Why has either of the HD formats taken so much heat?  

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Translation: BR is currently inferior, and needs to do better.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

It's not so shocking when you consider that the only player out at the moment that plays Blu-ray discs costs exactly twice as much as its HD-DVD counterpart. In general, when you pay double the cost for one piece of equipment over another you expect the performance of the higher priced equipment to be (at the very least) marginally better than the less expensive device.

So far, that's not the case.

Ergo, Blu-ray "is taking heat".

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

So basically, wait a 6months to a year and pay three times as much for a player ($1500 for Pio Elite Blu-Ray vs. $500 for HD-A1) and then you *might* get video and audio quality equal to HD DVD? Doesn't sound like much of a "battle" there

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

I would have to agree with Chris here. I had a Samsung upconverting player that had a terrible look with HDMI and component video was comparable to a cheaper progressive players. It also had to many quirks: wouldn't play certain disks, would lag in video when DTS audio tracks were selected, wouldn't play DVD-audio disks correctly (it was a universal player), and it would sometimes restart during the middle of a movie. I think Samsung has too many hardware and firmware issues in general. Samsung's Blu Ray player probably isn't going to shape up to the Sonys and the Pioneer Elite. Its production run as it's model will more than likely not endure like so many DVD players they have introduced into the market. To the mass consumer eye HD-DVD is the obvious choice for price, availability, software, and less problems. It seems the problems they have had they have come up with some solutions through firmware upgrades to render these issues.

I do not believe that either format can make a landside victory for at least a year or more. DVD will more than likely maintain it's position for a while longer giving each format some time to catch up and improve their current situation.

Seth=L

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

The problem is, there may not be much of a battle left to fight if BluRay keeps fumbling like this... Planning an 11th-hour comeback is no good if they're getting hit hard enough to lose in the 10th.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

My lord. A *month* into it and people are already declaring a winner.

Unbelievable.

I guess HD DVD is the better investment if you only plan for the next couple months or so...

This is more or less what Blu-ray's got coming over the next few months:

September:
Panasonic
Pioneer
Disney releases

October:
Sony
Paramount releases
BD-50s
VC-1 discs

November:
PlayStation 3
Philips
20th Century Fox releases

What is the other side planning?

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Technically it's not a *month* into it as HD-DVD has been putting out movies since April, haven't they?

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

A month and a week since the Samsung player was launched, starting the "war" in retail.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Not as bad as those who declared Blu-Ray the winner before either product was actually released.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Can you show me some links to CONFIRM this information? I know I've seen speculative posts about it, but how about some solid confirmation?


Perhaps the continued release of better-than-Blu-ray quality releases (like the ones they've already been releasing for several months now) that are playable on machines that are half the cost of the lowest-cost Blu-ray player?

Vincent

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

The quality issue is debateable? Debateable by whom? Show me a review that actually says the difference between HD-DVD and Blu-ray is "debateable", please, and only noticeable is you "really look" for differences. Your point about the DNR problem on the Samsung conventietly leaves out the report from one website that was given a corrected Samsung to compare the original unit to, and noticed very subtle improvements that resulted in image quality that was still inferior to HD-DVD.

As for your comment re: a "modified laptop being sold at a loss", for one thing it hasn't been proven that the Toshiba players have been selling at a loss, and for another, even if they were, so what? Sony's going to be selling their PS3s at a HUGE loss per unit. As such, what exactly is your argument in that case? And if the Toshiba players are "modified laptops", then I guess I can call the PS3s "modified game players that are selling at a loss", since in terms of pricing they'll be the only so-called Blu-ray players (I say "so-called" since if a "modified lap-top" isn't really a player- as you have contended in some of your posts- then I guess a "game player" isn't really a true Blu-ray player either) that are comparable to the Toshibas, which, "modified laptops" that they may be, have been praised up the ying yang for their impressive build quality?

Again, what exactly is your point, Peter, in bringing up supposed "selling at a loss" when Sony will be doing the exact same thing, and "modified lap tops" when Sony is banking their entire format on a modified game player that they will be selling at a huge loss itself?

Vincent

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

The point, presumably, is that game consoles make back their losses though software sales. It's not clear where Toshiba (or any other manufacturer who might choose to create an HD DVD player at comparable price) will be making back their losses. Movie sales? Not really, the margins are far lower than games, and Tosh don't hold all that many profitable patents in the software to garnish them huge chunks of that meagre return. They do own the rights to certain titles in Japan, though that's a rather limited market and not with a widespread roster of movies either.

The issue of BD to HD DVD PQ comparison is the point of this thread in the first place. Despite the hype over the review leading things off you'll see that the reviewer is not saying there's any clear difference between the formats with these discs, if you read his follow-up comments. While another reviewer says he can't see any real differences at all (bar machro-blocking in the first 10seconds of Training Day).

