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M&K vs. SVS

post #1 of 36
9/9/06 at 8:23pm
Thread Starter 
I haven't had the opportunity to listen to any SVS subs yet, but I was curious to hear how they stack up to M&K subs.

I currently own and love the Miller & Kriesel MX-100. It has a tremendous output, unfortunetely I don't have a way to test the SPL's, but I am pleased with it and it continues to surprise me.

Are there any SVS subs that are comparible to the MX-100. Just to help the design is push-pull with two 12" inch woofers, one forward facing and one upward facing from the bottom into the cabinet. The replacement fuse size is 4 amps, 120 volt, so I assume the amp is quite powerfull.

If anyone has any insite on this your expertise on the subject would be greatly appreciated, Thank you.
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post #2 of 36
9/10/06 at 12:01am

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Seth

Don't get upset but M&K typically cannot match internet brands like SVS and Hsu for bang for the buck, or for sheer performance either.

M&K subs are fairly powerful from ~25Hz up, but below that don't have as much output as all but perhaps the new sealed SVS SB-12 Plus. Even the PB-10 will likely outgun the MX-100 from 25 on down. Exceeding the MX-100 across the board means going with the PB-12 NSD and larger.

Check this thread and click on the list:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...light=nousaine

There is no test of the MX-100, but there are test results for the MX-105 and MX-125 MKII ($1200). As you will see, the SVS 20-39 CS outdid both of them and handily outdid the MX-105.

Any of the following SVS will likely outdo the MX-100:

At $600, PB-12NSD, PC 20-39PCi. Or to get virtually an entire extra octace, from 12Hz to 25 Hz, the SVS 16-46 Plus @ $875 has 525 watts, the new 12.3 driver, triple ports, and will give you that entire octave from 12 Hz-25 Hz where your MX-100 is pretty much a ghost.

Since you say that your M&K has tremendous output, overall volume may not be an issue. But, you are certainly missing something in the lowest octave.
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post #3 of 36
9/10/06 at 10:30am

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur S
Seth


Since you say that your M&K has tremendous output, overall volume may not be an issue. But, you are certainly missing something in the lowest octave.


I have an SVS pb12+2. where is the low material to take advantage of the extension? seems 99.9% of bass is 25hz and above. i had my sub a couple weeks now and been trying to get it broke in and my $s worth. watch 2 hours of a movie for a few minutes of good bass
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post #4 of 36
9/10/06 at 10:38am
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

One thing you should be aware of is the M&K model numbers, they aren't sequential. If the model number is higher it is usually a lower model, but not always. The difference between the MX-100 and the MX-105 is a mile, the MX-100 has much more power than the MX-105 for instance.

The M&K MX-125 MKII is more similar to my subwoofer, minus 10 pounds, it weighs 69 pounds and mine weighs close to 80.

If my memory serves me well true sub-bass is the bass that we can't hear, but rather feel, respectively. There are many moments were I can not hear any bass, but can feel it and on a grand level. My room feels it as well because I can heard resonance from closet doors and such. Being that I am still fairly young my hearing should be useful to at least 20hz maybe lower.

I guess I need some equipment to test it out. One thing that may affect the sub's usable output is the room itself it isn't very large.

I would also like to add that I only paid $350 for my M&K, I'm not sure the value gets any better than that.
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post #5 of 36
9/10/06 at 10:41am
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

There is something else, but of course we still want those lower Hertz.

What about the quickness and attack of SVS? Are they more boomy or accurate.
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post #6 of 36
9/10/06 at 2:29pm

Re: M&K vs. SVS

I can't find any details about the MX-100, so hard to say.

But generally speaking, I don't really look to M&K for high performance bass.
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post #7 of 36
9/10/06 at 3:03pm

Re: M&K vs. SVS

SVS subwoofers are extremely accurate. That's one of their best qualities, no boomy bass, clean accurate powerful bass is what you get.

Get one of the SVS Plus powered cylinder subwoofers and you'll hear/feel deep bass that you didn't even know was in some movies, especially if you get the 16-46.
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post #8 of 36
9/10/06 at 8:15pm
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Well to buy now there is no need, but in the future when I don't have any neighbors SVS will be on my list of subs to consider.

Last question, are these strictly internet order or are there places that carry them and have them in a showroom?
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post #9 of 36
9/10/06 at 9:18pm

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Seth=L,

Are you in the US? If so, then there are no showrooms, other than people willing to demo their SVS subs. Speaking of...

Tim,

You PMd me about the get together at my place in October. Are you going to make it?

-Robb
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post #10 of 36
9/10/06 at 9:24pm
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

They have showrooms in other countries outside the U.S.?
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post #11 of 36
9/11/06 at 2:06am

Re: M&K vs. SVS

No showrooms anywhere. You got a fine value at $350. Still doesn't get the 12Hz-25Hz octave like a 16-46PC Plus will. Age affects high frequency hearing, not low frequency hearing. I can assure you that you are getting next to nothing from 12Hz-18Hz. Your next to last post is confusing. You play loud enough to rattle doors but you can't get something that will cover the bottom octave because of the neighbors?
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post #12 of 36
9/11/06 at 4:17am

Re: M&K vs. SVS

M&K will have higher sound quality bass. Transient speed in the 35-80hz is great in M&K subs. They will not win a dB or depth contest against SVS.
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post #13 of 36
9/11/06 at 6:14am

Re: M&K vs. SVS

"I can assure you that you are getting next to nothing from 12Hz-18Hz. "

Arthur S,

I run an old M&K mx 2000 sub.Testing with a sine wave cd,I not only get output in the 15 to18 hz range ,but output that has authority.

