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post #91 of 433
9/13/06 at 9:20am

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Bad PAL-NTSC conversion (and vv) can exacerbate aliasing because the horizontal scan-lines are being recalculated. Therefore, both answerws could be correct. If the PAL version aliases more than the NTSC and both were taken from the same source transfer/D1 then that's the case.

I know exactly what you mean, Anchor Bay's first release of Halloween in PAL for example. The conversation method used was absolutely AWFUL. Far worse then this ORIGINAL Star Wars transfer. I trust Richard, and am convinced that this PAL transfer is fine in terms of the conversation.

Yes it would be nice to have the original trilogy with today's standards of remastering, but I am not going to loose any sleep over whether it happens or not. For now these transfers will suit me just nicely.
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post #92 of 433
9/13/06 at 9:29am

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric Easton
That's funny, I thought that line was in there at the very beginning. Granted, it's been 29 years, but I seem to remember the payoff for that line getting a big laugh in the theater.
There was different sound mixes for Star Wars (depending on the theater's sound capabilities) so you may have heard it.
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post #93 of 433
9/13/06 at 10:13am

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Great thread. I particularlly appreciate comparisons to the LDs (both picture and sound) by those with front-projection systems.

I think I'll pick these up used. That way I can get something that looks (but not sounds) better than my LDs without putting any $$ into Lucas' hands.



That's what I'm doing.
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post #94 of 433
9/13/06 at 10:35am

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

You guys that are buying these used do realize that you are still indirectly putting money in Lucas' hands, right?
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post #95 of 433
9/13/06 at 11:03am

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
You guys that are buying these used do realize that you are still indirectly putting money in Lucas' hands, right?

How? Does Lucas get royalites from someone buying used copies?

If someone buys the disc and decides they don't like it or want to own it, then by purchasing it from them it's still just one sale for Lucas instead of two.
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post #96 of 433
9/13/06 at 11:04am

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Thanks for the review guys. I have the DC set and was always pleased with them. I used to have the original wide screen LD release and the DC set was far and away better.

Based on what I read, the image is marginally better but the sound is vastly inferior. I find "tinny" to be unacceptable since the LD is anything but. Therefore, I will hold off on this set. I would reconsider if these are later released HD, which based on the history of this trilogy release, is rather highly probable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
How? Does Lucas get royalites from someone buying used copies?

If someone buys the disc and decides they don't like it or want to own it, then by purchasing it from them it's still just one sale for Lucas instead of two.

Agreed. That statement made no sense.
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post #97 of 433
9/13/06 at 11:17am

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Too bad Fox didn't encode the 2.0 DD track at a 348 kbps datarate... or better yet... LPCM at 16/48 or 20/48... all of which are allowed for DVD-video!
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post #98 of 433
9/13/06 at 11:56am

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

This set gets a thumbs down for me, video marginally better than laser, inferior audio, just not worth it. I'll stick with the previous release, I love it and personally the nostalgia does not move me as I thought it would at least not in the same way that it's initial release to DVD did. Money towards an HD-DVD player, now about 200 bucks in towards it, well worth sacrifice.
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post #99 of 433
9/13/06 at 11:57am

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Too bad Fox didn't encode the 2.0 DD track at a 348 kbps datarate... or better yet... LPCM at 16/48 or 20/48... all of which are allowed for DVD-video!

Has there ever been a DVD with a 2.0 track at 348 kbps? Also, PCM tracks on DVD are extremely rare due to space issues. Do the Right Thing (Criterion) is the only title that I can think of that has a PCM track.
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post #100 of 433
9/13/06 at 12:03pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Too bad Fox didn't encode the 2.0 DD track at a 348 kbps datarate... or better yet... LPCM at 16/48 or 20/48... all of which are allowed for DVD-video!
Agreed! Whilst I never had the OOT/OUT on laser, I did have the 97SE LD boxset. Lacking the RF out port for Dolby Digital meant using the PCM soundtracks via Pro logic and latterly PLII. Those tracks were astoundingly full and rich (as were the vast majority of PCM tracks on laser).

Has anyone been able to confirm that it is the 1993 THX mix being used on the current original Star Wars (ANH) disc?

Without wishing to digress too much, is there a good reason (ie other than the whim of studios) why PCM stereo isn't used much outside of music DVDs for stereo/matrixed surround material?

