HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended - Page 3

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

You know, I agree with your assessment. The scenes above the water did look quite a bit sharper than underwater--maybe it was intentional to reduce the line sharpness quality in the underwater sequences.

By the way, the Disc 2 contents is excellent--I am glad that--

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

While I found the actual a/v quality on this to be dubious as well, I can't recommend buying this disc enough, JUST for the extras. I mean, at the $14.99 sale prices this week, it's not a bad deal. The commentary is entertaining, the documentary is informative and shockingly honest, the virtual ridethrough is wicked awesome, and The Little Matchgirl made me cry.

Crap, I shouldn't have said that last part out loud.

Not to mention the deleted scenes and art galleries. Of course, I know that a lot of you guys don't give two licks about bonus features, but I think they really sell the release in this case.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

Well, I hate to do this...

but on my minimal system, the disc looked okay (for the most part) and sounded (I thought) pretty good.

Let me qualify a few things. I did NOT watch the entire disc last night. I just skipped around to some musical highlights and the finale (Ursula's big "finish").

I'm also watching on a Samsung 28" HD CRT set. That would explain why so many of the problems that David and others are seeing are not a problem for me.

But, would someone else PLEASE take a look at about 41:45 into the film and see what's up? This is during Poor Unfortunate Souls while Sebastian & Flounder are lurking about watching the discourse between Ariel and Ursula. At the moment in question, Flounder swims into the picture from behind a pirce of rock/coral. Even on my set, his edges all fly apart. What a distracting mess. Is this symptomatic of the bigger problems which aren't so readily visible to me?

To be honest, I rather enjoyed the DEHT mix. It was certainly aggressive in its use of the surrounds and I heard no processing which made me feel like I was listening to some lesser mix of the film.

Again, for full disclosure, I am not listening to this on anything close to Dave's system. My source is a Toshiba SD-1600 (!) through a SONY STDRE-445 to some Polk R-30s and R-15s with an inferior Jensen sub-woofer.


I never experienced that "phase-shifting" at all. In fact, I had to leave my viewing area and approach the front left and right speakers to see if the main vocals were, indeed, set in those channels. They were there...but barely...sort of in a bleed-through kind of way (behind the other effects/music that seemed inteded there). My experience had the main vocal in the center speaker with the instrumentation spread all around me in an aggressive, full sound-stage.


I didn't get that dry, flat electronic feeling that Dave did either. Could very well be that my system's just not going to reproduce the faults like Dave's. I, indeed, felt showered with musical bliss. I fell in love with the clever lyrics, nifty melodies and bravura animation all over again. I thought the mix surrounded me and felt vibrant and alive.

My point here is I did NOT feel the need to get up and compare the sound with the original DVD release...but I will.

Sound is important to me. I consider myself an audiophile ...but on a budget. I can tell the difference between compressed mp3 tracks and non-compressed audio. I will go back and try to make a comparison between the original mix as presented on the old DVD and this new DEHT mix. But, my point is...I don't feel the need to. What I heard last night I enjoyed very much.

I also am a Disney music fanatic. I have heard more versions of songs recorded for Disney films than most people here. I have an extensive collection of Disney music that includes foreign soundtracks and music from Disney Themepark Attractions based on the films themselves.

So this difference-of-opinion with David, for me, begs the question...what does this say about me? Am I not as discriminating a listener as I would have thought? Are the limitations of my gear simply keeping me from hearing the problems with the mix as presented by Dave? If the latter is true, do I fall firmly into a "Joe Sixpack" category as someone who would blindly buy this release and be satisfied with it in my ignorance. Or, might I be okay with the mix because the mix itself is actually okay? These are tough questions for me to answer.

In the other thread on this release, someone noted their surprise that people were expressing their disappointment about Dave's early comments but that they were going to go ahead and buy it anyway. I know many of us look forward to reviews to get guidance on whether a particular release is going to be what we want in the presentation of a particular film. But, I would say so many people feel so strongly about this particular era of the Disney canon that it would make sense to get this disc (and I'm not even referring to the incredible bonus features) despite Dave's review.

Some have compared this early discussion on the new release of The Little Mermaid with the discussions/reviews of the non-anamorphic Star Wars original trilogy release. One of the things I found as that discussion has finally been dying down is the revelation that whatever point-of-view people have about that release--whatever personal decision they make about whether to buy it--is essentially "okay". That there is no need to try and cram one's own viewpoint down the throat of someone with a contrary opinion. Nor is there really a need to try and change someone else's point-of-view. What's the point? Have your own view and feel good about it. Share it. But why fight about it?

