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'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge - Page 4

post #91 of 157
10/2/06 at 12:47pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Nicholas,
it doesn't matter WHY I think that it's my favorite ep so far of season one, it just is. I really didn't mean to somehow insult Angel (that's what I took from your post anyway) by saying what I said, I just ALWAYS thought that both Buffy and Angel were at their strongest character-wise when they were together.

When they're together there is a passion that they share that just isn't present when they're apart and this ep is the epitome of that passion, it's their tragic romance amped up to the max and that's why I loved this ep.

Every ep of Angel has been great thus far, just because this one is my favorite so far doesn't negate the rest of the eps in the least. You simply are reading too much into it, that's all.

I'm loving Buffy and Angel equally so far.
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post #92 of 157
10/2/06 at 12:48pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendy_L
IMO, Buffy and Angel both totally ROCK in their own way. LONG LIVE "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" AND "Angel"!!!

There ya go!
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post #93 of 157
10/2/06 at 1:45pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Rm W/A Vu1/2
This episode has some funny moments and the reveal of what happened is surprising. My problem with the episode lies with Cordelia's change near the end of the episode which is what the episode ultimately hinges on and for me it just didn't ring true. I think it has more to do with what precedes it - given all she has seen and been through, her reaction to the ghost and nearly caving in doesn't feel right

Sense and Sensitivity
Some of my favourite Angel episodes were the comedy ones, and this is one of the early ones. "I had to threaten him with physical violence"

The Bachelor Party
I think Doyle would have been a really good character if he had stayed on in the series and here we get to find out a little more about his character. Even in the space of only seven episodes I think Glenn Quinn really made something with this character, and it is a shame what happened to the actor.
Nice little twist to lead into Buffy

Pangs1/2
Although Angel is in the episode, there isn't much of a focus on him and given what happened at the end of the last Angel episode, the threat to Buffy is a bit of an anticlimax. Still enjoyable and I really enjoyed how blunt Spike was at this stage of the series.

I Will Remember You
A great "What If ?" episode which you knew was going to end tragically, but it is still worth it. I like the fact they left Angel with the memory of what happened so it doesn't feel like a total "reset" episode. I also like the way it contrasts with the Graduation Day Part II - here it's Buffy who decides to walk away and leave Angel.
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post #94 of 157
10/2/06 at 4:05pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
Nicholas,
it doesn't matter WHY I think that it's my favorite ep so far of season one, it just is. I really didn't mean to somehow insult Angel (that's what I took from your post anyway)

Every ep of Angel has been great thus far, just because this one is my favorite so far doesn't negate the rest of the eps in the least. You simply are reading too much into it, that's all.

What I said was not based on what you said, but the more-or-less fact that this episode is considered by (again, more or less) all Buffy / Angel fans to be the best episode of Angel ever made. Just like the 'Deep Space Nine' tribble episode - it's the all-time favorite because it connects to the original show. I never thought you or anyone else was insulting anything.

I do however find it a bit of a letdown - for both Angel and DS9 - that an independent, totally unrelated episode of either show, would never be as good or as beloved as what was in both cases a gimmick episode.
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post #95 of 157
10/2/06 at 4:15pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

It didn't strike me as a gimmick episode, IMO Joss took this opprotunity to give us Angel and Buffy fans what we've wanted to see for a long time...Buffy and Angel together and truly happy, albeit for a very brief period of time.

This episode was just pure emotion, Angel's happiness at the ability to eat food again, to walk into the sun without burning up, to gaze upon the image of his own reflection which is something he hasn't seen in 200 years and to hold and have sex with the one person he's always longed for.

It's a very poignant ep IMO because Angel will be the only one of the two of them that will remember what transpired in that short few hours that they were fortunate enough to share together and he got to experience what it was like to be truly alive once again.
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post #96 of 157
10/2/06 at 9:44pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Slowly catching up, and only watching Buffy S4. Have now seen ``Beer Bad,'' which was a silly episode, but I didn't hate it nearly as much as some here did. I guess I'd give it out of five...while I really enjoyed ``Wild at Heart''...and would give that . Going to watch the rest of disc 2 later today after I finish up Lost Season 2 in preparation for Wednesday's season 3 premiere. Enjoy.
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post #97 of 157
10/4/06 at 11:14am

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Something Blue:

This is a pretty funny episode. Willow can be a pain sometimes. LOL

I really get a kick out of the stuff poor Giles was saying while blind. I like his dry humor.