EDIT: Should have refreshed the page before posting! PCM I'd imagine is a serious consideration when extras etc are competing for disc space, but when the film & menu is the only thing on there?
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post #101 of 433
9/13/06 at 12:07pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

David,

I think Chris's (unstated) point is that the mere knowledge that there will be good demand in the resale market will drive up demand in the market for new product. Hence more sales.

As to your audio points (DD 2.0 at 348 or PCM), I had the same thought. It is a shame it wasn't done as there has got to be gobs of available bitspace given that about 45% of the 480x720 pixel area is composed of static black bars, which rumor has it, compress nicely.

-Reagan
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post #102 of 433
9/13/06 at 12:07pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

The studios would usually say they don't want to use so much space as it would take about as much space as a full-bit-rate DTS track.

HOWEVER,

2.0 DD doesn't have to be stuck with the default-setting of 192 kbps where honestly it sounds about MP3 in quality. Instead, the audio engineers could up the rate to the same 348 or 448 rate used for a normal 5.1 mix. With just 2 channels to encode, that could sound AMAZINGLY BETTER than the usual 192 rate... and potentially very close to PCM in quality.

Just one more thing that the people making our DVDs don't "get" for whatever reason.

Quote:
I think Chris's (unstated) point is that the mere knowledge that there will be good demand in the resale market will drive up demand in the market for new product. Hence more sales.

How so? I'm not talking about buying from a "scalper" who buys it wholesale to turn it around (acting as distributor) and is giving the studio a sale with the only purpose to then sell to a consumer, I'm talking about buying it *used*... an open item that a regular consumer decided to dump after purchase.
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post #103 of 433
9/13/06 at 12:15pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

I picked up this set today thanks to this thread and just finished Star Wars.

Eh.

The transfer is OK I guess, but plagued with lots of dirt and white speckles. Very disappointing. I'm watching it zoomed on a 65" SONY 16X9 set. Of all the "good" non anamorphic releases I own(Titanic, The Abyss, The Black Hole etc..), It's definitely the worst looking.

It's fine to watch when I'm in a nostalgic mood, but I'll stick with the SE's until an HD version is released (if and when that is).
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post #104 of 433
9/13/06 at 12:37pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Yes, Reagan, that is what I meant. Potential resale value is built into the supply and demand of any product. The thought that you might be able to sell something at a future date inherently makes the product more valuable and will enhance the $$ that Lucas makes off the sale of the initial product.
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post #105 of 433
9/13/06 at 1:06pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Beam
Pleasant surprise.... Star Wars (NOT "Episode IV: A New Hope," but STAR WARS)

Wait a minute....they actually say Star Wars and have none of the "Episode IV A New Hope" crap that's been in the crawls for years? I may just have to pick up one for that alone.....
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post #106 of 433
9/13/06 at 1:06pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Yes, Reagan, that is what I meant. Potential resale value is built into
the supply and demand of any product. The thought that you might be able
to sell something at a future date inherently makes the product more
valuable and will enhance the $$ that Lucas makes off the sale of the
initial product.

That being as it may,

that's a predictive pricing strategy on the part of the studio. They are pricing these discs according to their own business models. Once those discs are priced and sold new to the initial buyer, anything that actually happens after that can't affect what already has been priced. Perhaps the buying patterns that actually take place may then provide the studio more data on how to price their *next* disc, but they can't go back and reprice the disc that they've already sold.

Wether or not folks actually buy them used from resale after the fact won't change what studio already charged.

Certainly, the low prices for these discs don't suggest that they're over-charging the intitial buyer based on a presumed added-value from potential resale.
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post #107 of 433
9/13/06 at 1:32pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer
Wait a minute....they actually say Star Wars and have none of the "Episode IV A New Hope" crap that's been in the crawls for years? I may just have to pick up one for that alone.....

Mark: That's the whole idea. The original films...as released in 1977, 1980 & 1983...BEFORE Lucas changed them with various "updates".

JUST what so many fans have wanted for so long on DVD...except they haven't been anamorphically enhanced for 16x9 TVs...meaning a sub-standard transfer for current technology. That has taken the joy out of the release for many fans. Others are saying the nostalgia of seeing the original films (without having to flip laserdiscs, for example) is a great thing.

Welcome to the debate...and teeth-gnashing!
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post #108 of 433
9/13/06 at 1:41pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kim
Has there ever been a DVD with a 2.0 track at 348 kbps? Also, PCM tracks on DVD are extremely rare due to space issues. Do the Right Thing (Criterion) is the only title that I can think of that has a PCM track.