But, back to TLM. I reveled in my limited exposure to the disc last night (apart from that one scene where Flounder practically exploded before my eyes). But, I will also be giving the disc a closer (more discriminating) look over coming days. But I am admittedly doubtful that I am going to find much to change my initial impression. I will also be weighing carefully those questions I laid out earlier.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

Still wondering if the R2 version will offer any improvements...?

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

time to turn in your audiophile membership card.


just kidding, i dont thinl you need to examine your audiophileness so critically as that.

it could just be a matter of taste.

i have a very good sound system, at first just skipping through the disc it sounded odd to me and as dave explained his thoughts on it i understood what was odd.

but as i watched right through the movie later i noticed then sound mix less.

if it had the origional mix on it i would listen to that and never the deht mix again.

i didnt get the new dumbo because i just dont like the movie so this will be the first disney classic i dont get. have the first one already.

i dont care about the extras i just want the movie they way it should be, correct.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

You see, Tony, that would be the easy way out.

But, Dave is SO specific about his description of the issues--the vocals in the front three speakers ("out-of-phase"), "artificial, dry, flat, electronic", etc. And I'm just not hearing that.

I think I'll be handing in my card.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

All I can say is that I agreed with David's assessment that the DD 5.1 mix included on the original DVD was better ... but I couldn't give you any specifics as to why. The vocals and bass sounded 'cleaner' and more natural to me. That's all I can say.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

Because, for a title like THE LITTLE MERMAID, the typical HTFer isn't really on Disney's radar. They are going to sell millions of copies of the film to kids, and parents, and people who remembered it in the 80's. Even if everyone on this forum boycotts it, it will still be one of the biggest DVDs of the year, despite what the reviews say.

If it were a Criterion, or smaller film, then we might have an impact on it.

I'll have to admit, despite the disappointing review, I'll still probably be picking it up. It is only $15, and from the reviews of the extras, it seems to be worth it just for that.

I never got the early version (picked it up many times before it went out of print, never bought it) and only have a VHS copy somewhere that is probably unwatchable by now. So, just to see it again (and it is my favorite modern day Disney film), this version will probably be the cheapest way to see it.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

I am wondering why this review doesn't have a link to it on the main Home Theater Forum page? Surely, if this release is as problematic as the review claims then the HTF would want buyers to be aware of it, no?

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

I didn't notice that last night when I watched it. Very weird. It's off and on. I've never seen anything quite like it and have no idea what the heck is going on there.

Mike, and some others pretty much summed up my feelings. I would suggest that anyone who is considering passing this up give it a rental and see for yourself what you think.

I have a 36" 4:3 WEGA, Sony ES 333 receiver & Boston Acoustics speakers. I haven't seen this in probably 10 years or so. After a while I stopped looking/listening for flaws and simply enjoyed the film. I say that not as an indictment that anyone is too picky or any such thing, but simply to point out that for me the disc was absolutely watchable and at no time did any audio/video flaws inhibit my enjoyment of the film.

I haven't watched all the extras yet but what I've seen was quite good. I would almost say that The Little Matchgirl makes the set worth the price of admission. That is a very nice extra as far as I'm concerned.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

I think I would probably fall into the same category as Mike Frezon above :-) including in my love of Disney audio.

My one complaint on giving the disc a second listen is that the Les Poissons number (a sentimental favorite) Louis' voice seemed like it was a bit overmodulated. Did anyone else notice that?

Also, and this goes for Mike in particular, did you find the Ashley Tisdale remake of Kiss The Girl to be downright offensive in its awfulness? It completely destroyed the musicality of the song. I'm only 27, so when the movie came out originally I only knew it was a good movie with nice music, listening to the making of and the commentary, when they talked about the old rock and doo wop roots of the song, it all of a sudden gave me a completely new appreciation of the tune... hearing the remake made me think just how little some of the people involved in the "music" business actually care about music!

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

Didn't check that out yet. I was a little scared. I will do so tonight! I'm not expecting much. I'll also give Les Poissons another listen...although I've got to say I didn't notice it last night. THAT is one funny scene. I've always been kinda surprised the storytellers approached that subject (seafood) from Sebastian's point of view (borders on cannibalism).

