Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Thanks I read the article and am more dismayed than ever with the state of the music industry.

I can understand that for most folks cds are "good enough" . For this reason I do understand, say the failure of SACD to take off in any meaningful way ( I'm a late adopter to the format myself, but love it ).
But the overcompressing and horribly lossy formats being churned out now make me sick . Really, listening I get headaches !

I can see the need for compressing the DR in an automobile, I always did it some with the cassettes I made. When I made them from my NAD 5300 I would often utilize the compressor button on the NAD. This was my CHOICE, the original retained its DR and I purposely made a version of the album for a specified environment. What is happening now is quite different.

If the new breed of "LOUD" engineers bring their tool box to bear on a lot of remastering, the results will be ugly, and JQPublic will be none the wiser. Oh for the days of snap, crackle, & Pop vinyl...................

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

This article explains quite well why I've moved into classical and jazz for at least 50% of my listening (used to be around 5-10%). The uncontrolled compression disease is, so far, quite rare in those genres. It just shows that, as a culture, we are losing the capacity to appreciate subtlety. If that makes me an elitest snob, so be it.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

there's a lot more than compression techniques ruining modern music. i blame the artists that produce the music

CJ

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

I'm still not quite sure what compression is. Let me throw out an example of what I think compression is and let me know if it's correct:

Classical music piece is compressed. Original piece has pianissimo, fortissimo and mezzo-forte passages. If compression is applied, it no longer sounds like there are pianissimo and mezzo-forte passages. Everything sounds like forte, fortissimo or even fortissimento (fff).

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

That's it, Thomas. Here are some examples I posted online a few months ago.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

These compression "techniques" are all about the new context of popular music: in a club, in a car, at a party -- producers (and the bands themselves) are absolutely TERRIFIED that extreme levels of high/low (subtleties) will cause a listener to lose interest, so they do what commercial sound mixers do on television - make everything the same volume, homogenized, in-your-face, etc.

Headphone music this is not. Sadly, when I'm driving in my car with all the road noise, this sort of compression really helps me hear the music. But this wall-of-sound approach is just pandering to the restless radio-dial flipper.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Yep, just got the new Sarah McLachlan Wintersong CD, (don't laugh! She is one of my fave artists!) and it is one of the most over the top compressed, L O U D and mp3 ready CDs I have ever listened to. There is absolutely NO dynamic range whatsoever! My Harman Kardon CD recorder has a level meter and when Noel started (acapella) they were way in the reds already. I thought hmmm, where is this gonna go when all the instruments come in? NOWHERE! Even at the 1/2 way part when all the percussion comes in. Somewhere under there was I'm sure a good recording. Whoever mastered it should be paddled! Hell, my amp was at -30db for this and it was bordering on being LOUD! Thanks, IPOD generation, thanks...

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Oh and btw, wanna hear a great CD with minimal compression? Universal Mother by Sinead O'Connor. When she suddenly sings louder or the band gets louder, G A S P!!!! it gets louder!!!

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Dylan talked about this in an interview and everyone jumped on him thinking he was talking about how modern music sucks.
No, he was talking about the sound.
He was complaining how the CD of Modern Times doesn't sound as good as he remembers in the studio.
Well, I think he had the power to change that, but oh well.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

... and, naturally, the iPod. Once music became truly portable, this was inevitable. We should have seen it coming since Sony released the Walkman, really.

Cat Stevens - The Wind (Tea for the Tillerman - 1970)


Death Cab for Cutie - Sound of Settling (Transatlanticism - 2003)

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Wow! Adam! Wow!

Anyone want to here raw mixes uncompresed and unmastered just click on my MySpace link below. I have 4 songs I recorded myself that are (hopefully) mixed well level-wise but unmastered and uncompressed... 16trk.

I am not selling anything so this isn't a cheap come-on ad...

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Just one more reason why CD sales are down.....

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

That and the fact that a LOT of today's "hit" music is god aweful.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

It might help this thread to change the title to "Dynamic compression techniques.....". There are other forms of compression, such as DD, DTS, and MP3, which digitally compress files. This may ruin the sound quality but for completely different reasons.


I'm always amazed how people call me a "snob" because I love classical music and can take-or-leave pop music. To me a snob is someone who only likes "high priced" items. Very fine classical recordings are available for a fraction of the cost of mediocre pop recordings. I started another thread here recently on a complete set of Mozart's music - on 170 CD's - for $99. That's 58 cents per CD. The quality is good to very good but not great. There's another thread about spending $33 on some old Jethro Tull album.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Yup, compression and maxing out the dynamic range is probably why any CD from after about 1998 gets very little time in the CD player. Its just so damn fatiguing to the ear I can't tolerate it for long and hence why I quit buying many new discs.

At this point in recording/mastering history in many cases a 224 VBR Mp3 does me just fine, its not like the overly compressed CD sounds any better anyways.

Great article and I linked it on a gaming site I frequent

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

I wouldn't blame MP3 for this, this was the trend of sound quality before MP3 became popular.

We can obviously blame the labels and the producers, but I think part of the blame has to be put on the artists themselves. For those artists who are against the overcompression (let's face it, some artists want this "feature" as it helps get their music more easily heard - aurally) they should be putting their foot down. I know some artists don't have the clout or power to say so - but why are bands like U2 putting up with it?

The longer this continues to occur, the more acceptable this will be (especially for the new generations of listeners - as they will never have experienced good sound).

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

I'm not blaming Mp3 Marc, I meant that because these Cd's sound so shitty to my ear that I might as well be listening to a mp3

I definetley could have worded it better.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Here's a screen shot of the wave analysis from Bon Jovi's "You give Love a Bad Name" from the original CD release (i.e. 1986-ish):



and here is a wave analysis of the same exact song, from the 1999 remastered CD:

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

I don't think 'snob' is solely based on high priced items...Snobbery is more about thinking that your method is superior to others....looking down on other peoples choices, etc.

