Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars? - Page 2

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

This is just another manifestation of the old here-and-now vs wait-and-see debate. Since neither format offers anywhere near what I require at this point there's nothing for me to judge yet except some pretty tentative early shots. Not that this is anything to do with this thread's subject, but then they all seem to get side-tracked in this way don't they...

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Broken promises?

I don't seem Sony promising consumers BD50 at launch.

Facts are by Christmas season this year:

6 BD players will be on the market.
BD50s will be in production and on store shelves.
VC-1 discs will be plentiful.
All studios except Universal will have BD discs on the shelf.
PlayStation 3 will have sold 1-2 million units.

Let us not forget BD is making money.

So, come Christmas do you really think that people will be muttering about "broken promises" and the like?

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

It sure is hard to get a consistent date from you (or anyone else). Just days ago, October "seemed right". Before that, it was August. Now it's Christmas....

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

I don't see any inconsistency in Peter's comments, If BD50s arrive in October, as he speculates, then they will indeed be "on store shelves by Christmas," as he also states.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Strictly speaking, he could say the same thing about Christmas 2007 or 2008. But if they "arrive" by October, then they should be on store shelves by October ("arrival" means nothing if people can't buy the discs). This is what I mean about all the ambiguity and inability to pin anything down. "Oh, I didn't mean by arrival that anyone could actually BUY anything". Well, that IS what I mean. When can we buy 50 gb discs in quantity?. PERIOD.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Of course I would not presume to speak for Peter. However, his "Christmas" post strikes me as completely reasonable. I would imagine he used Christmas instead of Halloween because, even if BD50s are on the shelves by Halloween, several of the other items he mentioned (6 BD players, "plentiful" VC-1 discs, and a million-selling PS3) will not be. I don't get the impression that Peter was trying to deceive anyone with that post. But perhaps I should allow Peter to speak for himself rather than speculate further on what he might be thinking.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Sigh. The HD DVD attackers want to play semantics.

BD50s in October. On the shelves in Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, ad nauseum.

I was saying by the end of the year all these things will have come to pass.
In October BD50s will be, but PS3s will not. So I used Christmas as an all encompassing thing. Basic English.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

A firm prediction. Good.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

I think it's unfair that some people have bought into one current format, be it HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, and have completely shut their minds off to the other.

I'm a proud HD-DVD owner, and yes I am disappointed with what Blu-Ray has had to offer so far. That's not to say the format can't improve and meet all the potential that many (myself included) touted pre-launch. I'm a big gamer, and I'll hopefully get a PS3 in the fall, and I'd be lying if I said I won't check out some BD discs. If I find enough discs are out there to warrant a purchase of a standalone player once the price becomes more reasonable, I'll buy one.

The fact is, HD-DVD is half the price right now, and if it were the same price as Blu-Ray, I'd be skipping both formats for the time being. As a tech nut, I want the best format to win out in the end, but it's going to be a while before we get a clear consensus on that. Just because I've jumped aboard the HD-DVD wagon now doesn't mean I'll find it the best in a year or so.

So empty rhetoric is pointless, but so too is declaring a winner after a couple of months.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Good summary Brett.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Studio's certainly play a big role in regards to the format wars, but it's the manufacturers of hardware that is causing and fueling the war. IMHO Sony saw a format that could revolutionize the DVD world, costly but could. Now we need to remember that BD has been out in Japan for a while now (2 years I believe). Two years ago Sony USA should have pushed BD then but instead they remained dormant and allowed HD-DVD to come into play. Cheaper to make, and now a product half the price. My point, if Sony had pushed BD at the same time or shortly after it's break through in Japan, this may not have been an issue. Please understand I'm not an expert as so many members are or claim to be, but Sony had the perfect opportunity when it released BD in Japan and mostly all the studios jumped on board at it's inception here in the US. Bad decisions made here has now caused this format war, and bad decisions will finish it.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

No, quite the opposite. They did everything correctly.

One: BD recorders were too expensive. The Japanese & US have different views on the values of electronics. Issuing a $2K recorder in Japan and issuing a $2K recorder in the US has very different results.
Two: propietarty formats. People would have viewed BD as yet another Sony format being pushed. Instead Sony lined up the support of nearly ever CE maker. The biggest being Panasonic (Matsushita).
Three: they didn't exactly "wait" for HD DVD. You need to remember at this point HD DVD was Toshiba/Warner's plan to push a red laser with MPEG4 encoding. No blue laser, no VC-1.
Four: expanding BD to include technologies from the other members of the BDA, enhancing disc structure, including VC-1, AVC, and allowing DHD + DTS MA to be optional codecs.
Five: Sony did approach Toshiba on many occasions to try to get them to join the BDA. No dice.