I don't know that I'd say PCM tracks are "extremely rare" - well, for movies they're pretty rare, but I've got PCM tracks on a lot of the music DVDs I have. Seems like most of the music DVDs I have offer both a PCM stereo track and a DD (and sometimes DTS) 5.1.

I actually just watched John Mayer's "Any Given Thursday" DVD last night for the first time, and was pleasantly surprised to find that the DD 2.0 track on there was encoded higher than 192kbps - I don't remember if it was 348kbps or higher, but it was definitely more than your usual DD 2.0 track, and it sounded pretty good.

I agree, it would be great if studios putting out products that don't have a DD 5.1 track (or better) included the stereo or mono mix at a higher bitrate. Just seems like one of those things that the people in charge of making such decisions don't really think about.

Oh yeah, to keep the post on-topic -- haven't picked up the new Star Wars discs yet, still on the fence. Anamorphic vs. non-anamorphic controversy aside (as I don't yet have a 16x9 TV), I'm worried that if I buy these I'll end up opening them, going "Cool!" and putting them in a pile somewhere and never watching them. I don't have a Circuit City near me.. the best I've seen them in a local store has been $19.99, Amazon's got them for a buck less, but without getting some of the better deals that I've been reading about on here, I don't know that I need to buy these....

...but I probably will at some point.
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post #109 of 433
9/13/06 at 1:43pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
That being as it may,

that's a predictive pricing strategy on the part of the studio. They are pricing these discs according to their own business models. Once those discs are priced and sold new to the initial buyer, anything that actually happens after that can't affect what already has been priced. Perhaps the buying patterns that actually take place may then provide the studio more data on how to price their *next* disc, but they can't go back and reprice the disc that they've already sold.

Wether or not folks actually buy them used from resale after the fact won't change what studio already charged.

Certainly, the low prices for these discs don't suggest that they're over-charging the intitial buyer based on a presumed added-value from potential resale.

David:

It's not "overcharging." The price people are willing to pay is based in part on the resale value. The fact that people demand them in the used market puts money directly into Lucas' hands...especially since they are trying to use a "limited time" only marketing ploy to drive up demand in the first place.
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post #110 of 433
9/13/06 at 1:50pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
It's not "overcharging." The price people are willing to pay is based in part on the resale value. The fact that people demand them in the used market puts money directly into Lucas' hands...especially since they are trying to use a "limited time" only marketing ploy to drive up demand in the first place.

My point was that the price of these discs is no greater than the price of "normal" DVDs that don't command a high-resale-probability.

Also, the price that the studio sets isn't based on what buyers will do: it's based on what the studio *thinks* buyers will do regardless of what they (we) actually do end up doing.
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post #111 of 433
9/13/06 at 1:58pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
My point was that the price of these discs is no greater than the price of "normal" DVDs that don't command a high-resale-probability.

Also, the price that the studio sets isn't based on what buyers will do: it's based on what the studio *thinks* buyers will do regardless of what they (we) actually do end up doing.

Let's forget about price...merely by purchasing a used disc you are contributing to demand for the product and thereby lining Mr. Lucas' pockets, because higher demand = higher price.

Recently, I wanted to acquire the Lego Star Wars game. I preferred to buy a used copy. But I couldn't find one, so I eventually chose to buy it new...for all I know, you could have bought the last used copy and "forced" me to buy a new game...either way, Mr. Lucas got extra money because I wanted a copy, even though I preferred a used one.

When you buy a used copy of these discs, you will be removing them from the market, possibly leading some one else to either bid more for different used discs or purchase them new, and on and on and on.

Isn't economics fun?
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post #112 of 433
9/13/06 at 2:12pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

This link does not contain a review of the new OUT discs, but rather screenshot comparisons of this release vs. the 2004 SE versions and several fan-made transfers. Definitely worth a look if you're on the fence:

http://www.aptirrelevance.com/otscreenshots/
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post #113 of 433
9/13/06 at 2:15pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

I watched both SW and ESB last night (will watch Jedi tonight) and to my eyes the DVDs are not just marginally better than the LDs.....they are tremendously better. I was amazed, and I wasn't really expecting to be. You're really missing out if you don't get these. If you have doubts, rent them first, but I think you will find the picture quality is far superior to the LDs. I didn't notice a difference in the sound- it sounded just as good to me as the LDs. I haven't done an A/B comparison, but I'll do that after I've watched Jedi.

Even more surprising was the fact that the colors do look better than the LDs (including the black level). I was expecting everyone's faces to be reddish, and the skies to be a hazy bluish-black like on the LDs. They weren't - the colors were far more natural than the LDs with a lot less bleeding, and the skies were pitch-black and filled with razor-sharp stars.