OT, but one of my favorite covers of Kiss the Girl was actually done by a group called Little Texas and was featured on a CD called The Best of Country Sings the Best of Disney. A real country sound...but still a very thoughtful version faithful to the original intent. And I'm NOT a big country fan.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

A lot of people (or even most) are going to be happy with this DVD. Still there's every reason to appreciate that some measure and judge it by strict and specific standards.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

The Technicolor restoration that everyone has been talking about - in the credits they are listed, and integreated seemlessly in the credits.

Does anyone know if this restoration was done for the 1998 re-release (I think it was 98, might have been '99 - Disney rushed it out to come out the same time as Don Bluth's Anastasia). Is it possible that this DVD was sourced from that and not a restoration done specifically for DVD? (and obviously the laser disc was sourced from an older transfer that was subsequently ported to the first DVD in Jan 2000)

One thing I will say in defense of the DVD, and I didn't notice it really at the time, but looking more and more at TLM, it has become obvious that this movie, although terrific in story, animation, etc, was done more "cheaply" than BatB, Alladin, Lion King, and everything after that was done digital. There aren't shadows cast all the time by the characters, they don't use the Tone Matting technique they developed with Roger Rabbit to give the characters a dimensional look, etc. Its animation style fits in more with Oliver and Company and The Great Mouse Detective than it does with Alladin and The Lion King. I am not saying it is a bad thing, but since it is considered one of the "modern classics" it sort of has one foot planted firmly in the 80's style Disney, and one foot stretched into the '90's style.

Maybe I'm getting a little pointless here :-) But hey, I love blabbing on and on about Disney. Maybe thats why when I did my Disney World College Program they let me give tours at the now shuttered animation studio 8:-)


to add my equipment to the list:
Philips 27" CRT TV (don't recall the model number, its about 3 yrs old)
Panasonic DVD-A120 connected via component

and
Epson Powerlite 811p XGA Projector
Zenith DVB-318 player (outputting 720p via DVI)
Screen Size: 120" (4:3), Seating Distance 12 ft
Sony HTIB (600 watts, 100w powered sub) (not reference but works for my needs and budget :-) )

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

I wonder if the "Kiss the Girl" version on this DVD can be any worse than the godawful Peter Andre version that was recorded for the European version of the 1997 theatrical re-release and even put into the friggin' end credits. (I still have the British VHS and sometimes wonder how I can sleep at night with that thing in the room.)

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

I'm watching on a 65" SONY 16X9 set from about 8ft back and to my eyes, The Little Mermaid has never looked better. I looked hard for the anomalies described and I really didn't notice them.

The sound mix is fine and not as bad as I expected. Sorry, I may be in the minority, but definitely worth picking up if you are a fan of the film. I'm sure the HD version will kick this one's ass, but until then, this version will suffice nicely.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

Thank you Tino, I thought there was something wrong with my eyes. I watched it last week, enjoyed it, blissfully unaware of the cause célèbre it had become until I hit the Software area at the weekend. I guess it really all boils down to the equipment you're using, mine's a very normal 32" widescreen telly and unspectacular 5.1 Sony sound system, and how picky and fussy you are. I honestly didn't see or hear anything wrong with it, not that I was looking for something to complain about. I just sat there and enjoyed the film. If an even better version pops up in 9-10 years, I'd simply buy it again. Life goes on.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

David is a reviewer, and it is his (unpaid) job to be picky and fussy and look for something to complain about. I am glad he is there for that, though his AV standards are undoubtedly higher than mine...

--
H

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

By the way, I was at a Best Buy store today and saw the movie played back on a Sony Grand WEGA SXRD KDS-60A2000 60" rear projection TV. TedD's comments was confirmed because I noticed all the underwater sequences looked a bit "soft" on line details but the above water scenes were vastly sharper. On the Sony TV, the color quality of the movie was quite good.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

David, I am sitting 1.3 screen widths back from my 9' wide screen. Sony Qualia 004 1080 SXRD projector. I still can't agree with your "Not Recommended". Maybe the fact that I am upscaling to 1080 using an HTPC with Theatertek and a high end NVidia video card feeding DVI to the projector makes a difference. I don't know. I do know bad video when I see it, ("Cold Mountain", anyone?) and this isn't bad video. Maybe you have been watching too much HD DVD? I know that I have to mentally recalibrate my video standards after watching any HD DVD.

