with. Tesla didn't even know that he had a cloning device until Hugh Jackman shows him the hats and cats. I also liked the mention of Edison and alternating current.

The clues about the twin are shown throughout the movie -- one Bale has a chunk of his left eyebrow missing. If you think about it, Michael Caine's character may have known this, and when Jackman kept pressing him about the secret behind the "transported man", he tells him, "He uses a double." -- this is actually true, in a way.

There are a lot of interpretations and ways to think about this movie. It almost plays into the Michael Caine narrative about the three acts - you're basically left looking for the secret....behind the movie.