Hush:

This is one of my favorite episodes of the entire series. The creepy Gentlemen, and the way the story had to be told without dialog, made this episode really effective.

This is also the episode that Tara makes her first appearance. Which is a good thing. Although I loved Oz, I am glad Willow finds someone to get her out of her funk. She was getting tiresome.

Doomed:

It was good to see this episode open exactly as the last one ended.

Can someone please explain to me why Willow went into a strange room in a strange dorm and laid on the bed? She should have just gone back to her room. This made no sense to me.

Spike in Xander’s cloths is a hoot.
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post #98 of 157
10/4/06 at 2:17pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Something Blue1/2
Willow is a bit annoying in this episode though, having seen the whole series, it is a great pointer as to what is in store for her. However, the rest of the episode is funny and it is worth if for this great deadpan moment from Giles

XANDER : How ?...What?....How?
GILES : Three excellent questions.

I couldn't stop laughing at that

Hush
Personally I think this is the best "Buffy" episode of the series. I say that because "The Body" and "Once More With Feeling," 2 others I rate highly, both have elements to them which are not really typical of the show. This however, has the feel of a typical Buffy episode - its funny, creepy, and, as usual with the Whedon-directed episodes seems to centre on a defining moment in the season. I forgot this was the episode they introduced Tara as well.
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post #99 of 157
10/7/06 at 3:44pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Sort of off topic but I thought you might get a kick out of knowing that I just finished showing season 1 to my parents. They are both nearly 70 and I got them hooked on Buffy. LOL

We start season 2 tonight.

I am no longer the oldest Buffy fan on the planet. I just wonder what they are going to think about the changes to Willow in season 4.
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post #100 of 157
10/7/06 at 5:22pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Massey
Hush
Personally I think this is the best "Buffy" episode of the series. I say that because "The Body" and "Once More With Feeling," 2 others I rate highly, both have elements to them which are not really typical of the show. This however, has the feel of a typical Buffy episode - its funny, creepy, and, as usual with the Whedon-directed episodes seems to centre on a defining moment in the season. I forgot this was the episode they introduced Tara as well.

My love for Hush (as well as They Body and Once More With Feeling) knows no bounds but I also think all three (along with Restless) were the catalysts for some of the issues the later seasons had. Namely that Whedon devoted so much time and energy into a single episode directorial tour de force on a high concept (the silent episode, the musical, the dream sequence) that the rest of the season suffered from neglect. It feels like a lot of his Season 4-7 directorial work were sort of outside of the main arc of the season, with the Season 5 and 7 finales excepted obviously.
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post #101 of 157
10/7/06 at 5:54pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S
Sort of off topic but I thought you might get a kick out of knowing that I just finished showing season 1 to my parents. They are both nearly 70 and I got them hooked on Buffy. LOL

We start season 2 tonight.

I am no longer the oldest Buffy fan on the planet. I just wonder what they are going to think about the changes to Willow in season 4.

Wow, congrats, it's always nice to get new people of ALL ages onboard! Keep us posted on what they think as you go along.

Something Blue

I love this episode, the whole situation with Spike and Buffy is both nausiating and hilarious all at once lol. My favorite scene though isn't even a scene, really, it's a single shot, it's when Amy the rat becomes Amy again...for about 2 seconds lol.
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post #102 of 157
10/9/06 at 6:03am
Thread Starter 

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S
Sort of off topic but I thought you might get a kick out of knowing that I just finished showing season 1 to my parents. They are both nearly 70 and I got them hooked on Buffy. LOL

That's a hoot! Good job, Scott. I try to recruit people to watch this show whenever I can too. Eventually I will get my mom and her boyfriend on board as well.

Ok, so, it's a new week and time for new episodes. I got caught up with the last three episodes over the weekend and I liked them all. Especially Something Blue, the scenes between Spike and Buffy were just hilarious. And the scene with Amy was classic too. And that's all I have to say because I'm too sleepy to think of more.

This week we are watching:

A1x09: Hero
A1x10: Parting Gifts
A1x11: Somnamulist

And for those of you who like to watch ahead...