I'm disappointed that these discs aren't anamorphic, but to tell you the honest truth, if this is the very last digital release of the OUT, I can happily live with it. Far better to have these, than to have the best version of the OUT be the laserdiscs.

One thing I wanted to mention- I hear a slight "pop" during the SW layer change on my Sony rdr-gx7 player. I tried it in my RCA player, and there was no pop. Anybody else experience this?
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post #114 of 433
9/13/06 at 2:18pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
When you buy a used copy of these discs, you will be removing them from the market, possibly leading some one else to either bid more for different used discs or purchase them new, and on and on and on

Well that's a circular argument if ever I heard one... that *my* buying a used copy would then be one less used copy for someone else to buy forcing them to buy new instead...

No one is forced to buy this new or used or anything else. If another buyer chose to boycott the purchase until he/she finds a used copy just like me they can wait just like me.
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post #115 of 433
9/13/06 at 2:33pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MielR
I watched both SW and ESB last night (will watch Jedi tonight) and to my eyes the DVDs are not just marginally better than the LDs.....they are tremendously better. I was amazed, and I wasn't really expecting to be. You're really missing out if you don't get these. If you have doubts, rent them first, but I think you will find the picture quality is far superior to the LDs. I didn't notice a difference in the sound- it sounded just as good to me as the LDs. I haven't done an A/B comparison, but I'll do that after I've watched Jedi.

Even more surprising was the fact that the colors do look better than the LDs (including the black level). I was expecting everyone's faces to be reddish, and the skies to be a hazy bluish-black like on the LDs. They weren't - the colors were far more natural than the LDs with a lot less bleeding, and the skies were pitch-black and filled with razor-sharp stars.


The picture from a LD depends a LOT of the LD players. And it sounds like you have not calibrated your system for Ld with Video essential. You saw the LS screenshots I post here, post the same from the DVD.
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post #116 of 433
9/13/06 at 2:38pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Great thread. I particularlly appreciate comparisons to the LDs (both picture and sound) by those with front-projection systems.

I think I'll pick these up used. That way I can get something that looks (but not sounds) better than my LDs without putting any $$ into Lucas' hands.


David, if you feel like this, I would think a cheap capture card and some legal capture of your own disc and fix them up in avisynth will give you:
*better image than the DVD now.
*better audio
*knowing you have not given lucas more of your money.
*and having fun at the same time
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post #117 of 433
9/13/06 at 2:53pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
Well that's a circular argument if ever I heard one... that *my* buying a used copy would then be one less used copy for someone else to buy forcing them to buy new instead...

No one is forced to buy this new or used or anything else. If another buyer chose to boycott the purchase until he/she finds a used copy just like me they can wait just like me.
i agree with you david.

that is a bit of a convoluted way to say buying a used copy of something cuases money to indirectly get back to lucas.


anyway too bad that the hd xa-1 doesnt allow for a zoom because star wars looked decent unzoomed on my mits.

also looked just ok thru my rp-p1 unzoomed.
normally that player will auto zoom but it doesnt with these releases i have to either use the rp-91 to zoom or the tv.

neither looked very good that big (73") zoomed.

now upstairs on my 30" wide tube tv it looked very good.

i also would say star wars dvd looks better then the face laser, but not by much.
it may look better because i can only watch laser using s-video or composite
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post #118 of 433
9/13/06 at 3:18pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

So when Wal-Mart or any retailer buys these discs, are they stuck with what doesn't sell or can they return them for refund?

If they are stuck with the product, then those of us who bought these new aren't lining Lucas' pocket any more than those who choose to buy used. We're lining Wal-Mart's pocket (or Best Buy or whatever).
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post #119 of 433
9/13/06 at 3:36pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Bryan just nailed it. Unless we are sending our money directly to GL, then another sale doesn't change anything. Right now you consider that the store is a company. They buy the product and sell it to someone. They get the customer's money and use it to buy something else.

The same goes for buying a used copy. The money that the original customer gets from you is spent buying something else. If you buy it from a 2nd hand store the same rules apply. The only way that you're going to get it without GL getting anything is to steal it!

Glenn
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post #120 of 433
9/13/06 at 4:09pm

Re: The ONE and ONLY *OFFICIAL* STAR WARS (Original Trilogy) DVD REVIEW THREAD!

Has anyone else watched the DVDs yet?
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