Ted

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

I too was disappointed, especially with the sound.
Every character sounds congested, and I had to do a double take to see if Flounder's dialogue wasn't rerecorded.

Even Jodi Benson's voice doesn't soar the way it does on the laserdisc. I have the original clv as well as the 1998 cav rerelease.

I was also disappointed with the lower frequencies of the storm and the destruction of Ariel's cavern.

The one thing I was hoping Disney would have included in disc 2, is the Little Mermaid special that aired on the Disney channel with Alyssa Milano. Watching Ariel, it's clear to see that Alyssa was the inspiration behind Ariel's look.

Even the free case that was exclusive to Future Shop was cheesy.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

The image isn't bad but is a bit muted and soft. The sound I as well thought was horrible. They have vocals and instruments coming at you from all speakers without much thought put into it. I enjoyed the home theater mix for aladin and lion king but this is bad. The vocals and instruments sound very over compressed and fuzzy.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

One thing I didn't like about the Home Theater Mix on The Lion King was that sometimes the placement of the surround sound elements was just strange compared to the original mix (which is fortunately available on that DVD).

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

Well, I went back to the disc tonight and took the time to do some A-B comparisons with the original DVD release.

The differences between the two audio mixes are clear. Yet I find it extreme to say the mix is botched. It IS different. And, it IS a shame the original mix wasn't included on the disc. But, I just don't find the lack of fidelity in this recording that David does.

The first major criticism is as follows:


As I've stated earlier, I just don't hear that out-of-phase experience with the voices cast across the three front channels. The directionality of the main vocals seem to be clearly coming (98%) from the center channel and, therefore, directly from the character's mouth. I do agree with Dave this new DEHT mix has a much more aggressive use of instruments in the rears. My experience with this, though, is that it is simply expanding the soundstage and I do not find it at all distracting to the vocal or the musical scene that's being played out.

The other main criticism about the sound:


And this is what lead me to my series of questions earlier (questioning my own ears). After I heard the new mix I couldn't understand where David was coming from. And now, after doing my own A-B comparison witht he original DVD, I am still confused. I did very close comparative listenings to the two presentations (my family now officially knows I'm nuts!). After listening to Part of My World, Under the Sea and Poor Unfortunate Soul, I hear absolutely no difference in the reproduction of Jodi Benson's, Samuel E. Wright's or Pat Carroll's vocal performance. At no time did I find the tonal qualities, timbres or the overall performances in the new release to be "flat, dry, brassy, or electronically" impacted in any way. The voices sounded as true and clear as any other recordings of these songs that I have heard.

Again, I know the mixes are different and we are all entitled to how we feel about the DEHT mix. I just don't understand the extreme remarks about the quality of the audio as a whole.

It could be, I'm sure some will say, that my gear isn't sensitive enough to pick up some the nuances described by Dave. But, then again, his criticisms don't take on the feel of a nuanced opinion. I've got to believe that, according to what Dave wrote, even I should hear a dramatic difference in fidelity...and I don't.

My bottom line, I think the use of the terms "botched", "travesty", "morons", and "tone deaf" are extreme to describe the job done to bring the audio on this DVD to its audience. I, too, wish the original mix was included for those who would prefer it. That is always a good practice when re-engineering a sound mix. But I most respectfully disagree with Dave's opinion of the SQ on this release.

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

That's my fault. I have been rather busy these past two days
and had forgotten to link David's review on the main page. It
has now been linked.

By the way, I suppose I should announce this here and now
(though I don't want to throw this thread off topic).....

This is David Boulet's final review for HTF. David informed
us weeks ago that he received an offer to write reviews for
another website that we are quite fond of (but will not mention
here at this time).

David will be replaced by a new reviewer, Ben Williams, who
we have faith will do an excellent job in representing Buena Vista
product.

We are very sad to see David go, obviously for the fact that
the quality of his reviews have been recognized across the
Internet. Fortunately, David will remain an active member of
this forum. We wish David the very best success in his future
endeavors!

....now back to discussing the Mermaid release!

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

Whatever happened to the lovely presentation boxes like The Lion King and Aladdin?

Re: HTF REVIEW: The Little Mermaid - Disappointingly NOT Recommended

Congrats, Dave! I hope this doesn't mean you won't be weighing in any more around here with your thoughts on various topics. Although I disagree with your opinion on this release, I have always found your reviews to be comprehensive and insightful. Good luck!