WEEK OF 10/16/06
B4x12: A New Man
A1x12: Expecting
A1x13: She
B4x13: The I in Team (4x13 and 4x14 take place back to back)
B4x14: Goodbye Iowa
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post #103 of 157
10/9/06 at 11:05am

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Ah Hero...the episode where if I say anything more I'll be kicked out of this thread for ruining it for first timers but all I will say is at the time it originally aired I NEVER saw it coming...and to this day it still bothers me.
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post #104 of 157
10/9/06 at 2:52pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Looks like I've caught up and passed you people in terms of watching Buffy Season 4, since I'm already on Disc 4 episode ``This Year's Girl,'' which is only explained by the fact that I'm only watching Buffy, not Angel. Hope you're enjoying those episodes.
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post #105 of 157
10/9/06 at 3:08pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

I am renting the Angel discs via Netflix and am a bit confused. According to netflix the episode Expecting is on disc 3. When I look at the disc menu, it isn't listed. Is that episode on disc 4?
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post #106 of 157
10/9/06 at 6:16pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

It's like this:

Disc 3
-HERO
-PARTING GIFTS
-SOMNAMUBULIST

Bonus Features:
-ANGEL season 1 Overview
-Cast Biographies
-Stills Gallery

Disc 4
-EXPECTING
-SHE (watch the end credits!!!)
-I'VE GOT YOU UNDER MY SKIN
-THE PRODIGAL

Disc 5
-THE RING
-ETERNITY
-FIVE BY FIVE (with script)
-SANCTUARY (with script)

Disc 6
-WAR ZONE
-BLIND DATE
-TO SHANSHU IN L.A.

Bonus Features
-Introducing Angel
-I'm Cordelia
-The Demons
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post #107 of 157
10/9/06 at 10:36pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

I'm late to the I Will Remember You conversation, but does anyone else think this would've been a perfect series finale instead of standalone episode? Imagine if the events in the Angel finale (not getting into it) play out and then Angel and Buffy somehow wind up together again (maybe she heard about something and shows up, who knows, not saying anything about the Angel finale to those who are virgins) and this happened, would this not be the perfect way to not only send Angel off, but the entire Joss-verse? Take out the last ten minutes and make Buffy and Angel together happy, human, forever, and you wouldn't see people hoping SMG comes back and does a Buffy movie or Boreanaz coming back and doing an Angel movie, it would be the absolute sendoff for both characters and shows and don't think many people would be disappointed with the result. It would be like Friends fans who didn't like Ross and Rachel getting together again for the finale or Sex And The City fans who felt let down by Carrie and Mr. Big getting together once and for all at the end. It would've been happy and something both characters deserved and EARNED after all they went through.
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post #108 of 157
10/9/06 at 11:31pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Ew.
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post #109 of 157
10/9/06 at 11:47pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_B!
I'm late to the I Will Remember You conversation, but does anyone else think this would've been a perfect series finale instead of standalone episode? Imagine if the events in the Angel finale (not getting into it) play out and then Angel and Buffy somehow wind up together again (maybe she heard about something and shows up, who knows, not saying anything about the Angel finale to those who are virgins) and this happened, would this not be the perfect way to not only send Angel off, but the entire Joss-verse? Take out the last ten minutes and make Buffy and Angel together happy, human, forever, and you wouldn't see people hoping SMG comes back and does a Buffy movie or Boreanaz coming back and doing an Angel movie, it would be the absolute sendoff for both characters and shows and don't think many people would be disappointed with the result. It would be like Friends fans who didn't like Ross and Rachel getting together again for the finale or Sex And The City fans who felt let down by Carrie and Mr. Big getting together once and for all at the end. It would've been happy and something both characters deserved and EARNED after all they went through.

As great as I Will Remember You is I don't think that it's really suited to be a finale, it just isn't spectacular enough. Besides, Buffy and Angel were never meant to live happily ever after. No, those lovely moments between those two can't compete with Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the entire town of Sunnydale being swallowed up or however Angel ends.