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Well,

The biggest issue here is the extreme probability that Toshiba's already comprised HD-DVD's protection schemes.

By using a Laptop with a Linux kernel, they've essentially provided a fairly wide open back door for the Player and some or all of the encryption to be hacked out. The Linux kernel running on a traditional processor with traditional memory in a Laptop allows for savy hackers to trojan the thing to display critical info.

Without a method of changing encryption keys over the life of HD-DVD, it's very possible that Toshiba's first effort has literally made the entire format subject to the rampant piracy that it is in part meant to prevent.

This alone makes it an unattractive solution to a group of studios very concerned about security. If it's encryption can be hacked out because it's a laptop, the studios will continue to back BR regardless of video quality and/or end cost. They'll be more than happy to wait X amount of time for production costs to drop for the better security.

MPAA isn't at all happy about today's piracy. This alone could break HD-DVD's back regardless of cost, yields, quality, or anything else.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

The Samsung BD player also is running Linux FYI.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

You're correct Ryan, certain members decry BD's additional protection (calling it DRM) but its that very same protection that makes studios like Fox support it exclusively.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Who wants releases if the format is currently showing it's inferiority? It sounds and feels like hte player's fault for now though. I feel like you're not playing devil's advocate, yo'ure actually on the loser's side of the camp right now.

I don't know but Sony PS3 is not going to do that well for gamers at a price tag of $500-600? Geeze, I had enough trouble fetching $300 for the 360.

Remember, the XBOX360 has an HD-DVD addon coming - so to me, that's a wash.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Game margins are lower than DVDs, hence why some retailers refuse to carry them. Furthermore, game sales volume is also lower.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Only on the console themselves. The actual games have a higher markup than DVDs.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Things must have changed I guess. Do you run a retail business?

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

You're talking about retail margins, which apply after the manufacturers have taken their own slice of the pie.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

"Look to UMD to see how the studios like supporting a single machine format."

Umm...I think it was the consumer that killed the UMD, not the studios.

Plan on going down with the ship, do you PeterTHX? =o)

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Going down?

Let's see: more players from more companies coming...
BD50s
more & more studios announcing titles
VC-1 discs

all within the next couple of months...

I say again, what does the other side have to look foward to besides:

No new players, limited supplies and studio support & an XBOX 360 add-on that may not sell that well...

I wish I could post that photo of the Iraqi Press Minister who would then say "HD DVD is better! We're winning!"

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

and BDA has a "we make our own reality" philosophy. 6 of one...

I agree with you about the 360 add on, though. I expect that'll be a big flop.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

I'm buying a 360 add-on. Do you own a 360?

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

I'm getting two of those right now on HD DVD


I don't need a new player. Pretty happy with it. Don't have to blame it for lackluster PQ or anything


Remind me again, how many studios of those "commited" to BluRay have actually put out product for it?


Don't look now, but I see a two-ton boulder with "PS3" written on one side, and "irony" on the other about to land on you.


My tongue just fell off from biting it so hard.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

Toshiba apparently knows how to take care of business. Their movies look great. I think Blu-Ray just needs to do better transfers. The Chicken Little HD transfer looks awesome on Blu Ray. This is evidence they could do a lot better. They need those 50 gig discs and VC-1.

Seth=L

Re: Why has BD to take so much heat?

When was Chicken Little released on BR? A DEMO is not a release.

Re: Training Day: First HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray head-to-head movie comparison

That's the thing. Why AREN'T they putting their best foot forward? Just abandoning MPEG2 would have quieted most complainers, even without 50 GB discs. But no, they can't even do that, it seems.

Right up until the launch, I backed BluRay. I bought into the hype: 50 GB discs! Protective coating! Disney and Fox onboard! The PS3 as a cheap player! I argued in favor of BD for the longest time, both here and on AVS, and evern hyping up the upcoming format to my J6P friends and family.

But the reality? 50 GB discs remain a promise, the protective coating is not being used, Disney and Fox are sitting on their hands because they're not about to put out product compromised by MPEG2, and the HDMI PS3 is gonna cost $600 freaking dollars, which means it'll sell for closer to $1,000 in my country.

Screw that. Even if the BD group finally delivers, it'll take a lot to earn back my goodwill, and more yet to earn my cash.

Re: Why has BD to take so much heat?

BR supporters obviously assume that it’s a given that EVERY BR promise will materialize (BD50 the norm for releases, a flood of titles from most of the major studios done with loving attention to quality, players priced competitively). It’s like an article of faith with them (“it will all happen! You’ll see!”). I don’t understand such an attitude. Why this preemptive support based on promises? Why not say “yes, HDDVD is better now. IF BR shows itself to be better say, months from now, I’ll say it’s better THEN”? Why this unswerving devotion? Like Ricardo, a LOT of people WERE BR supporters. Now they say “if you want my support SHOW me instead of PROMISING me”.