Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1 - Page 2

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

Tom,

If you want to continue to use the analog channels, you cannot use Pete's solution. And I wonder if you need it in that case.
Note that his post was made before TrueHD was available on the Toshibas!

I myself use the analogs out on my HD-A1 as well (ever since the firmware upgrade that enabled TrueHD), and I don't experience any problem with the bass level.

People who did, often had "Dialog Enhancement" set to "On", and experienced a very audible improvement when they switched it off. In the thread I'm now refering to, a member even had to switch it on and then off again - possibly because he had it "On" when he upgraded the firmware.


Cees

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

Ok, all this LFE stuff is confusing. When setting up my A1, I didnt seem to have any problems - I think....

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

Tom,

What is the firmware level you are using? And did you indeed try to set the Dialog Enhancement on and then off again?

About your receiver: does it allow the sound level of the different channels to be adjusted independently? And what's also important: what exactly is the problem you are experiencing?


Cees

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

Cees:

I'm confused by this. My understanding is that Pete's solution adjusts the LFE output via the analog 5.1 outputs relative to the SPDIF/coax. What about Pete's solution precludes use of the analog outs (for Dolby TrueHD)?

God I'm looking forward to figuring all of this bass management stuff out when DVD-Audio is added to the mix with the BD10A.

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

I'm using FW version 2.3 and the enhancement is off. I actually set all the speakers to small@80hz and all levels at -12db(except the sub). I can change the levels for all speakers on all inputs independently at the receiver. When I have the sub @ 0db at the player, I have to jack the sub level to +3 at the receiver(with AVIA)to get the level correct. I use a Behringer feedback destroyer to equalize the sub and at that level(+3) it almost puts the BFD into clipping(normally I have it set to -10 for the BFDs sake)....


Seems like the bass is low.

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

I must admit that my answer was a bit cryptic. Of course you can still use Pete's "trick". Except that you cannot adjust your 5.1 analog levels relative to the same codec using SPDIF when you're playing TrueHD. (It could appear to be similar to the levels in a DD+ signal, though, but that's not certain).

Perhaps these sort of problems are over soon: we're all expecting a firmware upgrade for the A2 series enabling TrueHD (and DTS-HD MA) bitstreams over HDMI, hopefully one for the A1 series will be released too!


Tom,

In the thread I linked to above, James Carpenter says that he DID have the DE turned off, but had to switch it on first - and then off again to have the desired effect.
Did you try that too?

(Just using wild guesses at this point, of course. )


Cees

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

I tried switching DE on and then off without it adding any loudness. I just rechecked and I need at least +6db(subwoofer trim) at the receiver for the level to be correct with AVIA.

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

Tom,

Is that the SD DVD AVIA? Playing on your HD-A1?


Cees

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

Yes it would be.

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

Tom,

The reason I asked was, because it had to be played on the HD-A12, of course. But also, because there's a new Digital Video Essentials - HD DVD version available.

Because your weak bass is so in comparison with a calibration using another audio codec, you might want to try this new calibration disc - and it's especially for HD DVD!


Cees

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

Reviving an old thread:

I recently purchased a new Panny plasma and a Sony BDP-S300. When connecting the S300 to my Yamaha RX-V995 receiver's analog inputs (which are shared with a Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player) I have run into the bass management issue again but I'm thinking I may have a perfect solution and would like opinions before I try it.

Originally, the HD-A1 was diagnosed with a -10dB LFE issue via analog output. Internal settings in the HD-A1 could compensate for the difference in dB output (lowering all channels except the sub to -10db, effectively giving a +10dB boost to the LFE channel) and all was right with the world.

Now I have added a BDP-S300 player and have very very low LFE from it via analog inputs. This has me thinking that Yamaha has a problem with the .1 analog input being an additional 10dB lower than it should. The issue with the S300 is that individual speaker levels are not adjustable (and there is no sub on/off option). A poor move by Sony but I'm not concerned with that at the moment. When playing back a BD, I have to really crank the volume to get reference LFE and that puts the rest of the channels well into clipping so I cannot run like that. Using the analog inputs on the receiver bypasses the receiver's built-in speaker level adjustments so they are no help here.

Here's the idea which woke me up at 3:00 this morning.

I am using low level RCA outputs from my receiver to amp and a low level signal from the receiver's LFE output to my sub. The sub is a Paradigm Servo 15 v.1 which only has one low level input and no line level inputs. Between the receiver and Servo 15 is a Paradigm x-20 outboard crossover which has one set each of both low level and line level inputs and outputs. My amp is an Anthem MCA5 which has only low level and XLR inputs.

Here's my question and I see no reason why it can't work:

Suppose I disconnect the low level LFE output from my receiver and change the front speaker settings to large and set the sub option to off and LFE option to mains. This should force LFE throught the front L/R channels. My mains are Paradigm Monitor 9s so I would think they could handle the demands of the extra .1 information without too much trouble. Coming directly from the R/L low level outputs of the receiver, I insert a pair of Y-cables, with one line running from the R main to the low level R input on the amp and the other line from the Y-cable running to the R low level input on the x-20. I would do the same with the Left channel, then run a low level signal from the x-20's mono output to the sub. I can then use the x-20 to set a LFE crossover point of 80-120Hz.

I'm not really big on the idea having to set my mains to large, but this may provide a solution. Any thoughts?

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

Clinton,

(Anything I say here is based on having no knowledge about your individual gear.)

That said: wouldn't the LFE signal, even when integrated into the mains, still be too low?

Your solution will work for the lower bass frequencies of the mains, but it still depends totally on the level of the LFE signal when added to the mix. You still wouldn't be able to influence that level, would you?


Cees

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

Actually, ... you can adjust the speaker levels, I also have the RX-V995 @ my vacation home w/HD-A1 and I have adjusted the sub's output via the built-in controls!

The INFO is found in the RX-V995 manual ...


Phil

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

I realize the manual says settings can be adjusted when using the analog inputs but experimentation with mine has yielded different results. When I use analog inputs, regardless of how I adjust the settings for center, surrounds and sub, the volume of the center, surrounds and sub doesn't change. I tried this using my SPL meter when I first got it years ago and thought the manual was a typo. I tried it again two years ago when I got my HD-A1 and got the same results. That's why I was presuming the internal settings were being bypassed.

Little did I know I may have had a defective receiver for 10 years.

On the positive side, I've fixed my problem for the time being. I set my HD-A1 back up like I had in my first post to this thread and got it calibrated like it should be. I then found that the Sony S300 doesn't like my BFD program so I will have to set up another for the BD. For now, I bypass the BFD when I watch a Blu-Ray disc and turn it back on for HD-DVD.

Re: Solution for low bass on HD-A1 using analog 5.1

That's the million dollar question. Would the integrated LFE still be 10dB lower than it should from the HD-A1 (plus possibly an additional 10dB from the RX-V995)? As long as I'm not using the .1 LFE channel, the HD-A1 and RX-V995 should pass the full signal, then the x-20 can be used as both a crossover and individual volume control.

I may go ahead and pick up some y-cables and try it out this weekend.