There's another thing to consider with your theory, it would only wrap up Buffy and Angel's storylines, but what about Willow, Xander, Giles, Dawn, Doyle and Codelia?
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post #110 of 157
10/10/06 at 7:45am

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Thanks, Nicholas, for the info. The Netflix sleeve for Disc 3 is wrong. It says that Expecting is on this disc. Very confusing.

I just watched "Hero". I admit that when I first saw it, it was a complete surprise.

Does anyone know if this is why a certain someone shows up? Were they a replacement, or was it planned?

It is hard to ask a question without giving things away. LOL

How soon after we are scheduled to watch an episode can we speak spoiler free about it?
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post #111 of 157
10/10/06 at 8:14am

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

To this day, Scott, there has never been a definitive answer. Some say it was planned, some say it was suddden because of, and I will spoiler tag the rest:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
When Glenn Quinn died of a heroin overdose in December 2002, his drug use seemed to be a plausible answer to why Doyle was a short-lived character - problems with him on the set, etc. Other possible explanations was that Joss Whedon didn't like Quinn, not because of drugs, but his acting as Doyle. The drug issue crept in a bit in another way - some say he was a negative influence on David Boreanaz, who became quite close and spent time together even after Doyle was removed from the show. (after the show ended, Boreanaz was always eager to point out in interviews that Quinn was his favorite aspect of working on the show, because they had a great time together) The idea of Doyle dying quickly also fits with Whedon's trademark killing of main characters (Jesse in season 1, Jenny Calendar, Tara, Joyce Summers) and it makes sense because they brought an established character, Wesley, on to the show. So every theory is believeable, but only the cast and crew know, and have never given a concrete answer.

I just found out on wikipedia, that while entirely unconfirmed, Joss Whedon wanted to bring Doyle back as the season 4 VILLIAN, but Quinn died before any real discussion could come of it...which if true, destroys the drug use theory - why would they bring back a supposedly unstable and difficult actor, right?

The season 4 episode "Long Day's Journey" features a dedication to Quinn before the credits, which remains intact on the season 4 ANGEL DVD.

Quinn died on December 3 2002, which was three years after "Hero" aired on the WB, which was November 30, 1999. Fairly close dates.
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post #112 of 157
10/10/06 at 12:58pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin
Ew.

why "ew"? Maybe fans wouldn't be clamoring for reunion movies over the two show if they both got the absolute finale the fans wanted. Who needs a Friends reunion movie now that we have Ross and Rachel happy together? (sorry if that's a spoiler to some, but hell, I guess some are probably shocked that the war ended and they went home on M*A*S*H too). No many how many movies Gellar has coming up, to most people, a Buffy movie is the only one they'd care to see. Same with a lot of people who wish Bones would be cancelled so Boreanaz would have more time to devote to an Angel movie. If the two of them got together at the end, fans would probably no longer have any demand for them to revisit shows that likely will never be revisited at this point considering the casts of both shows have moved onto other things.
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post #113 of 157
10/10/06 at 1:18pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_B!
No many how many movies Gellar has coming up, to most people, a Buffy movie is the only one they'd care to see. Same with a lot of people who wish Bones would be cancelled so Boreanaz would have more time to devote to an Angel movie.

Thank God i'm not one of those, I try never to pidgeonhole an actor or actress into one role, Sarah did her gig as Buffy and now that's over, I don't ever care to see a Buffy movie because i'm very satisfied with how it ended. The same goes for David, he did Angel, it was a great role and now it's over and he's doing other things.

Your hearts in the right place, Jay, but that one ep just wouldn't work as a finale for either show, too many loose ends would be neglected and never tied up.

In your scenario, a movie WOULD BE required and not the other way around.
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post #114 of 157
10/10/06 at 5:17pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_B!
why "ew"? Maybe fans wouldn't be clamoring for reunion movies over the two show if they both got the absolute finale the fans wanted.

Not all fans. And I know for a fact that I'm not alone in that sentiment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_B!
Who needs a Friends reunion movie now that we have Ross and Rachel happy together? (sorry if that's a spoiler to some, but hell, I guess some are probably shocked that the war ended and they went home on M*A*S*H too).

I have never watched an episode of Friends, and I never, ever, ever will. I can't comment on that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_B!
No many how many movies Gellar has coming up, to most people, a Buffy movie is the only one they'd care to see. Same with a lot of people who wish Bones would be cancelled so Boreanaz would have more time to devote to an Angel movie.