Of course the MX-2000 is no longer made by M&K.One thing I find odd about M&K subs.It seems their older subs,such as the MX-2000,and I believe Seth's 100,dig much deeper then M&K's newer offerings.

Anyone in my part of the world who'd like a demo is welcome to send me a PM.
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post #14 of 36
9/11/06 at 8:31am
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur S
No showrooms anywhere. You got a fine value at $350. Still doesn't get the 12Hz-25Hz octave like a 16-46PC Plus will. Age affects high frequency hearing, not low frequency hearing. I can assure you that you are getting next to nothing from 12Hz-18Hz. Your next to last post is confusing. You play loud enough to rattle doors but you can't get something that will cover the bottom octave because of the neighbors?
What I meant to say was it pressurizes my room. For instance the opening scene to Lord of the Rings there are a ton a sub 20 Hz frequencies in there. There are moments when I can hear walls and other things resonating and feel rumbles and bass, but I can't hear the actual bass. As for my neighbors, if they are home they can hear it, but that doesn't really carry any relovance. I try to only be noisy when they aren't home.
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post #15 of 36
9/11/06 at 8:49am
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quinn
M&K will have higher sound quality bass.

That is good because I like high quality bass. I am not really trying to get extremly low extention or spl's, though they are nice. I like the M&K for music much more than for instance my Sunfire Truesub. I came across a post that claimed that the M&K-100 had sloppy bass next to the Truesub. They got something mixed up I think because the Truesub has sloppy bass, bottoms out on stuff frequently. And it can't even come close on overall output, and of course I realize it is much smaller, it just annoy me that someone whould thing it offers higher quality bass over an M&K-100.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alon M
I run an old M&K mx 2000 sub.Testing with a sine wave cd,I not only get output in the 15 to18 hz range ,but output that has authority.

Of course the MX-2000 is no longer made by M&K.One thing I find odd about M&K subs.It seems their older subs,such as the MX-2000,and I believe Seth's 100,dig much deeper then M&K's newer offerings.

That is awesome and weird at the same time. Do you know if that is a cabinet, amp, or woofer thing? I was considering buying some new super fast woofers to replace my own, but if these new woofer limit extension then I would look for new/old stock of the Discover Deep Bass drivers. Also is your 2000 packed with insulation, because mine is so packed that if you take it out you will have to spend some time trying to fit it all back in.
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post #16 of 36
9/11/06 at 9:28am

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Not to sure on your sub Seth.I do know that two of the reasons M&K has moved to newer design subs was because,one ,the amp is huge,and expensive in our old models ,and two,the boxes(mine weighing in at 125 pds) are large and heavy(24"x24"x18").

I was told by M&K that the newer drivers(super fast bass) wouldnt improve performance,but because mine were dead,M&K replaced them with the newer drivers.

Lastly ,yes,mine is stuffed with stuffing
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post #17 of 36
9/11/06 at 9:40am
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Well even M&K cuts corners now, just sad. And now they are pulling Marketing Trickery on us too. I am quite disturbed. Can't just one company remain completely honest. And I would guess that the lower extension would be due to the cab, and the amp combonation, as they are both quite hefty.
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post #18 of 36
9/11/06 at 9:45am

Re: M&K vs. SVS

It's always fun to debate any of the Alans on the forum .

So Alan, you are saying that Seths MX-100 is comparable to your MX-2000? Might as well say it is comparable to the MX-5000, which I have a full review of. Do you seriously doubt that the SVS 16-46 Plus will not have more output from 12-18 Hz than the MX-100? What kind of output does your MX-2000 have in the 10Hz-14 Hz range?

Chris

Transient speed is a highly complex and debatable subject. Ed Mullen has looked into the matter in some detail, and last I knew he was running dual SVS PB-12 Ultra/2's.

Woe be it for me to point out the potential advantages of one sub over what someone already owns and has allegance to. Pride of ownership is a given.
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post #19 of 36
9/11/06 at 9:49am
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

In my case I just want to know. Because I have never heard an SVS, I have to base any knowledge on them off you guys. I am trying to be as unbiased as possible here. If fights do sprout because of difference of opinion here I will likely request to have this thread closed or removed, though I don't think this will happen, just letting you guys know.
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post #20 of 36
9/11/06 at 10:04am

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Seth

Rest easy. Differences of opinion are fine. Debate is fine. I understand that you have not heard an SVS. Certain things are simply not debatable. SVS 16-46 PC Plus in 12Hz tune simply digs deeper than all but a couple of reasonably priced commercial subs. Sound quality will be debated till the end of time.