Not listening to pop music does not make one a snob...trying to feel superior to others by putting down the music they listen to, that would be considered a snob.

How do you broach the subject with others? Do you tend to (unknowingly) look down upon pop music when telling them how much you like classical? That can be construed as 'snobbish'.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

I don't look down on pop music unknowingly. I look down on pop music knowingly. I've listened to large amounts of both for decades (I'm 53 now) and have made my decisions based upon knowledge.

What really gets me are young kids who say things to me like "Oh, you listen to classical music: you MUST be a snob." When I ask them how much classical music they have heard, they say something like "I've never listened to ANY, but I KNOW you must be a snob." This is what mental health professionals call projection.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

I'm not sure if you're trying to convince us you're not a snob, but this statement guarantees your place at the next annual Super Snob picnic!

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

So instead of letting "young kids" get away with thinking that people who listen to classical music are "snobs" why don't you show them why classical music is worthwhile. Yeah some of today's "young kids" might not get it but there are a few if given the proper exposure will give classical music a chance.

I'm not that much of an expert on classical music. But if someone like you could perhaps give me an idea on where would be a good piece to give myself an introduction (outside of the 2001 soundtrack, which I love)... then I'm more than willing to give classical music an listen or two.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

My favorite composers are Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff. Here is my favorite recording of Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 3: Amazon link

Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 6 is a good symphony to start with. I have this recording that I purchased because it's a DVD-Audio, but I don't like how fast the conductor goes with the piece. It's still worthy of a purchase, and you may like it more than I do.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

I enjoy Mussorgsky and Smetana and Dvorak. I'm sure there are classical music aficionados for whom that immediately marks me out as a low-brow, but I actively enjoy Eastern European Romantic music of the mid-to-late XIX Century (other music too, of course, but for argument's sake I name the category). I can "appreciate" the complexity of some of the very intellectual stuff out there, but I don't enjoy listening to it, and life is too short to waste time that way. I absolutely can't stand John Cage and his sort — 4'33" indeed!

I also enjoy plenty of "popular" music ; and much of our older classical music was quite popular when it was new, although it had competitors in dance-hall music and so on. I find Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Judy Collins worth listening to for the vocal aspects alone ; Al Stewart can be quite clever, and Dylan is an astounding lyricist if nothing else ; and I confess to a fondness for the sprightliness of Japanese "J-pop" (to make a few examples). And, of course, there is "folk" and similar music, which has served for the basis of some of the best classical music in one way or another (there is a world of difference between Orth's Carmina Burana and Dvorak's Sclavonic Dances, but I have a recording of each).

In other words, I listen to what I enjoy.

To get back to the topic at hand, I certainly find the "uncompromisingly compromised" quality of a lot of recent recordings to be unpleasant. It's sickening to think that this is what's been done with the extra 30+ dB of dynamic range that CD has over the average LP. On the other hand, much of the affected music I wouldn't buy even if it were perfectly-recorded, since what I've heard of it doesn't make me want it. I have heard some very good recent music, but it didn't suit me at all.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Would this be a good time to ask Rush to re-record "the worst sounding cd of all time" Vapor Trails? It's a shame too, it is a very good album.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

I second the "enjoy Eastern European.." sentiment.

I made the original "elitist snob" comment in this thread but my point wasn't about liking classical music. It was about appreciating subtlety (which can be found in many things, not just classical music) and how our society appears to be losing its taste (fleeting as it may always have been) for subtlety. I find the "dynamic compression disease" symptomatic of this lack of appreciate for subtlety.

I think one of the best ways for anyone to enter the world of classical music in reasonably priced fashion is to explore the RCA Living Stereo SACD releases, as well as Naxos (either in standard or hi-res).

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

I think two good works are Holst's The Planets and Orff's Carmina Burana. (although in the most snobbish sense neither are "classical" because they are both early 20th century). There are 10 bajillion recordings of either work and they can be had brand-new for under $10 (some labels you might find a set of both for under $10. thats a bargain!).

The Planets - A lot of music "borrows" heavily from this work. When you listen to these you're brain will likely remember 100 TV commercials and movies that sound very very similar to something here. That National beef Council commercial? ("its whats for dinner"), I dare you to listen to Jupiter and not tell me it was stolen note-for-note. Mars has probably been used in every budget sci-fi film ever made.

Carmina Burana - The opening track "O Fortuna" is the de facto movie trailer song. A couple of the lesser-known songs are used by hollywood every now and then.

The single biggest piece of advice I can give about classical:

*TURN IT UP*

The loud parts should be almost deafening. Otherwise you wont hear the quiet parts (This kind of dynamic range just doesn't exist in pop and most classical noobs dont know what to expect).

When I was younger I didn't care for classical because it was always played at fancy dinner levels on a crappy tabletop radio. Good impactful symphonies require more volume than a Motley Crue album, I kid you not.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

I'll second the motion to "turn it up". Some small chamber pieces don't need huge sound, but any symphonic work REQUIRES it to be at its best.

Re: Compression techniques ruining modern music (article)

Good grief. And here I thought that when I finally bought New Jersey re-mastered, it was a good thing -- my copy of New Jersey was on cassette, never "upgraded" to CD at first instance, but maybe 2 years ago I found the re-mastered release on sale and thought it would be a good buy.

Then again, I rarely listen to CDs at home anyway, it's usually in the car or in the office, where the volume would be low as it's background music only. Perhaps that's one reason why I hadn't actively noticed the problem, but now that I've read the article and this thread, it does sort-of confirm what I think I've subconciously felt all along -- that there was something odd going on in the way current music sounded, as compared to the pop I grew up with in the 1980s.