Not me. ANGEL ended PERFECTLY. The icing on that cake is that it was without that blonde slayer bitch. (And just to remind people, it's Buffy Summers I hate, not Buffy the series. I like Gellar herself just fine as well)
While I felt Buffy ended two years too late, it was still a fitting end to the series.

I love Bones, and am happy to see Boreanaz as a different character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_B!
If the two of them got together at the end, fans would probably no longer have any demand for them to revisit shows that likely will never be revisited at this point considering the casts of both shows have moved onto other things.

There's more to BUFFY and ANGEL than just Buffy and Angel. I liked everyone else on her show, and while I loved Angel (the character) I loved everyone else as well, and was glad that his series didn't revolve entirely around him.

That's why "Ew".

To add, I know how Buffy could have ended perfectly:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
They should have had Giles knocked out early in the final battle, as his being knocked out was almost a kind of running gag on the series (Cordy even mentioned how it happens often back in season 3, and didn't Anya do the same a few years later? )

then...

After the school bus escapes the collapse of the Hellmouth, and the question is asked, 'what are we going to do now, Buffy?' instead of ending with a close up of Buffy's face, we cut to the inside of the bus where Giles finally wakes up, asking 'Did I miss anything?"

Cut to black

Executive Producers
Joss Whedon
Marti Noxon


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post #115 of 157
10/14/06 at 7:47am

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

I am amazed at how much Wesley changed in Angel. From where he starts out in Season 1 (basically the same as he was in Buffy) to where he ends up is a long journey.

Cordilia Changes as well, but she was already started on that trip in the last season of Buffy.

I am glad that Wesley "grew a pair" during the show's run. He was a bit hard to watch in this first few episodes.
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post #116 of 157
10/14/06 at 1:55pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Doomed1/2
Tough to follow a show like Hush, but here Riley is at his most annoying. At least Spike is good to laugh at.

Hero
This would have been a 5 star episode. The way in which Doyle's arc progress through this episode is brilliant, especially with the same video being used to start and end the episode. However, it's they way in which the Scourge are portrayed that really lets this episode down - not in the sense that they are persecuting half-demons, but that the show seems to feel the need to keep reminding us that this is a Nazi metaphor. Ok we get it!!!

Parting Gifts
Wesley was really annoying in Buffy yet somehow on Angel, he is less annoying despite the fact that at this point it is exactly the same character. Perhaps it is because I know where his character is going and that by the end of the show, he became my favourite character.
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post #117 of 157
10/17/06 at 9:06am

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

A New Man:

I felt bad for Giles in the episode. Not because he was turned into a demon, but how he is feeling like an outsider. I am about his age, and I know how uncomfortable it must have been to be at the college party with the “kids”.

I really loved how Ethan came out of the dark to make his ominous statement in the crypt only to have Giles comes back in. LOL

I also got a real kick out of seeing Demon Giles chase Prof. Walsh.
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post #118 of 157
10/17/06 at 1:02pm

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S

I also got a real kick out of seeing Demon Giles chase Prof. Walsh.


I remember getting a kick out of Giles calling Walsh a 'fishwife'...After all these years I still don't know what that is, but I liked it
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post #119 of 157
10/18/06 at 7:02am
Thread Starter 

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Sorry about the delay this week. I was away on vacation.

I finally got all caught up with last week's episodes yesterday. I have a question about Hero. Does anyone know why
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Doyle left the show so early in the 1st season?

I've always been curious about that. I might of known at one time but I don't remember anymore.

This week we are watching:

B4x12: A New Man
A1x12: Expecting
A1x13: She
B4x13: The I in Team (4x13 and 4x14 take place back to back)
B4x14: Goodbye Iowa

And for those who like to watch ahead:

WEEK OF 10/23/06
A1x14: I’ve Got you under my Skin
A1x15: The Prodigal
B4x15: This Year’s Girl
B4x16: Who are you (on D5 but they really need to be watched back-to-back)
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post #120 of 157
10/18/06 at 8:15am

Re: 'BUFFY' & 'ANGEL' S4/S1 DVD Challenge

Wendy, I talked all about this.

Further up the page, post 111.

I spoiler-tagged it.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...&postcount=111
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