Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat? - Page 5  

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

I see a "so what if early BR releases are mediocre/shoddy" attitude in your post. This is what annoys many of us. Instead of "don't give us these half-assed efforts, do it RIGHT, dammit!", the attitude of people like you and Peter seems to be "I have faith, I BELIEVE in BR, mere facts won't dissuade me". Why DIDN'T these people bother to use better masters, Rob? Why SHOULDN'T people be pissed that they seemingly didn't give a rat's ass about quality, especially when trying to convince people to buy into a new format? Not everyone is a "I have faith no matter what" true believer type.

And you're wrong that the problem is just a matter of using poor masters. The encoding isn't so good, and is sometimes AWFUL. I quote from Joshua Zyber's DVDTalk review:

So your claim that the problem is just the use of "inferior masters" is shown to be false. It's the Blu-ray mastering that's shoddy as well. Now tell me, which attitude is more likely to prompt improvement: a "don't worry Blu-ray, I believe in you no matter what, I have faith that you really will do it right and overlook the shoddy work you've done so far", or a "damn it, Blu-ray, you have NOT delivered on your promises, it's NOT acceptable, and I'm favoring the competing format unless and until you get your act together and SHOW me a commitment to quality!"?

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

The same mastering argument was thrown up against House of Flying Daggers (or House of Flying Artifacts, as some wag retitled it) complaining of large numbers of compression artifacts. These artifacts were not visible in the screen caps taken directly from the disc by Brosnan on AVS. The conclusion is that either; the artifacts didn't exist; they are the result of the Samsung; or there's some flaw in set up with certain systems/stores. Most likely to me is the Samsung player having issues not yet readily apparent since it doesn't have widespread competition against which to compare.

That doesn't mean there aren't compression artifacts on the encode of Robocop, but it certainly means there don't appear to be any on HOFD which has come in for a similar type of speculation. Right now the thing to complain about is the initial mastering, which can be an expensive and labourious undertaking. This applies equally to Animal House as to Robocop, incidentally.

This is just more of the whole now-now-now vs wait-and-see. Some early BD releases aren't up to snuff. Others appear to be very very good. Looking back at my earliest DVDs the exact same thing is seen there. "People like you" yadda yadda yadda, "attitude in your post" etc etc etc... Chill, mate, this is only a bit of technology. It could well be said of course that HD DVD doesn't have any real development signposted or announced for the future in terms of CE or studios so this desire to only look at the now is perfectly understandable. Blu-ray doesn't have the same problem which is probably why you get so worked up about all this.

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

" This is just more of the whole now-now-now vs wait-and-see. Some early BD releases aren't up to snuff. Others appear to be very very good. Looking back at my earliest DVDs the exact same thing is seen there. "People like you" yadda yadda yadda, "attitude in your post" etc etc etc... Chill, mate, this is only a bit of technology. It could well be said of course that HD DVD doesn't have any real development signposted or announced for the future in terms of CE or studios so this desire to only look at the now is perfectly understandable. Blu-ray doesn't have the same problem which is probably why you get so worked up about all this."

Still peddling the same old offensive Sony Company Policy tosh, eh, Rob ? Don't you ever get tired ?

This may only be a 'piece of technology' but if they want Joe Public's (and my)dollar then I think it is perfectly acceptable to question the release of a technology which is patently NOT ready. MPEG2 ? If they cant get 25gb discs right , why are you so convinced 50gbs will fix it ? Or do you believe that dts is 3 times better than Dolby Digital because of extra bandwith regardless of any differences between codecs ?

Enough already ?

~M~

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

Until Blu-Ray players drop significantly in price, I won't be getting them. I was looking at their titles and yes, I would like to see some of them but at this point I will stick to my HD-DVD player. I do need a second player for my second setup and if Blu-Ray player was close to the $500 mark I would get one of them. Maybe the PS3 will be that, maybe not.

I do own HD-DVD player but I have no favourite in this war. I would like to see BR to fulfill the promise of more space (beyond the 50GB) but many times they (marketing people, any company) promise more than they can technologically deliver. I will wait and see what happens but I wouldn't get all excited and determine what's going to happen in this war on that alone as BR disc beyond dual layer might never happen.

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

The thread you refer to (showing a couple of screen captures) is hardly definitive proof that the disc doesn’t look soft or has no compression problems. The thread doesn’t have the consensus you imply:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6&page=1&pp=30

Here’s Joshua Zyber’s review of the disc, which depends on actual viewing, not screen caps:
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=22594

Any implication on your part that HOFD is really a fine looking BR disc, and it’s all the fault of the Samsung is false.

So what if it’s “laborious and expensive?”. HDDVD faces the same requirements. I’m hardly going to feel sorry for the “poor little Blu-ray companies" for having to do something “laborious and expensive”. If someone else can show quality, so should they (and a lot of people think they'd damn well BETTER).
Do you usually say “chill” when product quality isn’t what it should be? Or does that only apply to a BR True Believer?

This is why I get the sense that BR doesn’t think it needs to do better. They think the marketing and corporate clout means they’ll win without needing better quality. That bothers a lot of people. Too bad it doesn’t seem to bother you.

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

Hahahahah

Please read the thread title, then revel in the unintentional irony of your post. Laced with a little paranoia, just for kicks!

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

Disapointing. I was hoping you'd be able to carry on an adult discussion, without distorting my comments or putting words in my mouth. Neither of those statements are to be found in my post. Is this your usual tactic?

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

Are you reading these comments by HD DVD advocates, Cees? They're not exactly upholding your ideal of a calm and rational look at the competing formats, are they. Or as you put it "And it certainly irritates if other posters are addressed as being unreasonable, short-sighted, ignorant (to a degree), or such is implied in one's message." My personal favourite...


Feel the rage!

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

I think the implication is clear when you say:


Spoken like a corporate rep instead of a consumer.

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

Where does that reference overall picture quality. It quite clearly (and even more clearly in context) refers to artifacting, since that is a consequence of authoring - the subject of discussion.

Re: Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?

Your post begged the question of artifacting. You claim it's a given that there's "proof" it doesn't exist. The very thread you cite, plus the review I cited shows no such thing. So you attempt to draw a conclusion based on an unproven premise.