The only bad decisions were to launch BD before it was completely ready, using transfers that are no longer state of the art.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

January 2006 CES:
"By late summer, all facilities will be able to manufacture both 25GB and 50GB Blu-ray Discs. The initial lines will use a sheet-type process. The spin process will be implemented when second-generation lines are developed."

So,
as long as "all" facilities produce BD 50's by "late" summer which is NOW, and get them to market by Oct., they will indeed have met Sony's & Peter's promises.
However, they did break the promise on the protective coating being apart of the initial BD. Wonder if the second gen will have it?

Good thing nobody cares if the first releases get scratched to heck or not. ;-)

Peter,
FYI, summer ends this month. As summer is officially over in August.
(Time for Fall & Football!!!)
&
FYI, 25 does NOT "equal" 30.
However, if you wish to say;
45 "equals" 50
I will NOT argue with you!

PTHX,
I still think you have a chance.
At BD 50
&
winning!

Butt, Sony hasn't done much right, as you've posted before, with titles released with inferior mastering & codec!

Congrat's to all BD fans with GN&GL, LUCKily (ha, ha) a great looking disc!

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Um, no. We're talking the Japanese electronics industry. Sep 23, 2006 is the official start of fall. Q4 starts in October. We still have a month left.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Say what? Every indication is that the BD discs on the market are well protected. I'm not aware of any "promise" made to use Durabis II on every disc, just for a similar level of protective coating to be applied. Is there some indication that this degree of protection is not being implemented?

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

I was under the impression that Sony dropped the caddy & promised super protection. This was like, what, six months ago?
The BIG fuss I remember, was that Sony was having a problem with spin (had to go there) coating.

Edit:
Here's 'something' I found;
From www.durabis.com (http://www.durabis.com/en/con00100.htm):

DURABIS: Making Bare Blu-ray Discs a Reality

Because Blu-ray Disc media offers considerably higher density recording on a disc with same physical dimensions as a DVD, precise laser operation is especially critical. This makes it essential to protect the recording surface of Blu-ray Disc media against scratches and smudges.

To protect the disc surface, the Blu-ray Disc media that's currently marketed in Japan is encased in a protective cartridge. DURABIS recording surface technology is an essentially component in realizing bare, cartridge-free Blu-ray Disc media.

An original TDK technology, DURABIS is the result of TDK's unyielding conviction that irreplaceable data and content must be safeguarded. DURABIS is certain to continue facilitating the evolution of optical discs with unprecedented capacities.

Rob,
do you remember reading that?

When combined with 1.10;
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_cartridge
"No, the development of new low cost hard-coating technologies has made the cartridge obsolete. Blu-ray will instead rely on hard-coating for protection, which when applied will make the discs even more resistant to scratches and fingerprints than today's DVDs, while still preserving the same look and feel. Blu-ray also adopts a new error correction system which is more robust and efficient than the one used for DVDs."
You can see that Sony did indeed promise to use a coating "which is more robust and efficient than the one used for DVD's".
Which, if I'm not mistaken, they are using, right?

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

a certain level of protection is part of the spec. if discs aren't able to conform to specifcations then they can't carry the relevant lable - in this case bd. i've not seen any comments that the blu-rays currently on the market are anything less than robust. of course it's early in the game to judge this, but you seemed to have new information so i was wondering what that was. the caddy thing is old hat. spin coat or film coat, the only thing that maters is if it works practically and economically. so far the practical aspect appears to be holding up, while the economic angle is a closed book to us, though there's certainly no end of inuendo in that direction.

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Well stated, Rob.
Just it does look like they fell short, of their mission statement.
Looks like they may still "catchup", however!

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Back to the original question: Mmmm, no I don't. Not particularly.

But if the format "war" lasts for another 6 or 7 months, then I will blame any studio releasing on one of the formats exclusively (or with too much a time gap).

(Although there are a few signs that the European Committe wil help preventing that in my part of the world.)


Cees

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

Blame the studios? Who else WOULD you blame?

Re: Does anyone blame the studios for the format wars?

If all the studios would have lined up behind one format this format war might have not have happened. But I do not blame the studios for this war. If Tohsiba and Sony would have actually gotten together and settled there differences and made an agreement. We would not have a format war and the studios would not be torn between two formats just like the average consumer is. And just like some consumers there are a studio or two that are waiting to see how this format war pans out before comitting to a format.

And unlike the past VHS vs Beta war where Beta was just superior. Today we have two very good quality formats with one of the biggest differences is storage space. And while Blu-ray may technically be the better format. Just like in the past we can not assume that the better format will win. During the last big format war the better format did not win!

Past Format Wars:
VHS vs Beta : Better format lost
SACD vs DVD-A : Both lost
HD-DVD vs Blu-ray : ????