IMHO, this thread has been quite civil. The Moderators will jump in if they perceive that thing have gotten uncivilized
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post #21 of 36
9/11/06 at 10:36am
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying that there is a problem with the debate, unless it turns ugly, but I don't think it will.

And yes, sound quality is always a debate. But, can anyone say Sunfire sounds better than M&K without a nervous twitch. People that aren't audiophiles say that the M&K sounds better but they aren't sure why.
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post #22 of 36
9/11/06 at 10:54am

Re: M&K vs. SVS

M&K definitely better than sunfire, sunfire makes terrible subs. But they aren't designed to be great subs but rather to be small primarily.

Seth, where are you located, maybe there are SVS users near you?
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post #23 of 36
9/11/06 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

I live in Fort Wayne, IN which is just south of Michigan and west to Ohio.

I don't think that Sunfire is the worst, and I got a good deal on mine, only $450. It of course didn't beat the M&K for $350. It is nice for a bedroom or den.
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post #24 of 36
9/11/06 at 12:25pm

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Seth

You got a killer deal on the MX100. Based on everything you have said, if I were you, I would be looking elsewhere in your system for somewhere to upgrade

What display are you using?
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post #25 of 36
9/11/06 at 12:48pm
Thread Starter 

Re: M&K vs. SVS

My current system:

JVC AV-27F703 27" Flat CRT Television
Toshiba SD-9000 DVD player
Rotel RSP-960AX Pre/Pro
Carver AV-505 5 channel amp
Pioneer Elite PD-65 CD player
PSB Century 600i front speakers
Infinity Interlude 10's surrounds (But currently in my bedroom)
M&K MX-100
Sunfire True Subwoofer MKI (planning to sell)
Audio Quest, StraightWire, Acoustic Research, and Monster interconnect (depending on devices connected, For example PD-65 to Pre is straightwire and pre to amp is also straightwire. Video is Monster

I know the TV is in need of an upgrade, but I want to wait and see what happens with HDMI, DVI, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray. The same goes for a new Processor. Another thing I would like to upgrade is my front speakers.
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post #26 of 36
9/11/06 at 1:14pm

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Seth

With all due respect, your display is easily in need of upgrading. One of the forum sponsors, TVA, has the 50 inch Panasonic PX60U plasma for a great price. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the price.

Man, oh man, going from your 27 inch 4:3 CRT to a 50 inch 16:9, top rated plasma will blow away any other changes to your system.

Upgrading the weakest link in your system is the way to go. You can wait for the dust to settle till the cows come home
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post #27 of 36
9/11/06 at 1:27pm

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Quote:
Another thing I would like to upgrade is my front speakers
Buy these so we can get a good first-hand review.

Images of JBL's new Everest DD66000 plus discussion.
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post #28 of 36
9/11/06 at 1:32pm

Re: M&K vs. SVS

With a 1:78 wide screen DVD, your 27 gives you 262 square inches of screen area. With a 50 inch 16:9, you have 1068 inches of screen area.
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post #29 of 36
9/11/06 at 4:05pm

Re: M&K vs. SVS

"It's always fun to debate any of the Alans on the forum ."

Lol,thanks Arthur.You made me laugh in the middle of the day

"So Alan, you are saying that Seths MX-100 is comparable to your MX-2000? Might as well say it is comparable to the MX-5000, which I have a full review of. Do you seriously doubt that the SVS 16-46 Plus will not have more output from 12-18 Hz than the MX-100? What kind of output does your MX-2000 have in the 10Hz-14 Hz range?"

Nope ,I never said any of the above.Seth's mx-100 was next in line below my mx-2000.Since both models have long been out of M&K's line up,theres no way to compare other then listening or RTI software.

As to the SVS's output,I have no doubt in my mind that the SVS rocks in the 12 to 18hz.The SVS will have more output in the 12 to 18 hz range then the 100.I'd be an idiot to debate that with you

As for my MX-2000,after I return from my business trip(returning oct 1),A buddy with Room eq wiz will be coming over to test the mx for db output in all freq ranges.I do have a strong hunch that the 15 to 20 hz response will surprise both of us
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post #30 of 36
9/11/06 at 5:22pm

Re: M&K vs. SVS

Alan

I looked up the MX2000 in the discontinued subs section of the M&K site. That sub draws 6 amps! Must have been just a small step down from the MX-5000. Though with the odd numbering system M&K used, perhaps the MX-2000 was a higher model than the MX-5000. The MX-5000 was rated as having a 400 watt amp. Pretty clear yours is a fine sub. FWIW, in the Don Keele review of the MX-5000, he was able to achieve a peak output of 106 db (corrected for room gain) at 20Hz. The FR falls off below 40 Hz. You may still be able to see the MX-5000 review at the M&K site. The MX-5000 still is a very heavy hitter almost 15 years down the line.

I'm sure your MX-2000 will measure very, very well in-room. FWIW, according to D.B. Keele, noted speaker tester and former employee of JBL, the following corrections for room gain apply: @20Hz = 8db; @50Hz = 4.5 db; @100Hz = 2db. Again, as noted above, Keele measured 106db @20Hz after applying the 8db room correction reduction for the MX-5000.

Looking forward to your testing results after your trip
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